Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of pinball machines

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Tone 09:52, 23 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

List of pinball machines

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This seems like an indiscriminate catalog listing (and WP:NOTCATALOG). I don't see any source that would support such a grouping per WP:LISTN outside the Interned Pinball Database], and using a catalog/database as source is obviously problematic. Lists of all products of a given type are, outside a few cases were LISTN is met, usually not notable. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 00:55, 16 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Games-related deletion discussions. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 00:55, 16 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. Pahiy (talk) 02:54, 16 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: Piotrus, are you saying that you don't think that pinball machines are ever discussed as a group? I see multiple books on the subject, including The Complete Pinball Book: Collecting the Game and Its History by Marco Rossignoli (2011), Pinball Machines by Heribert Eiden and Jürgen Lukas (1997) The Pinball Compendium: The Electro-Mechanical Era by Michael Shalhoub (2008) and Pinball Wizards: Jackpots, Drains, and the Cult of the Silver Ball by Adam Ruben (2017). — Toughpigs (talk) 03:01, 16 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
KEEP Plenty of blue links there, so aids in navigation, and also collects things of a similar type. Some of those machines listed however don't have an article or a notable company with an article. Need to find references for them. Dream Focus 03:29, 16 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. As per editors above.Knox490 (talk) 04:04, 16 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, but only the ones with articles. The list provides enough additional info to justify its existence. While "unarticled" examples can be kept in lists, that would be excessive here and verge on NOTCATALOG. Clarityfiend (talk) 06:23, 16 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per all the above. Maybe trim out the non-blue links, but discuss that first on the article's talkpage. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 07:53, 16 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep agreed with above. Wiki Macaroons^Cinnamon? 09:14, 16 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Keep - This is a bit of a weird list, but I believe pinball machines have enough justified coverage and notability for an article like this to exist. Foxnpichu (talk) 17:10, 16 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep this is quite useful --Devokewater@ 20:04, 16 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per above. Re: LISTN, if Pinball does not demonstrate discussion of pinball machines as a group, what does the nominator think such a discussion would look like? postdlf (talk) 23:53, 16 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. Guys, seriously. A book about pinballs or such is no justification for having a catalogue list of products, just like we don't have List of phones, or List of cars (bad redirect...). This is just an indiscriminate list of foo-type products. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 04:10, 17 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

WP:NOTCATALOG is not relevant here. That guideline specifically talks about "pricing or availability information", i.e. using Wikipedia as a sales catalog of currently available items. This is a historical list of pinball machines produced by many different companies over decades; it is not intended for and it does not function as a catalog. — Toughpigs (talk) 05:36, 17 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I personally think both of those lists could work if they were done right. Foxnpichu (talk) 10:59, 18 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note we have multiple list of phones. List of best-selling mobile phones List of mobile phone brands by country List of open-source mobile phones List of 3D-enabled mobile phones and others. Plenty of car list also. Dream Focus 15:02, 18 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

We may not have List of cars but we have List of current automobile marques (and within each of those articles, the individual lists of cars associated with those marques. This is similar (at worse, the lists could be broken out to pinball manufacturer). --Masem (t) 03:26, 19 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep but clearly this needs to have valid sourcing and/or blue links for all entries. Pinball machines have a significant legacy, and while this list may not be complete due to lack of RS sourcing, we can at least compile what can be confirmed. --Masem (t) 03:22, 19 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I just ordered one of the pinball books, so when that arrives I can help with the sourcing. This is why I have too many books cluttering up my house. :) -- Toughpigs (talk) 03:30, 19 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Respect :) --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 05:21, 19 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: I think its a valid list per WP:CLN. It's already useful and it can be a building block of much more // Timothy :: talk 03:47, 22 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.