Template talk:Seljuk Sultanate of Rum and Turkish beyliks

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I have renamed this template to conform with the title of lead article Seljuk Sultanate of Rûm. Aramgar (talk) 14:34, 18 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I have switched this template to use horizontal list formatting (see WP:HLIST), and made a few more changes for easier editing and better appearance. The structure is, I think, now much clearer and easier to edit. With so many changes, it is quite likely I've made on or two small slip-ups, so apologies for those.

This template is far too large, and needs to be split up. There is also a tendency (not unique to this navbox) to add material to navboxes that really belongs in article content – another opportunity to trim this template.

--NSH002 (talk) 11:29, 6 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Adding this comment much later but along the same lines. I discovered this template after discovering Template:Seljuk architecture (Anatolia), which already covers architectural monuments more succinctly. It would be unreasonable for two navboxes to exist with such overlap, and it's unlikely (and undesirable) that they will both appear at every relevant monument article. It seems more sensible to remove the massive, overly detailed sections on monuments here and simply replace it with a link to Seljuk architecture, the overview article. Other problems with the current format here: 1) there's an unreasonably large number of red links, many of which will almost certainly not be turned into real articles soon or ever, which goes against WP:EXISTING; and 2) many of the links are accompanied by unsourced information (like construction dates, chronological summaries) which cannot be verified in the format of a navbox (as mentioned by the editor above, this information belongs in articles; a navbox is for navigation only). My recommendation is that this template focus on linking other Seljuk historical topics instead, on which there are certainly many articles not included here at the moment (e.g. more historical events, cultural topics, perhaps streamline the Beylik links more, etc).

I'm going to have a look at this now or soon, and maybe try to implement some of this. Feel free to discuss disagreements/suggestions. R Prazeres (talk) 06:38, 20 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Updates:

• I've replaced the first (Seljuk) chronology section with a list of links instead, mainly to battles. Categories like Category:Battles involving the Sultanate of Rum may be useful to consult, though I'm not saying that every article in those categories necessarily needs to be here. Note that there is already a navbox for battles with the Byzantines at Template:Campaignbox Byzantine–Seljuk War. I've suggested a non-exhaustive selection of important battles to link in this edit, but I leave the final selection up to other editors.
• I've simply removed the other "chronology" and similar sections in the Beyliks. Again, these are basically content summaries, not lists of links to aid navigation. All of this is information that should be described and properly sourced in articles, which creates all kinds of potential problems. If there are important events with their own articles that can be linked, I'd suggest creating sections for those where applicable.
• Per my previous comment above, I've removed the architecture and historical monuments sections. Replaced with a link to main architecture article in a "culture" section instead, which could be expanded as other relevant articles are created in the future.
  • To add some substance to the culture section, I've added links to some notable writers/scholars. With a similar idea in mind, I've added a new section on other notable people (consorts of sultans, administrators, etc). These are not covered by any navbox to my knowledge, but they are generally found in Category:People from the Sultanate of Rum. Again the selection and organization here is provisional, I haven't even tried to order them (perhaps chronologically?), so feel free to revise.
• Even with these parts removed, there is a huge number of red links and unnecessary, repetitive details; e.g. lists of "important centers and extensions" which end up relinking many cities multiple times, and whose selections are essentially information that should be normally described and sourced in an article (the sources listed below the template here don't provide all that information to my knowledge). I'd recommend removing these too, but I'll leave that alone for now since at least they consist of actual blue links.

If editors disagree with one or more of these changes, they can revert as needed, but if so then I'd strongly encourage some serious and constructive feedback on how else to manage the content of the navbox. Apart from some very welcome clean-up from previous editors, I don't see any major attempt to reckon with the template's size and scope since 2007. Please remember that the focus of Wikipedia is its articles, and the navboxes are here to aid the articles, not the other way around. Please see WP:NAVBOX and the supplement WP:NAV for guidelines. R Prazeres (talk) 09:19, 20 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]