Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Khemed

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to List of The Adventures of Tintin locations. Its pretty lazy to just drop a link to google at the end of the discussion and say keep per that when other editors have made a real effort to discuss and analyse the sources available. I'm not therefore relisting as I might in another discussion where sourcing had not been as well examined.

For the actual close, the redirect seems a valid compromise given the strong arguments on both sides, albeit the delete analysis around the context of the coverage seems more compelling. Spartaz ^Humbug! 06:43, 10 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Khemed (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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May not meet Wikipedia:Notability (fiction) requirements. Perhaps redirect to List of The Adventures of Tintin locations. Goustien (talk) 21:31, 27 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2020 August 27. —^{cyberbot I}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 21:46, 27 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Fictional elements-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 23:12, 27 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete or redirect - The topic currently lack real world commentary needed to fulfill WP:WAF and meet WP:GNG. TTN (talk) 13:03, 28 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• That's false. The article contains extensive linkage and parallels between the fictional and real geography. Andrew🐉(talk) 10:22, 2 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Huh? WP:WAF is a writing guideline. Unless there is a GNG or copyright issue, it has nothing to do with deletion, or whether or not something is kept. If something is poorly sourced or poorly written, that's generally not an AfD problem. AfD is not clean up, and WP:ATD and WP:PRESERVE are pertinent.

It amazes me how someone who has been active on Wikipedia for so long can lack a basic understanding of deletion procedure. WP:DELREASON exists for exactly this purpose. Darkknight2149 03:17, 24 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep The topic has received adequate attention in sources such as Tintin: Hergé and His Creation and The Metamorphoses of Tintin, Or, Tintin for Adults and Tintin: The Complete Companion. It is therefore notable and so should not be deleted per our policies including WP:ATD; WP:BITE; WP:CENSOR; WP:NOTPAPER; WP:PRESERVE; &c. Andrew🐉(talk) 10:22, 2 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep As a kid I grow up reading Tin Tin books and in fact it was my first ever book to read other than school books, so I may be a little biased, but I also know a lot about this subject. Tin Tin is a huge comical character in the World, much bigger in France, Europe and Middle East than the US. In fact the popularity can be compared to Superman and Batman. So if Gotham City can have a page, there is nothing wrong to have such a page here. Wiki is supposed to be an online Encyclopedia for research purposes, so it is good to have this. Expertwikiguy (talk) 07:58, 3 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep per above comments, especially Expertwikiguy's comment noting its popularity in other countries; Wikipedia is already extremely US centric, it doesn't need to be more so by deleting this. WestCD (talk) 16:09, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep: The social and political structures in Khemed are discussed, along with Syldavia and Borduria, in Sovereignty Conflicts and International Law and Politics: A Distributive Justice Issue (Taylor & Francis, 2017). This is extradiegetic analysis that demonstrates notability. — Toughpigs (talk) 16:20, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Toughpigs: Could you quote parts that you think go beyond a plot summary? --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:39, 20 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

None of it is plot summary. — Toughpigs (talk) 02:43, 20 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I see an assertion, not a refutation. All I see is a plot summary. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:07, 20 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete, possibly redirect to List of The Adventures of Tintin locations. All content is pure plot and the cited sources don't go beyond it, despite assertions to the contrary, no quote has been provided that shows existence of a non-plot summary analysis, nor does the article contain a shred of a reception/analysis/etc. PS. The French article has a small seciton about 'sources of inspirastion' fr:Khemed#Sources_d'inspirations_d'Hergé but I don't think it is enough, through if translated that would could be merged to the entry about this place in the linked list. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:07, 20 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• keep I don't see how the book linked by Toughpigs could be called a plot summary per se. It is used as an example for international conflict resolution. Not all pages are available (at least to me) but it looks like it provides enough about the situation for the author to explain how his ideas would apply. The rest of the sources seem okay, but that one puts it over the WP:N bar for me. Hobit (talk) 23:31, 23 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• It's certainly a fine source for the main article or maybe an article on like the "World or politics of Tintin," but it adds nothing to the topic of the fictional country in terms of real world commentary. It's just an analysis of the fictional context with no emphasis on any of the countries. TTN (talk) 23:53, 23 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete or redirect. Fails WP:N. The commentary quoted above is about the Tintin books and their (fictional and real) politics, which are notable, not about the fictional location as such, which is not. Khemet is Hergé's pastiche of a stereotypical Arab emirate. How this culture is portrayed in Tintin is a matter of encyclopedic interest, but is best covered in context in the articles about the books and the series. What we have here is entirely in-universe description of the setting, i.e. fancruft fit only for fan wikis, but not Wikipedia (see MOS:FICTIONAL). Sandstein 09:40, 27 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Weak delete Merge and redirect and comment This info is fairly thin, but there are possibilities to beef up the context. For example, in Land of Black Gold#Third version: 1971, it turns out that this location was originally meant to be British Mandate for Palestine, but was changed at the request of British publishers. Perhaps this is covered in more detail in one of the Herge biographies or Tintin compendiums - I don't have access to the source used in the Black Gold article for that info. Also, there's nothing about how scholars and biographers interpret Herge's depiction of this fictitious country and its residents in the face of his other thinly veiled biases. Lastly, there's nothing about the role the country plays in the plot of the two books it appears in. Additional info in those areas might send this into weak keep territory, but right now it's a weak delete merge and redirect to List of The Adventures of Tintin locations. TimTempleton ^{(talk) (cont)} 23:22, 28 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• @Bradv: It is to me. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 08:59, 6 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• No. Redirect is not a good compromise for Keep. — Toughpigs (talk) 14:15, 6 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep per above comments and also because it contributes to a more complete and detailed understanding of Herge's universe and his era's Western perceptions of "the exotic" and "the other." --MaeseLeon (talk) 04:01, 30 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Nothing of this sort is sadly presented in the article, and nobody displayed good sources to use - GizzyCatBella🍁 00:47, 7 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Redirect to List of The Adventures of Tintin locations - I pretty much agree with Sandstein's analysis of the article and the proposed sources. However, as a valid target exists, I would think a Redirect might make more sense here than a straight deletion. If someone wanted to add any potential sourced information to that target article, that's fine, but as the current information in the article is purely in-universe plot summaries, most of which is not sourced to reliable, secondary sources, there is really nothing that would merit a Merge. Rorshacma (talk) 23:27, 6 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete or Redirect - see above - GizzyCatBella🍁 00:51, 7 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep, good scholarly commentary and academic analysis from researchers and writers at Google Scholar results. Right cite (talk) 19:38, 7 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.