Help talk:Contents/Archive 7

This is an archive of past discussions about Help:Contents. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 1

←

Archive 5

Archive 6

Archive 7

Is this page semi protected or fully protected? 70.27.31.53 (talk) 00:58, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

Semi -- John of Reading (talk) 06:49, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

I'd like to make the following changes to streamline the headings on this page:

1. I want info about browsing or searching » I want to read or find an article
2. I want to edit Wikipedia » I want to edit an article

I think both speak for themselves, but I can elaborate on my reasoning if necessary.—Neil P. Quinn (talk) 20:16, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

Support --Moxy (talk) 07:29, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

Sounds fine to me. the wub "?!" 12:06, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

Support sounds better if anything. --Mrjulesd (talk) 12:30, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

• Okay, thanks, I'll go ahead and make the changes.—Neil P. Quinn (talk) 20:21, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

This edit request to Help:Contents has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Bisinh (talk) 13:56, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

Not done: as you have not requested a change, but I suspect you are in the wrong place, as this page is only to discuss improvements to Help:Contents.
If you want to suggest a change, please request this in the form "Please replace XXX with YYY" or "Please add ZZZ between PPP and QQQ".
Given the nature of this page, you will also need to reach consensus before any significant changes are implemented. - Arjayay (talk) 14:40, 5 February 2015

hi im tring to delete my user but there is no page on it does this mean i cannot delete my user or have you just not added it yet

Youtubelover116 (talk) 17:30, 20 March 2015 (UTC)youtubelover116Youtubelover116 (talk) 17:30, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

• It is not possible to delete user accounts .. see Wikipedia:Username policy#Deleting and merging accounts. That said pages can be deleted see WP:G7 -- Moxy (talk) 17:34, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

This is a proposal for an expansion of the Help:Contents page with elements from the Help Menu.

Permanent link of proposed change to Help:Contents:

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Help:Contents/sandbox&oldid=661111846

Permanent comparison of above with present Help:Contents:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:ComparePages?page1=Help%3AContents%2Fsandbox&rev1=661111846&page2=Help%3AContents&rev2=660916607&action=&diffonly=&unhide=

Q. Why do this?

A. These are my reasons for proposing this change:

(a) The Help Menu is an under-utilised resource. The Help:Contents page get approximately 50X the amount of traffic as Help:Contents/Browse. So only one in 50 people notices the link to the Main Menu, and decides to follow it. I think it is a shame, as many of the links could be helpful, but they may never even be noticed let alone utilised.

(b) It would cut down on confusion. The "main help page" being separate from the Help Menu is in my view confusing, and what at least to me at first. While this doesn't remove the Help Menu it down much to explain it in terms of the main help page.

(c) If the help menu is not noticed or followed, where is the next continuation of help exploration? It is the very complicated help and rule navboxes at the bottom. I think if people follow the help menu links instead, the provided links are less confusing and off-putting.

(d) Possible elimination of the help menu, although it does retain some elements not in this design.

Views would be appreciated. --Jules (Mrjulesd) 15:46, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

• Support – nice way to make a useful resource visible. It used to be the Help:Contents page, and for good reason: it's the main help menu page (that is, the top page of the multi-page help menu system). The Transhumanist 03:42, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

• Thanks for your comments. Which is the top-level is a little confusing, as Help:Contents has a simpler url than Help:Contents/Browse, and also Help:Contents is accessed from the permanent left page column. But this should help to make things a bit simpler. --Jules (Mrjulesd) 10:42, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

• Support - all looks good to me....I say go for it....after a few more comments. -- Moxy (talk) 14:52, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

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Kumachan1 (talk) 11:16, 24 May 2015 (UTC) HelpInsert non-formatted text he—re

 Not done as you have not requested a specific change, but I suspect you are in the wrong place, as this page is only to discuss improvements to Help:Contents.
If you want to suggest a change, please request this in the form "Please replace XXX with YYY" or "Please add ZZZ between PPP and QQQ".
Given the nature of this page, you will also need to reach consensus before any significant changes are implemented. - Arjayay (talk) 12:18, 24 May 2015 (UTC)

Hi, I'm notifying you of a discussion because The Wikipedia Adventure is included in Help:Contents and it has been nominated for deletion. You can comment here: Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion/Wikipedia:The_Wikipedia_Adventure_(2nd_nomination). Cheers, Jake Ocaasi ^{t | c} 15:59, 30 May 2015 (UTC)

This edit request to Help:Contents has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Momir Petković (born 21 July 1953) is a Serbian Olympic wrestling champion- Should say "a Yugoslav Olympic wrestling champion" 86.15.37.255 (talk) 17:24, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

 Not done as you are in the wrong place, since this page is only to discuss improvements to Help:Contents.
If you want to suggest a change, please request this on the talk page of the relevant article in the form "Please replace XXX with YYY" or "Please add ZZZ between PPP and QQQ".
Please also cite reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to, or changed in, any article. - Arjayay (talk) 20:01, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

This edit request to Help:Contents has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

110.247.86.241 (talk) 07:10, 24 September 2015 (UTC) --110.247.86.241 (talk) 07:10, 24 September 2015 (UTC)--110.247.86.241 (talk) 07:10, 24 September 2015 (UTC)'Bold text'

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. Cannolis (talk) 07:25, 24 September 2015 (UTC)

This edit request to Help:Contents has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

122.169.183.98 (talk) 11:10, 6 November 2015 (UTC) photosubmission@wikimedia.org

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. --I am k6ka ^{Talk to me!} _{See what I have done} 12:33, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

I have removed the tip of the day as per previous talks on the matter. -- Moxy (talk) 22:29, 20 November 2015 (UTC)

@Moxy: Things change, and so has the tip of the day. There are some very good reasons to include the TOTD these days:

• The department has been revitalized, with strong ongoing support to keep the tips and the tip library up-to-date and relevant. JoeHebda is doing one hell of a good job as the TOTD's driving force.
• Many new tips have been added to the collection.
• Tips are checked, double-checked, and triple-checked before they "go live". There is a buffer of about 60 days of tips reviewed and ready for their go live date.
• The tip has been reformatted to match the style of the Help:Contents page.
• Placed at the bottom of the page, it doesn't compete with the contents, while providing all the benefits of a daily useful tip.
• The tips are designed to solve problems and provide powerful resources the reader might otherwise miss.
• It's one of WP's help departments, providing an alternative way to learn the ropes (with a tip library, categorized by area of activity).
• It's a distinct feature of WP, and part of its personality; it also employs some advanced templating, which editors may find very useful.
• There's no better place for a dynamically renewing helpful tip than Wikipedia's main help page. ;)
• It's the equivalent to "random article" for the help department.
• It's like the "selected article" feature of portals, but highlighting a help page.
• It's an added incentive for newbies to return to the help page each day, to see what the daily tip is, and each time they do they are exposed to Wikipedia's main help categories again, which helps familiarize them with the project faster.
• It's fun and interesting! Which are keys for effective teaching and learning.

Keep in mind that the tip was on the page for 46 days (until removed) without generating any complaints. Please consider returning this quality feature to the Help:Contents page. Thank you Moxy. As always, in support of every aspect of the help department, yours sincerely, The Transhumanist 12:30, 21 November 2015 (UTC)

I think Its just to overwhelming (takes up half the page) for a small amount of info that people were not looking for. A link would be fine but no need to dominate the page with one hint. The reasons outlined at Help talk:Contents/Archive 6#RfC: Redesign of Help:Contents still hold true...and is the only item removed completely...no mention of merits to include...noone though it was a good idea to dominate the page with one random hint. -- Moxy (talk)

@Moxy: 365 "random" hints per year. But I like to think they are the 365 best tips we could find—to get up to speed quickly and become a more capable user. They are highlights of the help system. And being at the bottom of the page, it is a nice daily bonus to the overview preceding it, that users can come back to again and again. If the TOTD attracts a readership, and I suspect it does, those individuals return to Help:Contents, which is a good thing. (Another opportunity to read the manual). By the way, there are a couple other points I forgot to mention in my list above:

• Each tip includes a link to the tip library, which is a mini-help system that summarizes and draws the reader into the overall help system pretty well. A subset that is useful to help get up to speed as a skilled user.
• The TOTD is portable, meaning users can take it home with them (that is, place a piece of the help system on their user pages or user talk pages). This makes it more likely they will read a little bit of WP's help documentation each day, thereby improving their skills and know-how as editors of the 'pedia.

Our goal here is to help users become better users. A nice little daily supplement of knowledge, easy to digest, adds up quickly. ;) The Transhumanist 00:53, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

Tip of the day... What can be included in Wikipedia? Wikipedia has only a few limitations on what topics it covers. Recipes and how-to articles are not included in the main namespace, but just about everything else is. In which other encyclopedia do you find a list of sex positions, an article about nose picking or one about William Shatner's version of Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds? As long as an article is verifiable, informative and neutral, it has a pretty good chance of being acceptable (see Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not for some other common rules). We strive to collect the sum of human knowledge, some of which may be trivial, but nevertheless is part of our cultures and our histories. Wikipedia is not paper‍—‌we need not worry about space constraints. Prior tip – Tips library – Next tip Read more: Wikipedia:Unusual articles   Become a Wikipedia tipster To add this auto-updating template to your user page, use {{totd3}}

---

Copied from the totd talk page:

Is there a way to make this smaller? Having it take up half the page with so little info is a bit much on a help page full of topic specific info. -- Moxy (talk) 16:07, 21 November 2015 (UTC)

Greetings Moxy and The Transhumanist - Chiming in with my two cents worth. Perhaps the right side blue box (like on this page above, across from TOC) could be used instead? It is positioned with {{right|{{totd3}}}}. BTW, I really like the side-by-side look of the Help:Contents page.

My suggestion is, at Additional searches section, to move the searchboxes to the left (same one-half page format as most of the Help Contents page), and add Totd3 template on the right side paired with the searchboxes. I don't know the "magic wikicode" to accomplish this so I'm hoping either of you or another editor can help if this sounds like a reasonable solution. Regards, JoeHebda (talk) 17:09, 21 November 2015 (UTC)

Shit ..just wrote stuff at the tlak page...but this half thing sounds like it could work.-- Moxy (talk) 17:41, 21 November 2015 (UTC)

(end of copy)

---

Fitting it into a column in a 2-column format works for me. We can format it to pretty much fit anywhere. The Transhumanist 07:43, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

 Done Matching the section format of the page, rather than using the blue box to the right. The Transhumanist 09:20, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

• Thanks! The Transhumanist for making this update. It looks great and fits right in with the other page sections, two-column format. I agree, it looks better on the left column. Cheers! JoeHebda (talk) 21:51, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

When I search help there is an error «An error has occurred while searching: The search backend returned an error:» it does not say what the error is. Help search is broken. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Shabratha (talk • contribs) 13:58, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

• @Shabratha: thank you for pointing this out. There is currently technical work happening on Wikipedia's search functions. I have tested the search function on the contents page and I get the same error. I will ask for technical assistance. --Pine^✉ 16:13, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

@Shabratha and Pine: Could you enable New search at beta features? This has sometimes fixed this problem. --Glaisher (talk) 16:25, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

I don't want beta features. I want help to work. Kindly do the needful. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Shabratha (talk • contribs) 09:10, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

@Shabratha: The new "beta" search is due to become the default search here on August 27 (mw:Search#Timeline). Since the existing search code is being phased out, I doubt if anyone will be trying to fix it. So your options are to enable "beta" search or to wait for the new code. Please remember that most of the code developers are unpaid volunteers, just like the editors and administrators here. -- John of Reading (talk) 09:35, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

Help page says I should try FAQ, but FAQ search is broken too. Shabratha (talk) 10:00, 3 July 2014 (UTC) This is stupid. I tried fixing a picture which is against copyright, but nothing happened, so I came to Help. The help page does not mention copyright, so I tried help search. Help search is broken so I asked here, and the answer isn't «Here's how to do it», the answer is «Yes we know help search is broken, wait 2 months». Then I tried FAQ, but FAQ search is broken too. Then I asked at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Media_copyright_questions but no answer. Then I tried the beta search. Beta search sent me to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Copyright_problems but that says «Image copyright concerns are not handled on this board». It then sent me to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:CSD but that is very wikitechnical and has no help. If insiders know that beta search works and help search doesn't work, why do the help and FAQ pages use the broken one? This is stupid and it is a waste of time. Shabratha (talk) 10:28, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

@Shabratha: I'm sorry you got frustrated. The "search" boxes at Help:Contents and Wikipedia:FAQ use whichever search has been chosen by the user doing the search; there's nothing available in the software that can change this behaviour. I've tried searching for the word "copyright" in both these search boxes and got some fairly sensible answers.

Your question at Wikipedia:Media copyright questions#Aerial photos probably hasn't been answered yet because there is not enough detail. I've made a comment there. -- John of Reading (talk) 17:23, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

You need an FAQ on the help page for how to start a post on the talk page. I went to a talk page, and there were no subspaces to start a post that the article needed a description of 1 of the words. — Preceding unsigned comment added by YouRang? (talk • contribs) 16:32, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

The search for help within help is no longer searching for help within help. 99.104.125.199 (talk) 23:17, 3 December 2015 (UTC)

 Vanjagenije , 1 , 2 , 3.

• 213.230.77.167 (talk) 06:09, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

Robertmaschio (talk) 20:45, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

This edit request to Help:Contents has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

I am requesting a complete removal of the entry on the personal section of my wikipedia page with regards to a frivolous lawsuit brought against me 7 years ago, which was dismissed. The daughter of the man who brought that lawsuit against me posted a link to a tabloid reports, wherein she repeats an unsubstantiated quote from a section of the dismissed lawsuit. These were allegations made against me that were so weak & dishonest & proven to be factually inaccurate that they whole lawsuit was withdrawn. Therefore, I am requesting a complete removal of the following contribution: Maschio was accused of assault and battery in 2009. He allegedly choked a staff member at a "Make-A-Wish" fundraiser grabbing him by his necktie and lifting him off the ground when he was told bidding on an art item had closed. He allegedly yelled "let's take this outside" at the victim. In no way is this appropriate or relevant for the personal life section of my wikipedia page. In NO way has it ever been verified as to it's accuracy, it is simply repeating an allegation. - Robert Maschio 5.4.2016 Robertmaschio (talk) 20:45, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

Hi Robert, The material in question has been removed - and I have left a warning with the user that replaced it as well as a general warning on the talkpage of that article. IMDb is absolutely not an appropriate source in this situation. SQL^{Query me!} 01:54, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

On the page 'Editing Wikipedia', I suggest changing the link for 'Naming conventions in general' to 'Article Titles'. It does, in fact, already redirect to the page on Wikipedia:Article titles This is also clearer to readers: I was looking for conventions on Article Titles. Susan.nls (talk) 09:47, 22 February 2017 (UTC)

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{{subst:trim|

Lilac Moon11 (talk) 14:20, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. JTP ^{(talk • contribs)} 17:06, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

Hey all,

I'm looking into doing some research about the things that users seek out help for. If noone has any objections I'd like to add a brief survey to this page to collect some anonymous data about what people are looking for and how we can help them better. I'd like to add this in the next week or so. Ping me if anyone has any issues with this. Seddon (WMF) (talk) 22:57, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

This might be the wrong place, but I can't find where else to ask, does anyone how to expand the edit box? It used to be as simple as going into Preferences -> Editing, but it's not there anymore, any help would be appreciated. YellowStahh (talk) 10:50, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

You should ask at Wikipedia:Village pump (technical). Ruslik_Zero 20:18, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

Sahabul SK — Preceding unsigned comment added by SahabulSKOfficial (talk • contribs) 07:06, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

I am considering deleting it due to being a bit fed up with the site. This may not be the right place but I don't know were else to put it. If it isnt the right place just remove this.Apollo The Logician (talk) 22:16, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

See WP:VANISH. Tgeorgescu (talk) 22:18, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

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The Mayor of Mossel Bay is Harry Levendal with effect from August2016. Marie Ferreira is the previous Mayor. Hillhc1946 (talk) 09:50, 3 August 2017 (UTC)

@Hillhc1946: This page is for discussing improvements to the page Help:Contents. You may wish to make this request at Talk:Mossel Bay. If you do, please include a reliable source and indicate exactly what text you want added, and where. Rivertorch^FIRE_WATER 13:36, 3 August 2017 (UTC)

This edit request to Help:Contents has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Dear Sir,,,

I'm here to report a claim on your agent (reseller) in State of Kuwait (Middle East), your agent recently raised the prices of West Cigarettes up to 64%, where other agents raised their cigarettes brands between 10 - 15 % , we believe the raise of the prices should be done as per the global market needs, and upon our government approval on the raise between 10-30 % which is accepted, but the raise of 64% is unacceptable and unreasonable. Therefore, we here the West Smokers in Kuwait request you as a manufacturer to take a serious action against your agent and force him to re-view his prices.

Waiting for your kind reply ,,,

Best Regards,, 37.231.236.213 (talk) 12:38, 3 March 2018 (UTC)

You have posted at the wrong website. This is a behind-the-scenes page at Wikipedia, the online encyclopedia. No one here can help you with cigarette pricing. -- John of Reading (talk) 13:05, 3 March 2018 (UTC)

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I need permission to copy Wikipedia article on kashmir and Pakistan for a book 2600:1000:B01A:1500:CC04:5EB7:D894:9CC6 (talk) 16:49, 17 March 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: this is the talk page for discussing improvements to the page Help:Contents. Please make your request at the talk page for the article concerned. JTP ^{(talk • contribs)} 17:47, 17 March 2018 (UTC)

This page is completely jacked up on both mobile browser viewing and the official Android app. Pariah24 (talk) 20:57, 22 July 2018 (UTC)

"jacked up"....this academic term means good or bad?--Moxy (talk) 23:50, 22 July 2018 (UTC)

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223.24.149.28 (talk) 15:08, 12 October 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ♪♫Alucard 16♫♪ 15:09, 12 October 2018 (UTC)

Apologies-- I wasn't trying to be obnoxious-- I was self-admittedly unclear on where I ought to be. For what it's worth, a URL and polite response would be a lovely way to greet a new community member who's just having some trouble, in the future. Wikiwikibamjay (talk) 23:35, 30 March 2020 (UTC)

Something like ^[1] is more what I'd expect. I apologize for the mistake, and am just now getting acquainted with the formatting, methodology, and overall process of being involved. I do thank you for removing what was effectively unintentional wiki graffiti, though it is frustrating that it was in no way accompanied by any attempt to inform. In any case, I hope you're keeping healthy, with the state of the world right now. Stay safe; take care. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikiwikibamjay (talk • contribs) 23:58, 30 March 2020 (UTC)

To help newsbies to understand a word used in the help: or Wikipedia: namespace, but that has no definition in a regular wikipedia article page.

Imagine, I do not know (I am a newbie) what edit pane is. The editor, could put in a link using {{help definition|edit pane}}. The templat would link to a new page called help:glossary or similar. And exactly, (thanks to the positional parameter with the value "edit pane") to hep:glossary#edit pane. Edit pane is not a section in the page, only and anchored definition in the glossary page. In a similar way to d:Wikidata:Glossary. No redirect page needed. No namespace change needed. I think is a good solution (and similarly functioning in Wikidata). I think our duty as "Help:People" is to support the newbies as much as we can. BoldLuis (talk) 21:47, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

Where should this point? BessieMaelstrom (talk) 11:35, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

@BessieMaelstrom: I've updated the broken link to match the "Upload file" link on the left sidebar. -- John of Reading (talk) 12:07, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

@John of Reading:Thanks, John. I'd have thought of that except my brain is less engaged than yours today. I join the people of Reading in being grateful for you. BessieMaelstrom (talk) 12:19, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

FYI I've posted a three-part interconnected proposal for this page and two others, at the Village Pump in the Policy section: Clarifying common practice ref inclusion. -- BessieMaelstrom (talk) 14:10, 22 May 2020 (UTC)

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Hi, Can someone me edit this article I have placed on Wikipedia. Your help is much needed Himanshuaroraa (talk) 05:40, 30 May 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: this is the talk page for discussing improvements to the page Help:Contents. Please make your request at the talk page for the article concerned. JTP ^{(talk • contribs)} 05:52, 30 May 2020 (UTC)

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This request is for updating the content Wiki has and adding some more information based on UGC DebanjanKonch (talk) 14:37, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

You can suggest edits on the talk page of the article concerned. – Thjarkur (talk) 14:48, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

Why not have Help: page shortcuts with H: like there are WP: for Wikipedia: and m: for Meta? Person853 (talk) 11:42, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

I want to suggest a change in one sentence of Aaurveda on Wikipedia site but page and talk also is protected for the page how can I suggest a change in line for above kindly guide where to submit a suggestion. Thanks. Vickey59 (talk) 09:19, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

@Vickey59: if it's a simple suggestion, just make it at the Teahouse and someone can handle it for you. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 13:46, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

Especially https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Multilingual_support and https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Universal_Language_Selector these two article.

"For multilingual font support, visit Help:Multilingual Support. To learn about how to use Language and font settings, see the MediaWiki article on Universal Language Selector."

RIT RAJARSHI (talk) 11:09, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

I don't really see these as vital enough to merit a link from here, sorry. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 19:01, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

Added a small addition for mobile support as this is a question that is asked all the time. Was reverted - not sure why as people use multiple platform to view Wikipedia. Seems useful. Wikipedia:Don't revert due solely to "no consensus" Thank you!--Moxy 🍁 13:17, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

It is possible to access Wikipedia on multiple platforms. The desktop version of English Wikipedia is located at https://en.wikipedia.org. The mobile version of English Wikipedia is located at https://en.m.wikipedia.org.

Could we got the reverter here pls? Hard to understand whats going on when all we have is edit summaries. Wondering why we should not link to our apps and other ways of viewing Wikipedia in the "read" section as 60 percent of our readers use non-desktop format. Take two!!-Moxy 🍁 17:06, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

I explained in my edit summaries; it was not a revert due to no consensus. If you want further clarification, ask. But the burden is on you to establish consensus for the additions. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 18:52, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

So to be clear here...you don't see an addition to help those looking to access Wikipedia on different official and non-official versions and platforms useful? So we should get the oppnions of others I would image? How is this detrimental?--Moxy 🍁 19:15, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

There is already a link at the bottom of every desktop page to the mobile version of Wikipedia, and a link at the bottom of every mobile page to the desktop version. In most cases, the browser figures it out automatically. I don't see why this is all that necessary, let alone so necessary that it needs to be put on a portal page that is meant to serve mainly as a menu of the help pages rather than a place to provide help directly. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 19:43, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

I believe helping people access our pages is always a good idea. Most people dont see the mini link at the bottom of the page and is why it comes up all the time at the help desks - they wish to change views to our official versions regardless of the default for their device. As for a link to other platform options... this represents a growing percentage of our readers so I believe its very relevant and also a question asked all the time. Many may not like the app or other versions - but still best to let readers decide what is best for them (like how they want to view help pages)--Moxy 🍁 20:16, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

As the most prominent help page on Wikipedia, the bar for inclusion here is higher than on any other help page on the project. Are there a few people unfamiliar with the internet who might want to know how to change the URL to switch between the desktop and mobile version? Sure. But if we added every piece of advice at that level of usefulness, this page would be five times as long as it is and utterly overwhelming for a casual reader. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 01:55, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

As someone who has maintained this pages for many many many years I am fully aware of inclusion criteria. So are YOU ok with the inclusion? Can we add a link to our app and the many other means of viewing Wikipedia along with easy switch links to official version of Wikipedia.--Moxy 🍁 02:27, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

Rolling in from WP:3O. I think that it might be worthwhile to include if it's a perennial helpdesk subject -- big if true -- and my rule of thumb is that every time someone on a website takes it upon themselves to go through the question-asking process, there are probably a dozen people who couldn't be arsed and just gave up. Using the Internet on a mobile browser is already enough of a drag (maybe I am just old, but it is always awkward for me, especially when I get juggled between "helpful" behaviors like repeatedly defaulting to the view that I don't want) that I think it would probably help more than it'd hurt. I think that for most people, "adding or subtracting .m. to the beginning of a URL makes the whole website be completely different" is a little non-intuitive. { ${\displaystyle \mathbb {JPG} }$ } 23:45, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

Jacob Gotts, I spend a fair amount of time at the Teahouse, and I don't know of editors asking that question, let alone asking it "all the time". Perhaps some of the Teahouse hosts could give insight on that; to be blunt, given Moxy's reputation, I don't place weight on their assertion alone. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 03:13, 16 September 2020 (UTC)

Well, I guess I was smart to say "big if true" then, lol. If there's no basis for the claim, I guess that takes some of the air out of it. I guess I'll restrict myself to saying that I personally find the mobile website a little confusing and, were I not a big galaxy-brained computer lad, I would probably appreciate something about how to switch the versions being in the contents. But I don't have a strong opinion either way. Is there a list somewhere, of commonly suggested things which end up not getting added to this page? { ${\displaystyle \mathbb {JPG} }$ } 04:24, 16 September 2020 (UTC)

My reputation is based on a decade worth of experience with new editors and my interaction with old timers- . Back to the matter at hand... a simple search of the archives for questions related to mobile access and other platforms can be done by anyone...thus why a link to that information may be useful...as data shows. Will wait a bit see if others have anything to say a before implementing. As for changes to this page..we had a huge talk about 5 years ago and a few of us have watched over the page since then adding and removing things here and there....old format now sits at Help:Menu. Its wonderful Sdkb discovered the page a few months ago and made some changes, but not sure they have our mobile readers or people with disabilities in-mind in-general Introduction to Web Accessibility--Moxy 🍁 04:48, 16 September 2020 (UTC)

From 2013 to 2019, the percentage of web traffic by mobile devices went from 16.2 to 53.3, and is still climbing. Therefore, it is highly appropriate to include mobile support on Wikipedia's main help page. (Here's the source of the statistic).    — The Transhumanist   09:31, 16 September 2020 (UTC)

A very useful tip that is not intuitive in the least, is that the mobile version of Wikipedia is extremely useful on desktops/laptops/notepads for showing articles without the side menu, using the entire width of the screen. If we don't post this front and center, so that users can easily find this information, they could go their whole lives without ever learning about it. I've added this tidbit to the edit you've been discussing above. Please keep the mobile version info on the main help page, as it benefits mobile and desktop users alike. Thank you. (By the way, on desktops/laptops/notepads, zooming in on the regular version very annoyingly enlarges the menu sidebar, thereby reducing the proportion of the screen devoted to the article. Using the mobile version handily avoids this problem).    — The Transhumanist   09:59, 16 September 2020 (UTC)

I see that Moxy has recruited you to this discussion (along with attempting with several others). No one is disputing that mobile users are prevalent. But support for mobile should be automatic, not something that requires instruction, and 99% of the time this is already the case. Your "useful tip" would be a fine addition to the tip of the day, but it is not remotely appropriate for this page, since only a few people are going to want to intentionally use mobile on desktop, and suggesting users do so is a tiny band-aid on the actual problem of getting the desktop version to work properly.

Again, I need to emphasize that the proposed addition is wildly out of proportion with the level of detail this page is supposed to provide. For example, everything about COI is summed up in the single sentence If you are affiliated with the article subject, please see our conflict of interest guideline., and the MOS and Wiki markup are put together into the sentence The Simplified Manual of Style and Cheatsheet can remind you of basic wiki markup. Sticking to this broad level of overview requires leaving out information that would be considered very important in any other context, such as that paid editors must disclose. By contrast, you're proposing adding an entire paragraph, longer even than the paragraph on searching, for the minority of users who want to use the mobile or desktop versions in non-standard ways. That's classic WP:CREEP.

One user plus one recruited friend versus one neutral and one opposed is not sufficient to establish consensus for making such a major change to such a high-level page, so I will revert to the status quo. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 17:55, 16 September 2020 (UTC)

Yes asked those that edit thirs page to come and review your actions. Not sure what more could be said. Will restore main points. This discrimination is beyond the pale.--Moxy 🍁 18:20, 16 September 2020 (UTC)

I think it might be more productive if you guys made a WP:RFC or posted on WP:DRN instead of continuing to revert each other. { ${\displaystyle \mathbb {JPG} }$ } 20:22, 16 September 2020 (UTC)

Jacob Gotts, done below. As a process matter, I would ask that the WP:STATUSQUO be restored while the RfC is taking place. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 21:06, 16 September 2020 (UTC)

Should we add the following additions to this page?

1. At the bottom of the "Read or find an article" section:

   It is possible to access Wikipedia on multiple platforms. The desktop version of English Wikipedia is located at https://en.wikipedia.org. The mobile version of English Wikipedia is located at https://en.m.wikipedia.org (also very useful on desktop and laptop computers, to display articles in large print across the entire width of the screen without the side menu, making them much easier to read).

2. At the bottom of the page:

   Mobile version of Help talk:Contents/Archive 7 - Desktop version of Help talk:Contents/Archive 7

{{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 20:41, 16 September 2020 (UTC)

• No to 1, strong no to 2. It's important first of all to understand the context of this page. This is the main portal to the help namespace, and the only help page linked from the left sidebar. The bar for inclusion here is higher than at any other help page on Wikipedia, and information that would be considered important elsewhere is often left out here so that the page can remain a concise directory with links to the most important help pages, rather than becoming bloated with specific advice for niche circumstances through WP:CREEP.

Let's consider the proposal within that context. Mobile access to Wikipedia is certainly important, but browsers figure it out automatically 99% of the time, and for anyone who wants to switch to the other version, there is already a link to the mobile version at the bottom of every desktop page and vice versa. That's basically the second part of the proposal, only intelligent enough to not offer to switch to the version the user is already on. As for the first part, Help:Mobile access should be linked from the main pages the read/find section sends readers to, WP:About and WP:FAQ/Readers; it shouldn't be elevated as a primary link akin to those pages. And it certainly shouldn't have an entire paragraph longer even than the paragraph for searching. The tip in the parenthetical would be fine at the mobile access page, but especially given that it's a band-aid solution to a larger problem of desktop readability, it doesn't merit a sentence at a location this ultra-prominent.

Pages inevitably trend toward creep, and it's easier if we take a hard stance now than if we allow it to grow, handing the problem to future pruners.{{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 20:41, 16 September 2020 (UTC)

As a process matter, I will add that it has been inappropriate for Moxy to repeatedly[1][2][3] add the proposed text without consensus to do so, and that the WP:STATUSQUO should be restored until such consensus is established. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 21:02, 16 September 2020 (UTC)

• 1b yes to original proposal not the undiscussed wording above.

1. b At the bottom of the "Read or find an article" section:

   It is possible to access Wikipedia on multiple platforms. The desktop version of English Wikipedia is located at https://en.wikipedia.org. The mobile version of English Wikipedia is located at https://en.m.wikipedia.org

Good information for those who are having problems accessing Wikipedia by way of format, platform or disability. Exactly the kind of help you would expect to see on the main help page.... how best to access the website despite what software or device you have. I would consider it much more important to our readers than "editing tip of the day" or our two list of links to other list of links. To be honest can't believe this information was over looked here for so long. Also very surprised to see such a fuss about it by one editor. 2 no strong opinion...simply a link of convince that might be useful to those having trouble viewing the page in question in their default format. --Moxy 🍁 21:13, 16 September 2020 (UTC)

• • @Moxy: Some observations and clarifying questions; I hope they help: 1) the link "access Wikipedia on multiple platforms" doesn't cover multiple platforms; that is, that link doesn't lead to what it says it leads to, which is confusing. Where do they find the info on the rest of the multiple platforms, and how many other platforms are there? 2) Does there need to be a link to the default (desktop) view? What does it look like from a mobile device? Don't desktop users already see that view? If so, why is a link needed? 3) How come there is a link to the desktop view but not to a page explaining that view as there is with mobile? There's a mobile format help page, but no desktop format help page. I look forward to your replies.    — The Transhumanist   22:15, 19 September 2020 (UTC)

1)Page covers how to access the site from differ platforms... Android, iOS, Opera Mini, tablets, Windows, etc (many in the form of aplications) with a link to more software and has information for screen readers. 2)Desktop view is not the default for 60 percent of our readers those on mobile devices. 3)No link to desktop help in this one sentence because all the other links to help pages on this page cover desktop view.... What is happening is we are FINALLY added a link to mobile view help.--Moxy 🍁 23:43, 19 September 2020 (UTC)

• Support 1b , seems a reasonable addition, drawing attention between the two views is important I feel, may confuse many users. Just because we're all aware of this doesn't mean average readers are. --Jules (Mrjulesd) 08:26, 17 September 2020 (UTC)

  I have c/e to

  It is possible to access Wikipedia on multiple platforms. English Wikipedia has a desktop view at https://en.wikipedia.org and mobile view at https://en.m.wikipedia.org

  . --Jules (Mrjulesd) 08:55, 17 September 2020 (UTC)

• Support 1b , reasonable compromise. The two views being so different, it is important someone seeing one view be aware that the other exists.--Astral Leap (talk) 09:51, 17 September 2020 (UTC)

  Astral Leap and Mrjulesd, the "seems reasonable" !votes are the ones I was afraid of. RfCs by their nature are designed to remove a question from its context, and placed in the context of a generic help page, the sentence would be much more fitting than it is here. I'm not sure what else I can add to what I wrote above, but I hope you and others here look at the question within its full context. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 17:42, 17 September 2020 (UTC)

  Well I have read your comments about bloat and creep. Well RfCs are useful are ideal in situations like these; then there is a natural limitation to bloat, as the number of RfCs held is usually quite low. Nothing was wrong in your view to remove it; except that others might believe that the "cost" (in terms of complexity) is less important than the potential benefits of the explanation. I believe that understanding the different access views is vitally important, and may be overlooked by many readers. --Jules (Mrjulesd) 18:02, 17 September 2020 (UTC)

  I think mentioning the two views are important, as they are so very different. Many mobile Wikipedia editors switch to the desktop view because the mobile one doesn't allow the same functionality, and someone who is only editing on mobile may be unaware of this.--Astral Leap (talk) 11:40, 19 September 2020 (UTC)

  @Astral Leap: Cool, that sounds like useful information. How does a mobile user normally switch from mobile view to desktop view? Where do they usually learn this?    — The Transhumanist   22:21, 19 September 2020 (UTC)

  At the bottom of every page there is a toggle to change views....however it's so small and placeed with things so unrelated to be unseen by most.--Moxy 🍁 23:54, 19 September 2020 (UTC)

  If the notice is too small, the solution would be to make it bigger, not to duplicate it at the bottom this page. Tackle the underlying problem, rather than creating an inferior fix that applies to only a single page. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 06:59, 20 September 2020 (UTC)

  editing for this page we should be considering mainly readers. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 22:25, 19 September 2020 (UTC)

  Agree.... I've always thought that this should be a standard format page. Leading readers to unfamiliar formats with no navigational help impedes on the usefulness of page. Most when confronted with an unconventional page will simply give up on it instantly..... thinking they hit the backside of Wikipedia that's all different and requires even more/different code learning.--Moxy 🍁 00:28, 20 September 2020 (UTC)

  @The Transhumanist: I suspect most figure this out via editing on a desktop device, and seeing the actual different view, and then looking for a toggle (which does appear on every Wikipedia page). How a mobile-only user would figure this out, I am left guessing, which why a mention in the help would be useful.--Astral Leap (talk) 09:03, 20 September 2020 (UTC)

RFC should be based on what was reverted a few times and what was talked about above.

It is possible to access Wikipedia on multiple platforms. The desktop version of English Wikipedia is located at https://en.wikipedia.org. The mobile version of English Wikipedia is located at https://en.m.wikipedia.org.

Best to be honest over trying to game the system in this manner. I also agree the ONE edit that is being proposed is to wordy.--Moxy 🍁 21:33, 16 September 2020 (UTC)

I included The Transhumanist's proposed parenthetical for completeness, but if you'd prefer to add part 1 but just without the parenthetical, you're welcome to state so in your !vote. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 21:36, 16 September 2020 (UTC)

Not sure the proposal should include something that was not talked about over what all but you saw as a valid addition. What you're proposing is not what was proposed above. I consider it gaming as you have done this type of thing before. But I believe the ORIGINAL addition holds merit so let's see what happens.--Moxy 🍁 21:42, 16 September 2020 (UTC)

"not talked about" is plainly inaccurate. The Transhumanist brought up their parenthetical above, as anyone can see, and also added it briefly to the page itself as part of the earlier back-and-forth. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 22:00, 16 September 2020 (UTC)

That addition in its wording to the page was not talked about. To look somewhat honest you should place 1A and 1B as options. Not sure the one person who is opposed to any addition should be the one proposing what addition to make. Very suspect at face value.--Moxy 🍁 22:25, 16 September 2020 (UTC)

The text I inserted was just a suggestion. It got reverted per WP:BRD. No big deal. The edit didn't stick. Some do, some don't. That's fine with me.    — The Transhumanist   19:11, 18 September 2020 (UTC)

This edit request to Shooting of Breonna Taylor has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Three lines from the bottom of the of the second paragraph is a statement in quotes: "There's (sic) no packages of interest going there". "sic" is in parens rather than in brackets. Quote should read "There's [sic] no packages of interest going there". Fred Rotwang (talk) 18:42, 23 September 2020 (UTC)

@Fred Rotwang:  Done, assuming you were asking for Shooting of Breonna Taylor. In the future, please make requests at the WP:Teahouse, or the page's talk page rather than this talk page, which is for the Wikipedia contents page itself (see the notice at the top). {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 19:07, 23 September 2020 (UTC)

This edit request to Help:Contents has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

2600:1700:3BD2:8C0F:C88F:5E12:73B3:AFF9 (talk) 16:38, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Elliot321 (talk | contribs) 16:52, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

This edit request to Help:Contents has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Rana Ayyub pointed out Islamophobic elements in Sooryavanshi. (https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/11/15/why-an-indian-films-success-box-office-should-worry-us-all), Riz Ahmed and Arif Alvi also criticized the film.(https://tribune.com.pk/story/2329672/riz-ahmed-disgusted-arif-alvi-disappointed-by-islamophobic-indian-film-sooryavanshi) 103.58.154.249 (talk) 10:53, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: this is the talk page for discussing improvements to the page Help:Contents. Please make your request at the talk page for the article concerned. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 12:03, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

This edit request to Help:Contents has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

2800:BF0:16D:D13:95ED:720:727D:BE70 (talk) 23:03, 7 December 2021 (UTC)

YOLA CONOCI EN UN TAXI EN CAMINO AL CLUUUUB, ME PARO CON UNA MANO ME PARO Q YO LA VI, CHOCHO CHOFE PAREL TAXI

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. — IVORK _Talk 23:31, 7 December 2021 (UTC)

I want to create an article about the characters of a video game franchise. What sources do I have to insert so that the article becomes submittable? NikoPalad67140 (talk) 17:10, 13 February 2022 (UTC)

I would like to formally propose some changes to....

Below is the revised version that I would like to implement. This would involve several changes to structure, and also to content, such as;

• simplifying the titles for each group within the nav box,
• consolidating some sections
• renaming some links to be more clear,
• adding a new line to link to the Library
• adding a line to link to some of the basic newsletters, and also to some resources for data relating to Wikipedia
• regrouping links within some groups on separate lines, to make this easier for newcomers.

the goal is to make this nav box simpler for new editors, as well as easier to read for existing editors.

Thanks. --Sm8900 (talk) 01:06, 4 March 2022 (UTC)

This is definitely bigger and not simpler and removes the main Interactive help pages from Header. The format also does not highlight the main summary pages in the side header and instead leaves us with black titles that aren't links wasting space. Is this not simply a copy of a template that was deleted recently? This format looks very familiar.Moxy- 01:12, 4 March 2022 (UTC)

to answer your question, this is not a copy in any way of the template that was deleted recently. this is primarily all of the prior categories that previously existed at Template:Basic information; the groups have been renamed, but it is the same groups. As noted, I did add two new categories.

I want to fully answer your question, which is totally valid. this template is very much the prior established structure of {{Basic information}}; again, yes there are revisions, primarily by renaming the group names, and removing the piped links, and also renaming or reordering some of the links for some pages. --Sm8900 (talk) 01:19, 4 March 2022 (UTC)

I would like to let a little more time go by, to allow anyone else to respond if they wish to do so. Once some time has elapsed, I hope to go ahead and revise my proposal further, in order to accomondate some of the suggestions and comments expressed, to the most practical extent possible. This will include the valid points expressed by Moxy above.

If anyone has other requests or suggestions in regards to this proposal, please feel free to express them; otherwise, my further revisions will focus mainly on Moxy's valuable points above. thanks. --Sm8900 (talk) 04:19, 4 March 2022 (UTC)

I oppose this change. When I originally created {{Basic information}}, my idea was to create a simpler template to the present {{Wikipedia help pages}}, which at the time seemed over-extended (but not anymore). So extending this template goes against my vision of having a simple template that wouldn't overwhelm newbies. And that is the risk here, of overwhelming new users with choice and therefore intimidating them. "Basic information", I feel, should only contain the most basic pages, just enough for new contributors to make a reasonable start here. --Jules (Mrjulesd) 10:12, 4 March 2022 (UTC)

@Mrjulesd and Moxy:, I appreciate your highly valuable comments above. I have provided a new proposal, based on your insightful feedback and comments above. the new proposal leaves most of this template in place. I would welcome your comments, if you wish. you can view this proposal at the discussion at the Village pump section. thanks very much. --Sm8900 (talk) 14:50, 20 May 2022 (UTC)

hi. there is a proposal to modify Template:Basic information, at the page below.

Please note, we will move ahead with changes at the template, based on the consensus at the page below; this is to avoid any concerns or appearance of forum-shopping. we would welcome any comments and feedback there. thanks.

• LINK: Wikipedia:Village pump (idea lab)#NEW PROPOSAL

--Sm8900 (talk) 18:04, 23 May 2022 (UTC)

--Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 19:04, 2 August 2022 (UTC)