Talk:Itchycoo Park

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This article was nominated for deletion on April 9, 2007. The result of the discussion was keep.

My understanding of Itchycoo Park is that it was a place where people took drugs. Get 'high' and 'all too beautiful' was about taking LSD, I thought

See, now, I always thought it was Japanese, "Ichiko Park". The reference to a Bridge of Sighs just sealed that image in my head. Best regardsTheBaron0530 (talk) 14:19, 8 March 2017 (UTC)theBaron0530[reply]

Re: someone keeps adding this info - "Session guitarist Big Jim Sullivan devised the distinctive opening" - I am currently checking this out with Small Faces biographer John Hellier Sue Wallace 09:38, 22 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Probably the man himself! Thanks for taking the time to verify the information; but remember, if it's not written down we can't actually use it! If I recall correctly, Itchycoo Park was a bit of a generic term throughout the East End, for any open space frequented by tramps (see Spitalfields, Whitechapel, etc). Kbthompson 09:53, 22 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I had a look on the web and I found lots of instances where the word "itchycoo" is used to describe a general itch or and/or stinging nettles and also the hairy dog rose seeds that kids put down each others backs to cause irritation not sure whether actual parks were called itchycoo, it's quite possible they were though. I can only find the above mentioned on blogs and chatrooms, don't think wiki will accept any of those as verification. Still waiting to hear on the Big Jim confirmation, but if they want it added they need to get it cited first anyway don't they. Sue Wallace 21:53, 24 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

John Hellier email reply-26/6/07 - Re: Jim Sullivan "I interviewed Jim Sullivan in 2002 and he claims to have played 12 string on Itchycoo Park but Mac and Kenney strenuosly deny it. Jim seems such a genuine guy but I can't be sure". Sue Wallace 16:08, 27 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

If the issue turns up, it can always be flagged as disputed. What we actually need are written down references, either in a book, or on the web. Cheers for all the work you've done on these subjects. Kbthompson 16:15, 27 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I enjoyed trying to solve this mystery, shame it seems like its Jim's word against Mac and Kenney's, since there doesn't appear to be any proof available, not to say that Jim isn't telling the truth here, but any session musician in theory, could, many years later make such claims. Sue Wallace 16:38, 27 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm the culprit. My references are :- Pipeline Instrumental Review Number 22 Spring 1994 - p21 "Many a Small Faces single is graced with the Sullivan touch - that 12-string on "Itchycoo Park" is Big Jim for example". Mo Foster "Seventeen Watts ?" Sanctuary Music Library - p248 "It was, in fact, Jim who played the choked-chord acoustic intro on The Small Faces' 'Itchycoo Park'". Overzeal 18:47, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, its interesting, but that is different to what was stated in the article before, what I mean is, theres a big difference to "Played" and "Devised" - did you see the above where Mac and Kenney "strenuously deny it"..? and as you probably know, Ronnie Lane died in 1997, Marriott in 1991. Sue Wallace 19:10, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

FWIW the sample '1967' track is actually a sample from the 1975 track! The song was re-engineered/recorded in 1975 (or so) and lasts a few seconds longer. The phasing is quite different and in stereo and contains nothing of the original rising phase - more of a wobble than a phase IMHO. No comparison with the 1967 version. People (radio presenters) often play the 1975 version and say it is the original...... I have a video showing the 1967 version and one showing the 1975 version with the SF a few years older. Curiously the track sounds are switched! [Lawrence Harris 22 November 2008] —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lawrence127 (talk • contribs) 13:21, 22 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The Beatles used phasing on Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds before this track was recorded or was released before this track. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sydfloyds12 (talk • contribs) 00:32, 11 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I grew up in Ilford in the 1960s, and it was certainly commonly believed that this song was about Little Ilford Park. However, I never heard a suggestion that it was inspired by Valentines Park. Nor did I ever hear anybody refer to Valentines as Itchycoo Park. I have requested a source for this claim; if none is provided, I will eventually remove the sentence. RolandR (talk) 16:34, 20 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

To people living in Little Ilford, the name of "Itchycoo Park" was always a popular local name for Little Ilford Park. Rif Winfield (former Borough Councillor for Little Ilford Ward) Rif Winfield (talk) 12:49, 25 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I reverted some edits stating that there were factual errors. These comments do not belong on the article page. they go here on the talk page where they can be discussed. Also please pardon my reverting my own edits as vandalism. lol . --RichardMills65 (talk) 08:40, 1 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The header of the article claims the song hit #3 on the UK charts. But down near the end the table says it got to #11. I don't have access to the data to know which one is correct. Can someone with such access fix the article? Tx. Kurt (talk) 02:09, 9 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Based on the source given, Itchy Park is quite clearly a different park to any of the three parks / open spaces laying claim to be Itchycoo park. I would suggest that the reference goes under 'See also' or 'not to be confused with'/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.47.93.63 (talk) 13:01, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This article makes a big deal out of flanging and how this recording was one of the first to use it. That is a spuious claim. Flanging was known in the 1940s and several recordings in the 1950s made use of it.

216.152.18.132 (talk) 19:29, 2 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"One of the first" is rather difficult to pin down. One the first three, the first thirty, the first three hundred, or the first three thousand? Whatever the precise meaning, it reasonably suggests something closer to "the first three", and thus would appear to be wildly inaccurate. The Wikipedia article to which you link mentions numerous earlier examples, then makes the same claim for "Itchycoo Park" as this one. This is especially strange because that article had just above talked about the use of flanging in the Beatles song "Tomorrow Never Knows", released the year before (1966). Show me a Wikipedia editor who thinks "Itchycoo Park" is a pop song and "Tomorrow Never Knows" is not, and I'll show a Wikipedia editor who hasn't the slightest idea what the term "pop" means--typical for Wikipedia, though. Just to be clear: they're both very much pop songs--although "Tomorrow Never Knows" was never released as a single. Maybe it should say "one of first rock era hit singles". In any case, I've just toned down the flanging claim for "Itchycoo Park" in THIS article. TheScotch (talk) 07:30, 28 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

“Itchycoo Park” is obviously strongly influenced by (which is an understatement), structured like, and modeled after the Beatles song released earlier the same year. The article should point this out. Of course we’ll need a source, but the derivation is so transparent and brazen, it’s difficult to believe a source doesn’t exist. TheScotch (talk) 16:20, 24 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The reference to "Bridge of Sighs" added to "Dreaming Spires" surely suggest an Oxfordian connection - Oxford is known as 'the city of dreaming spires' and there is a namesake of the Venetian crossing in the English university city - although I am none the wiser as to any park location. Barry Baritone (talk) 08:14, 17 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]