Talk:Q17442446

What's the difference between this item and Wikimedia page outside the main knowledge tree (Q17379835)? The descriptions seem almost the same. Bever (talk) 23:57, 6 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Actually that's my fault. Wikimedia page outside the main knowledge tree (Q17379835) was originally called "Wikimedia page", which is not the same thing as "internal stuff". There seemed to be issues with the item, so I created this one. But then I changed the English label/description of Q17379835 so that they now both sound the same. To articulate this a bit more. There seem to be structural issues that I did not have the courage to investigate further:

Wikimedia page outside the main knowledge tree (Q17379835) (originally called "MediaWiki page"), is a subclass of MediaWiki main namespace page (Q15633587), and it is used this way : Category:1813 (Q6932563) instance of Category page, so (by implication) Wikimedia page outside the main knowledge tree (Q17379835). This means that we describe the item, not by what it means, but by the type of sitelink it contains. This is a bit like saying "Universe (Q1): instance of Wikimedia article" because it contains a link to en:Universe.

I would propose to

merge both items

find a suitable label meaning "not a real world entity, just link collection/Wikimedia maintenance helper page".

completely remove reference to "Wikimedia page" from its superclass set.

Does that sound ok ?--Zolo (talk) 08:02, 7 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Zolo: Wikimedia is a real world entity, and so are the parts of the project :) Joke apart, I guess "Wikimedia project entity" could be fine ? TomT0m ^(talk) 12:26, 12 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@MisterSynergy: removed your claim. Entities are not Wikipages. Entities have an associated page and datas, but their pages are just a way amongst other to read and modify their datas. Reasonator or squid are others. author  TomT0m / talk page 14:07, 29 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

According to the entity history, it was a claim by @Infovarius from long time ago, not “mine”. I can’t tell right now whether this removal breaks something somewhere, since I remember that a couple of queries rely on this or a related structure to find all meta items (such as categories, templates, disambig pages, redirects, Wikinews articles, duplicates, whatever…). —MisterSynergy (talk) 15:42, 29 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

If such query is found, it should be fixed. Sorry for the misatribution. author  TomT0m / talk page 16:18, 29 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@TomT0m:, sorry but what superclass should it have? Many language labels has "site" or "page" inside so it can be a subclass of "wiki page". May be to exclude entities? or just to broaden your understanding and to refer entities along with their pages? --Infovarius (talk) 14:50, 30 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Infovarius: Maybe just « entity of a wikimedia project ». Why would we actually need them to be pages ? I think it may be beneficial to try to maintain a separation between the trees of the wikiverse entities and of the outside world entities anyway. This kind of statement helped to show items as something in the subclass tree of « websites » (or something like that, not sure the exact query I ran when I stumbled unexpectidly finded items as a result). We should be rigorous to avoid making the subclass tree really messy and hence way less useful and far bigger than it should be, and it can grow pretty fast with a few erroneous statements. Remember that making items a subclass of webpage makes them share all the properties of webpages, for example.

Per Wikidata:Glossary, « Entity is the content of a Wikidata page ». If « entity » is a page, this become « Entity is a web page that is the content of a Wikidata page » which is logically inconsistent. With such inconsistencies we will fast defeat the purpose of the « subclass » concept. author  TomT0m / talk page 15:24, 30 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Infovarius: Why exactly should there be a superclass for this actually ? This could act as a « root » for wikimedia internal entities represented on Wikidata. author  TomT0m / talk page 14:07, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I added it as an exception to the constraint that classes should be subclasses of something. author  TomT0m / talk page 14:10, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]