Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jørgen Nielsen (footballer, born 1923)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to List of Denmark international footballers (1–24 caps). Redirect is the most reasonable outcome here, if there are more sources, the article can easily be brought back. Tone 09:55, 6 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Jørgen Nielsen (footballer, born 1923)

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Violates the general criteria of WP:NOTDATABASE due to being an article that replicates a database entry. In addition, it fails WP:GNG and WP:SPORTSCRIT.

Previously nominated in a group nomination which was closed as no consensus on procedural grounds. BilledMammal (talk) 05:18, 18 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. BilledMammal (talk) 05:18, 18 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Football and Denmark. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 07:49, 18 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 08:26, 18 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Here are articles about his stint at Dundee F.C.: https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/search/results/1900-01-01/1949-12-31?basicsearch=%22jørgen%20nielsen%22%20dundee&phrasesearch=jørgen%20nielsen&somesearch=dundee&exactsearch=false&retrievecountrycounts=false Robby.is.on (talk) 11:49, 18 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - Per @Robby.is.on:. That was just one search on one non-Danish newspaper archive, and there are 5 articles about him. In addition, WP:BEFORE has not ben done, as Jorgen Nielsen having been a top flight player and Denmark International during the 1940s-50s, this is about offline sources. Article needs improvement, not deletion. Thanks, Das osmnezz (talk) 18:20, 18 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per Robby. Giant Snowman 18:57, 18 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete The newspaper clippings are only passing mentions of transactions, and one of them just describes Nielsen as "tall and dark." This sort of coverage does not pass the WP:GNG bar. Kges1901 (talk) 23:46, 18 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Kges1901:, You do realize that what you can see from that page is only a tiny preview of each much longer article? Also, that was just one search on one non-Danish newspaper archive, and there are already 5 articles about him. Clearly WP:BEFORE was not done. Article needs improvement but definitely not deletion. Thanks, Das osmnezz (talk) 04:43, 19 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

When the article is under 500 words, I have found that the likelihood that there is enough coverage for an article is pretty low, and from what I can see of the articles they seem to fit the pattern of being relatively passing routine mentions. Because Jørgen Nielsen is a common name in Denmark, we can't be certain that newspaper articles are actually about him, and many of them are from outside of the time period that he was actively playing during. making it unlikely that they are actually about him. Using more restrictive searches in the newspaper database such as this significantly reduces the number of hits, which are mostly not from the right period. Even using booleans in newspaper database searches is not foolproof because they will still pick up on unconnected usages of words in unrelated articles. Kges1901 (talk) 12:17, 19 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Here's more from Danish newspapers: https://www2.statsbiblioteket.dk/mediestream/search/Jørgen%20Nielsen%20dundee Unfortunately, the article content is not accessible to me. Robby.is.on (talk) 00:00, 19 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to List of Denmark international footballers (1–24 caps), if no-one finds enough SIGCOV to keep. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 08:59, 19 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per Robby. Worst case, redirect per Struway2 if nothing else can found on him, per WP:ATD, WP:PRESERVE, WP:R#KEEP and WP:CHEAP. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 09:18, 19 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete The refs are woeful and it seems to be a case of counting quantity over measuring quality of sources. There is no coverage here. scope_creep^Talk 10:12, 20 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete I do not think the keep arguers have actually distinguished articles on this person from others, and I do not see clear arguments that any of these articles provide the in depth, significant coverage that is called for by GNG. Not every person who was named dropped in newspapers briefly because of their athletic activities is notable, and I see no presentation or argument that any of the name drops constitute anything more significant than that.John Pack Lambert (talk) 20:21, 20 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Amateur footballer with no significant coverage. Alternatively redirect to List of Denmark international footballers (1–24 caps) per Struway2. Bring back Daz Sampson (talk) 20:30, 25 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep The newspaper articles were found. Pre-internet player, WP:ATD, WP:PRESERVE we can always redirect later to preserve the article's history. Giant Snowman is often correct about these WP:SPORTSCRIT articles involving soccer. Lightburst (talk) 04:04, 26 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, pre-internet so we need to understand that sourcing is going to be different. >> Lil-unique1 (talk) — 23:25, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: The existence of search results does not contribute toward notability, and at least a couple of the "keep" !votes are meaningless word salads; however, nobody seems to have analyzed the Danish sources in detail either.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Vanamonde (Talk) 16:19, 29 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect as above, as while it isn't unreasonable to imagine offline sources do exist in Danish, we can't just assume they do and keep on that basis alone. The BNA search results don't assert notability, even from the little that can be retrieved from the free search preview and his time in the UK seemed very limited, so unlikely to much in British media. Redirecting seems the best compromise. Bungle ^{(talk • contribs)} 17:14, 29 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete or redirect, although the title is not a search term anyone would ever use... Anyway, there is NO presumption of notability or SIGCOV afforded to footballers. You cannot justify a presumption of SIGCOV based on someone having played football at a "high level" because that exact justification has been deprecated. Therefore, claims that sources exist in an inaccessible database where all we get is hits on a very common name must be rejected. Additionally, the lack of even a single cited SIGCOV source means this article fails the requirements for sportsperson articles and would need exceptionally compelling IAR arguments to be retained. JoelleJay (talk) 03:17, 31 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, WP:THEREMUSTBESOURCES is not a valid rationale for keeping an article, and no evidence has been provided that there is sufficient coverage to demonstrate notability. Devonian Wombat (talk) 11:15, 2 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.