Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sidi Ahmed N'Ulqadi

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was merge to Kingdom of Kuku. Daniel (talk) 05:21, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Sidi Ahmed N'Ulqadi (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

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Not mentioned in given online source; seems like a WP:HOAX or failing that a blatant sourcing fail (WP:V). RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 17:41, 18 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Addendum: Curbon mentions a possible alternate spelling. Obviously, if sources can be found to support an actual article, nothing would prevent that happening; but there's not much use that one sentence with a fake source could have in that. RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 22:53, 18 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 17:55, 18 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment: It seems an alternate spelling may be Sidi Ahmed ou el Khadi. Curbon7 (talk) 18:25, 18 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions. Curbon7 (talk) 18:25, 18 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Royalty and nobility-related deletion discussions. Curbon7 (talk) 18:25, 18 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Algeria-related deletion discussions. Curbon7 (talk) 18:25, 18 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete per nom. This is highly dubious and fails WP:V so it should really be a speedy delete. No Great Shaker (talk) 20:21, 18 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment Sidi is an honorific. Names from Arabic writing are infamous for being transliterated variously. The Roberts reference cited in the article renders this name as Ahmed ou l-Qadi throughout. See, e,g. [1]. Oussedik (2005) renders the name similarly, though I cannot tell from the snippet if that book can serve as significant coverage. French Wikipedia [2] cites an earlier work by Oussedik (Tahar Oussedik, 'Le Royaume De Koukou', p. 7-8-9-10) but I cannot preview it.[3] Not a hoax but also not multiple reliable sources I can point to online. 68.189.242.116 (talk) 17:20, 21 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• What I've learned from previous historical figures' AfDs is that most of the struggle is just figuring out what their actual name was. Curbon7 (talk) 17:43, 21 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• True indeed. And when that name is in a different writing system, such as أحمد بن القاضي, we have the additional issue of figuring out all the different ways it has been romanized at different times by different people. 68.189.242.116 (talk) 18:33, 24 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment unsure but perhaps some info can be brought over from the French Wiki. I brought in some categories and a ref section Lightburst (talk) 21:07, 25 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep - Based on my searches, there are several French-language texts that validate the subject of this article. A precise verification can be made from this text, in the fifth paragraph: En haute Kabylie, le royaume de Koukou, fonde par Sidi Ahmed ou el Kadhi - In upper Kabylie, the Kingdom of Kuku, founded by Sidi Ahmed N'Ulqadi. On page 10 of this text, the founder of Kuku is given as "Ahmed-ben-el-Qadi", almost certainly an alternate translation of the same name - see Curbon7's comment above. Given this I feel like there is a bit more to go off of, so deletion should be withheld as verification is now possible. /Tpdwkouaa (talk) 23:55, 25 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Pinging No Great Shaker and Lightburst in case they find this update worthy of reassessment. /Tpdwkouaa (talk) 23:58, 25 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

It would be helpful if you put RS it in the article. Sometimes an AfD brings sources that are never put in the article, and then the article remains a stub. But if we can build it it makes a stronger case. Lightburst (talk) 00:05, 26 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Is that all there is? If all the information we have about this person is that they were the founder of this kingdom, that probable doesn't warrant a separate article. The second of your sources has Le royaume de Koukou fut fondé en 1510 par Ahmed-ben-el-Qadi, qui était juge à la cour des derniers rois de Bougie. Lors de la prise de cette ville, le 6 janvier 1509, il s'était réfugié chez les Qbails des Ait-Ghoubri, à Aourir: il était devenu le chef d'une confédération puissante., but that's very little, and (take a look at WP:NOPAGE), it should probably be merged or redirected with the kingdom article (the only information about this character is indeed in relation with the foundation of the kingdom).. RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 01:51, 26 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, —⁠ScottyWong⁠— 05:48, 4 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Merge to Kingdom of Kuku. WP:PAGEDECIDE - just because a topic is notable doesn't mean the best way to deal with it need be to give it its own page. Both this page and that for his kingdom are a grand total of one line of text, with much the same content and a sole identical citation. That simply adding the phrase "with Sidi Ahmed N'Ulqadi as its sultan" to the end second sentence of Kingdom of Kuku would transfer all of the unique content of this page to the other indicates that there is little point in preserving these as separate single-sentence micro-stubs unless/until more potential content is identified. This may be a temporary state, but if this kingdom only lasted the duration of this sultan's reign, then it could well be the best way to deal with it permanently. Agricolae (talk) 14:57, 7 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• Merge to Kingdom of Kuku per the nominator's comment and directly above. Minor clarificatiom: The cited text states a longer duration for the kingdom than a single ruler, See Roberts (2014) ("The 'kingdom' of Koukou that was established by the Ath l-Qadi dynasty and lasted for over a century (c 1515-1632 or 1638 CE) ...."). 68.189.242.116 (talk) 17:35, 7 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• Merge to Kingdom of Kuku per above. Caleb Stanford (talk) 22:40, 14 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.