Talk:VRT 1

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was moved to Eén, per WP:MOS-TM. Aervanath (talk) 16:10, 14 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Één → Eén — Correct brand name --Pdedecker (talk) 18:46, 5 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Copied from WP:RM. Question: Is the first letter lowercase? 199.125.109.88 (talk) 19:54, 5 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Any evidence? Dekimasuよ! 11:38, 6 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

When the Dutch word één meaning "one" (written sometimes this way to distinguish it from the indefinite article "een") is written with a capital letter (for example at the beginning of a sentence), the accent on the first "E" is usually dropped. If the article title is kept in lowercase, as it currently is, the accent must be kept. The question is: should the article title be lowercased? The logo of the corporation clearly is all lower case, but on its website the company uses Eén in running text, with a capital letter as you would expect for a proper name. Just as Macy's logo is all lower case but the name itself is written with a capital letter, and we do not lowercase the article title. Also on the Dutch Wikipedia the article title is Eén. :wimdw: 14:43, 6 June 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wimdw (talk • contribs)

Then I support this move, because it appears to be the option that's most compatible with WP:MOS-TM. Dekimasuよ! 11:23, 7 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment the logo has an accent on the first "e" and regardless of the rules of Dutch grammar, this isn't the Dutch encyclopedia. 70.29.208.129 (talk) 06:09, 7 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  As the example given above of "Macy's" versus the spelling "macy*s" in Macy's logo shows, the logo is not decisive. See also MOS:TM.  --Lambiam 16:42, 7 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • MOS:TM doesn't apply in this case (accent), since it isn't decoration. And this isn't the Dutch Wikipedia. 70.29.208.129 (talk) 03:58, 8 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• So... how about we strip the accents from both e's, then we can be sure it's something that is ASCII compatible, and not affected by the rules of a foreign grammer set. 70.29.208.129 (talk) 06:09, 7 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  Then we can also be sure we violate the main rule of the Naming conventions policy: Use the most easily recognized name. In any case, Een is already taken.  --Lambiam 16:42, 7 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  Since an article already exists there... and at EEN... I no longer have a favoured title to use. However, I still do not think the rules of Dutch grammar should affect the choice of titles used, whatever title is chosen. 70.29.208.129 (talk) 04:01, 8 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose. Article is already using {{lowercase}}, so the correct title is één. 199.125.109.135 (talk) 01:57, 9 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  But the article is incorrectly using {{lowercase}}. First, there is good reason to think the name of the company is Eén, since that is what they appear to use themselves in writing. The version één only occurs in the logo. The article title should be the company name, not its logo. Compare the company name Macy's with the logo macy*s. Second, even if the "official" name is with a lower case – which I believe it is not – the use of {{lowercase}} here is in contravention of MOS:TM, which states all of the following:

  • Capitalize trademarks, as with proper names.
  • Follow standard English text formatting and capitalization rules even if the trademark owner considers nonstandard formatting "official".
  • Trademarks rendered without any capitals are always capitalized.

  --Lambiam 19:44, 11 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • All you've done is proven that it should remain where it is, at Één, and not be moved at all. Your quote of MOS:TM doesn't make sense, since "*" is not part of the language while "é" is. MOS:TM says to capitalize the first letter and leave the others uncapitalized, so the current title is correct. Your argument is solely based on Non-English grammar, which violates WP:UE. 70.29.210.174 (talk) 03:22, 12 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

    My quote of MOS:TM has nothing to do with "*", and neither has the issue at hand here, so why do you bring that in? The issue I addressed in my reply above is about lower case versus upper case, and more specifically the premise of 199's argument above, which goes like "Article is already using {{lowercase}}, so the correct title is één". As I have shown, the use of {{lowercase}} for the article is inappropriate, and since it is inappropriate, that argument has no merit: its premise is based on an incorrect assumption (that lowercase is appropriate here), while its conclusion is in contravention of MOS:TM. The question that remains then is whether the most appropriate title is "Één", as it is now, or "Eén", as proposed. Your reaction does not address that question at all. The rules of English grammar have nothing to say about the spelling of brand names. WP:UE is, in fact, not about grammar at all; it states, in a nutshell: "Use the most commonly used English version of the name of the subject as the title of the article". Ignore the logo; it is just a graphic that does not tell us the name of the TV station. Do you have any indication that "Één" is a more commonly used English version of the name of this TV station than "Eén"? If not, your appeal to WP:UE has no merit either.  --Lambiam 10:23, 13 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved DrStrauss talk 09:22, 28 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Één → Eén – I'm not sure if this is still the case, but it seems like Eén is correct branding while Één is used for stylish purposes. Also see MOS:TM John123521 (Talk-Contib.) RA 03:07, 21 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose see logo In ictu oculi (talk) 10:19, 21 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• "één" is a Dutch spelling to show when the word "een" is pronounced with its full value "ēn" and means "one", rather than being pronounced "ǝn" or "ṇ" and meaning "a(n)". Anthony Appleyard (talk) 21:21, 22 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.