Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Nipissing University Student Union

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was merged into Nipissing University. ➨ REDVEЯS paints a vulgar picture 20:38, 28 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Nipissing University Student Union

The entire text of the article: The Nipissing University Student Union represents undergraduate students at Nipissing University in North Bay, Ontario & Muskoka, Ontario, Canada. They are members of the Canadian Federation of Students. I redirected this non-notable organization to its university, and was reversed by an editor who strongly believes in the notability of all student unions. I anticipate that the debate on this will be characterized by a variety of off-topic comments, let's hope I am wrong. This organization fails WP:N and WP:ORG. Paddy Simcox (talk) 10:36, 15 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Inherently notable. Bad-faith nomination as the nominator has done this to several SU articles. GreenJoe 11:58, 15 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Where is it written that student unions are inherently notable? Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • ^{(Broken clamshells•Otter chirps)} 13:30, 15 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia has no deadline. Where is it written that they're not inherently notable? SU's do a lot of stuff that is notable, and has coverage, but may not be immediately available to find on the web. It may require a visit to a library for example. GreenJoe 14:08, 15 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment "This is an essay; it contains the advice and/or opinions of one or more Wikipedia contributors. It is not a policy or guideline, and editors are not obliged to follow it.". This user does not see like he's acting against WP:AGF, simply group AfDing student union articles in which the editor feels nn (and has very good reason to believe so), but did not feel like a bundle AfD is appropriate. I don't see a problem with this nominator. However, I do see random attacks at those who nominate AfDs and vote for deletion has gotten non-excuse excuses. - Jameson L. Tai ^{talk ♦ contribs} 03:21, 17 March 2008 (UTC) (including, but not limited to mentioning of bad faith, even so much as to Wikistalking. - Jameson L. Tai ^{talk ♦ contribs} 03:22, 17 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Student unions are not inherently notable, and this article doesn't even attempt to assert notability. Reso lute 14:28, 15 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete I agree that Student Unions are not notable per se. One must demonstrate that the union meets Wikipedia's criteria of notability for inclusion in the encyclopedia like any other subject and this article does not even indicate the significance or importance of its subject. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 16:12, 15 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Canada-related deletion discussions. —Shawn in Montreal (talk) 16:17, 15 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment—While I disagree with the notion that student unions have inherent notability, I do think that GreenJoe makes an important point about attempting to search for sources prior to declaring an article's subject non-notable. I checked the North Bay Nugget and found nothing. When I checked a library database of newspaper articles from larger Canadian newspapers, I found four articles.
- One is a 2006 Globe and Mail article about the comfortable atmosphere that the university president helped create at NU, and the student union president is one of the students quoted.
- There's a 2003 Calgary Herald article about a different NU president and again, a student union president is one of the people quoted in the article.
- A 2002 Canadian Press article discusses some controversy about a sign outside a student pub; "student union officials" said the university president had requested the sign's removal.
- Finally, there is a 1999 Sudbury Star article quoting the student union president about students' attempts to have the Mike Harris government freeze tuition.

Since all these articles are about some other subject and not primarily about the NU student union, I am doubtful that this is enough to establish WP:N notability. --Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 17:14, 15 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, and if one looks at the appalling shape of the Nipissing University article, one should come to the conclusion that the push for separate articles for student unions is dilatory. Paddy Simcox (talk) 18:01, 15 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

you have to check the google caches: North Bay Nugget as canoe.ca, like every other Sun Media/Quebecor media news source, deletes its articles after a while. nat.utoronto 06:13, 16 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I know Other Crap Exists is not an argument, but there has, since 2004, been a template for Canadian university student unions Template:Csa which has far as I can tell has never even been nominated for deletion. There seems to me to be four years of precendence here establishing notability for all university student associations.Shawn in Montreal (talk) 21:47, 15 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: With practically zero reliable sources or potential for sources (as Paul Erik notes above), this article will never be able to establish notability outside the local scope of its operations.—Noetic Sage 18:45, 16 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been added to the list of university deletions. —Noetic Sage 18:45, 16 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - no non-trivial coverage.--Michael White^T·C 21:46, 16 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. There are, as one might expect, many articles in the North Bay Nugget archive, including the following:

Student union legal squabble settled at Nipissing University

Sudbury Star (ON) - 02-17-2007 - 259 words

Ken Sitter - They may not have kissed, but they have made up. Nipissing University Student Union president Sean Feretycki, former president Kyle Marsh and student union general manager Todd Fearnley announced a settlement

Students angry as tuition rises: Nipissing University board approv...

North Bay Nugget (ON) - Final - 05-05-2006 - 368 words

Jennifer Hamilton-McCharles - Nipissing University students voiced opposition against a four per cent tuition hike approved by the university's board of governors Thursday. The tuition increase will mean first year arts and science

Students protest pricey education

North Bay Nugget (ON) - 02-15-2007 - 571 words

bryn weese - Students at Nipissing University are running out of money, and they have the debts to prove it. Many took the opportunity Wednesday to write down the amount of money they owe

Tests, homework . . . and legal fees

North Bay Nugget (ON) - 01-20-2007 - 891 words

BRYN WEESE - in their wildest dreams, or worst nightmares, did Kyle Marsh and Kyra Knapp think their university experience would include being sued for $425,000. The two history students, along with the

Students protest after being shut out of NUSU meeting

North Bay Nugget (ON) - 01-20-2007 - 284 words

Gord Young - About 15 students protested outside a closed-door meeting at the Education Centre Friday, claiming Nipissing University Student Union has flouted the principles of openness and transparency. The students, frustrated at

Students voice frustration over high cost of tuition: Small group ...

North Bay Nugget (ON) - Final - 03-04-2006 - 397 words

Jennifer Hamilton-McCharles - if the province decides to lift a tuition freeze. The 18-year-old first-year Nipissing University student was one of six protesters outside Nipissing MPP Monique Smith's office Friday

Nipissing University unfairly judged by Maclean's

North Bay Nugget (ON) - Final - 11-14-2005 - 404 words

Tom Condotta - 's ranking of Canadian universities released a week ago Sunday. I am a fourth-year student at Nipissing and confused by the rankings. Why did I leave Brampton to study in

Nipissing University opens new facility

North Bay Nugget (ON) - Final - 09-11-2000 - 219 words

Nipissing University athletes finally have their own facility to call home. The $3.5-million Nipissing University Student Athletic Centre, which was funded primarily through student fees, will officially be opened

Shinerama raises $13,000

North Bay Nugget (ON) - 09-10-2007 - 431 words

BY BRANDI CRAMER - North Bay glittered Saturday as more than 300 Nipissing University and Canadore College students took to the streets for the 43rd annual Shinerama. Shoe shines, car washes, barbecues, even odd jobs

Students face 4.5% tuition hike: Universities brace for hit to fin...

North Bay Nugget (ON) - Final - 03-09-2006 - 551 words

Maria Calabrese - put them deeper in debt to pay for a tuition increase this fall, says a Nipissing University Student Union executive. "Even if you make it so students can take out more

Pub limits underage students: The Wall's liquor licence threatened

North Bay Nugget (ON) - Final - 01-31-2006 - 488 words

Tara Bowie - Underage students at Nipissing University and Canadore College have been banned from their school pub after 6 p.m. Student councils which oversee the operation of The Wall made the decision

Campus eatery's controversial sign relegated to the garbage bin

North Bay Nugget (ON) - Final - 08-30-2002 - 600 words

Phil Novak - A jackass has been kicked off The Wall at the Nipissing University-Canadore College on-campus pub. The oversized donkey's posterior and its grinning four-legged owner are prominently featured

NUSU GM sends cease, desist letter to students

North Bay Nugget (ON) - 12-20-2006 - 376 words

bryn weese - Nipissing University Student Union's general manager, Todd Fearnley, has hired a lawyer to challenge statements by students he claims are defamatory. A letter dated Nov. 29 was sent to Kyra

Statements challenged

Kirkland Lake Northern News (ON) - 12-22-2006 - 348 words

BrynWeese - Nipissing University Student Union's general manager, Todd Fearnley, has hired a lawyer to challenge statements by students he claims are defamatory.A letter dated Nov. 29 was sent to Kyra

International flavours focus of annual food fair

North Bay Nugget (ON) - 02-09-2007 - 546 words

Ken Sitter - to taste their efforts and the efforts of others, said organizer Melissa Toupin Laforge of Nipissing University, and raise money to support the World University Service of Canada (WUSC) Student Refugee

Students complete successful food drive

North Bay Nugget (ON) - 09-11-2006 - 485 words

Brandi Cramer The Nugget - North Bay's pavement Sunday to ensure their comrades in need won't go hungry. Nipissing University and Canadore College student leaders gathered participating freshmen and went door to door in

Food bank's shelves emptying: Canadore, Nipissing students put out...

North Bay Nugget (ON) - Final - 02-04-2003 - 625 words

Brandi Cramer - Nipissing University president Dave Marshall is not surprised students may need to rely on the food bank to get through the academic year. "The best they are going to earn (at

Students shine in annual fundraiser: Largest-ever effort meets goa...

North Bay Nugget (ON) - Final - 09-09-2002 - 488 words

Jennifer Hamilton-McCharles - With help from 450 Canadore College and Nipissing University students, the local effort was able to meet the $16,000 goal. "We raised more than $14,000 Saturday and we have

Marshall returns to hand out awards

North Bay Nugget (ON) - 03-22-2007 - 265 words

BRYN WEESE - For the fourth time in as many years, former Nipissing University president Dave Marshall returned to his old stomping grounds to help recognize the leadership abilities of nearly 30 students. The

Money worries hit students hard

North Bay Nugget (ON) - 10-06-2006 - 304 words

Jennifer Hamilton-McCharles - The needs of Nipissing University students are different than five years ago, says the executive director of student affairs. Al Carfagnini made a presentation to Nipissing's board of governors, Thursday

On that basis, I say keep. --Eastmain (talk) 22:18, 16 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

All those sources are extremely local; therefore they fail WP:ORG (please read it). Paddy Simcox (talk) 23:31, 16 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I disagree, The North Bay Nugget and the Sudbury Star are not "extremely local" as you call it, rural-ish maybe, are they are part of one of Canad's Media Empires, Quebecor. As well, the Sudbury Star is the largest newpaper in circulation in North-Eastern Ontario (Ontario is Canada's most populous province and its capital, Toronto, is Canada's economic Capital). nat.utoronto 19:36, 17 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per Eastmain. nat.utoronto 22:47, 16 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - student bodies have to meet WP:ORG. This requires significant secondary sources. This page hasn't them and thus clearly fails notability standards. TerriersFan (talk) 22:41, 16 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete and merge I cannot discount the sources mentioned above to be completely useless, but it is local in scope, which directly violates WP:ORG. This article should be trimmed and merged into the main university's article in "Student life" and include those sources back into the main article for the trimmed version. - Jameson L. Tai ^{talk ♦ contribs} 01:36, 17 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
~~Keep~~ Very weak keep -- changed on the basis that the actual material there is not encyclopedic. There probably would be possible content, but it isnt that obvious that there's enough there to be worth keeping. ~~I was about to vote delete on this one, but to my surprise it seems there are sufficient sources, though not all the evnts relatedare important.~~ But the content of an article doesn't each sentence of it have to be notable, DGG (talk) 23:09, 17 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep The NUSU is notable in a Canadian context due to the legal matters that have occurred there over the years. The sources may be local, but the NUSU has been extensively covered across Canada due to the legal battles. It also noteworthy due to the close association and overlap with the college student union. 74.210.37.60 FullSmash26 (talk) 23:14, 17 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per the numerous sources listed above. Oren0 (talk) 18:44, 18 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Local sources. Anything interesting can be covered in the (very short) Nipissing University article. Paddy Simcox (talk) 14:00, 22 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  - I assure you that the sources such as The Eyeopener and the Sudbury Star are not "local" at Nipissing. Sudbury, Ontario is at a 30-45 min drive from North Bay, Ontario (where Nipissing U is located), and Toronto (where The Eyeopeneris based) is a 3+ hours drive from North Bay, Ontario. and as I've started before: The North Bay Nugget and the Sudbury Star are not "extremely local" as you call it, rural-ish maybe, and they are part of one of Canada's Media Empires, Quebecor. As well, the Sudbury Star is the largest newpaper in circulation in North-Eastern Ontario (Ontario is Canada's most populous province and its capital, Toronto, is Canada's economic Capital). nat.utoronto 21:38, 22 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Merge for now to school page. Hobit (talk) 20:21, 22 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Merge to the university's article, as independent notability has not been shown but within the context of the school it is quite relevant. Biruitorul (talk) 01:38, 23 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Merge As per above.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 11:56, 23 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.