Jump to content

Wikinews:Flagged revisions/Requests for permissions

From Wikinews, the free news source you can write!
This is an official policy on English Wikinews. It has wide acceptance and is considered a standard for all users to follow. Changes to this page must reflect consensus. If in doubt, discuss first on the talk page.



Requests and votes
Accreditation
ARBCOM
AWB
Bots
Functionaries
Reviewer

Please use this page to request the Flagged Revisions permission, putting new requests at the top. Requests will generally stay open for at least a week (unless fast-tracked), after which an administrator will read the comments made by other users and decide whether or not to add the flag.

I
Before a request

Before requesting this permission, you must be familiar with key policies, particularly the style guide and neutral point of view. Prior to review of any article, and its subsequent publication, you will be required to copyedit the article for any style issues. This requires a very good understanding of English grammar to maintain the quality of the project's published works.

You should have written many published articles with which no major problems should have arose during review lately. It is best if you have already helped to review articles and gave feedback to the author – either on your own, or together with an established reviewer. If you wish to practice under supervision, subscribe here, and reviewers will try to reach you on IRC before review sessions start.

II
Create the request for permission:
  • Users can submit their own requests (self-nomination), or
  • Other users can nominate a candidate.
  1. Add the candidate username in the box below and click the Add a request button.
  2. Complete the questions on the resulting page and save it. Please highlight if you are nominating someone who has not yet accepted the nomination on-wiki.
  3. Transclude the request page at the foot of the section below by adding the title of the request page, enclosed by curly brackets e.g.:
    {{Wikinews:Flagged revisions/Requests for permissions/YourUsername}}
  4. Then inform the Wikinews community of your request.
III
Questions

You may be asked questions by other users so they can review your request. Please try to provide full answers.

IV
Community decision

The request must remain open for at least seven days. An administrator will close the request and will also add the flag, if there is consensus. Closed requests are moved to the Archives.

Note If a request has been open for over a week, please leave a note at the talk page of an administrator.

Requests for reviewer

[edit]

Note for this section, "{{Support}}" means "support the request", and "{{Oppose}}" means "oppose the request".

Removal of Reviewer status

[edit]

Post requests here regarding any user who you consider has abused reviewer status. Provide a justification for the removal, preferably with examples of where the permission has been abused.

Note for this section, "{{Remove}}" means "support removal of permission", and "{{Oppose}}" means "oppose removal of permission".

Microchip08 (talk · contribs – Edit rights)

[edit]

Microchip08's last article to review was six years ago, and last review log was five years ago. This is neither a challenge to the user's admin tools nor a challenge to his overall (in)activity. Rather, per WN:PEP, just the user's reviewer tools and ability to understand and select which right article to publish are put into question. Microchip can still be an admin without reviewer tools, ya know. I notified this person almost one year ago about having not reviewed one article within the past year at the time, and I re-notified just one week ago. Furthermore, this user has been notified about lack of reviewing activity and invited to review articles. I've not yet seen one review done by this user within the past year to now since the notifications and invites. I'd like to hear word from this nominated user. --George Ho (talk) 02:45, 16 June 2024 (UTC); amended, 07:46, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Stats

[edit]


Questions and comments

[edit]
  • Given our lack of active reviewers, I would be hesitant to support removal of reviewer permissions simply for inactivity. I would be more happy to see them return and review a couple of shorter/easier articles to get back into the groove. I would be discouraged by a brief response from them to the tune of 'I don't think I should lose the permissions' without first returning and doing a small review or even some sort of a pre-review without using the easyPeerReview tool. —Michael.C.Wright (Talk/Published) 17:50, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • PEP is a policy, even if you don’t like it. This isn’t the place to say that we should get rid of PEP. Additionally, someone who hasn’t reviewed in 5-6 years will have probably forgotten a lot. Outside of a few minor edits, they have done nothing in nearly 6 years. They will have to relearn before they can give good reviews. Remember that it is supposed to be much easier to regain the permission. @Michael.C.Wright: Me Da Wikipedian (talk) 17:29, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Votes

[edit]

Support per my comment above. Me Da Wikipedian (talk) 17:29, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Tom Morris (talk · contribs – Edit rights)

[edit]

Tom Morris has not reviewed an article since February 2021 and has not used the reviewer permission at all since March 2021, both of which are over 3 years ago. Per WN:PEP, reviewers who do not use their permission for 2 years will have the permission removed. George Ho has notified them about their inactivity as a reviewer around 1 year ago as well as 3 weeks ago, with no response and no reviews done. As such, I am requesting removal of their reviewer permissions. Me Da Wikipedian (talk) 12:41, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Stats

[edit]


Questions and comments

[edit]
  • As I've stated on previous requests, I am hesitant to support removal simply for inactivity.[1] This is not a protest against PEP. I would much prefer that existing reviewers re-engage with the project. It would be more beneficial to have them return and review a few shorter or easier articles to reacquaint themselves with the process. More importantly, we need more reviewers to help us solve the larger and perennial problem of why we consistently have too few active reviewers. Removing the ability for existing reviewers to return and lend a hand seems counter to the work we are doing with the pre-review process.[2] Therefore I'll wait to see what, if any response we get from the user as well as others. Michael.C.Wright (Talk/Published) 13:51, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    "It would be more beneficial to have them return and review a few shorter or easier articles to reacquaint themselves with the process" - I wish they would do when they go tthe notifications. However, they didn't. Keeping inactive reviewers won't solve the actual problem (lack of active reviewers).
    After more than 3 years of not doing something, you aren't as familiar with doing it. At least for me, all I'd want to see before supporting a request for re-instatement of tools is creating a few articles and maybe pre-reviewing/copyediting some stuff, just to show they remember how things work. This isn't just a hypothetical, we had a generally very helpful user make a very basic recently who hadn't use their tools in 14 years.
    Also, ultimately PEP exists as a policy. This (still) isn't the place to propose changes to PEP. PEP is pretty clear, 2 years of not using means it's removed. @Michael.C.Wright Me Da Wikipedian (talk) 23:42, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Who proposed changes to PEP? Michael.C.Wright (Talk/Published) 12:33, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    To which changes were you referring? Ones made three years ago (mainly to extend expiry time) was done by Cromium, but then the decision was somewhat unilateral. Nonetheless, I've yet to see opposition to the changes made. George Ho (talk) 18:12, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Above I am responding to Me Da Wikipedian, who commented This (still) isn't the place to propose changes to PEP. I don't know what changes MDW is referring to or who proposed them.
    I'm not now, nor have I previously proposed changes to PeP. I'm willing to ignore PeP in favor of an inactive reviewer immediately re-engaging to 'improve or maintain' en.wn, per WN:IAR. But I won't ignore PeP for a reviewer who merely states a desire to keep elevated privileges without taking any action. Michael.C.Wright (Talk/Published) 18:55, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • I apologise for my lack of response by email/talk page - I was meaning to respond but didn't get around to it. I've broadly moved on from editing Wikinews (as is apparent) and now mostly focus my editing time on Wikipedia and Wikidata. I am broadly of the view across Wikimedia wikis that removal of permission should generally only be done protectively (i.e. if there is a breach in the user's security) or for cause, but that's my personal view and I defer to the project's active users in how you handle user permissions. If not, as WN:PEP#Regaining permissions notes I can re-request them with a slightly lower threshold. If you decide to retain my permissions, I can assure you that I will only use them after sufficiently familiarising myself with the project's rules and current practices in much the same way as recommended in WN:PEP#Regaining permissions. —Tom Morris (talk) 13:57, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I am willing to withhold my support—effectively evoking WN:IAR if you immediately re-engage with the project. I agree with Heavy Water that PEP shouldn't be used punitively for inactivity[3]. However, I don't see that this was proposed or supported by others in a punitive fashion, but rather following the policy to the letter. And you did vote in favor of PeP, saying it "Seems pretty reasonable..."[4]
    I appreciate your stated willingness to brush up on policy and practices before using reviewer privileges again. However, we need active reviewers immediately and it was my hope that the risk of losing privileges would spur you to re-engage. Michael.C.Wright (Talk/Published) 18:11, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    For all the "I will only use them after sufficiently familiarising myself with the project's rules and current practices" you seem to have forgotten how the main page works. @Tom Morris Me Da Wikipedian (talk) 11:32, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    You also seem to have forgotten the spell numbers under 20 rule. I bet if I continue to look through that article I will find more things. Considering this, I would like to see you demonstrate ability to actually review well before deciding that you should keep the tools. Me Da Wikipedian (talk) 11:44, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Hi @Tom Morris, I appreciate your response.
    • (From my perspective the key change implemented was increased freshness span from 1-2 days to a week.)
    • Do you have a preference of topic (i.e. 'technology in India' or 'politics in Indonesia' or 'anything either Canada or education related')? I can send you a note when a new draft in your topic area is available.
    • (I would also like to invite you to read and respond to a few inquiries at Wikinews:Water cooler/proposals, which are not policy related and may help with reviewing.)
    Regards, -- Gryllida (talk) 00:23, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Gryllida freshness used to be 2-3 days, no? Me Da Wikipedian (talk) 00:47, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Yes, you're right, it was 2-3 days (1-2 days plus one day for reviewing), I stand corrected. Gryllida (talk) 01:01, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Votes

[edit]
  • Support removal. We shouldn't be literally begging users to keep rights when they clearly don't need it. Leaderboard (talk) 15:48, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support – If we wait for him for a long while to review an article, who know which article Tom will publish after a long absence from Wikinews? Furthermore, reluctance to enforce WN:PEP is hardly a reason to oppose removal of the tools. Of course, it was also a reason to keep TUFKAAP's admin tools this year, but this is about Tom's reviewer tools. Moreover, current state of the project's (smaller) community should be hardly a reason to oppose removal, but again, this is about the tools here. I just have very little or no confidence about his interests in becoming re-active in Wikinews in the future. --George Ho (talk) 16:05, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Reaffirming my support – Seems that he has "broadly moved on from editing Wikinews (as is apparent)". George Ho (talk) 17:22, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Withdrawing my vote for now due to (overlooked) recent activity by Tom, brought to light by Michael. —George Ho (talk) 14:20, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose removal. Tom Morris no longer meets the qualifications for PeP as he has reviewed a few articles since the request has been filed.[5], [6], [7] I think this request should be closed now. I'm sure we could pick apart his recent reviews and find problems like not spelling out small numbers. We could also fix any small errors within the 24-hour window and help him help en.wn move forward with another active reviewer. We would do the same for a new reviewer. I appreciate Morris jumping back in and doing both reviews and maintenance work and I hope he sticks around. We could use some help in the following projects, in fact;
Michael.C.Wright (Talk/Published) 14:06, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I should add that I appreciate @Me Da Wikipedian filing this request, as I believe that and the ensuing conversation spurred positive action. With any luck we can turn it into momentum. Michael.C.Wright (Talk/Published) 15:45, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"I'm sure we could pick apart his recent reviews and find problems" - The fact that in the 1 real review they did (the others were very obvious fails that I did in pre-review as well), they forgot how the Main Page worked, forgot a (minor) policy, and also did the review in 3 minutes (!). To be clear, while PeP is (techinically) no longer applicable, I think this illustrates perfectly why PeP is sometimes important.
I would personally like to see some reviews showing that they remember policies, and then I would be happy to withdraw. @Michael.C.Wright@George Ho Me Da Wikipedian (talk) 15:53, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Going through the article in a bit more detail (unless I myself did something wrong), here's some issues Tom Morris should have caught/not made:
1.New stories go at the top of the Main Page, not the bottom.
2.We spell numbers under 20.
3.Sources are ordered based on when they are used in the article.
4.Unused sources should be removed.
5.No sources seem to verify the head coach's retirement.
This is why I would like to see them do reviews correctly before closing this.@Michael.C.Wright@George Ho Me Da Wikipedian (talk) 16:46, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Those incidences occur in just one article. If similar incidences occur in other articles he's reviewed, then I may want to re-support the removal. George Ho (talk) 16:57, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's interesting that we didn't have this kind of reaction when a recently re-engaged reviewer published multiple articles with over-looked problems—one that even forced a correction. In that case, we all more-or-less simply worked with what we had in order to get quality articles published.
Perhaps this is why we have problems getting momentum on actually getting good articles published. We eventually get bogged down in the minutiae of 'I'm right, you're wrong' instead of 'let's work together to move the project forward.'
Not everything has to be a conflict or a crisis. We can work with Morris to get him back up to speed as we have done with others. Or we can remove his reviewer status, then ask him to publish some articles, copy-edit some articles, maybe use {{pre-review}}—all the while lamenting the lack of reviewers—then we can wait for someone or himself to renominate him for reviewer, then we can vote on it again, and possibly get a chance to point out all the ways he was wrong and we were right, and then maybe get another active reviewer.
I believe it would be petter if move forward with him as a reviewer and get back to the work of publishing articles. Even if we have to do a little extra work to help others come back into the fold.
Michael.C.Wright (Talk/Published) 18:38, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"we didn't have this kind of reaction when a recently re-engaged reviewer published multiple articles with over-looked problems" - Who and when. I've only been here for 7 weeks and the only user whose gotten reengaged in that time in Cromium, whose reviews (I think) have been fine.
"bogged down in the minutiae" - Our policies are all (theoretically) needed for a reason, and a reviewer needs to know and follow them. The fact that they forgot 4 of them on 1 article just shows that they need to re-learn some things.
"Not everything has to be a conflict or a crisis" - As far as I know, nobody is trying to make this into one.
"We can work with Morris to get him back up to speed as we have done with others" - I actually need to go back to early 2013 to find a reviewer who lost their perms from PeP and then came back to ask for them (and then never used them and got PePed again). In December 2012, MicroChip actually did ask for their perms back and used them a bit (and are now a PeP again). These are the only cases I can find were the user actually came back from that long and got perms back/stopped a PeP removal request to get keep their perms. So, actually, for this long it is frankly extremely rare. As Pi Zero said (somewhere in those archives) "You've only been back less than a day. The idea of the PeP is that someone who hasn't used the bit would be rusty, and there might be things that've changed."
"ask him to publish some articles, copy-edit some articles, maybe use {{pre-review}}" - This is a great idea and is frankly also a good use of pre-review. For reviewers who have been inactive for a while, in order to know how much they do/don't remember, they could do a few pre-reviews. And yes, I really want active reviewers too. But I personally spent nearly an hour (reviewing an article that only took them 3 minutes) trying to (post-review?) the article myself because I didn't trust (correctly it seems) that it was free of errors. This is obviously something that can't need to happen everytime someone publishes an article. So yeah, I just want to know that when Tom Morris (or anyone else coming back) reviews something, they still know what they're doing and it's actually good to be published. @Michael.C.Wright
My proposal is the following:We wait. We keep this open, hopefully Tom Morris does a few (non-quickfailing) more reviews. Then, based on their reviews, we evulate whether or not they know what they are doing/are remembering very quickly. Me Da Wikipedian (talk) 05:46, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Michael.C.Wright and @George Ho this user has now not reviewed anything in 6weeks... Me Da Wikipedian (talk) 00:42, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Just to clarify, the Guardian's source did mention the retirement, but it just did not mention that he was captain. Also, the 'unused' sources are not actually unused; they verify the player of the tournament. Asked42 (talk) 18:41, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, you're probably right that the guardian thing is okay, but the player of the tournament is laready verified by Times of India@Asked42 Me Da Wikipedian (talk) 05:00, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]


The following discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.



  • Closed as unsuccessful.
    • Consensus was not reached. Four votes were cast and there was one oppose vote.
    • The contributor who opened the request abused multiple accounts elsewhere and raised points elsewhere which indicated the request may have been done with potentially disruptive intent.
    • PeP discussion and/or revision may be needed, subject to consensus, to include/clarify cases when reviewer is active in non-reviewer capacity, as deleted review actions may be present.

Regards, --Gryllida (talk) 05:59, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

William S. Saturn (talk · contribs – Edit rights)

[edit]

William S. Saturn has not reviewed an article since January 2012 (more than 12.5 years ago) and has not used the reviewer permission at all since October 2016 (nearly 6 years ago). Per WN:PEP, reviewers who do not use their permission for 2 years will have the permission removed. George Ho has notified them about their inactivity as a reviewer around 1 year ago as well as 2 months ago, with no useful response and no reviews done. As such, I am requesting removal of their reviewer permissions. Me Da Wikipedian (talk) 13:26, 21 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Stats

[edit]

Questions and comments

[edit]

Comment I would like to clarify that WN:PEP does not explicitly state that 'reviewers who do not use their permission for 2 years will [emphasis added] have the permission removed.' I also do not feel that PeP is to be used punitively or coercively against those who do not use the permission.

Per the policy, I instead encourage William S. Saturn to re-involve themselves in the reviewing process.

I would further note that William has been otherwise active recently and has had articles of original reporting published as recently as a few weeks ago[8] and another currently under review,[9] albeit under long review. Their last review was well after the latest reviewer standards came into effect in late 2008 to 2009.

I share the frustration with the lack of active reviewers. However, given PeP's stated goals of 1. to ensure familiarity with current practices and 2. to mitigate the risk of compromised accounts, I don't believe removing permissions in this case is either productive or warranted.

I'll wait to see what, if any response we get from the user as well as others. —Michael.C.Wright (Talk/Published) 16:57, 21 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Michael.C.Wright I "also do not feel that PeP is to be used punitively or coercively against those who do not use the permission." Nobody is saying that. William S. Saturn has been encouraged multiple times to reinvolve themselves, and I would be quite happy if this request resulted in that. "Their last review was well after the latest reviewer standards came into effect in late 2008 to 2009" - 12.5 years without reviewing an article will mean you will forget somethings (even if it was true that nothing has changed since early 2012). I believe this is an issue with goal 1. Me Da Wikipedian (talk) 23:15, 21 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
what's the point? the project is basically dead--William S. Saturn (talk) 07:24, 22 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@William S. Saturn whats the point of what? You reviewing articles or this request? Me Da Wikipedian (talk) 17:14, 22 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Without reviewed & published articles, it certainly will be, if it isn't already. —Michael.C.Wright (Talk/Published) 19:24, 22 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Michael.C.Wright I think were on "the project is dead maybe somehow we can kind of revive it" at this point. Me Da Wikipedian (talk) 01:45, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Here's what I'll do. If you can find someone to finish the review of On the campaign trail in the USA, June 2024 then I'll do some reviews.--William S. Saturn (talk) 05:48, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, it is way beyond my knowledge area, I will ask around. Gryllida (talk) 11:04, 25 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@William S. Saturn thats not stale (even by your own 8 week standard). Besides, review is not (and should not be) quid pro quo, if you are only reviewing to get others to review your articles, I am very worried about that. Me Da Wikipedian (talk) 23:07, 25 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
And thus the end of my participation here.--William S. Saturn (talk) 06:06, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@William S. Saturn To be honest, I think you should read this Wikipedia essay, this one as well as this one. You might also want to see this one, this one, and this one. Just replace "Wikipedia" with "Wikinews" and these essays describe what you are doing and what is wrong with it better than I can. Me Da Wikipedian (talk) 19:40, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You don't even understand what William was saying (that he was quitting because the project is dead, exemplified by the June campaign trail article supposedly being stale) or how freshness applies to that article (it's still fresh). So you have a lot of nerve to tell him about en.wp essays he should be reading. Heavy Water (talk) 07:17, 28 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Heavy Water What I do understand is that this user threatens to quit every time they don't get their way, and will demand special treatment. And thats forgetting about seems to think that review is Quid Pro Quo, and threatening to leave if their On the campaign trail in the USA, May 2024 was reviewed by the start of July. Me Da Wikipedian (talk) 11:40, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Side note, I saw this and postponed it in my mind given the more urgent task of publishing. May take more than a day to resolve. Your help copyediting new submissions, helping others copyedit, and adding (and discussing) Reviewer nominations is welcome. --Gryllida (talk) 11:28, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment @Me Da Wikipedian: attempted to create an imposter account to then do this: Wikinews:Flagged revisions/Requests for permissions/Removal/Bddpaux. This really makes it difficult to think they weren't doing it out of spite (despite saying otherwise). This seems to me an attempt to rile up the mob.
•–• 03:56, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Votes

[edit]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


The following discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.



Bddpaux (talk · contribs – Edit rights)

[edit]

I have given this project more than 15 years, but its time to face the facts. Wikinews is a failure. We hardly publish anything at this point and at this point we are not a useful news source. While I believe in citizen journalism, it's time for me to move on.

While I could technically remove my reviewer permissions, for clarity I would appreciate it if someone else could. Bddpaux (talk) 19:24, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Acagastya, Bawolff, Chaetodipus, Cromium, Gryllida, LivelyRatification, Microchip08, RockerballAustralia, SVTCobra, ShakataGaNai, TUFKAAP, Tom Morris, Tyrol5, William S. Saturn:

Closing this request created by an imposter account. This also warranted CUing the user, and after discussing with stewards and other checkusers, this requires admin action.
•–• 03:31, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Stats

[edit]


Questions and comments

[edit]

Can the admins please hold off on actioning this? I'm pretty sure the requesting account (Bdddpaux, using a false sig here) is an impostor's account, not an alt account, and have asked Bddpaux about this. All it's done is redirect its user and talk pages to Bddpaux's, and request the removal of his privs. It's odd to create an alt account, and next, an hour later, announce your retirement. Bddpaux's latest statement on his userpage, two days ago, seems decidedly optimistic, although I have to admit Bdddpaux does a pretty good imitation of some phrases Bddpaux commonly uses, like mentioning his duration of service to the project and saying that he still believes in citizen journalism even at times when he's disillusioned about the project. Heavy Water (talk) 20:07, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Heavy Water I agree with you, but there is a little problem:If Bddpaux did in fact decide to retire, they might not be checking their talk page any time soon. Me Da Wikipedian (talk) 21:05, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
And by the way (if this is in fact an impostor's account) thank you for catching this, because this looks rather believable on the face of it... Me Da Wikipedian (talk) 21:05, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Votes

[edit]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Retrieved from "https://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=Wikinews:Flagged_revisions/Requests_for_permissions&oldid=4797642"