Talk: Human

Standardizing for All Species[]

I did a major revamping of the article based on the template for the other species in mass effect. It isn't complete yet, as military, culture, etc. still need to be completed, but I think it is a vast improvement and fits better within the wiki at large. If you have any comments or feedback, especially if you feel the page needs to be reverted to its old form, please let me know here. Thanks. Patrolmanno9 23:43, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

The page looks much better, but the trouble is, a lot of that information has already been put in (and expanded from Codex material) on the Systems Alliance page, hence the merge tag... Hmm. --Tullis 03:12, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

That's true enough. It looks to me like each species in the game has its own article and that its governmental body is referenced in that article. Merging the human article in the Systems Alliance seems backwards to me. Patrolmanno9 17:42, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Problem is then, if you want to learn about the Alliance, you have all that human biology info to go through. Unless the Systems Alliance then redirects to its own section on the human article, so you can choose what you read. Be careful, though, of replicating the same information within the article (i.e. the human history section with the founding of the Systems Alliance). --Tullis 18:14, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Counselor Election Period[]

I find it remarkably odd that it takes an entire year (despite my possible recommendation at the end of ME) for Humanity to elect a counselor, because apparently my vote doesn't carry as much weight as I thought it would if BOTH of the applicants (Anderson and Udina) are even voted, especially since Udina arguably was the worst Ambassador ever, and would be an AWFUL counselor. In addition it takes a few months for us to elect someone, but it takes a year to elect a galactic authority in a time of crisis? --Delsana 03:25, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Where is this coming from? I don't recall seeing anything about electing counselors in this article? For that matter, I don't recall hearing anything about it in the game either. Just speculating here, but logic would dictate that the process would work something like electing a Secretary General at the UN. People put their names forward and the Parliament votes on it, the winner either being decided by simple majority, or some predetermined supermajority. Unless, of course, the Alliance has an Executive branch, in which case the candidate may be nominated (like US Ambassadors). And as far as Udina being arguably the worst Ambassador ever, that's a very subjective statement made with not a lot to back it. After all, we know of only 2 ambassadors, period, and while Udina's acts may not make Shepard or Anderson happy, who's to say they aren't 100% in accordance with the wishes of the Alliance? IMO, there just isn't enough info to make statements like that. SpartHawg948 18:29, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

"With a position on the Council, humans joined a coalition force to exterminate geth resistance whilst the election of their councillor was being conducted." it came from that. --Delsana 03:26, 19 May 2009 (UTC) Also we witnessed a different ambassador to a small degree in Revelation and that one was MUCH better than Udina has been.

But where did the "entire year" part come from? That was what I kind of fixated on. And again, whether Udina was better or worse than Goyle is subjective. It's like us debating who was the better Russian UN Ambassador: Lavrov or Churkin. We don't know the full story. Ultimately, the only people in any position to make such a judgment are the people the ambassador works for (in my example the Russian govt, in the underlying debate it's the Systems Alliance Parliament, or possibly as executive branch.) SpartHawg948 04:09, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Life Span of Humans[]

The article states that the current life span of 150 years is likely to increase with the advent of new technology. This is incorrect. 150 is the theoretical limit for human life; simply a body (no matter how advanced the health care, technology or the fitness and health level of the individual) cannot last longer than this period. At 150 years the body will have degraded to the point of expiration. Rare instances may allow for the lucky few to reach 165 at most 170 (like those who pass the 100 mark today) but this will be the rare few. The only way to expand this life span is with extensive genetic engineering (banned by the Citidel in Mass Effect) or extensive use of medical nanites which constantly maintain the cells of a body, but they would have to be extremely advanced and number in the millions and have a constant presence in the blood stream. Mass Effect technology, as far as can be seen, hasnt even achived a basic nanite, let alone an advanced civilsation wide medical application. -- Looq 19:22, January 17, 2010 (UTC)

Well, regardless of what your research has shown to the the "theoretical limit" for human life, Mass Effect is Sci-Fi, which means that you have to apply suspension of disbelief. If the in-game material says that the current life-span of 150 is likely to increase, it's likely to increase. Simple as that. SpartHawg948 20:51, January 19, 2010 (UTC)

I didn't realise the in game description said that, I was under the impression it was speculation. Furthermore I resent your attitude, I am just trying to contribute to this wiki. Your use of "regardless of what your research has shown to the "theoretical limit" for human life" pegs me as a philistine that makes things up and calls it "research" to make people believe it. It is simply a piece of information I am aware of. Look it up. -- Looq 20:35, February 24, 2010 (UTC)

Wow! Really? You resent my attitude, and want me to look up research you did off-site, when you couldn't be bothered to do the research on-site to determine that the info you objected to was stated in-game? I've seen no research suggesting this, you didn't provide any sources for your claim, and even though it is clearly stated as fact in-game that the lifespan of 150 years is likely to increase you state it is impossible, completely disregarding suspension of disbelief. And then you want me to do research? You obviously didn't do any before claiming the in-article statement was wrong, so why should I? I don't resent your attitude, but I do find it overly combative. SpartHawg948 20:48, February 24, 2010 (UTC)

Admission to my ignorance was supposed to be an apology on my part. I apologise again for not being clear. I wont take this any further. -- Looq 21:07, February 24, 2010 (UTC)

And if I made you feel like a "philistine that makes things up and calls it 'research'" I too apologize, as that was not the intent. The reason I called it "your research" (which is all I said, I didn't phrase it in a demeaning or derogatory way at all) is because you stated the article is incorrect and started talking about the theoretical maximum and the only ways to extend it without once stating where this data was coming from, with the result that, when I needed a quick term to refer to this data as, I used "your research". I never implied that you made it up, or that you were a philistine, it's just that, when you don't say whose research it is, I have to assume it's yours. SpartHawg948 21:24, February 24, 2010 (UTC)

Besides the codex entries, there is also a dialogue where an Asari states that Asari usually stick to a relationship with a human for about 100 years, and since humans only become sexual adults at about 20 years, that also shows that humans live at least 120 years in the ME universe.--Nordostsüdwest (talk) 14:37, 29 May 2021 (UTC)

Newest race?[]

In the first line of the article it states that humanity is the newest race of sentient beings to enter the galactic stage. Isn't this incorrect due to the appearance of the raloi? (or is the "of notable size" covering that fact?) Dtemps123 23:54, April 14, 2010 (UTC)

It is written from the prespective of Mass Effect not Mass Effect 2 so that is probably the source of your confusion. Lancer1289 00:04, April 15, 2010 (UTC)

A small modification is needed on the "Human Biology" section. According to Mass Effect: Ascension, it is heavily suggested that human genetic diversity is a result of their relative youth, not having a large margin for inter-continental and inter-planetary breeding. It goes on to state that genetic uniformity is "happening to us too" as Indian and Nordic mixtures are becoming the "norm" and blond hair/blue eyes are extremely rare physical traits among humans now. Gweed 03:46, June 29, 2010

The problem with adding that is that it's speculation on Kahlee Sanders' part. Her area of expertise is synthetic intelligence, not sociology or biology, so even her reasoning is speculative. PhoenixBlue 20:57, June 29, 2010 (UTC)

Humans+Prothean experiments=Quarians+Asari[]

What if the protheans were not just examining humans, but made genetic experiments? They were able to join minds with others, (for example the beacons transfered data directly to a person's mind) so they made the asari to be like them. And the Quarians?The Protheans copied human DNA in dextro-proteins, and altered for some reason (what would explain the three finger on each hand thing). This would explain why they have that strong resemblance to humans. Or even the reapers are at the background?

And how about that is the largest bunch of speculation I have ever seen on this site. There is absolutly no proof, or even a hint of one for any of those. Complete, pure, raw, unsubstanciated, I can go on for a few minutes but I won't, Speculation. Lancer1289 18:32, June 23, 2010 (UTC)

This was the most sophisticated and culturated "go to hell, idiot" what i ever read!

Human Genetic Diversty[]

This probably doesn’t have a place on the page, but I’d like to mention it for fun. The claim of large human genetic diversity is actually wrong. Humans have a small diversity compared to other Earth species. It is believed this was due to us being wiped out to near extinction levels at the end of the last ice age. Only a few hundred survived in remote regions of Africa unaffected by the climate change.

Of course it is possible that other alien species suffered similar fates that made human genetic diversity large by comparison. Developing intelligence is evolutionarily expensive and sometimes means that you are not able to physically adapt to environmental change, instead relaying on intellect and adaptability to survive if things change. Ironreaper 12:47, July 27, 2010 (UTC)

Sigh... allegedly wrong. Not actually wrong. This is far from the first time that this has been brought up. First, let me remind you that Mordin states that humans enjoy a great deal of genetic diversity compared to other races. How diverse we are compared to other Earth species is not relevant to this in the least. Now, the idea that humans went through a near-extinction event is not scientifically accepted, nor is the idea of a 'genetic bottleneck'. Some scientists will tell you it happened, others will tell you that it didn't. So let's not go around saying that the game is wrong on the basis of a theory that is not widely accepted even within its own field, shall we? Btw, not sure what purported event you were referring to (specifics are always nice), am I correct in assuming you are referring to the Toba eruption? SpartHawg948 16:52, July 27, 2010 (UTC)

Fair enough. I did note that Mordin states compared to other races, not Earth races. I just thought to mention it. This is a work of fiction remember and they are allowed to get it wrong sometimes. Still, you'd be hard pressed to find a theory from that time in our history that is universally accepted, so i take your point. Ironreaper 04:38, July 28, 2010 (UTC)

Not that hard pressed, really. The Big Bang Theory, Einstein's Theory of General Relativity, Cell Theory, the Theory of Evolution (Darwin's or otherwise), the Germ Theory, the theory of Plate Tectonics, the Giant Impact Theory, all kinds of mathematical theories too numerous to go into, so on and so forth. These theories are universally accepted, or near-universally, though I'm not sure what is meant by theories 'from that time in our history', as there are no theories that date to that period (being before the development of the scientific method), and the time a theory concerns rarely matters in how it is accepted, and this is not one of those rare times. The theory that humans at some point suffered a near-extinction event is not universally accepted, or near-universally accepted. It's not a minority theory, but it's still not widely accepted enough to avoid major criticism. And the opponents of the theory present some pretty compelling archaeological and genetic evidence that counters it. I get what you're saying, but it is important to remember that how diverse we are in comparison to other Earth species has no relevance to this issue, and the theory that there was some historical event that caused this (i.e. a near-extinction event) is only a theory, and not a generally accepted theory, but rather one that is still very much debated and in development. SpartHawg948 06:12, July 28, 2010 (UTC)

Maybe interracial sex was very popular among humans in mass effect, increasing the size of the human gene pool. Anyway I googled genetical bottleneck and found that every geneticist I looked up, geologists and even evolutionary biologist accepted it. It doesn't look like it's a minority, but actually widely accepted, the only differing opinions is how it happened, some say a single near extinction event occurred like Toba, others suggest multiple bottlenecks occurred over long period of time before a large population explosion in the late stone age. Googling helps, it's not a theory from before the scientific method, but an anomaly found by geneticist when looking at our mitochondrial DNA. And since it suggests that our genetic variation decreased due to a population drop and inbreeding amongst survivors, my bet is in mass effect inter racial relationships are popular with humans (eg Jacob and default Female Shepard), which likely occured in large numbers from the present time to 2183, causing an increase in human genetic diversity.66.183.46.74 11:46, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

Hmmmm... you don't seem to be getting the gist of this conversation. If there was a genetic bottleneck, then the gene pool would be extremely limited from the beginning. All the interracial relationships in the world after that point wouldn't create new genes and genetic diversity. It'd just be reusing the existing material. As for mitochondrial DNA, due to the fact that it makes up one tiny part of most genes and is exclusively patrilineal or matrilineal, coalescences of the sort you mention are to be expected, and in and of themselves cannot be held up as conclusive proof of, well, of anything. Many scientists agree in a diminished breeding population, this is true, but as stated before, the theory of a catastrophic bottleneck (i.e. breeding pairs numbering only in the hundreds, as the first post suggested, and as I was addressing) is not widely accepted. There are many theories. Some argue no bottleneck, others a very catastrophic one, others a short but not too severe one, and still others a "long bottleneck". Contrary to what your post suggests, I never disputed that, as demonstrated in my prior comment: "The theory that humans at some point suffered a near-extinction event is not universally accepted, or near-universally accepted." As for googling, no thanks. I find that about as useful as going onto the street corner and asking, which is why I typically use EBSCOHost to peruse the peer-reviewed journals, where this type of stuff is discussed, and reviewed, by the experts themselves. SpartHawg948 19:43, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

It should also be noted that in one of the novels, I believe Mass Effect: Ascension, Kate makes the observation that humans, while being genetically diverse compared to the rest of the galaxy, is becoming more genetically homogenous. I could quote the material, but I'd have to re-download the e-book. It's made when Kate first reaches the Quarian Migrant Fleet before meeting with the Quarian space captain. I thought this was significant enough to warrant it's inclusion as a side note. Someone made the claim that Kate was not a biologist or something of that sort, as far as I'm concerned it was worth including in an official novel and is canon information, besides that it's fairly evident that inter-racial breeding on a global/inter-planetary scale would of course begin to homogenize the gene pool.Gweed

I was under the impression that human genetic diversity was also attributed to recent origin as well as the ancestral population's small size. So the low genetic variation observed in Homo sapiens is in part due to their recent speciation in comparison with our longer lived relatives i.e. Gorrillas. This means one does not need to rely soley upon the "bottleneck" hypothesis. There is widespread agreement amongnst scholars across subjects that a bottleneck has occured perhaps caused by the Toba super eruption however this event occurs during modern humans dispersal across Africa and so the potential exists that the eruption could cause several isolated populations across geographical areas to maintain genetic diversity or increase it once reunited within larger populations. What does this mean? Well Homo sapiens emerge at least around 180,000 years ago and so assuming rates of genetic diversity for aliens in Mass effect are similar as Homo sapiens then they would have emerged after this date to be considered of lower genetic diversity. This is possible so Mass effect may indeed be correct. Also it is worth noting that the genetic sampling used for the low genetic diversity analysis could be biased as small samples of DNA were taken. To illustrate, the new findings of 2-4% admixture of Neaderthal DNA found in some modern populations which, if taken into account would increase genetic diversity. Finally, our low genetic diversity could be biased by our historic migration patterns i.e. colonisation & also genacide. It can be assumed that the Mass effect aliens would have undergone similar global migrations decreasing diversity as genes mix and as they reached the citadel prior to humans we could assume that their isolation within species is decreased and interaction is increased more so than humans thus decreasing their genetic diversity in comparison to Homo sapiens. So can the debate regarding human genetic diversity be finally ended?

Topics like this belong elsewhere as this is not what talk pages are for. Lancer1289 23:27, May 19, 2012 (UTC)

Relationship with Hanar[]

How would the galactic relationships between Human and Hanar work since Shephard wiped out the entire surviving civilization of the Protheans, whom they worship as gods?

Well. The Collecters can hardly be considers "The Enkindlers" any more and the hanar would not want to believe their gods were stripped down into mindless drones. Putting aside that the galaxy are not aware of the collecter-prothen connection, that few would be aware that Shepard had wiped them out, Shepard was not affiliated with the Systems Alliance at the time, but with Cerberus, so its probably not going to affect the Alliance relations in a big way. Given the hanar's rude condemnation of humans in light of such tragedies, its likely the Alliance did not have strong ties to them anyway--124.180.193.134 12:31, September 28, 2010 (UTC) last one was mine--Ironreaper 12:32, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Looks a bit outdated[]

It seems this page is largely written based on what had occurred prior to Mass Effect 1. I believe some updating is needed in regards to humanity’s new role as members of, and in some cases even leaders of, the council. The events of ME1 also affected relations with other races, especially the turians if I recall correctly (and once again in diverse ways). It might even be worth adding the current ranks of Ashley and Kaidan (even though one will be dead either way). I'm not quite sure how to properly update things though, because of the "if Shepard..." that comes up. An example of this is relations with the turians becoming warmer (joint military exercises) opposed to turians no longer feeling bound by the Treaty of Farixen, thus stepping up dreadnought construction - all depending on the survival or death of the council.

I suppose the "if Shepard..." should probably be avoided to some extent, but at the same time it's hard to avoid recent history in an article that is in part about recent history. At the very least the fact that humans gained a seat, or even completely control, the council as of 2183 should be incorporated in some way. - Kerethos 21:43, October 27, 2010 (UTC)

Um how about that goes under spoiler tags. See the MoS on perspective for more. Intro paragraphs are to be written from the perspective of someone who hasn't, in this case, played ME yet, remember there is no Mass Effect 1. If new information is to be added, then it has to go under spoiler tags, no exceptions. Lancer1289 21:57, October 27, 2010 (UTC)

Fit human strength[]

First I'd like to point out I'm new to Mass Effect lore since it was just out on PS3, so I apologize for not really knowing what I'm talking about. Anyway where it says "though fit human males are likely to be far stronger than the average asari", shouldn't that be "fit humans overall" with no gender discrimination since by "fit human" I'm assuming it's referring to Shepard who punched Saren the Turian and knocked him off his feet, as we know female Shepard is just as strong as male Shepard.

Also comparing to council races seems a bit overboard since there is a lot of different variables. Although I guess using "fit human", "likely", and vs "insert average council" giving a vague generalization of the maximum human strength kind of saves it, ignoring exceptions such as Matriarch Aethyta who headbutts with Krogan and wins in the Shadow Broker vids. Though scenarios like Miranda who seems like a fit human in every way doesn't really seem physically as strong as Shepard, but I guess she's more of a biotic and less of a straight up puncher like Ashley. Even Jacob with all his muscles doesn't seem to have the Krogan strength to wield the Claymore shotgun that a Claymore train Shepard and Captain Enyala are able to. Maybe throw in Legion and Widow trained Shepard as well since those weapons require immense strength to endure the kickback. They're definitely stronger than the average Asari, but do you consider Vanguard Asari and their human counterpart who use shotguns and assault rifles average?

Weapon proficiency probably isn't the best way to gauge physical strength but since both Grunt and Legion confirmed physically strong characters use large weapons instead of small pistols and submachine guns, it should give a idea of strength. Garrus and Zaeed in my opinion seem to be the in same strength class as those Vanguards and Heavys, being a mix hybrid Infiltrator and Soldier relative to their powers and talents, strong but not strong enough to use arm shattering weapons. But if those Vanguards are average most fit humans would be below average. If not then they would be stronger than fit humans like Miranda, Jack, Kasumi and Jacob. Luckily "likely stronger than average asari" is used. Just my two cents from reading the article.

Maybe it's just me, correct me if I'm wrong but from playing the game I got the impression that on average Turians and humans are around the same strength, while Asari and Salarians being weaker, require underhanded and surprise first strike tactics to win battles against stronger adversaries.

Why would it say "fit humans overall" and not "fit human males"? Fit human males makes sense, since unlike the asari, a mono-gendered species, humans demonstrate pronounced gender dimorphism, with males being, on average, stronger than females. As for the rest, I must confess I can't see why any of this belongs on a talk page. It seems much more appropriate for a forum or blog. SpartHawg948 19:46, March 4, 2011 (UTC)

I understand, it's just to me it seems the average human male is stronger than the average female, but once you start talking about the humans in the fit tier, things start the level out among the genders. A female human with strength training, gene therapy and muscle weave implants is just as strong as her male counterpart, as shown by femshepard minus the gene therapy, or maybe not since gene therapy is common for alliance soldiers.

Anyway delete this section if you want, just point me in the direction of the forum, I kinda thought the talk page was the forum, guess I'll start looking for it. I have to confess though, I'm just really really bored, I beat this game 6 times with all classes and genders, got all the trophies and now I'm waiting for Mass Effect 3 to be released for the PS3. I just went through the wiki in case I missed anything, playing the first Mass Effect through a comic book intro and all. Guess I'll move on to the next Xbox 360 game to be ported over to PS3 now that I've beaten Ninja Gaiden Sigma and Sigma 2, Batman: Arkham Asylum and Mass Effect 2. Just wish they were able to port ME1 over to PS3, at least I get to play extra characters in Ninja Gaiden and Batman that 360 don't--66.183.46.232 23:04, March 4, 2011 (UTC)

The forum you would be looking for is the Watercooler forum. However we cannot delete the section, as we generally archive talk pages, and to quote from our Community Guidelines, "Talk pages are not: a substitute forum, a space to post theories without fear of deletion". Granted they are bullet points but it is still accurate. You can also read what talk pages are used for on the CG page as well. Lancer1289 23:18, March 4, 2011 (UTC)

Homo Sapiens[]

Humans, known taxonomically as Homo sapiens (Latin: "wise man" or "knowing man"), from the planet Earth...124.106.137.163 10:01, November 2, 2018 (UTC)

irrelevant. this isn't either of the halo wikis where known species were designated scientific names in-universe. T̴̴͕̲̞̳̖̼̱͒͛̎͒ͫ̃ͧeͩ̈̽̈҉͓̝̰̼̦̫̤̀͠m̫̪̪̯̻͎̫̅̇̓̇͌̚p̸̙̝̓̓͌ͨ͆ͣͥ̂̕o͒̽͐̽͏̞̬̻͕͔͕͚̰͍͠͞ṙ̢̞͚͈̹̰ͨ̓ͭ̈́̌ạ̢̧̪̹̺̺̣̹̲͂͆̏ͪͨ͒ͭř̹͈͜͠y̷͍̻̜̹̼̾̽̈́e̵̹̼̟̦͚͐̈́͌͘d͉̲̣̻͉̱͗̅ḭ̷̻̆͋̆̓̔͝t̨͍̦̫̗͂̅̍̋̆ͩ͝ộ̫̟̬̳̝̲̾ͫ̒̿ͮ̑̚rͯ̎ͨͭ̄̿̽͛҉̠̫̱̠̘̘̲́ͅ7̩̻ͤͩͨ͝͡8̜̣̙͇̻ͨ͛͛̆͒̆̽̒͐͜͡ ͥ̍̉̃̇ͥ̓ͨ͏̕҉̥̹͓̗̤̠̖̤ (talk) 10:04, November 2, 2018 (UTC)