User talk:Atsme/Archive 27

This is an archive of past discussions with User:Atsme. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

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I'm sort-of back, though I don't know for how long. Figured you'd want to know, since you seemed worried at talk that something may have happened to me. Nothing did, I just got really sick of WP and un-bookmarked it. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 16:43, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

Sigh of relief with full understanding. Suggestion - spend some time on Commons, and participate in the FPC submissions. ^{Atsme📞📧} 16:54, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

Probably some good advice, there. For what it's worth, the yes-it's-actually-in-my-will announcement on all my online accounts that would be forthcoming were I to die unexpectedly would likely cause quite a shitstorm, and leave most Wikipedians who like me too busy laughing in schadenfreude at a certain group to be too upset over it. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 17:03, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

Hello! Tryptofish has given you some delicious kale to go along with whatever else you have! You see, these things promote WikiLove and hopefully this has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by giving someone else some delicious kale! Enjoy! --Tryptofish (talk) 18:25, 27 June 2018 (UTC)

I had to look that up - recipe - ^{Atsme📞📧} 18:31, 27 June 2018 (UTC)

Considering that it came from me, you're lucky that it wasn't spirulina! --Tryptofish (talk) 18:33, 27 June 2018 (UTC)

• Just going to leave this here along with the note that I'm actually more of a Bacon guy, myself. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 19:03, 27 June 2018 (UTC)

I might, perhaps, have been thinking about a certain chicken sandwich instead of bacon. But there's no question that bacon makes kale taste better, and kale makes bacon more healthy. So here's to everyone coming together someday! --Tryptofish (talk) 20:41, 27 June 2018 (UTC)

Having actually eaten a dish made primarily of bacon & kale, I assure you that it is amazing. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 20:43, 27 June 2018 (UTC)

My obvious next question is...which one of you caters? I'm willing to give kale a try, but not on my own. I remember trying to cook venison on my own. 🤮 ^{Atsme📞📧} 20:45, 27 June 2018 (UTC)

I cook a lobster and pasta dish with kale and bell peppers sauteed into it (olive oil, no tomatoes). It's rather good, if I say so myself. But no catering. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:48, 27 June 2018 (UTC)

Uhm...careful about posting such material to my TP...it leaves my (talk page stalker) "wanting"...so on that note I'll ask...what if I cover your airfare & expenses to Bonaire? I have friends on-island who would be willing to help share the costs for a week of healthy food by an expert who understands the ins and outs of hippos and seahorses. ^{[FBDB] Atsme📞📧} 20:55, 27 June 2018 (UTC)

Like. I'm packing my bags! --Tryptofish (talk) 21:06, 27 June 2018 (UTC)

- listen to Hotel California while viewing the alluring mysteries of the island. You may have to supply the kale. ^{Atsme📞📧} 21:17, 27 June 2018 (UTC)

Please discuss in talk instead of continuing to edit information that is clearly contentious. I'll start a section. (And I'll try to invite the unregistered editor also involved but his or her IP address changes sometimes so I don't know if he or she will see my message.) ElKevbo (talk) 14:08, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

Hey Atsme, I just caught up on some of what has happened the past couple of days with the ARCA case and all. I just wanted to extend my condolences for the stress and lost sleep you experienced. I've lost a good deal of sleep myself over Wikipedia disputes and it's not fun. I realize a lot of it is probably coming across as being very personal. From my perspective it's not, and the most personal thing that MrX said was mostly complimentary:

Atsme seems to be a warm and affable person who is rarely uncivil, and who I believe is sincere in her participation in the project. She has made some outstanding contributions to building the encyclopedia in areas outside of American politics, and I have great respect for her for that. It seems though that she has an ideological blind spot which affects her objectivity, and manifests as large amounts of low signal-to-noise ratio commentary.

Anyway I know the topic ban hurts and I'm not trying to minimize that. But I encourage you to first, take some time to disengage, lower your stress level, and catch up on your sleep. Then when you're ready, review the complaint itself and identify what the problems were and you can do better to fix those problems in the future (assuming you want to appeal the topic ban at some point). I don't recommend trying to desysop Bishonen as I believe I saw some people suggesting you should. Bishonen's action was perfectly legal and defensible, and I can imagine myself having done something very similar myself if I had been reviewing the complaint. Anyway, not trying to pour salt in a fresh wound, just trying to dissuade you from following bad advice. Good luck and take care! ~Awilley (talk) 05:09, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

Thank you for the kind words, Awilley - they are much appreciated. I am taking some time off to get things sorted in my mind, and will eventually review each diff while trying to keep context and all the good advice in mind. Have an enjoyable weekend, and I'll do the same! ^{Atsme📞📧} 14:57, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

--Cameron₁₁₅₉₈ ^(Talk) 21:52, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

Can the notification bots be turned off or modified? I never had them myself. Wouldn't want you to get tripped up into doing something naughty.--MONGO (talk) 04:37, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

I forgot how to turn them off....^{Atsme📞📧} 04:53, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

This is a hell of a mess cause I don't even know how to turn them on!--MONGO (talk) 04:54, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

Here and remove your name from the list if you want. PackMecEng (talk) 04:58, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

Thank you, PME! ^{Atsme📞📧} 05:03, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

I noticed a now-archived thread about how to get rid of bot notices on one's talk page, and I can point out another method that can be used for instances where one cannot simply take one's name off of a list. By using {{bots}}, particularly with its allow or deny parameters, there is a lot of flexibility about what you can exclude. --Tryptofish (talk) 16:17, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

Is it easy to install? ^{Atsme📞📧} 16:24, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

Unless you want to do something really elaborate, yes. Basically, you just put the template at or somewhere around the top of your talk page (nothing is displayed by it). Here are some typical examples. (I'm leaving out the curly brackets so that I won't actually be installing anything.) If you just want to get rid of all bots, you can put nobots inside the double curly brackets, and that's it. If you want to get rid of everything except for one bot that you like, you can put bots|allow=Nicebot or, for two good bots, bots|allow=Nicebot,Goodbot, and so forth. Then, all bots except for those favored ones will be excluded. Conversely if you just want to get rid of a single pesky bot and allow all the other bots, you can use bots|deny=Badbot or bots|deny=Badbot,PeskyBot etc. --Tryptofish (talk) 16:35, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

A while back, I put this into use at User talk:EEng, where it's, um, not surprising that bots could do unwanted things, so if you dare to open an edit window of the top part of that talk page, you can see an example of it in use. --Tryptofish (talk) 16:40, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

I doubt Atsme is massochistic enough to do that. Pandora's box comes to mind... ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 16:44, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

As does Pandora's bot. --Tryptofish (talk) 16:45, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

More turbulence and a much bigger issue than paywalls....

• Board's statement "How the EU copyright proposal will hurt the web and Wikipedia" ^{Atsme📞📧} 14:47, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
  • This is truly important. I only found out about it yesterday, from something I saw on another editor's talk page. But this is a really big deal. Shamelessly canvassing,^[FBDB] I will point out to whoever might read here that there is a discussion at the Village Pump that is worth a look. --Tryptofish (talk) 16:15, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
  • The specific discussion is, I believe, this one, which starts with Jimbo urging everyone to read an article urging opposition to the law. FWIW, I agree completely with Jimbo that the law in question is a nightmare that should never be passed. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 16:22, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

It makes me think back to Project Accuracy, and the involvement of academia....the latter of which helps clear the way for WP as an "educational resource" but doing so would conflict with our allowance of commercial use and basically annuls the fair use educational exemption. "Commercial use" appears to be the primary flaw; i.e., the fact that Google and other commercial entities are allowed to use it in a capitalistic manner. Having said that, I will add that we don't know what part "commercial use" plays in WP's success (via donations), but in light of recent developments, it appears to be more of a liability than an asset. ^{Atsme📞📧} 21:09, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

Wikipedia should've gone on strike to protest it. You know, like they did with the SOPA blackout. SNAAAAKE!! (talk) 21:26, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

Category:Wikipedians on strike.Zigzig20s (talk) 07:59, 4 July 2018 (UTC)

You made some good points over on commons with respect to the reach of their copyright discussions. Honestly, I think commons should keep a couple of copyright lawyers on hand to help out in these situations. Right now, the level of ignorance of copyright law I see in editors making vociferous claims about copyright is staggering. And I'm by no means an expert myself. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 20:43, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

I'm beginning to think that Commons has turned into a loony bin. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:39, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

It's definitely a problem that I've tried to draw attention to, but oh well. We're losing valuable images because of all the wikilawyering and the blatant overstepping of boundaries that go well beyond our responsibility as volunteers - pure bossyism - but at the same I commend those volunteers who keep a close eye on copy vios. ^{Atsme📞📧} 23:13, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

• Update - I just found the following: public domain image, and NASA official declaration. Celestial objects are public domain. ^{Atsme📞📧} 03:49, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

It would be good to tell the editors at the Tesla page about that. --Tryptofish (talk) 17:12, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

I tried to and my participation in that discussion ended here. This is one of those times when it's best to stop arguing and just let them be wrong. ^{Atsme📞📧} 18:20, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

Your efforts have not gone unnoticed. nagualdesign 18:39, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

Oh, sorry, I should have been clearer. Yes, Commons is a losing battle. What I meant was: Talk:Elon Musk's Tesla Roadster#RfC about the infobox image, here in the relatively sane part of the world. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:44, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

-- ψλ ● ✉ ✓ 02:16, 11 July 2018 (UTC)

-Serialjoepsycho- (talk) 02:17, 15 July 2018 (UTC)

Couldn't leave all that blank space, so I'll start a discussion here. I'm sure my (talk page stalker) will think of something to add. ^{Atsme📞📧} 19:07, 12 July 2018 (UTC)

Hello! PackMecEng (talk) 19:48, 12 July 2018 (UTC)

Thx, PME!! I just tweaked it ever so slightly. ^{Atsme📞📧} 20:49, 12 July 2018 (UTC)

Word! Looks good now. PackMecEng (talk) 21:56, 12 July 2018 (UTC)

A file that you uploaded or altered, File:Frog smile.gif, has been listed at Wikipedia:Files for discussion. Please see the discussion to see why it has been listed (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry). Feel free to add your opinion on the matter below the nomination. Thank you. —innotata 08:34, 12 July 2018 (UTC)

Thought maybe this chart might serve as a handy reference for questionable images. ^{Atsme📞📧} 17:47, 12 July 2018 (UTC)

That's what happens when you kiss a frog. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:09, 12 July 2018 (UTC)

It all depends on where you kiss it. ^{Atsme📞📧} 19:27, 12 July 2018 (UTC)

Great answer, and I won't even try to top it! --Tryptofish (talk) 19:32, 12 July 2018 (UTC)

In that case, I'll just add...it's always better if you kiss a frog in Texas. 😂 ^{Atsme📞📧} 20:06, 12 July 2018 (UTC)

Is this something about the frogs being bigger there? --Tryptofish (talk) 20:18, 12 July 2018 (UTC)

Not touching that with a 10ft tadpole. ^{Atsme📞📧} 20:20, 12 July 2018 (UTC)

Applause! --Tryptofish (talk) 20:21, 12 July 2018 (UTC)

👏👏👏 (notice the new template JFG made for me) ^{Atsme📞📧} 20:32, 12 July 2018 (UTC)

I'm somehow reminded that Stalin once made a multi (vinyl) disc recording of a very long speech that he made, and one side of one of those discs was just applause. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:36, 12 July 2018 (UTC)

Well, I'm sure it'll be needed quite often. And it can always be used for other editors, should the need ever arise. nagualdesign 20:38, 12 July 2018 (UTC)

But wait - there's more!! ....my ranch guineas get the credit for the vocals - JFG gets credit for making the template - all I did was hold the recorder, and managed to get the audio uploaded to Commons without incident. ^{Atsme📞📧} 20:32, 12 July 2018 (UTC)

Hey, I just saw your appeal and wanted to offer a bit of advice. You are making your appeal about the conduct of other people. It needs to be about you. Do you understand why people thought you should be topic banned? What was the problem, in your own words? What specifically have you done to remedy the problem? That kind of stuff. ~Awilley (talk) 19:58, 9 August 2018 (UTC)

Thank you, Awilley, as you know (and as I've expressed in the past), I appreciate your input and hold you high regard. ^{Atsme📞📧} 23:25, 9 August 2018 (UTC)

• Atsme, I meant to ping you at the ARCA request, but forgot, and a talk page message is probably more appropriate anyway. You may want to read my comments there and decide whether you want to try again. Not sure if they'll let you, but you could ask. I've suggested there that you be sanctioned for a topic ban violation, but you can either roll the dice and see if I'm wrong, or see if they'll let you withdraw quickly with no sanction. --Floquenbeam (talk) 21:25, 9 August 2018 (UTC)

No problem, Floquenbeam. I read WP:TBAN and for the life of me, can't find such a violation. Would you be so kind as to provide a link? I certainly would not intentionally do anything to violate my TB or any WP:PAG. Thank you for your expressing your concerns. ^{Atsme📞📧} 23:25, 9 August 2018 (UTC)

• That's not an "OK, I may have said a few things I shouldn't have, but time served" appeal, that's ...
  Have you been to the Iowa State Fair? Spend some time around there and maybe try a different appeal later. power~enwiki (π, ν) 02:30, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

Not sure what you want me to do here; you asked me a question, then archived the section. Let me know if you still want me to explain here. Otherwise, just delete this and I'll get the message. --Floquenbeam (talk) 14:32, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

I pinged you from ARCA, so please respond to me there, not here. ^{Atsme📞📧} 17:34, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

"Wrong venue"? You asked me the question here. I've said my piece there, I don't have the time or desire to engage further. It looks like your request will just get rejected, instead of sanctioned, so my view doesn't really need clarification anymore anyway. --Floquenbeam (talk) 18:12, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

My apologies - I pinged you from 2 different places - once at the appeal, and once here when I asked you for the link, which you could have provided at your TP and pinged me. My archiving the former discussion was not because of you - it was about avoiding a pile-on. I guess you haven't experienced my TP during one of those "lively episodes". ^{Atsme📞📧} 19:07, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

Hi Atsme, the Arbitration Committee has closed your appeal at ARCA as withdrawn and it has been archived here.

Since you have withdrawn your appeal, the Committee has decided that you may appeal again in six months. If your appeal is based on the validity of the sanction, it must be made at ARCA. If your appeal is based on the sanction no longer being necessary, it may be made at AE, AN, or ARCA.

For the Arbitration Committee, Kevin (aka L235 · t · c) 21:41, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

	Karma needs help sometimes...
	Smudge away the negativity and maybe karma will visit more expediently. Worth a try, right?! -- ψλ ● ✉ ✓ 22:35, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

Thank you, Winkelvi - the sage reminded me of Wednesday night's episode of Yellowstone. It's bizarre how closely I can relate to that series - I provided the cattle and helped the director with the cutting horse scenes for Dallas (1978 TV series) - yet at the same time, I can relate equally to The Sopranos, Sea Hunt, and The Undersea World of Jacques Cousteau. What a roller coaster ride my life has been, but based on what I've seen on your user page, my life has to be a big yawn for you. Thank you for your service, sir. My nephew was career Navy - Chief Petty Officer with the Admiral's Fleet. ^{Atsme📞📧} 23:09, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

I'm enjoying Kevin Costner's latest venture on television, as well. Your life doesn't look boring to me in the least. Everyone has something to offer the world in real life and it looks like you've been doing that for quite some time. Glad to see your nephew was a swabbie, too. Hope his life post-Navy has been full of fair winds and following seas. -- ψλ ● ✉ ✓ 23:17, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

Actually, plenty of fair winds - he's a fishing guide in Key West (was stationed there for years). He's a Gulf War survivor - had to be air lifted back to the US after exposure to some kind of chemical they were unable to id. He spent quite a bit of time at South Texas Medical Center in San Antonio - we damn near lost him. On a brighter note - as a fishing guide, he took ole Si Robertson out on one of his charters. He said that was quite the adventure!! 😁 Unfortunately, 2017 brought Hurricane Irma which hit the Keys pretty hard - we forced him to evacuate, and it's a good thing he listened. He has since recovered from all the damage, and is staying busy doing more catching, than fishing. ^{Atsme📞📧} 23:36, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

I really feel for your nephew, and I'm glad he got better. We (I mean the US) sure do ask a lot of those who serve. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:28, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

(reposting from archives since I can't undo the edit)

Atsme, I noticed this post of yours with surprise. The venue, "New pages patrol", is not exactly the natural port of call for questioning articles that are over a year old, for a start. You obviously found those articles, all created by Snooganssnoogans, through either my contributions[1][2] or Winkelvi's,[3][4][5][6][7][8] and decided to "help". If I see you mounting a two-pronged attack along with Winkelvi again, for the purpose of supporting him in distressing an editor he doesn't like (or whatever the problem is — I don't know why Winkelvi has it in so for Snooganssnoogans), I will block you both for harassment. I understand that you're not in a good place atm, I sympathize up to a point, but you don't get to relieve your feelings by persecuting others, or by bolstering Winkelvi's persecution, under cover of an innocent-sounding inquiry. Try smudging away the negativity. Bishonen | talk 11:14, 12 August 2018 (UTC).

Your aspersions, misinterpretations and repeated displays of intimidation and ill-will toward me is open persecution, Bishonen. You have distressed me beyond reproach, and have again overstepped your boundaries as an involved administrator. Stop your retaliation and pursuit to cause me further harm. I have done nothing wrong or disruptive. You are not welcome on my TP unless you are here to apologize to me for the harm you have already caused. ^{Atsme📞📧} 13:02, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

I can barely believe what I'm seeing. -- ψλ ● ✉ ✓ 16:09, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

Responding to this, which got archived as I was trying to write a comment, Atsme probably saw themselves as just lending a helping hand to a friend, and helping "Karma" out along the way. Unfortunately that was also engaging in the kind of tribalism that admins like Bishonen are sick of seeing every day on Wikipedia. Bishonen was correct in asking you to stop, and there were no "aspersions" in Bishonen's statement, which included evidence. Speaking of "aspersions" it's probably not a good idea to accuse Bishonen of being an "involved admin" without evidence. Asking an admin not to post on your talk page can't prevent them from interacting with you here in an administrative capacity. If you really think you have a case of involved admin abuse the proper forum is Arbcom. (I'm not recommending that course of action for you based on the quality of evidence you submitted to them last week.) That's all. ~Awilley (talk) 16:37, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

Please feel free to one-click archive this or just remove it after you read it. ~Awilley (talk) 16:40, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

Why does Barbara Streisand come to mind? To begin, this drama & disruption was wrongfully brought upon me. Those articles are not and should not have been about my behavior simply because I exchanged a bit of humor with Winkelvi. This is about a content issue, not a behavioral issue, and there happens to be a simple solution without all the drama or warning over a big fat nothing. All that is required is for editors to establish notability per Wikipedia:Notability_(people). It doesn't matter how I came across those articles anymore than it matters how Bishonen came to find out about me seeking help at NPP. As a qualified reviewer, I was simply doing my job and I shouldn't have to be warned for that based on an unfounded conspiracy theory. I went to NPP where there are uninvolved experienced editors who deal with notability issues on a regular basis. I couldn't think of better place to seek help for a determination, and to quietly resolve the issue without all this drama. If I had found those articles to be clearly notable, I would have simply removed the tags myself. Did either of you determine that the articles passed the notability requirements, or did you bother to look for RS, or don't admins do that anymore? ^{Atsme📞📧} 19:31, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

Please don't get angry at me for commenting here, and please take this as coming from a friend. You do important work at NPP, and I think an easy way for you to ward off any further aggravation for yourself would be to just pass by any pages that were started by any of the editors from the political disputes; just leave those for someone, anyone, else to patrol. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:24, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

Disappointed, not angry. You probably already know that I disagree with your conclusions about this entire clusterfrap. The fact that my questions to an arb have remained unanswered speaks volumes about the whole process. This is not what WP is supposed to represent....but hey...I've long since learned...time wounds all heals...^{oops, wrong one 18:33, 13 August 2018 (UTC)}...time heals all wounds. ^{Atsme📞📧} 18:30, 13 August 2018 (UTC)

Fair enough. Above all, I trust we are still friends, because that's what really matters. Friends can of course disagree about things. And I think time can wound all heels. Especially when the heels get high. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:04, 13 August 2018 (UTC)

Of course...but I question your use of "when the heels get high" because that can have so many different meanings like 👠 💃 ...and so on. ^{Atsme📞📧} 19:42, 13 August 2018 (UTC)

I meant all of those simultaneously. To recreate my (possibly demented) thought process: I started with heel as in "rascal", but then it occurred to me that the footware can be uncomfortable, and then my thoughts went on to inhalation... now, I forgot, what was I talking about? --Tryptofish (talk) 20:00, 13 August 2018 (UTC)

Try Prevagen, if you don't consider it a form of cannibalism. (I first wrote Prevacid which is no stranger in the medicine cabinet). Back on point - heels...it stirred a memory about a fish....heel fish, or toe fish...no wait...wrong part of the foot...and then I started thinking from a woman's perspective and decided it was best to stop right there. The ambiguity never ends. ^{Atsme📞📧} 20:35, 13 August 2018 (UTC)

"The fact that my questions to an arb have remained unanswered speaks volumes about the whole process." Oh FGS. No, the fact that Newyorkbrad hasn't replied to your question doesn't speak any volumes, or speak above a whisper at all. NYB doesn't edit that frequently. Nobody's obliged to go online and edit Wikipedia more frequently than they want to, or than their other obligations in life permit. Why don't you check a person's contributions before you talk like that? Are you actively working on becoming impossible to take seriously? One would think so, from the way you threw a thesaurus at me above, in preference to engaging with anything I'd said. Though I liked the "you have distressed me beyond reproach" bit. Shouldn't that be a good thing? Bishonen | talk 21:19, 13 August 2018 (UTC).

Hey Bish, you know I think very highly of you, I really do, but maybe we're at the point where you should only comment here for the purposes of taking an administrative action (which I hope of course won't be necessary). Otherwise, it's just exacerbating things. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:49, 13 August 2018 (UTC)

Tryptofish, some allegations need to be answered, unfortunately. These charges are outrageous, as are the insinuations. Drmies (talk) 01:38, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

Drmies, I hope you're referring to the following allegations against me: "...you don't get to relieve your feelings by persecuting others, or by bolstering Winkelvi's persecution, under cover of an innocent-sounding inquiry." ^{Atsme📞📧} 01:43, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

I am referring to your personal attacks on Bishonen. Distression is under your own control. That's all I have to say right now--take care Atsme. Drmies (talk) 01:51, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

Your remarks, Atsme, can also be construed as a personal attack on Newyorkbrad, who has only made 1 minor edit in three plus days. I am sure that Brad will respond with thoughtfulness when he returns to active editing. Perhaps you might want to dial things down a bit. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 02:05, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

You must mean misconstrued because that is what it would be, Cullen. For one thing, I never mentioned NYB's name, so how do you know I was referring to him, and not an email, or something in my appeal? I've done nothing to warrant this kind of negative attention. It's late, I'm tired, and I'm sure there are plenty of other places on the pedia where 3 administrators can be spending their time productively instead of making unwarranted threats against me. Here's a link WP:ADMINACCT - enjoy the read before you go to bed - and sweet dreams! ^{Atsme📞📧} 03:46, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

I looked up the meaning of CYA – and got a laugh out of it! --Tryptofish (talk) 20:26, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

Is that you in the photo about DS you just put on your user page? Hot! --Tryptofish (talk) 15:58, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

That may explain why I subconsciously picked it, but now that you mention it, I do see a slight resemblance when compared to my picture with Steven.... ^{Atsme📞📧} 16:09, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 15:47, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

Cheers!!! ^{Atsme📞📧} 13:50, 18 August 2018 (UTC)

Also Knights of the Round Table which where I mostly just merged 17 small articles. --SNAAAAKE!! (talk) 18:49, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

SNAAAAKE!!, I've asked Nikkimaria to take a look and help prep for GAC. She's an excellent peer reviewer for both GA & FA. If it passes her scrutiny, it will pass anything! ^{Atsme📞📧} 02:37, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

I mean, Knights is more like a stub and I just wanted it copyedited, and most of all Breunor's section as tagged. Actually would like to see what needs references or expansions/clarifications too, as separate articles they've been not actually worked on since the 2000s and I only worked on them just to a limited degree now. --SNAAAAKE!! (talk) 05:53, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

Working on it....^{Atsme📞📧} 13:05, 19 August 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for taking time to explain current issues with lifer admins, and thanks for closing discussion with Jimbo before more admins circled in to disrespect any users who might agree with your research. I think the environment is worse than ever, so it was an awakening to see Jimbo unaware of the admin problems today. Now more than ever, I realize "we are Wikipedia" and what we accomplish is all that will be done in this era.

If Wikipedia dwindles due to lack of modern leadership, then what will matter is the quality of the vital articles; and no end-game archive-pedia will have the stomach to maintain +5 million articles on "cruft" info-mush, as if people would want 5,000 articles on racehorses who only finished in 7th place. Beyond the proposed 50,000 Level-5 wp:VITAL articles, perhaps only 200,000 pages could be expected to matter, and we must focus on vital articles because few people have that vision to avoid the endless distractions of minor pages.

For example, before cars and trucks, transportation was provided by horses, donkeys, burrows, oxen, or dogsleds (etc.), and two hundred vital pages could be expanded also about wagons, carriages, stagecoaches, pony express, plows, grist mills, etc. Many people would likely read a page about "Race horse training methods" or comparisons of Man o' War with Secretariat, or explain Seabiscuit trained by punishment/reward system, etc. So the idea is to try to avoid relatively minor pages. -Wikid77 (talk) 04:34, 18 August 2018 (UTC)

Wikid77 - I found it interesting that we are encouraged to cite academic sources, which I did regarding that study (and there are many more), yet when such a source doesn’t align with a particular POV or the OR that supports it, your (mine) RS and “empirical views” are considered worthless. So why did the WMF bother to conduct the most recent survey regarding a similar topic not that long ago? Was it to see how many editors agree with their views rather than to give us hope for change? ^{Atsme📞📧} 14:07, 18 August 2018 (UTC)

There seem to be unusual delays in WMF activities, where some plan will seem dropped, and then 10 months later, boom, there is a concrete result after all. I think we need to talk directly with more WMF people, or Arbcom members who show interest in various topics which Jimbo doesn't see. For example, when the complex wp:Scribunto/Lua script, for faster templates, was first installed in early 2013, I then mentioned it was unusually (very) slow for tiny Lua Module functions, and a WMF wp:developer responded within days how he found a bottleneck to fix as 2x faster, and a mere 2 weeks later, the official Lua release ran 2x faster as promised(!).

Just recently, the developers have installed a weave merge for the diff action, and now we can move paragraphs across a page up/down over 20 paragraphs away, and the weave-diff will still show which words have changed, even when a paragraph is moved. It is getting harder for hack-edits to hide when text is moved, and the vandalism patrollers can pinpoint false text when inserted inside large paragraphs, as to directly revert false data. For example, someone could alter vital article "Pneumonia" to move paragraphs and insert false advice to try "chain-smoking to use smoke to kill the germs" and a diff could pinpoint to remove the false text.

Another issue was Arbcom almost ready to forbid the forcing of dashes into words where hyphens have been for over 100 years, such as the "Mason-Dixon Line" (or "Michelson-Morley experiment"), but no one talked to them as supportive of a hyphen/dash study. The current developers are helping Wikipedia, and some Arbcom seem to want to help more. I guess what I'm saying is: we need to find better ways for the tail to wag the dog, now that you have confirmed that is how the system is working. -Wikid77 (talk) 15:48, 18 August 2018 (UTC)

What I'd like to see is the ability to click on a paragraph or sentence and get a pop-up window that provides the edit history of that paragraph and/or selection - including the user's name & date when the last edit was made to the selected text. I wonder if weave merge could be the foundation for making that happen, or if it will require something entirely different....^{Atsme📞📧} 16:16, 18 August 2018 (UTC)

See thread (below): "#Wikiblame versus line-author tracking". -Wikid77 (talk) 11:32, 19 August 2018 (UTC)

That would be amazing, especially for articles under consensus required. Right now it is a pain in the rear to find when something was added. PackMecEng (talk) 16:19, 18 August 2018 (UTC)

I'm sure there are complications that I haven't thought of, but yes, that's a very interesting idea. Every year, the WMF developers have a big RfC-like discussion at meta, where they invite suggestions for technical innovations, so it might be worth proposing it there. (Although it tends to become a bit testy when editors from smaller wikis object that en-Wiki gets too much attention.) --Tryptofish (talk) 18:36, 18 August 2018 (UTC)

The wp:developers have discussed storing each line of a page with internal linenumbers, and line-author history could be stored as well. Currently, the wp:Wikiblame tool (run) can be used to find a revision where a phrase was added into a page, but results might be confusing if the phrase was added in several portions of the page.

The difficulty of line-author tracking would likely deter such a feature, but because the developers have spent years developing the wp:VE visual editor (plus template-editing), then the storage of lines with line-revision history might be a feature they would consider, and possibly already exists from storage systems which handle avionics software to track each line of source code back to requirements authorization documents plus related test cases. -Wikid77 (talk) 11:32, 19 August 2018 (UTC)

Wow - as long as I’ve been here, I didn’t know that tool existed. Actually, never had to use it before but things have changed on our beloved pedia and I don’t think it’s for the better. Perhaps if we could get something done about it, we will start seeing more FA than coatracks. ^{Atsme📞📧} 13:10, 19 August 2018 (UTC)

Hi there. Was it you who volunteered to be Snake's mentor? Are you still doing that? If so, I wanted to be fair and give you a shot to intervene before escalating things. He has made repeated long, aggressive, accusatory messages on my talk page, and has refused to stop. Are you able to get through to him any better? Because it's like he doesn't even read what I'm saying, and he's not making any sense. Sergecross73 msg me 14:08, 20 August 2018 (UTC)

People are pinging me to intervene at the AFD as well, another place where his comments are getting disruptive and off-topic. Sergecross73 msg me 15:09, 20 August 2018 (UTC)

My apologies for the late reply,Sergecross73. I am traveling for the next 10 days so my internet time will be limited. I will look into the issue to see if there is anything I can do to help. ^{Atsme📞📧} 18:09, 20 August 2018 (UTC)

I advise you not to go there. This is an article deleted two years ago, righteously. The link you just added to MH's talk page is an absolutely classic red flag for a group of quacks. The problem with "ancestral health" is that it is a walled garden of self-reinforcing True Believers, a bunch of people out looking for evidence to support what they believe to be true, not seeking to test and falsify their beliefs. This is known as pathological science or (less formally) as policy-based evidence making. The fact that MH appears unable to get over the deletion of one article, even two years later, is really his problem, not anyone else's, and I really do urge you not to get involved. It is difficult for an outsider to spot the difference between legitimate medical inquiry and quackery, and you've had trouble with this in the past. Guy (Help!) 07:50, 3 September 2018 (UTC)

Ok - I was just trying to help a fellow editor - but now that you're here, can we please clear something up once and for all regarding the unjustified hot brand that was affixed to my....uhm, reputation? Read the section at the top of my TP titled "To include it in a BLP, or not??" because that exchange sums up what my position was in the past, what it has always been throughout my longtime career, and what it is today. Make no mistake, I am a pragmatic writer, not an advocate. Your recollection, "you've had trouble with this in the past", is correct but misleading. I was not the one creating the problems; rather, I was the one trying to fix them but I suppose that depends on one's perspective. What I do know is that in exchange for my good faith efforts, I was "punished", beginning with an attack by 3 disruptive editors on the very first essay, WP:AVDUCK, I created and co-authored. My reward for filing that case at ANI was an unwarranted boomerang and a pile-on by what felt like a merciless mobocracy - keeping in mind that not one diff was presented to support any of the aspersions - but I'm not going to re-litigate that nightmare or the COINoscopy that occurred at the same time - I just want it all to go away. I can say with certainty that 2015 taught me some valuable lessons about the WP community, the skeptic movement and what topic areas and editors to avoid. Nevertheless, all the misconceptions and aspersions that were cast against me have not been put to rest, and I want it to stop. My block log was wrongfully tarnished as was my reputation, and while I am unable to clear my block log (but remain cautiously optimistic), I can provide the necessary diffs that will substantiate my claims. I find it rather hypocritical that editors are expected to move-on, just forgive and forget, while their block log serves as a constant reminder. Back on point - regarding the trouble you referred to above - my position is quite evident in my final attempts to change that particular BLP from a WP:POV coatrack to an encyclopedic article as demonstrated in this Feb 9 2015 diff. The section I asked you to read at the top of my TP further supports that position. I will also add that I'm hard-pressed to disagree with MH's comment about our broken system. ^{Atsme📞📧} 17:38, 3 September 2018 (UTC)

Re your comment on Jimbotalk, note "if so, then". It was not so. Don't take this personally. You know I think you are a nice person, but I believe that leads you to be less skeptical than you should be in some areas.

I am specifically not interested in relitigating the Griffin case, that's settled and we've all moved on. I was reminding you of it because your zeal for fairness let you to make a bad judgment call about a particularly despicable form of medical fraud. That's a lesson I thoguth you'd internalised.

Also: AVDUCKS is the worst thing you have ever done on Wikipedia. It is so close to the "shill gambit" that it could have been written by an antivaxer or a homeopathist. Guy (Help!) 19:36, 4 September 2018 (UTC)

Well, that ridiculous comment should arouse a level of curiosity that will peak the viewer stats. 😳 ^{Atsme📞📧} 19:53, 4 September 2018 (UTC)

I, MONGO, say all ills can be cured with a half dozen top shelf margaritas. Sure works for me!--MONGO (talk) 19:55, 4 September 2018 (UTC)

Is there anything I can do to help with this disagreement? (And please save a margarita for me!) --Tryptofish (talk) 19:57, 4 September 2018 (UTC)

Yes, Tryp - you can bring the margarita mix. 🍸 ^{Atsme📞📧} 20:01, 4 September 2018 (UTC)