Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Francis R. Whelton

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. It's very unusual to close as delete when the nom withdraws, but: 1/there is nothing notable except the DSC, and there iz no evidence of it. 2/I am not convinced the sources are substantial, except the obit. 2a We can use editorial obits as a source, the prohibition is on relying on ones written by the family, but I doubt the reliability here. 3/ The article is not neutral 4/ It seems to me that the way it reads it is a copyvio DGG ( talk ) 04:18, 23 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Francis R. Whelton

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Fails WP:ANYBIO article seems to be based on family folklore and a single database entry, no editorial discussion of this individual. Receipt of this award alone does not establish notability unless further cited. Sorry. -MJH (talk) 23:01, 9 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note for an admin - WP:WITHDRAWN per Comment below, although there is a delete !vote. I am fka MJH--Nixie9 (talk) 17:05, 16 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Unfortunately, delete - Google News archives provided three results which appear to be interesting (suggesting he was promoted to Sgt. and Lt. years after WWI) but they don't provide much through the previews. SwisterTwister talk 01:36, 10 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I will scan and update primary source. What specific items are requested? Details on him being the last survivor of his platoon? That he was declared dead by the US, and arrived home to his grieving parents? That he was a noted celebrity in Boston for months? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Akatie (talk • contribs) 10:38, 10 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - Personally I believe everything you are saying about your family member. Now, for it to be an article in an encyclopedia, you need to find independent 3rd party references, like newspaper articles, that cite each fact that you want to include in the article. See WP:REFB and WP:BIO for instructions. The Boston Post & Herald sound like the place to start. Good luck!---MJH (talk) 11:54, 10 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 02:38, 16 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 02:38, 16 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete NN. Buckshot06 (talk) 06:15, 16 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - References supporting notability have been found in abstract form [1], and work is underway to substantially improve the article. Courtesy keep.--Nixie9 (talk) 17:03, 16 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Courcelles 00:48, 17 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - there are a number of source extracts or summaries (provided above) that (combined) would likely be enough to meet WP:GNG were those sources replicated in a modern context with regard to a modern subject. Notability is not temporary so those are enough for me. The article needs work, sure, but they are WP:FIXTHEPROBLEM sorts of problems if we have reliable sources. Stalwart111 02:40, 17 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Junior officer with a single second-level decoration. The only real source is an obituary in a local newspaper. He does not meet notability requirements. -- Necrothesp (talk) 10:14, 17 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Massachusetts-related deletion discussions. Necrothesp (talk) 10:15, 17 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment hang on, why on earth was this relisted when the nominator withdrew the nomination a day before it was relisted? Lukeno94 (talk) 10:20, 17 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Where did the nominator withdraw the nomination? I don't see it. I see someone else claiming to be the nominator claiming to withdraw the nomination despite an existing delete vote. -- Necrothesp (talk) 10:33, 17 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - Click on the userpage of the nominator - you'll find out that they are indeed the same person. (MJH renamed themselves to Nixie9) Lukeno94 (talk) 11:13, 17 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Doesn't really matter now - just like it couldn't be deleted with a nom alone, it now can't be kept with a withdrawal of that nom alone. Consensus-building has started but the consensus wasn't clear so it got relisted. Withdrawal alone doesn't stop an AFD unless it was in the face of a WP:SNOW keep anyway. Stalwart111 11:26, 17 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - my withdrawal noted my prior ID and existence of a delete prohibiting speedy close. My new opinion is now registered and the debate should continue.--Nixie9 (talk) 13:27, 17 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Sorry, this is a fail of the GNG, the assertions of the two Keep proponents above notwithstanding. First off, obituaries fall precisely under the footnote to the GNG which holds "Moreover, not all coverage in reliable sources constitutes evidence of notability for the purposes of article creation; for example, directories and databases, advertisements, announcements columns, and minor news stories are all examples of coverage that may not actually support notability when examined, despite their existence as reliable sources." Secondly, as we all know, the GNG requires that a source describe the subject in "significant detail." Mere mention of his name in a brief piece about his son's Purple Heart award does not cut it. Thirdly, the biographical information given demonstrates nothing notable. Last survivor of a platoon? The US had tens of thousands of platoons in WWI. That Whelton was awarded the Croix de Guerre? France awarded over two million of them in WWI. Sorry, but we're talking about a minor civil bureaucrat, who fought honorably in a war where millions fought honorably. Ravenswing 23:16, 17 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: According to this source [2], which compiles the names of everyone ever to win a DSC, the article's assertion that Whelton did is incorrect. Ravenswing 00:02, 18 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.