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Lemurs of Madagascar (book)

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Lemurs of Madagascar (book) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

As of 12 December 2024, 18:34 (UTC), this page is active and open for discussion. A FAR coordinator will advance or close this nomination when consensus is reached.
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Notified: Maky (page creator/nominator; formerly "VisionHolder"), Primates, Madagascar

"Bloated article; uses the [Mittermeier] book that is the subject of article 44 times, out of about the 60 references given. Contains excessive detail and primary sourcing."

— Possibly (talk · contribs), May 2021 (links added for context by yours truly)

Cleanup-tag note says it all. Original article creator/FA nominator, Maky (talk · contribs), has been on WP in highly reduced capacity since late 2015.

P.S. Can't believe it's been 17 years and change since I last sent a page for review... Slgrandson (How's my egg-throwing coleslaw?) 07:58, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If folks think it merits keeping in some form, I'd be happy to take a pass at cutting it down -- way down. Much of it reads as puffery, and a lot of it redundant. I think there's some factual information that would be worth keeping, though.
I'm not in the habit of gutting a page like I would want to do with this one, so just putting that out there. Monkeywire (talk) 19:44, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Monkeywire: I'd support someone going through and cutting down the prose: there is too much puffery, and the "Overview" section should probably be renamed to "Background" and refocused. Z1720 (talk) 02:28, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I took a stab at editing. (It's so much easier to cut than to write!). Apologies in advance for any errors, but I think it's in better shape than it was before. Monkeywire (talk) 16:51, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Just adding for the record that I think this is worth keeping now that it's not so bloated Monkeywire (talk) 18:39, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Slgrandson: Do the edits made address your concerns? Nikkimaria (talk) 14:05, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Nikkimaria: Better off. (Attempting to reach @Maky so that we can remind him of the progress, but an immediate reply is hardly guaranteed as he last edited in April.) --Slgrandson (How's my egg-throwing coleslaw?) 16:46, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: I see an unsourced paragraph in "Editions". I also think the "Reception" section could be expanded upon, considering that several reviews are already used as inline citations. Z1720 (talk) 03:05, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment @Slgrandson: I've gone ahead and undone Monkeywire's changes while performing a very substantial but much more surgical cutdown of the article. It was bloated beyond belief, but I believe Monkeywire's decision to relegate the entire 'Reception' section to a paragraph and the entire summary/contents to a bullet pointed list of chapters dramatically hurt the article's comprehensiveness and turned it into something more akin to a C-class article (through no fault of their own; there really was so much extraneous stuff there). Some highlights of the changes I've made include:
  • Word count and character count in the prose are both down a smidge over 28% (~21,050 characters down to ~15,100 and ~3,310 words down to ~2,240).
  • I believe I have done this while retaining all the points which were present when this article was first reviewed.
  • I do not believe this article could now be meaningfully reduced further without losing relevant, useful information.
  • The brick wall of listed authors which made the 'Overview' section effectively unreadable has been moved into three explanatory footnotes – one for each edition. I believe this information about the authors is highly relevant and should remain but that it undeniably cannot remain in the prose.
  • The descriptions of the appendices have been completely stripped out, as they were effectively obvious by the appendix titles alone.
  • The mention of a Lemur News announcement has been removed owing to the fact that a sales pitch written by the book's authors does not constitute 'Reception'.
  • The awkward, dangling lead paragraph of the 'Content' section about the front and back covers has been neatly folded into an already-existing sentence, so the section now starts with the "Introduction".
  • The block quote from the "Introduction" section has been shortened and naturally folded into the sentence prior to where it originally was.
  • Very obvious tangents such as how many lemurs a reviewer had spotted as well as tautologies such as (paraphrased) "this field guide helps identify lemurs in the field" have been taken out.
  • Statements that could be expressed in substantially fewer words without loss of clarity have been amended.
  • Not relevant to bloat per se, but I revised the summary of Lisa Gould's review to – I think – better reflect what she wrote.
My vote in the article's current state is to Keep the featured article status, as I believe it is now an excellent reference for this book's publication history, contents, reception, and impact on primatology. I tried to be descriptive with my edit summaries, so please feel free to peruse and see if you approve of the changes I've made. TheTechnician27 (Talk page) 22:02, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Not extremely familiar with FA standards, but I think the improvements above are very good and I would vote to maintain the status as a FA. I can't point out any problems. PARAKANYAA (talk) 21:40, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • With or without further input from Slgrandson, we'll need additional viewpoints in order to arrive at consensus whether your changes satisfy the FA criteria. You could try posting a neutral message at a broader WikiProject like Biology or Books to see if anyone is able to weigh in. Nikkimaria (talk) 03:16, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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