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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep‎. Per WP:SNOW: In terms of pure numbers, this is at 27-5. It is obviously not going to be deleted. There is little point in continuing the discussion. Consensus is clear that WP:CRYSTAL does not apply to future election articles because it is known that the election will occur in the future. These exact types of discussions frequently occur right after major elections and always result in a keep. (non-admin closure) C F A 💬 01:43, 7 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Next United Kingdom general election

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Next United Kingdom general election (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)
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Won't be notable for years. Author is refusing to redirect the article despite numerous forced redirects. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 12:25, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Forced redirects are disruptive as they violate WP:BLANK. No opinion on the article at hand. Noah, BSBATalk 12:38, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No. Blank-and-redirects are allowed under WP:BLAR. The redirects were not controversial because the author reverted the redirects, not separate users. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 13:16, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It’s supposed to be discussed after the redirection is reverted. Forcing a redirect again despite objection is not supported by policy and guidelines. Noah, BSBATalk 13:30, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This does not address that the election is not notable now. No reason this can't be a draft. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 13:08, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Not a substantive comment. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 13:13, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This election should not be compared with others because its date is unknown. Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 April 17#2028 United States presidential election held that if an article cannot be written on an election, as it cannot be now, it should not have an article. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 13:12, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Unknown date seems irrelevant. The date of the next election in most Westminster-style governments is always unknown until just weeks prior, either because of a lack of any fixed election schedule or because of the ability to call snap elections even where a fixed date nominally exists. There have been "next general election" articles for many of these in the past, including the UK. They usually state that the election must take place "no later than," or "on or before," a certain date. So comparison can easily be made with others of the same type (e.g. Next New Zealand general election, Next Australian federal election, 45th Canadian federal election.) Lack of sources or relevance could still be a valid reason to delete in theory, but the date has nothing to do with it. Zachldl (talk) 17:25, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Don't see why this shouldn't stay as is. There's only 2 seats left to be declared and Keir Starmer has already been appointed Prime Minister. The election is basically over.
Juneauite (talk) 13:05, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Does not address the AfD reasoning. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 13:13, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"Won't be notable for years." Is just untrue. The next national election for a major country is notable. DimensionalFusion (talk) 13:20, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No, it will be notable when there are sources written for it. Next Nova Scotia general election is marginally notable because some discussion has occurred about the election in Canadian media. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 13:26, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The event is still not notable, so WP:CRYSTAL would not apply until this event was notable. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 13:28, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@ElijahPepe Why do you keep saying it's "not notable"? That hasn't been established - quite the opposite. Can you prove that's it not notable? I can find lots of media discussion regarding it
[1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] DimensionalFusion (talk) 13:32, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Most of these citations concern the same claim by Nigel Farage. The chances of Reform UK gaining 322 seats, a prediction wagered years before an election would even be scheduled, are unrealistically low. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 13:40, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Regardless of whether they concern Nigel Farage, they are talking about it and discussing it, no? DimensionalFusion (talk) 13:45, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If WP:CRYSTAL declares a 2028 US Presidential election notable, then the Next UK General Election is also notable. 64.66.123.248 (talk) 13:34, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
2028 United States presidential election is not notable, according to the RfD I linked above, and has been creation protected. One statement is hardly enough to justify this article. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 13:40, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's an official Wikipedia policy. DimensionalFusion (talk) 13:47, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's been creation protected because "The established consensus for election articles is that they should not be moved to mainspace until after the previous election has taken place," per the note on the draft article. The 2024 election has taken place in the UK. It's time for this to be created, and we're moving into WP:SNOW territory. 64.66.123.248 (talk) 14:16, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Creating an article for the next general election has been the practice on WP for many years, it makes sense, and it provides a convenient place for inclusion of election-focused content such as opinion polling results over time. SS451 (talk) 13:29, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Opinion polling has not occurred yet. This would be great justification for the draftspace. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 13:30, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
To elaborate on why I think it has been the practice and how it's helpful: for readers not familiar with the UK system of a parliament having a maximum duration but no minimum duration, clicking through from the most recent completed election to the "Next election" article gives them a quick rundown of how the system of dissolving Parliament and calling a new election works, and explains why there is no specific date attached, unlike for example the next French presidential election. It's better to have that information available in one place together with the specific information about how that system applies to the next election than to require readers to search elsewhere. SS451 (talk) 15:16, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep I can't understand there are any reason to delete the page. Obviously UK will have a next general election in no more than 5 years. Awdqmb (talk) 15:34, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete: We just had the last election, yesterday. TooSoon at this point for the 2029 one. Oaktree b (talk) 16:45, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. I agree, but I fear we're in tiny minority. Athel cb (talk) 17:00, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep per 1) multiple other AfDs on next elections; 2) WP:CRYSTALBALL: Individual scheduled or expected future events should be included only if the event is notable and almost certain to take place - event is notable (it's an election) and it's indeed "almost certain to take place"; 3) it's not true that "won't be notable for years": it already is, but will be even more notable as soon as opinion polls start being published (which will take days, weeks at most, not years). Impru20talk 17:06, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There are, actually: one analyzing how Labour's feeble vote share in 2024 could be an opportunity for other parties come the "next election", one commenting procedural issues on the next election's date, betting odds on the next UK election (yes, really)... this without the already forementioned facts of this being a notable event almost certain to take place (thus complies with CRYSTAL) and that there will be opinion polls coming out within the next weeks at latest. Impru20talk 22:11, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Not in the article though. Out of those three, only one is reliable enough. Tim O'Doherty (talk) 16:51, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"Not in the article" is not a valid reason for deletion: notability requires only that suitable independent, reliable sources exist in the real world; it does not require their immediate presence or citation in an article. The sources are available online, and I literally added the three first Google results in a rutinary search. Plus, the fact that there were sources on the subject already less than 24 hours after the previous election was over says quite a lot about the topic's notability. Impru20talk 23:52, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Is the Dissolution and Calling of Parliament Act 2022 not enough? We have definitely knew a general election will hold no later than August 2029. Awdqmb (talk) 00:12, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No. Tim O'Doherty (talk) 16:51, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. Very obvious as to why this should be kept, confused this is even being raised. Kioj156 (talk) 20:23, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep, WP:SNOW. It's standard procedure to have an article on the next election after the last one is over, and it's always a few weeks at most before an opinion poll comes out as a source about the election. I'm really not sure what this discussion is meant to achieve. Chessrat (talk, contributions) 20:25, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Precedent has always had the 'next' article created immediately after the previous election. I don't know why this is considered 'not notable': it is literally a general election that will occur at some point in the future, issues such as target seats for the next election are already relevant and we will have an opinion poll at some point in the next few weeks. The media will almost certainly start discussing it almost immediately anyway.Mozartnut (talk) 21:45, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Precedent has provided for the creation of next election articles for UK elections immediately after the election has been held. It also meets the notability requirement as people are already discussing the next election. If polling is the issue, as you noted above, I'd like to point out the first polls for the election we just had were conducted just one month after the 2019 election. Polling for the 2019 election began even quicker, with the first polls being conducted just two days after the 2017 election. Point is that we'll have polls sooner rather than later, so if we delete this article we'll just have to bring it right back again. PlateOfToast (talk) 23:24, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
draftify until there is something more to say other than the basics of what an election in the UK looks like (since that is duplicative of content already on Wiki) SecretName101 (talk) 00:56, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. Eventhough, the date for the next election is still unknown, and no major article has been written on this topic as of yet (which obviously makes sense, given we just had one), but we all know that next general election in UK will eventually happen, and when it does it will be an issue that everybody will be talking about and then, it's bound to be the top story in every major news-sites. It may have been a little early to already have an article for the next general election, but since it's already here, no point of deleting, since we all know that some day it'll need to be created in either ways. When major sources for this article does happen, we can simply add them for citation, but deleting the entire article is unnecessary and irrelevant. - Ashik Rahik (talk) 04:14, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. I remember this exact same thing happened in 2019. Moondragon21 (talk) 05:55, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep I don’t know why you want to delete this article? There will be another general election and it is due in 2029 - this page will soon have lots of links pointing to it. Just keep it.
  • Delete Currently this page has nothing about the next election on it. It is just reciting what happened in the current election and the rules for how an election works, which is available in plenty of places elsewhere. I think until actual information and discussion about the next election occurs, this should be deleted. Tedster41 (talk) 09:53, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep This article is significant and previous precedent shows this article has had this same argument already happen and been kept. Deleting this article also would be entirely useless since this article will be put up at some point in the future even if deleted. As well it is very much notable, as it is a national election that will occur. CIN I&II (talk) 11:13, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep unless the UK becomes a dictatorship which isn’t currently legal they will be another UK general election. King4852 (talk) 11:39, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete as there are no reliable secondary sources discussing it yet, and per WP:FUTUREEVENT which says Such articles are not appropriate if nothing can be said about the event that is verifiable and not original research. -- DeFacto (talk). 11:31, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - soon the first opinion polls on the new government will come and the should be included in an ‘Opinion Polling’ section of this article, per precedent and standard practice — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jmcaoat (talk • contribs) 13:16, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - I have used used this page regularly as my first point of reference (its an old link cleared down and updated to reflect the occurrence 2024 General Election) in the past as it held details of all the parliamentary polls during a Government's 5 year term and the next polls will be released in the next few weeks if not days and given the tenuous nature of Labour's victory (only 34% of the vote) changes in polling could well have a significant impact on the course of this government from the outset. There is nothing that focuses a member of Parliaments mind more than a poll suggesting they might lose their seat. Equally in the longer term it sets the mood for all the local elections that occur in the 5 years before the next mandatory General election (it is feasible albeit in this case unlikely there could be a General before the 5 year maximum) so this page is relevant pretty much immediately. Not only that the way the page has been structured in the past it identifies major events such as the change of a party leader in a way that allows analysis of how that change impacts the party's fortunes in the polls. The Conservative leader is standing down so as their leadership transition progresses polling is like to reflect that. Consequently the idea that the information on this page will not be relevant for 5 years is false. it is relevant almost immediately and because it acts as a poll tracker of all UK Parliamentary polls for that Parliament its relevant throughout the whole length of that Parliament.
  • Keep Last Thursday, as far as I know, will not be the last ever general election in the UK. There will be more opinion polls published soon as well (primarily, initially, to test approval levels of the new government). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Stevecgit (talk • contribs) 20:25, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - the 2024 election page was created in October 2019 and survived a AFD, 2019 election page was created about the same time as the 2017 election etc, Don't see the point of an AFD as it seems traditional for an article of the next election to be created soon after the last one and there already has 6 refs and more are probably out there so I think this is an easy keep. Knockknock987 (talk) 20:38, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As for whether the polling data is verifiable or not, all the polling companies publish their political polling results on their web sites so if you feel the need to check them its very easy to do. How verifiable other links might be I do not know and it may be that odd links are not satisfactory but that in itself no reason to remove the page, just the link. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.65.1.29 (talk) 20:05, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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