Talk:List of Hollows in Bleach

I'm spanish, and in Spain, a Gamuza is a piece of soft cloth you use to clean mainly cars, expensive wooden furnitures and glasses. It may come because originally, the skin of a Gamo (fallow deer) was used to this purpose. I know that as a word, "Gamuza" sounds strong... but any spanish who owned a car, wear glasses or has to clean his house was laughting when they saw the liberation.

I add some links to prove my point. http://www.manuelvarcas.com/img/83001G.gif http://www.solostocks.com/img/kit-spray-gamuza-limpiador-de-pantallas-luminia-portes-incluidos-4087626z0.jpg (Top Right Corner: 'Spray + Gamuza') http://www.tecnijoy.net/images/V80037-.jpg (Gamuza para limpiar plata : Gamuza for cleaning silver objects)

The Gamuza cloth is also used to make soft clothing (Gamuza Boots was a fever: Those are soft and warm) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.127.207.152 (talk) 08:37, 26 October 2012 (UTC)Reply

I have realized, like alot of other people, that many names are incorrectly romanized, or are using their commonly mispelled names.

Here are the names I have found with their correct names after them.

• Barragan Luisenbarn = Baraggan Luisenbarn
• Nelliel Tu Odelschwank = Nelliel Tu Oderschvank
• Nnoitora Jiruga = Nnoitra Jiruga
• Grimmjow Jeagerjaques = Grimmjow Jaegerjaquez
• Szayelaporro Grantz = Szayel Aporro Granz
• Rudobone = Rudobōn
• Sonido = Sonído (An attack)
• Shawlong Qufang = Shawlong Kūfang
• D-Roy Linker = Di Roy Linker
• Ilfort Grantz = Yylfordt Granz
• Nakim Greendina = Nakeem Greendina
• Edorad Leones = Edrad Liones
• Dordoni Alessandro Del Socacchio = Dordonii Alessandro Del Socacchio

These are the correct spelling on the Bleach Wiki, and therefore are the most common and accurate. Please take renaming the characters into these into consideration. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.69.35.83 (talk) 00:05, 12 December 2009 (UTC)Reply

For all of the "misspellings" you listed that have appeared in the English Shonen Jump, they are not to be romanized. I would imagine that (haven't learned every rule of Wikipedia yet) we are to use the English names since this is the English Wiki, afterall. For all names that have yet to be mentioned in the English serialization, there is no way to tell what they will be, and I don't know how it would be decided which spelling to use. Spindori (talk) 01:37, 12 December 2009 (UTC)Reply

Agree with Spin, this is the English Wiki so we use what Viz uses. Its the official translation whether people like it or not. For the ones who have not had their names within Bleach yet, i.e. Nelliel, then we use official merchandise, which has her name as "Odelschwank". As For Baraggan, I put this up in this Talk to see what people thought about changing it, and it looks like "Official Gum Cards" aren't seen as much of a source.

Edit - The Bleach wiki is well known for added speculation in its articles, so to call that place "accurate" is slightly off. DaisukeVulgar (talk) 16:53, 12 December 2009 (UTC)Reply

Well, Nelliel's name has been declared officially to be Nelliel Tu Odelschwanck, so we can take her off of the list. As for Grimmjow, this image clarifies the actual spelling of his name. [1] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.69.35.83 (talk) 03:32, 20 December 2009 (UTC)Reply

The ones to be followed are the English ones like how we use Soul Reaper instead of shinigami.Tintor2 (talk) 19:00, 31 December 2009 (UTC)Reply

Or how about this we use how the author spelled them because he is the author. And anyways most people are going to mispronounce these names even if you do use "viz" ranslation. And for the record your romatinizing by changing it to be more "english". If you don't like what I say to bad I've wanted to say it awhile. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 167.29.4.150 (talk) 21:47, 2 August 2010 (UTC)Reply

I have corrected some of the names. You cannot say the Bleach wiki is well known for adding speculation. I am a member of the policies and standards committee over there. We have a very strict speculation policy. Head over there if you want the rest of the corrected names. All names came from official sources such as covers drawn by Kubo and the Masked databook. There is no speculation over there and if you see any, let us know and we will immediately remove it. Also, you should not use the word Soul Reaper. Shinigami does not mean soul reaper. It means Death God or Death Spirit. Viz came up with Soul Reaper as they though it sounded better.150.212.50.52 (talk) 17:42, 24 September 2010 (UTC)Reply

May I ask you to explain the Wikipedia policy which states that an author's decisions outwithstand regional ones. I am aware only of WP:EN. Until then, I will maintain the names with the English Shonen Jump (magazine)'s naming decisions, and the Japanese will be noted. Spindori (talk) 21:46, 24 September 2010 (UTC)Reply

So let me get this straight. You do not go by what an author names their characters but rather you go by what they get unofficially romanized as? That is stupid. Tite Kubo decides how his characters are named and how they are romanized. Viz, who does the english distribution, has not chosen to update the names as they felt that it would confuse readers. Every single one of there names is a translation but a mistranslation of Viz's part. Why would you keep a mistranslation? I can upload Kubo's covers with the correct romanizations if you would like. Kubo clearl intended for his characters to be named Coyote Starrk, Baraggan Luisenbarn, Tia Harribel, Ulquiorra Cifer, Nnoitra Gilga, Grimmjow Jaquejaquez, Zommari Reroux, Szayelapporo Granz, Aaroniero Arruruerie and Yammy Llargo. Some of these were revealed on covers and some were revealed in the latest character book. Do you not acknowledge that Masked exists either?

Edit- this comes from your own policy

Names not originally in a Latin alphabet, as with Greek, Chinese or Russian, must be transliterated into characters generally intelligible to literate speakers of English. Established systematic transliterations (e.g. Hanyu Pinyin and IAST) are preferred. Nonetheless, do not substitute a systematically transliterated name for the common English form of the name, if there is one; thus, use Tchaikovsky or Chiang Kai-shek even though those are unsystematic.

The name changes I have proposed are the transliterated versions. They were converted from Japaneese to a romanization. You are using the English form. According to this policy it needs to be replaced. Therefore the character names should be as I have said. If you want the correct names, go to Bleach Wiki and search for Bleach Wiki:Masked Project. That is where we have the correct forms for many of the Hollows and Arrancars. Other than that the Espada pages are all correct aside from I believe Yammy's which we are in the process of doing. --150.212.50.163 (talk) 00:42, 25 September 2010 (UTC)Reply

Just dropping a link for the Manual of Style on Japanese articles. Prior to that section on transliteration, this bit is there which applies to naming within the prose: "The {title of an article} should generally use the version of the name of the subject which is most common in the English language, as you would find it in reliable sources". To re-iterate what others have said, this is an English Wikipedia and if there are official English names given for the characters we must use those names regardless of any discrepancy that arises. Just tag a little note saying the name is spelled differently in the original medium with appropriate sourcing backing it up. Remember to be neutral. VIZ may or may not have translated the names correctly but they hold the license and they pump out the official English names so we use them. Fox816 (talk) 06:45, 25 September 2010 (UTC)Reply

Except that viz is not a reliable source as they are known to have troubles with translations and technically what are on the page right now are not English names. They are unofficial Romanizations. That is what you seem to understand. They are all romanizations of the japaneese, translated by one group. Just because Viz is the english distributor does not mean we should put false information on articles. If we are going by most common in the English language we must go by what the scanlators say and the scanlators have most of what I have been saying. The fact here is that these names are not English but are just incorrect Romanizations which were fixed upon the release of masked--150.212.50.163 (talk) 07:15, 25 September 2010 (UTC)Reply

Keep in mind Wiki strives for verifiability and not truth. Read again what a reliable source is and reconsider your statement that the published official English source for the manga is not a reliable source. If there are discrepancies than add it into the prose and source them properly. Please also remember that no editor can use copyright violations as sources. The scanlations (there seem to be a lot, are they all the same?) can't be linked to whatsoever so our verifiability is none if we go that route. Fox816 (talk) 22:34, 25 September 2010 (UTC)Reply

I still maintain that Viz is not reliable. They are known for being bad with Romanziations. If you would like. I have scans of the MASKED Databook in its original japaneese with the character names officially romanized. If verifiability is what you strive for, then what better way to verify something than to have the author's original content. Masked would be the most official source for all of this information as well as the chapter covers. I also have scans of those. Each chapter cover is a picture of a character with their officially romanized name drawn and written by Tite Kubo himself. I can show you all each an every one of those. Viz is the most unreliable due to them being so far behind in their released volumes. Has Viz even released the Bootleg in english? And yes, all the scanlators, Ju-Ni, Maximum 7, C-Net, Sleepyfans, Binktopia and others use the names I have pointed out as they come from Tite Kubo--150.212.50.163 (talk) 01:20, 26 September 2010 (UTC)Reply

The Masked names can be noted in the prose as an mention of a differing romanization. Regardless of your feelings about VIZ, they are to be considered a reliable source for the English names due to them pumping out the works itself. We're following policy and guidelines here. The most common English names for these characters are the ones set by the English manga and anime. We have the sources to back them up. As you say, we also have proper sourcing for a differing ("more accurate") romanization. That can all be included in the prose and would improve the article overall. Your asking to get all of the most common official English names to be changed out to ones more common in Japan or the least common in English. Even if ignorance can be invoked, there's still a middle road that improves the article and that's by using both names. Just add the info in and cite it like everything else. We can't delete the Viz names because they're "wrong". Just as your arguing for the correct romanizations, the VIZ ones are as justifiable if not even more so. Fox816 (talk) 06:36, 26 September 2010 (UTC)Reply

Alright, I will try this one last time. Here is how japanese works. It is written in Kanji. To get an english name from there, you romanize the kanji. You do not translate it. Romanization can be difficult but there is only one real correct form. Viz is using out of date romanizations that were confirmed by the author of the series to not be the real romanizations. I implore you one last time, please change the names to their correct versions or at the very least link all of them to The Bleach Wiki so that people can see the real names for these characters. People coming to this page are most likely to not be using Viz but rather the scanlators which use the japanese media. They deserve to know the truth--150.212.72.23 (talk) 07:30, 8 December 2010 (UTC)Reply

Whether you believe the rominization of the names are "wrong" or not is irrelevant. The Bleach articles will use the names as translated by Viz Manga in accordance with Wikipedia's policies because these will be the names used by reliable English-language sources. The Bleach Wikia is not a reliable source and neither are scanlations. —Farix (t | c) 13:32, 8 December 2010 (UTC

See that is the thing, the names you have are not translated you do not translate japanese, you romanize the kanji. The translation is different. The one I know of is Jushiro Ukitake. That is the romanization of the kanji, the translation of the kanji is fourteenth son. According to you, you use the translations so Ukitake's name would have to be changed to fourteenth son. Captain Fourteenth Son, doesn't sound right does it. You get Jushiro Ukitake by romanizing the kanji. I have already shown in your policies how my change is needed. Also, how is the bleach wiki not a reliable source? We use the japanese media instead of Viz so we are more reliable than wikipedia. You guys still don't know that ichigo has lost his powers because you refuse to use the weekly chapter. All of our information is referenced and is updated to the most recent chapter. All information is updated after the release of each volume and its verifiable since you guys don't care for the truth. We have the correct romanizations AS WRITTEN BY THE AUTHOR OF THE SERIES. I would think he would constitute as a reliable source--150.212.72.23 (talk) 17:31, 8 December 2010 (UTC)Reply

No wikia or wiki clasifies as a reliable as like wikipedia, its edited by users. Actually, the info regarding Ichigo's loss is actually but that's completely out of context. In contrast to wikia, here references have to be specific so that any common reader and not just fans can find the info from the series.Tintor2 (talk) 17:58, 8 December 2010 (UTC)Reply

Two things, so you admit that wikipedia is not a reliable source, and 2, references on Bleach wiki are very specific, they go Bleach man, Chapter #, page #. You cannot get more specific than that. Also I am going to let you in on a little secret, Bleach wiki is not all that editable vy anyone, its cannot be edited unless you have an account and all revisions are checked by admins and members of the policy and standards committee. If anything is wrong it is taken down immediately.--150.212.72.23 (talk) 18:02, 8 December 2010 (UTC)Reply

When did I say wikipedia was reliable? I think one of wikipedia's selfnotes is that it is not reliable. Actually, here we have to get more specific because wikipedia covers more things that Bleach and so we have to source the exact books, isbns, authors, publishers, page, etc. However, this discussion is really out-of-context. If you don't like wikipedia, then why discuss this?Tintor2 (talk) 18:05, 8 December 2010 (UTC)Reply

My point is that I can have all that information, We have all the japanese volumes on bleach wiki with their isbn number, the author obviously being tite kubo and we have the page numbers. All I am saying is that these names are out of date. Viz itself is out of date because it does not regularly release volumes. Some of these are even wrong according to Viz. Tia Harribel's name in viz is Tai Hallibel not Tia Halibel. Viz uses the names that all the scanlators originally got wrong as well and stuck with them for some reason. Then MASKED came out and corrected all of them in clearly printed out romanizations. Wikipedia should strive for the most up to date, accurate, verifiable information. Viz is out of date and not accurate--150.212.72.23 (talk) 18:17, 8 December 2010 (UTC)Reply

Then this is more out of topic (considering you keep mentioning another site). If you have an issue with the guidelines, then discuss it in the project.Tintor2 (talk) 18:21, 8 December 2010 (UTC)Reply

How is this out of topic. The topic is incorrectly romanized names and here I am saying you have incorrectly romanized names--150.212.72.23 (talk) 18:25, 8 December 2010 (UTC)Reply

Because you are discussing guidelines which were not made in this page. They were made in the project of anime and manga.Tintor2 (talk) 18:28, 8 December 2010 (UTC)Reply

The names in the article are accurate as they are the names as published by the official licensor, Viz Manga. Just because you dislike the translations does not change the fact that is how Viz Manga chose to translate the names. What goes on at another Wikia is irrelevant to Wikipedia. How scanlators chose to translate the names is also irrelevant to Wikipedia. When Viz itself begins to use different translation, and other reliable English-language sources—such as Anime News Network and Mania—follow suit, then the those changes will be documented by the Wikipedia along with the original translations. —Farix (t | c) 21:34, 8 December 2010 (UTC)Reply

The following response to "See that is the thing, the names you have are not translated you do not translate japanese, you romanize the kanji. The translation is different. The one I know of is Jushiro Ukitake. That is the romanization of the kanji, the translation of the kanji is fourteenth son. According to you, you use the translations so Ukitake's name would have to be changed to fourteenth son. Captain Fourteenth Son, doesn't sound right does it. You get Jushiro Ukitake by romanizing the kanji. I have already shown in your policies how my change is needed. Also, how is the bleach wiki not a reliable source? We use the japanese media instead of Viz so we are more reliable than wikipedia. You guys still don't know that ichigo has lost his powers because you refuse to use the weekly chapter. All of our information is referenced and is updated to the most recent chapter. All information is updated after the release of each volume and its verifiable since you guys don't care for the truth. We have the correct romanizations AS WRITTEN BY THE AUTHOR OF THE SERIES. I would think he would constitute as a reliable source--150.212.72.23 (talk) 17:31, 8 December 2010 (UTC)"" face="Verdana">God]] (Pray) 02:25, 12 December 2010 (UTC)Reply

This is in response to comments [left on my talk page

No, it is you who didn't read the relevant policies, such as WP:COMMONNAME. WP:COMMONNAME states that articles should use the name most commonly used by English-language reliable sources. Since English-language reliable sources will use the Viz Media translations, that is the version of the names Wikipedia must use. To use names not commonly used by English-language reliable sources will require a fundamental change in Wikipedia's policies. MOS:AM acknowledges this policy applies to names within an article as well. You will need a much better argument than the one you've been arguing as to why WP:COMMONNAME shouldn't be followed. —Farix (t | c) 12:51, 10 December 2010 (UTC) Amended 02:56, 12 December 2010 (UTC)Reply

Farix, you say that "articles should use the name most commonly used by English-language reliable sources", such as Viz Media. Viz Media has not made a translation of the MASKED databook yet, so the fact that Loly Aivirnne and Menoly Mallia have their last names listed on Wikipedia is contradicting your statement. Aivirnne and Mallia are not commonly used by English-language reliable sources because the MASKED databook has not been released in America yet. If Loly and Menoly's last names are listed, then the correct romanizations should be listed as well, as both are coming from MASKED. Putting Viz Media as a more reliable source than Tite Kubo himself is comparable to believing that Viz is more reliable than a series's creator. If Tite Kubo wishes Grimmjow's last name, for example, to be Jaegerjaquez, then that should be considered the most reliable spelling of the last name as it is comming directly from the author himself. If Viz Media is to give Grimmjow the last name Jeagerjaques and Jeagerjaques being considered more accurate than Jaegerjaquez, then that should not, for Jeagerjaques is not the spelling as Tite Kubo, the author of the series, has proclaimed to be. 68.109.29.160 (talk) 04:24, 26 December 2010 (UTC)Reply

The part about "English-language," regarding reliable sources, is an important bit you seem to miss. Wikipedia (we) shall use whatever Viz (the only reliable source that is in English) uses, given that it is widely recognizable. For all names, titles, etc. that have not been given an English source (i.e. Aivirnne, Mallia, etc.), we use what is available. So we only use the Japanese-main designations when there is no English-main. The Japanese designations are still always to be noted if the differences/names are worth quality standards to have a mention in the article. Spindori (talk) 20:50, 26 December 2010 (UTC)Reply

The MASKED databook came out in English now. Can we change the names now?--184.56.245.182 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 23:24, 19 July 2012 (UTC)Reply

Well I'm not going to make this a big proposal. But would it be better to Split out the Espadas from this article and leave a short summary of them on here?Bread Ninja (talk) 09:53, 5 September 2011 (UTC)Reply

Do you think we should list the Fraccion of the Espadas on the article page? Rtkat3 (talk) 4:27, September 24 2011 (UTC)

He is a frictional king of the Sage of 3 Part which is a 3 coloured gem that have the colours;yellow,red and blue. Each of the powers have a different role power and can be spliced among 3 people and him with the power of all the three prowess or the power splited among 2 people and him have the colour blue Tsuro123 (talk) 17:14, 21 January 2020 (UTC)Reply