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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete‎ When weighing policy based input and discounting canvassing, consensus is clear that the label does not meet the guidelines. Should someone want to work on an article about Turner, happy to provide this in draft if helpful. Star Mississippi 02:31, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Pickled Egg Records

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Pickled Egg Records (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)
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There isn't any significant coverage for this record label. Does not meet WP:NCORP. Frost 16:18, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

An old label with many connections to artists and other labels Dave ida (talk) 21:11, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete I've added the only references that I could find, and that was an interview with the owner, so it's not much of a reference. I've had a nosey around and can't seem to find any other references that count towards notability. Delete per WP:GNG. Knitsey (talk)
  • Weak Keepstrike duplicate !vote There are some articles regarding band album releases on Pickled Egg Records. Fryedk (talk) 23:02, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Significant because of relative longevity (for an indie label) and connections to a couple of major acts, most importantly Daniel Johnston. I've added a couple of press refs.MongogramForCandy (talk) 10:23, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. I've added links for notable musicians who have recorded for the label, including Jeremy Barnes (A Hawk and a Hacksaw, Neutral Milk Hotel, Beirut), Seb Rochford (Polar Bear, Acoutic Ladyland), Alex Neilson (Trembling Bells, Will Oldham, et al), writer, broadcaster (BBC Radio 3 and Radio 4) and musician David Bramwell; plus of course, the aforementioned Daniel Johnston, and the debut Go! Team single. Nigel Turner (talk) 11:25, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The label famously - some might say, infamously - secured five entries in John Peel's Festive Fifty in 1998, a mere 12 months after launching; I've added a reference for this. The label also set up and managed Daniel Johnston's first European tour; again, I've added a reference to this. Nigel Turner (talk) 21:10, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Added links and citation for the release in 1999 of the Evolution Control Committee's 'Whipped Cream Mixes', considered to be the first modern mash-up record. Nigel Turner (talk) 12:23, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
KEEP! Because Pickled Egg was a great label and this entry should be kept for posterity! 84.67.149.83 (talk) 16:47, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
hyhas 'KEEP' been struck out here? Doesn't appear to be a duploicate to me. Nigel Turner (talk) 21:20, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

- Keep! I've referred to this page a number of times, found it very helpful when exploring an area of the music scene that is underrepresented online and pages like this one are an important resource and document. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C4:2B1B:2501:1110:439:E531:A57D (talk) 14:48, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Yes. This is a good example of how to correctly interpret the guidelines. You've pointed to notable *acts*. But ... the notability of the acts does not confer notability on the label.... HighKing++ 15:13, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: I don't have any proof, but this discussion has all the hallmarks of having been the subject of canvassing. Giving it another week to invite comment from previously uninvolved users.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Just Step Sideways (talk) 23:47, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keepstrike duplicate !vote. I've added yet another notable citation, this time for the 2006 BBC Radio 1 One World one hour Pickled Egg Records Special. How many small independent labels can boast of that? The Wire Magazine did an interview with Pickled Egg in the early 2000s, but I can't find any online reference to it. I have a printed copy somewhere, but so far haven't been able to locate it. Regarding the suggestion of 'canvassing', I completely refute this. I have no idea who these people are who have left comments. Nigel Turner (talk) 20:25, 14 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I've added a link to the Robots & Electronic Brains interview with Nigel Turner. Nigel Turner (talk) 20:37, 14 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep.strike duplicate !vote I've added four more notables, which now brings the number up to 21, or thereabouts. Nigel Turner (talk) 20:58, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete: These are about the best I can find for sourcing [1], [2], I don't think we have enough to show notability. References now in the article aren't enough for notability. Oaktree b (talk) 00:53, 14 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. Can't find any other sources aside from what Oaktree b has already found. No WP:SIGCOV. Procyon117 (talk) 14:11, 14 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep There seems to be enough, though light notability. MannyMammal (talk) 02:01, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete There appears to be some confusion over the relevant criteria. This is a company therefore GNG/WP:NCORP requires at least two deep or significant sources with each source containing "Independent Content" showing in-depth information *on the company*. "Independent content", in order to count towards establishing notability, must include original and independent opinion, analysis, investigation, and fact checking that are clearly attributable to a source unaffiliated to the subject. Adding lists of "notable acts" doesn't confer notability on the record company WP:NOTINHERIT. Unfortunately, unless there's another place to put the information, this doesn't meet the criteria. Perhaps someone could create an article on Nigel Turner (Record Producer) which might be easier to meet notability criteria? HighKing++ 21:24, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I strongly disagree with this. Record labels only exist to facilitate and promote musicians. If you take this line, then no record label should have an entry on Wikipedia. Many of the musicians on Pickled Egg were first brought to the public's attantion on Pickled Egg, and have gone on to become notable following their association with the label. To my mind, this makes the label itself notable. And I fully disclose my conflict of interest here. Nigel Turner (talk) 10:54, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I have no desire to have a Nigel Turner Wikipedia entry. The label is notable, not me. Nigel Turner (talk) 11:08, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    You still created an article about your own company, which is a violation of WP:COI. 💥Casualty • Hop along. • 04:22, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    From what I can gather, the guidelines strongly discourage COI editing, rather than completely outlaw it. Also, from what I can gather, the guidelines only came into place in 2014, whereas I first created the page in 2006; others have edited it since. I only updated it more recently following the notification that it had been slated for deletion. I'm sure there are countless other Wikipedia pages that were similarly created by people who were personally involved in the subject matter in those early days. Are you suggesting that they should all be deleted? Nigel Turner (talk) 09:37, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    What about the fact that BBC Radio One dedicated a one hour showcase to the label in 2006? Or the fact that the label secured no less than five entries in John Peel's Festive Fifty in 1998? Or the fact that the label released what is recognised as the first ever modern mash-up record? Or the fact that the label organised Daniel Johnston's first ever European tour? If you know any thing about alternative/independent music, you would know that these are all notable. All of these are cited on the page. I know of numerous independent record labels that have Wikipedia entries that haven't even come close to any of these acheievements. Nigel Turner (talk) 12:37, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • You're going to have to get your head around the fact that notability is not inherited. If an act gets airplay, then the act is notable to some extent. Similarly, if John Peel played multiple acts all signed from the label, those acts are notable. Or the fact of "the first ever modern mash-up record" points to that act and that record - it does not point to the label. We need to see articles that talk about the *company*. Not the promoter, not the acts. It isn't difficult to understand the requirements for companies/organizations - but some companies (e.g. record labels) will struggle. When all is said and done, record labels might achieve a sort of "reflected glory" but only because of success/notoriety of the some of the artists. A label becomes notable when somebody bothers to actually write *about* the *label*. HighKing++ 15:13, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 23:27, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment I don't think that CORP is always a good fit for record labels, and a record label certainly becomes notable by the art it releases and the culture it influences. As this is an ongoing commercial enterprise I am much more inclined to think that CORP applies in this instance, though. When determining notability, here, how is WP:V met, given the lack of in-depth independent sources? Even if we apply GNG in place of CORP here, it appears the BBC program counts towards notability. What else do we have? The significant number of notable acts is important, but we need to ensure we aren't dealing with a walled garden, which is a problem often encountered on 21st-century record label articles. Are we able to build a useful article about the topic, each sentence meeting WP:V and WP:NPOV per WP:WHYN? I agree with Just Step Sideways, this smells of canvassing. 78.26 (spin me / revolutions) 16:50, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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