Elle (ellexamines)'s Reviews > Fight Club
Fight Club
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Elle (ellexamines)'s review
bookshelves: 2-star, z-read2018, classwork, mystery-suspense
Sep 24, 2018
bookshelves: 2-star, z-read2018, classwork, mystery-suspense
I did not dislike this book because I did not understand this book. I disliked this book because I have fundamental ideological disagreements with this book.
I'm sure we all know this quote:
...I think this is just a really dumb way of looking at the world. The complaints about consumerism are one thing, even though they all sound like this SNL skit. But here’s the thing: this book is woefully and irredeemably nihilistic and I am emphatically not a nihilist.
I’m aware this sounds like an obvious statement, but the narrator of this book needs to get a fucking hobby. No, really. Fight Club is that one weird nihilistic asshole who thinks the apocalypse is coming because consumerism, or political correctness, or something, he’s not quite sure what, and also he makes fun of everyone for having joy in their life.
Here's why this bothers me: I’m sure you’re all aware that’s a terrible way of looking at life, but I think we do, genuinely, as a society, romanticize an idea of giving up and no longer caring. I don’t hold with that. Yes, we all have dumb corporate jobs and no meaning in our lives. If you don’t have meaning in your life, go out and fucking find some. Love, or family, or a damn puppy, as the narrator so sarcastically intones:
Like… he’s getting a dog and naming it a dumb name, like you do with a dog because it’s a goddamn dog and it makes you happy. Why is that so stupid?
I think the reason this bothers me is I know why buying a dog to be happy is stupid, and I choose to ignore it. Looking at the world through a nihilistic eye will never make the world better.
There’s another dynamic at play here - the new commonality of this language. nihilist language is the only rhetoric we hear about millenials right now? I mean, I’m sure this was a revolutionary idea twenty years ago, that none of us are special and consumerism is killing America so therefore, posessions are bad, and our current generation is awful for blah blah blah reasons. That is currently the belief of about 80% of older Americans about our generation. This book made widespread the use of term “special snowflakes” as a derogatory term (look it up - it’s true.) The idea that it is weak to care about things, weak to care about other people, or even weak to love your dog - it’s widespread. It’s not a weird deviation from social norms. Constant nihilism is a social norm; this book is thus not particularly transgressive.
I liked what user Ruzmari said here:
The thesis being “life is meaningless” does not make this any deeper or any less cliche and done-before.
(Oh, and since I’ve brought up the whole snowflake thing - weirdly enough, this book has absolutely nothing to do with political correctness, but it does talk about how the generation before my own was raised to believe they’d be everything. It’s so funny to me that this led to the entire criticism of “millenial snowflake” culture. People who were adults in ‘96? Isn’t that ten years off?)
And listen, to the inevitable person who is going to say I just didn't get it: I really love unreliable and biased narrators. I am also not convinced this narrator, though certainly unreliable, is meant to be disagreed with. I mean, seriously, after all of that people-are-trash, our-generation-is-terrible bs for 200 pages, this is the payoff we get:
...this is still nihilistic? Actually, on that topic, here is a compilation of fake-deep, not-that-funny, ideologically-shitty quotes from this book:
Yeah, whatever.
I mean, I think the best things I got out of this book was a greater appreciation for the possibility of movie superiority over books and for how fucking annoying 2000s nihilism was. And from the movie, I got 1) new pop culture references that I actually understand now, 2) an interesting critique of toxic masculinity, rather than whatever this was, and 3) good acting performances. I'll just end with this quote:
Bye, Chuck.
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I'm sure we all know this quote:
You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake. You are the same decaying, organic matter as everyone else, and we are all part of the same compost pile.
...I think this is just a really dumb way of looking at the world. The complaints about consumerism are one thing, even though they all sound like this SNL skit. But here’s the thing: this book is woefully and irredeemably nihilistic and I am emphatically not a nihilist.
I’m aware this sounds like an obvious statement, but the narrator of this book needs to get a fucking hobby. No, really. Fight Club is that one weird nihilistic asshole who thinks the apocalypse is coming because consumerism, or political correctness, or something, he’s not quite sure what, and also he makes fun of everyone for having joy in their life.
Here's why this bothers me: I’m sure you’re all aware that’s a terrible way of looking at life, but I think we do, genuinely, as a society, romanticize an idea of giving up and no longer caring. I don’t hold with that. Yes, we all have dumb corporate jobs and no meaning in our lives. If you don’t have meaning in your life, go out and fucking find some. Love, or family, or a damn puppy, as the narrator so sarcastically intones:
My tiny life. My little shit job. My Swedish furniture. I never, no, never told anyone this, but before I met Tyler, I was planning to buy a dog and name it “Entourage.”
This is how bad your life can get.
Like… he’s getting a dog and naming it a dumb name, like you do with a dog because it’s a goddamn dog and it makes you happy. Why is that so stupid?
I think the reason this bothers me is I know why buying a dog to be happy is stupid, and I choose to ignore it. Looking at the world through a nihilistic eye will never make the world better.
There’s another dynamic at play here - the new commonality of this language. nihilist language is the only rhetoric we hear about millenials right now? I mean, I’m sure this was a revolutionary idea twenty years ago, that none of us are special and consumerism is killing America so therefore, posessions are bad, and our current generation is awful for blah blah blah reasons. That is currently the belief of about 80% of older Americans about our generation. This book made widespread the use of term “special snowflakes” as a derogatory term (look it up - it’s true.) The idea that it is weak to care about things, weak to care about other people, or even weak to love your dog - it’s widespread. It’s not a weird deviation from social norms. Constant nihilism is a social norm; this book is thus not particularly transgressive.
I liked what user Ruzmari said here:
The 1990s finds us again at a crossroads where literature is concerned, with the rise of Oprah's book club and the whole genre of "chick lit" on the one hand (in many cases just "silly novels by lady novelists" revivified), and a sort of phallic-anxiety heavy-on-the-masculine literature on the other. This second group, I like to call "guy crap."
The thesis being “life is meaningless” does not make this any deeper or any less cliche and done-before.
(Oh, and since I’ve brought up the whole snowflake thing - weirdly enough, this book has absolutely nothing to do with political correctness, but it does talk about how the generation before my own was raised to believe they’d be everything. It’s so funny to me that this led to the entire criticism of “millenial snowflake” culture. People who were adults in ‘96? Isn’t that ten years off?)
And listen, to the inevitable person who is going to say I just didn't get it: I really love unreliable and biased narrators. I am also not convinced this narrator, though certainly unreliable, is meant to be disagreed with. I mean, seriously, after all of that people-are-trash, our-generation-is-terrible bs for 200 pages, this is the payoff we get:
“We are not special. We are not crap or trash, either. We just are. We just are, and what happens just happens.”
...this is still nihilistic? Actually, on that topic, here is a compilation of fake-deep, not-that-funny, ideologically-shitty quotes from this book:
“Our culture has made us all the same. No one is truly white or black or rich, anymore. We all want the same. Individually, we are nothing.”
“Only after disaster can we be resurrected. It's only after you've lost everything that you're free to do anything. Nothing is static, everything is evolving, everything is falling apart.”
Yeah, whatever.
I mean, I think the best things I got out of this book was a greater appreciation for the possibility of movie superiority over books and for how fucking annoying 2000s nihilism was. And from the movie, I got 1) new pop culture references that I actually understand now, 2) an interesting critique of toxic masculinity, rather than whatever this was, and 3) good acting performances. I'll just end with this quote:
I have been told that I do not "get" you. That I do not understand the basics of a male love story, a male writer who understands the male psyche and who can convey what it really feels like to be, a male. Perhaps this is the core of my issue, being a hapless female who fails at trends. Either way, I have friends that adore you and for that reason only I will not completely denounce you on the internets. Keep appealing to your trendy fan base and keep raking in the dough. Maybe someday I will swallow my pride and appeal to the masses just like you. And James Patterson.-Source
Bye, Chuck.
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Reading Progress
September 24, 2018
–
Started Reading
September 24, 2018
– Shelved
October 4, 2018
– Shelved as:
z-read2018
October 4, 2018
– Shelved as:
2-star
October 4, 2018
– Shelved as:
mystery-suspense
October 4, 2018
– Shelved as:
classwork
October 4, 2018
–
Finished Reading
Comments Showing 1-28 of 28 (28 new)
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message 1:
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Tucker
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Sep 25, 2018 05:21AM
Lol I hate when that happens
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Elise wrote: "@Tucker I was actually so proud tbh it’s such a well-known “creepy movie”"
Yeah. For me its a mix of "YAY I FIGURED IT OUT" and "AWW i figured it out"
Yeah. For me its a mix of "YAY I FIGURED IT OUT" and "AWW i figured it out"
Same. I was watching it with my friend, a huge fan of this movie, and she was so dissapointed when I figured it out.
This review is A++++ I love how you breakdown the themes of this book and its impact on culture! Palahniuk is one of those authors with followers who insist anyone who doesn't like his books just didn't "get it." Love love how clearly you illustrated that you DO 'get it' and that still doesn't mean you're obligated to enjoy it-- especially when its too-cool-to-care theme is soo exhausting.
From what I understand (maybe I'm totally wrong?) nihilism = rubbish is what Palahniuk was going for. Only it went horribly wrong and the majority of readers didn't get that part. Kind of like how Lolita's writer was trying to present a massive critique of, you know, pedophiles, but a terrifying number of people think it's a love story.
Which, uh. Does not make it a good book. If you write a novel that convinces people of the exact opposite of your point...then you've kind of messed up massively.
(Ftr, I also vastly preferred the film.)
Which, uh. Does not make it a good book. If you write a novel that convinces people of the exact opposite of your point...then you've kind of messed up massively.
(Ftr, I also vastly preferred the film.)
@Kaylin oh my god exactly!! I hate it when people are like “you didn’t like this because you didn’t get it.” maybe I did get it and I hate it, Sharon
@Siavahda if that was his attempt, I don’t think it really... worked? like, to me, Lolita is a pretty clear unreliable narrator. this..... half my English class was drinking the koolaid on this one. if it’s meant to be unreliable, which I doubt tbh, I don’t think it’s working ://
AND YES THE MOVIE IS SO SO GOOD love it. it’s oddly very similar in dialogue but the takeaway is SO different.
@Elizabeth thank you very much love ya!!
@Siavahda if that was his attempt, I don’t think it really... worked? like, to me, Lolita is a pretty clear unreliable narrator. this..... half my English class was drinking the koolaid on this one. if it’s meant to be unreliable, which I doubt tbh, I don’t think it’s working ://
AND YES THE MOVIE IS SO SO GOOD love it. it’s oddly very similar in dialogue but the takeaway is SO different.
@Elizabeth thank you very much love ya!!
Nope, 100% agreed. I'm still not sure where I got the idea - was trying to look up a source and couldn't find one - but if it's true, it was a massive failure. And if it's not true... Then it's still a massive failure as a book, imo.
I think there's some story about Palahniuk warning his daughter to stay away from any guy who says Fight Club is one of his favourite books. I can't find a reliable source for that either, but if true...good parenting advice, at least.
I think there's some story about Palahniuk warning his daughter to stay away from any guy who says Fight Club is one of his favourite books. I can't find a reliable source for that either, but if true...good parenting advice, at least.
@Siavahda aaah I support that story. I feel like a lot of guys who like the movie especially like it for... VERY different reasons than I do.
Great review. This book is not for me. I've tried to read one book by Palahniuk and stopped after ~10 pages... I don't think I'll give him another try...
Noina wrote: "Great review. This book is not for me. I've tried to read one book by Palahniuk and stopped after ~10 pages... I don't think I'll give him another try..."
he just does not work for me, tbh.
he just does not work for me, tbh.
Respectfully, on this one, you didn't like the book because you didn't understand the book. The entire point of Fight Club is that Tyler is wrong, and nihilism, particularly the Gen-X, identity crisis version. Fight Club is honestly a period piece; a portrait of a certain time and generation. And the message is that, while it was normal to feel frustrated by the commercialization of our lives, while the struggle a lot of men were having with masculinity made sense, the answer WASN'T to reject our current society outright. That the voice telling you to radicalize and create chaos was NOT, in fact, some cool, prophetic influence, but rather a product of your own insecurities and worst impulses. The way this book was received often disguises that fact. It's unfortunate that a lot of (male) readers found the takeaway to be that Tyler Durden is cool and smart and iconic (a perception that, as much as I do really love the movie, wasn't helped by him being played by Brad Pitt). It's almost as if the "his name is Robert Paulson" scene was missing from most copies of the book, a scene that shows how Robert Paulson was most meaningful as an individual the narrator knew, not as a nameless soldier in an underground army, nor as martyr. Fight Club is a book written by a gay man, satirizing modern masculine insecurities, and identifying the problems these insecure men cause for society as a whole through their anger and sense of entitlement. If you get to the end of the book and think Tyler Durden was right, you have woefully misunderstood the book. If you get to the end of the book and think Chuck P. thinks Tyler Durden was right, you have somewhat less woefully, but still significantly, misunderstood the book.
Berlin wrote: "Respectfully, on this one, you didn't like the book because you didn't understand the book. The entire point of Fight Club is that Tyler is wrong, and nihilism, particularly the Gen-X, identity cri..."
okay, so I just wrote this entire review saying that I don't actually think the book is un-nihilistic; it's anti complete nihilism. again, the literal payoff is: “We are not special. We are not crap or trash, either. We just are. We just are, and what happens just happens.” that is not actually anti nihilistic, that is nihilistic. not to quote wikipedia, but according to the wikipedia definition of nihilism:
"Most commonly, nihilism is presented in the form of existential nihilism, which argues that life is without objective meaning, purpose, or intrinsic value."
i did not actually say (and do not mean to say) that i think Chuck P thinks Tyler Durden was right, simply that the book really doesn't have anything significant or meaningful to say to dispute Tyler's viewpoint. this message that you mentioned:
"And the message is that, while it was normal to feel frustrated by the commercialization of our lives, while the struggle a lot of men were having with masculinity made sense, the answer WASN'T to reject our current society outright. That the voice telling you to radicalize and create chaos was NOT, in fact, some cool, prophetic influence, but rather a product of your own insecurities and worst impulses."
you know, i see that in the movie, and i'm willing to believe that this is the intent of the book. but it's just not really there to me.
i would also like to point out that on some level, reading is partially subjective.
okay, so I just wrote this entire review saying that I don't actually think the book is un-nihilistic; it's anti complete nihilism. again, the literal payoff is: “We are not special. We are not crap or trash, either. We just are. We just are, and what happens just happens.” that is not actually anti nihilistic, that is nihilistic. not to quote wikipedia, but according to the wikipedia definition of nihilism:
"Most commonly, nihilism is presented in the form of existential nihilism, which argues that life is without objective meaning, purpose, or intrinsic value."
i did not actually say (and do not mean to say) that i think Chuck P thinks Tyler Durden was right, simply that the book really doesn't have anything significant or meaningful to say to dispute Tyler's viewpoint. this message that you mentioned:
"And the message is that, while it was normal to feel frustrated by the commercialization of our lives, while the struggle a lot of men were having with masculinity made sense, the answer WASN'T to reject our current society outright. That the voice telling you to radicalize and create chaos was NOT, in fact, some cool, prophetic influence, but rather a product of your own insecurities and worst impulses."
you know, i see that in the movie, and i'm willing to believe that this is the intent of the book. but it's just not really there to me.
i would also like to point out that on some level, reading is partially subjective.
Elise wrote: "Berlin wrote: "Respectfully, on this one, you didn't like the book because you didn't understand the book. The entire point of Fight Club is that Tyler is wrong, and nihilism, particularly the Gen-..."
What is it in the movie that you think makes that come across better than in the book?
What is it in the movie that you think makes that come across better than in the book?
The book is definitely an interesting book because you get good debates from it. The nihilism is dated now and I can see the misogyny in it. I remember someone who's favourite authors were chuck palahniuk and Brett Easten Ellis. He didn't enjoy female writers. That's his prerogative. I like a lot of male writers, but I guess I prefer women more.
I enjoyed the film though, although Brad Pitt as Tyler Durden looked physically like everything Chuck is railing against 😁
Amanda wrote: "I enjoyed the film though, although Brad Pitt as Tyler Durden looked physically like everything Chuck is railing against 😁"
FAIR
FAIR
I haven't read the book but I totally agree about the nihilism. It seems especially prevalent at the end of a calendar year these days. Being excessively negative solves nothing. Thank you!
I am enjoying the book, but I am also in love with your review. You did an amazing job capturing why it can be irritating (I am one of those weirdos who enjoys being irritated by the narrator) but at the same time, your argument that we are supposed to believe how the narrator is talking is really insightful. I hadn't thought of it in that way (when I do, books by authors like Ayn Rand really get to me). Overall, a great review! Thanks for sharing! (Also, I like how you ended on the movie comparison, that is honestly how I feel about The Great Gatsby!)
@Chelsea thank you so so much, this comment meant a lot!! It’s totally a me thing that I don’t often vibe very hard with being annoyed by narrators, but I’m glad my point of view on the nihilism was still relevant!
I think there’s a little more nuance than we’re supposed to totally agree with the narrator, I just don’t think the book necessarily takes a stand on it (and thus, it ends up feeling like a book with nothing to say, which would be fine for me if the book were an actually enjoyable experience, but 😣)
I think there’s a little more nuance than we’re supposed to totally agree with the narrator, I just don’t think the book necessarily takes a stand on it (and thus, it ends up feeling like a book with nothing to say, which would be fine for me if the book were an actually enjoyable experience, but 😣)
Julio wrote: "I'm amazed by how much I agree with this review. Though I may give Chuck a bit more of the benefit of the doubt, that he doesn't actually think Tyler Durden is right. But who can tell anyway."
I feel like if I ever met Chuck we would either become best friends or immediately get into a fight in a walmart parking lot and i kind of love that ambiguity
I feel like if I ever met Chuck we would either become best friends or immediately get into a fight in a walmart parking lot and i kind of love that ambiguity
You have so eloquently described exactly how I feel about this book, the movie, Palahniuk, and nihilism. Thank you.
It’s almost as if someone learned the word nihilism through their thesaurus and can’t stop using it.
very good summary/review. your words put a description to the disconnect I felt. confusion in the multiple worldview outlooks and philosophies presented throughout the book.