Talk:Liz Fong-Jones
| This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Liz Fong-Jones article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
| Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
| This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
 | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
.jpg){kind=small}
 | The following Wikipedia contributor may be personally or professionally connected to the subject of this article. Relevant policies and guidelines may include conflict of interest, autobiography, and neutral point of view.
|
| This article should adhere to the gender identity guideline because it contains material about one or more trans women. Precedence should be given to self-designation as reported in the most up-to-date reliable sources, anywhere in article space, even when it doesn't match what's most common in reliable sources. Any person whose gender might be questioned should be referred to by the pronouns, possessive adjectives, and gendered nouns (for example "man/woman", "waiter/waitress", "chairman/chairwoman") that reflect that person's latest expressed gender self-identification. Some people go by singular they pronouns, which are acceptable for use in articles. This applies in references to any phase of that person's life, unless the subject has indicated a preference otherwise. Former, pre-transition names may only be included if the person was notable while using the name; outside of the main biographical article, such names should only appear once, in a footnote or parentheses.If material violating this guideline is repeatedly inserted, or if there are other related issues, please report the issue to the LGBTQ+ WikiProject, or, in the case of living people, to the BLP noticeboard. |
 | Warning: active arbitration remedies The contentious topics procedure applies to this article. This article is related to gender-related disputes or controversies or people associated with them, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing this article:
Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page. |
Notability
editI know there are secondary sources about this but why is there a wikipedia biography of a single ex-google employee? WhiskeyFoxtrot7 (talk) 19:53, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
- You've answered your own question: because there are secondary sources. See WP:GNG. GorillaWarfare (she/her • talk) 00:25, 3 September 2022 (UTC)
Ridiculous to have a biography about an ex Google employee. Paige Matheson (talk) 17:37, 3 September 2022 (UTC)
- Why is that? We have many. GorillaWarfare (she/her • talk) 17:50, 3 September 2022 (UTC)
She is really not notable for an article. Saint concrete (talk) 23:49, 17 November 2022 (UTC)
- Agreed. Also, why are her controversies not listed here? This seems to be a rather biased article. 190.213.140.224 (talk) 00:27, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
Vanity page
editThis is pretty clearly written by the subject of this article. 2607:FEA8:F86:DC00:F1EF:F5C2:DF08:F1F0 (talk) 06:28, 2 September 2022 (UTC)
- It's pretty clearly not, but feel free to bring up specific concerns with the article that you think need addressing if you'd like to accomplish something productive here. GorillaWarfare (she/her • talk) 00:28, 3 September 2022 (UTC)
Will point out that I have a user account on Wikipedia, have disclosed my conflicts of interest (and thus avoid editing this article or any of the others named in my user page), and if you believe one of the article authors is somehow my sock you are welcome to make a more specific allegation that can be sorted out with WP:CHECKUSER. Lizthegrey (talk) 00:46, 3 September 2022 (UTC)
The fact that the subject of this article monitors their own talk page is pretty telling of a vanity page — Preceding unsigned comment added by WhiskeyFoxtrot7 (talk • contribs) 20:01, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
- Monitoring edits to a page about oneself is reasonable for any biographical subject, but particularly for a trans woman of color who has been a frequent subject of transphobic harassment. Funcrunch (talk) 20:12, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
- I monitor the page about me and I certainly didn't write it. It's a very reasonable thing to do, especially for people who face a large number of people hoping to attack their reputation. GorillaWarfare (she/her • talk) 20:28, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
Factual inaccuracy regarding college
editI take no particular stance on any particular opinions people wish to place in an article about me, but it's trivially disprovable that I attended college "in the Bay Area" before dropping out to work at Google; my LinkedIn shows that I list myself as having attended Caltech in Pasadena from 2005-2007, and you can also verify through at least one third party source that I was a member of Blacker House. Figured I'd point out something that might damage the credibility of the rest of the article. Lizthegrey (talk) 08:30, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
- Done Thanks for pointing out the error. GorillaWarfare (she/her • talk) 14:19, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
- Shouldn't we be using Reliable Sources WP:RS for these types of statements? The NYT article says: "After all, she has worked full-time at Google and is now finishing her degree at M.I.T." but has no more details than that. LinkedIn is a WP:SPS.
- Additionally, Lizthegrey: could you please add a COI flag to this talk page so that it will be easy for newcomers to see? Thanks! ---Avatar317(talk) 23:41, 6 September 2022 (UTC)
- Done Added template as per request. Lizthegrey (talk) 04:50, 7 September 2022 (UTC)
- @Avatar317: See WP:ABOUTSELF. GorillaWarfare (she/her • talk) 22:31, 7 September 2022 (UTC)
Misleading statement in the article
editIn the "Google Ideological Echo Chamber" section, the previous revision read (emphasis mine):
Fong-Jones said that while the activism always created tension, it turned hostile in 2017 following James Damore's Google's Ideological Echo Chamber memo, which argued that women lacked innate qualities to be engineers using talking points from evolutionary psychology.
The three inline citations provided did not support this at all. Using a Gizmodo ref (that also includes the text of the memo), I have boldy edited it to read (emphasis mine):
Fong-Jones said that while the activism always created tension, it turned hostile in 2017 following James Damore's Google's Ideological Echo Chamber memo, which he argued that women are underrepresented in tech because of inherent psychological differences between men and women rather than bias, using talking points from evolutionary psychology.
— Python Drink (talk) 23:11, 12 October 2022 (UTC)
- I've reverted your change because it was copied word for word from the source. Also, Damore said this: "Throughout the document, by “tech”, I mostly mean software engineering." 107.122.81.92 (talk) 01:02, 13 October 2022 (UTC)
- Really? I'm aware of the importance of copyright on Wikipedia. I tried expressing it in my own words. But if you say so, I'll add it back after making substantial differences. — Python Drink (talk) 14:46, 13 October 2022 (UTC)
“White boy” links to weird neo-Nazi group
editCan anybody explain why the term white boy in this article links to a weird neo-Nazi group? Is the reader to make the assumption that all “white boys” are members of this group, or that anyone using the term is a neo-Nazi? Was the term used in the context of calling other Google staff members of a neo-Nazi group? That isn’t explained at all in the article.
It’s rather akin to having the instance of “Muslim” in the article link to ISIS/Daesh, i.e. ridiculous. 2A04:4A43:537F:E43F:8D9F:3977:ED89:FB28 (talk) 11:12, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
- Not sure, I've removed it. Thanks for raising it. GorillaWarfare (she/her • talk) 14:21, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
RfPP
editFor transparency, disclosing that I've lodged Wikipedia:Requests for page protection/Increase#Liz Fong-Jones since there has indeed been an uptick in IP edits since my name was put on the front page of the kiwifarms domain this morning. Will accept if there's not yet consensus that protections are needed, but there's already been the need to oversight 2 changes due to WP:RD2/WP:RD3 so far this morning. Lizthegrey (talk) 23:39, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
Typo fix request
edit| This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered. |
"RelayRide" should be "RelayRides". Lizthegrey (talk) 17:54, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
Date of birth
editGiven the subject of the article is an active editor who watched this page I'm confused as to how we don't have the precise birth year. lizthegrey do you prefer to keep your birth year private or is there just no public mention of it? It's not a big deal or anything but it seems like an omission that could be easily fixed, assuming you don't prefer to not have it known. XeCyranium (talk) 21:19, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
- It's 1987 and if you need a more proper secondary source rather than relying upon that time I got doxxed, I recently discussed the year (but not the month or day) on the Gender Reveal podcast.[1] lizthegrey (talk) 21:32, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks for that, I'll put it in the article now. XeCyranium (talk) 01:31, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
References
- ^ Tuck Woodstock (18 March 2024). "Liz Fong-Jones" (Podcast). Gender Reveal. Event occurs at 00:11:40.
Sources Cleanup
editSources 1, 6, 46 (as of the time of this writing) are unreliable, being links to random websites, blogs, or Youtube videos, which are not considered reliable by Wikipedia editors' consensus.
Sources 3, 21 are down entirely and unreachable.
Source 4 is an archiving of a tweet, which is about as far removed from reliable as a source can be. Sources 50 and 53 seem sketchy, given that the site has no obvious references pointing to its legitimacy as a reliable source.
These need to be removed. Could somebody familiar with proper writing/editing do that? I would do it myself, but I'm not familiar enough with writing etiquette.
2A02:810A:129C:1200:291D:4EDE:E9F5:D08F (talk) 13:07, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
- See WP:ABOUTSELF for policy on sourcing of non-contentious facts, and #Date of birth, #Factual inaccuracy regarding college for where addition of these self-published sources was discussed. For obvious reasons recusing from discussion of the remaining concerns. lizthegrey (talk) 15:58, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
- WP:ABOUTSELF does not apply to sources 3, 6, 21, 46, 50 and 53, with each of them failing at least one of the five requirements. I am unfamiliar with the policy regarding using Wikipedia talk pages as a source for information that does adhere to WP:ABOUTSELF in regards to the birth year. The college information does not seem to fulfill its requirements, something I don't seem to be alone on, as the issue was raised by another editor in the same section you linked.
- 2A02:810A:129C:1200:30B4:6155:799D:4949 (talk) 10:16, 11 December 2024 (UTC)