User talk:Whaleyland/Archive 4

This is an archive of past discussions about User:Whaleyland. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Archive 4

Archive 5

Thanks for uploading [[:Image:FredSwanton.gif]]. However, the image may soon be deleted unless we can determine the copyright holder and copyright status. The Wikimedia Foundation is very careful about the images included in Wikipedia because of copyright law (see Wikipedia's Copyright policy).

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Hi there. Nice work on the above, but could you list your sources for the bios on the first kings? Especially the supposed connection between them and the Uí Néill. I find it hard to credit the supposed kinship, as the sons of Niall were of The Connachta, while the Kings of Dalriada were Cruithne - or at a push, the Ulaidh, who were of Érainn descent. Looking forward to hearing from you. Fergananim 13:31, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

Hello ! I was supposed to be working on a narrative for Scotland in the Early Middle Ages, but it was giving me a headache, so I messed around with a few of your kings of Dál Riata, in particular Selbach, Muiredach, Eochaid mac Eochada, Ainbcellach, Dungal and the shadowy Alpin mac Eochada. Please have a look, and do feel free to laugh at my sloppy research and woolly thinking.

Could you update Eochaid with the meaning of his epithet Angbhadh, if you know what it means ? My Gaelic skills are pretty much nonexistent, but I wondered if it meant something like stormy or dangerous. If you have any better information on who sent the fleet to Ireland in 733 (or maybe 734), please do fix up Alpin and Eochaid accordingly. I had a look in Byrne, Irish Kings and High-Kings, but it wasn't decisive. Do you have any information on Dúnchad Becc of Dalriada (yes, a red link, see Selbach) ? And finally, if you have a lot of info on the Scots, is the entry "Béc nepos Duncadho iugulatus" in the Annals of Ulster for 707 anything to do with them ? The 700 entry announcing the death of Fiannamail says "Fiannamail nepos Dunchado". Pretty close, yes, but is it close enough ? Cheers ! Angus McLellan 18:01, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Hey. I took Mais oui!'s advice and opened a wikiproject: Wikipedia:WikiProject Medieval Scotland. See you there. :) ! - Calgacus (ΚΑΛΓΑΚΟΣ) File:UW Logo-secondary.gif 20:37, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

Should this be in the Help: namespace? Rich Farmbrough. 21:25, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, that would probably be a good place for it.
–Whaleyland 23:20, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

I've been using s-ttl and relatives for complex successions of Lord Lieutenants and Custodes Rotulorum. It's very much appreciated. Do you think you could create a fifth "header" template, solely for the (E/S/I/GB/UK) Peerage? Using "Regnal Titles" for the Peerage seems a little out of place. (See also John Kenney's comments at Template talk:Succession box.) For the time being, I'm mostly working in the UK, and there's plenty to do there before worrying about how to adapt the system to the Continent. Choess 17:07, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Thank you! That's very helpful. I've asked for comments on some other style questions at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject UK Parliament constituencies/Style, so there may be some feedback from that quarter. Choess 20:00, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Oh, I realized there should be a separate Irish peerage (since that was never subsumed into the UK peerage, despite the name). I'm still turning over in my head the question of labeling pre-1801 titles, but the uk parameter will do fine for now. Thanks. Choess 20:37, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Gap fixed by removing the linebreak before {{qif.... I'll go read up on conditional syntax. Choess 22:48, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Oh, it seems to work OK already. Just do {{s-reg|1}}, etc. I've changed the numbering slightly; see my comments in the template. Choess 22:58, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Fixed. Now uses one unnamed parameter. I've also fixed it so that if you omit the parameter ({{s-reg|}}, it says "Regnal Titles" (e.g., sovereign titles), and if a parameter is specified, it says "Titles of Nobility". Take a look! Choess 23:40, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

This is too fun. I have a proposed modification for S-ttl: replace the current qif clause for "district" with the following. {{qif|test={{{district|}}}|then={{switch|{{{assembly}}}|case: uk=<br/><small>'''''[[{{{district}}} (UK Parliament constituency)|Member for {{{district}}}]]'''''</small>|default=<br/><small>'''''Representative for {{{district}}}'''''</small>}}|else=}} The effect is that if you set the "assembly" parameter to "uk" and just put, say, "Stafford" or "Westminster" for the "district" parameter, it will take advantage of the standard dab form for UK parliament constituencies and create a link to that constituency, with the text, "Member for X". We can add forms for other legislative assemblies as people and WikiProject members are interested; the generic "district" form will still work without a country parameter. If Wikipedia:WikiProject UK Parliament constituencies is interested, it would also be easy to work up a shorthand UKMPbox template that fills in the title and assembly parameters. Choess 01:51, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

No, I'm not an admin, that's why I bounced the suggestion to you — I figured you must be in contact with someone for when you wanted to change s-ttl. I'm flattered, though :) Rest assured I won't be cutting you out of the loop on the templates. I've solicited comment at Wikipedia:WikiProject Peerage for s-reg just now; hopefully both WikiProjects will react favorably to the templates, in which case I'll start adding them to articles on a large scale. Choess 05:43, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

On second thought, let me think about the modifications for Members of Parliament. It seems rather redundant to repeat the link to "Member of UK Parliament" for every district. It would make more sense to have a link to the UK House of Commons in s-par (which could have a switch like s-reg). That would involve refactoring s-ttl, though — removing the "district" parameter — so it'll take some consideration. Choess 22:24, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Could you explain a little further what you mean when you say that "some British peerage titles are noble while others are honorary"? For foreign kings with additional titles (say, the King of Naples and Count of Anjou), we can just use two different s-reg headers, one for each title. You're right about the issue of bicameral legislatures, of course. Maybe to keep the British succession boxes looking neat, we could link "Member" to the House of Commons and "District" to the constituency. Choess 06:19, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Hi, I found you from the category of Wikipedian genealogists. I wonder if you have heard of/been involved in any of the previous attempts at starting a genealogy wiki under the foundation. Seeing as you were in the category, I thought you may be interested in the new project proposal, Rodovid. This project is currently running at rodovid.org. I would greatly appreciate it if you could visit the site and give me your opinion of it. Any input at all will be useful. Thanks. --Bjwebb (talk) 10:35, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Hi. I'm doing a survey of Wikipedia editors as part of a class research project. It's quick, anonymous, and the data will be made available to the Wikipedia community later this month. Would you like to take part? More info here. Thanks! Nonplus 00:02, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Please see:

• Talk:Argyll
• Talk:Bute
• Talk:Ross (area)
• Talk:Moray (county)

--Mais oui! 21:16, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Bruce Wars in Ireland I've being doing some long-overdue edits to Edward Bruce, particularly under the headings "The Invasion of Ireland" and "Arrival and the Campaign of 1315". I began it because the original article was hopelessly wrong in many places, but am now wondering if what I am writing would be better suited as an article in its own right on the Irish Bruce wars? In any case, Edward desperatly needs a decent bio given his part in the First Scots War of Independence. Fergananim 20:42, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Good stuff. Be sure to leave a message for User:Mackensen, who's done a lot of succession boxes both for peers and MPs, and maybe leave something at Wikipedia:WikiProject Peerage, since they have rather extensive guidelines already for succession box formatting. No one at Wikipedia:WikiProject UK Parliament constituencies has responded at all to my queries, so I guess we have a free hand there for the time being. Wikipedia:WikiProject U.S. Congress already has Template:USRepSuccessionBox, Template:U.S. Senator box and Template:Incumbent U.S. Senator box, which may need to be integrated into your scheme.

BTW, you were saying something to me earlier about certain peerages being "honorary" and some not; could you clarify? Choess 22:19, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

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I've run across Template:Succession box3 whilst doing cleanup; it doesn't seem to be used anymore. Would it be all right to delete it? Mackensen (talk) 15:45, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Go to Special:Preferences and insert any formatting you want into "Nickname". Check "Raw signature" if you want to use formatting. —Cuiviénen (talk•contribs), Tuesday, 9 May 2006 @ 18:17 UTC

For example, my current signature text is: {{SUBST:User:Cuivienen/Signature}}<span style="font-size:85%;">, [[{{subst:CURRENTDAYNAME}}]], [[{{subst:CURRENTDAY}} {{subst:CURRENTMONTHNAME}}]] [[{{subst:CURRENTYEAR}}]] @ {{subst:CURRENTTIME}} [[UTC]]</span>''', and I modify the formatting of my signature itself at User:Cuivienen/Signature. Because I include the date and time in my signature, I sign with three tildes instead of four. —Cuiviénen (talk•contribs), Tuesday, 9 May 2006 @ 20:37 UTC

You're welcome :-) —Cuiviénen (talk•contribs), Tuesday, 9 May 2006 @ 21:29 UTC

"S-hon" will have to be changed. "Honorary positions would be things like Lord Lieutenancies, or Lord Warden of the Cinque Ports." — User:John Kenney. It's for official appointments which are essentially non-political and have no significant duties. "Peerage of X" is for hereditary titles, for which there's no such distinction. And Durham is in England, not Ireland, anyway. Choess 18:34, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Hello! I found your name through Template:S-start/Instructions. The Hochmeisters (Grand Masters) of the Teutonic Knights currently use a standard succession box (see Hermann von Salza for an example). User:Matthead recently created Template:Hochmeister to add Image:Den tyske ordens skjold.jpg to the box, but that attempt is incomplete and is not based on S-start. I liked the look of the Polish Wikipedia's Hochmeister succession boxes (pl:Szablon:Władca & pl:Szablon:Władca-Teuton), which I used as the basis for the creation of my own versions: User:Olessi/Template:Succession and User:Olessi/Template:Succession-Teutonic, which uses Image:Teuton flag.svg. These are not based on S-Start either.

While searching through Wikipedia, I found the S-Start/Instructions page which apparently should be the template for all succession boxes (which neither mine nor Matthead's comply with). Has it been decided somewhere that images should not be used in succession boxes? I have not made any succession boxes before, so this is essentially trial and error for me. What would be the best course of action here? Any assistance would be appreciated. Olessi 18:25, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your assistance and advice! Olessi 04:34, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Just to let you know, there is no "Template_howto:" namespace. Your page was created in article namespace and appears to be redundant with our pre-existing Template:S-start/Instructions, so it's been tagged for deletion. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me. :) ~Kylu (u|t) 04:23, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

I just noticed the excellent succession box series, and think that its use ought to become the standard across Wikipedia. However, if it is to become standard, it has to be comprehensive, which may not be the case. I have not seen one that I instinctively think is appropriate for positions within political parties, e.g. Leader of the Conservative Party, UMP presidential nominee, Chairman of the Democratic National Committee. If I'm wrong, and one template has designed for this sort of thing, I'll just shuffle back into the shadows. Otherwise, a separate template is worth considering. Bastin 16:12, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

I wasn't criticising the fundamental of using the succession boxes for party political positions, but rather their categorisation with s-off (were I to do it now, I'd use s-off, but only out of lack of a better one). Actually, I was just thinking in writing, so I haven't worked out exactly how frequently it would be used. Certainly, for many individuals that held two or more posts, it would be worthwhile: Beazley, Chirac, Dewey Gladstone, Henderson, Jackson, MacDonald, McLogan, Meighen, O'Brien, Peacock, Roosevelt, and hundreds of others around the world.

Thus, in the same mould as the other succession boxes, I suggest something like this:

|-style="text-align: center; background: #FFBF00;"

|align="center" colspan="3"|Party Political Offices

So, Ramsay MacDonald's succession boxes would look like:

Parliament of the United Kingdom
Preceded by J F L Rolleston	Member for Leicester 1906–1918	Succeeded by none
Preceded by John Edwards	Member for Aberavon 1922–1929	Succeeded by William George Cove
Preceded by Sidney Webb	Member for Seaham 1929–1935	Succeeded by Emanuel Shinwell
Political offices
Preceded by Herbert Henry Asquith	Leader of the Opposition 1922–1924	Succeeded by Stanley Baldwin
Preceded by Stanley Baldwin	Prime Minister of the United Kingdom 1924	Succeeded by Stanley Baldwin
	Leader of the House of Commons 1924
Preceded by The Marquess Curzon of Kedleston	Foreign Secretary 1924	Succeeded by Sir Austen Chamberlain
Preceded by Stanley Baldwin	Leader of the Opposition 1924–1929	Succeeded by Stanley Baldwin
Preceded by Stanley Baldwin	Prime Minister of the United Kingdom 1929–1935	Succeeded by Stanley Baldwin
	Leader of the House of Commons 1929–1935
Preceded by Stanley Baldwin	Lord President of the Council 1935–1937	Succeeded by The Viscount Halifax
Party Political Offices
Preceded by Founding Secretary	Labour Party Secretary 1900–1912	Succeeded by Arthur Henderson
Preceded by George Nicoll Barnes	Chairman of the Parliamentary Labour Party 1911–1914	Succeeded by Arthur Henderson
Preceded by John Robert Clynes	Leader of the British Labour Party 1922–1931	Succeeded by Arthur Henderson

Of course, one could change the title, the colour (it might be a bit bright), or the order in which it comes amongst other succession boxes, but I think that the idea of separating politics from government is good. Bastin 15:42, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

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I saw your succession box series, and tried to apply it to Gruffydd ap Llywelyn, an article that used a handwritten table at the time. However, due to rowspan issues, it didn't work quite right, and I had to insert an extra <tr> to make it work properly. Here is the result:

Preceded by Iago ab Idwal ap Meurig	King of Gwynedd 1039—1063	Succeeded by Bleddyn ap Cynfyn
	King of Powys 1039—1063
Preceded by Meurig ap Hywel	King of Gwent 1055—1063	Succeeded by Cadwgan ap Meurig
Preceded by Gruffydd ap Rhydderch	King of Glywysing 1055—1063
	King of Deheubarth 1055—1063	Succeeded by Maredudd ab Owain ab Edwin

It functions, but I don't think this is a satisfactory solution. Could you help? LittleDan^talk 15:09, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

It works, but I feel like it shouldn't have the <tr> in it, inserted manually. Maybe this is OK, though. LittleDan^talk 04:09, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

When I first read your message on my talk page I was like... what? I see what you're saying now, that you can add citations (references) to within a succession box. Very interesting. Thank you. On another note, are you deliberatly doing something on your user page where your picture flashes for a second then vanishes? At first I thought I was seeing things. Wjhonson 05:58, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

I like the new look of the succession boxes you're putting on the various Kings of Judah pages. However, I am confused about the characterization of the House of David as a "cadet branch" of the Tribe of Judah. --Eliyak T·C 22:46, 24 October 2006 (UTC)