User talk:Spleennn

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Thanks and have a nice day! Grk1011 (talk) 14:33, 10 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Spleennn. Thank you for being an active contributor on the country per year articles of the ESC. I contact you because of your recent edits in the article France in the Eurovision Song Contest 1958. I undid your edit because no inline citation for the changes made in the results table was provided. You undid my edit again. I don’t want to end this in an edit war, so I would like to discuss the matter with you.

You certainly agree that we should stick to Wikipedia’s policies. These state clearly that an inline citation for each new material must be provided (in this case in the header of the table like it is usually done for tables here on Wikipedia), see WP:PROVEIT. It is not sufficient to provide the source in the edit summary nor is it sufficient to provide the reference only in a different paragraph of the article if that other paragraph doesn’t include the same statements/material. In case you want to use the same source on the same page twice, please look at WP:REFNAME to see how you can proceed.

As to the source used (eurovisionartists.nl), there is also a slight issue with its reliability. Per WP:RS, sources should be reliable. When looking on the national final entry for France 1958 on eurovisionartists.nl, and its other national final pages, I find pages where some work of original research and verification has obviously been done, such as on Germany 1956 but also some whose information is either outdated or utterly wrong, such as United Kingdom 1956. As for the specific case of France 1958, eurovisionartists.nl doesn’t mention any sources for its information so it’s entirely unclear whether the text was just copied from somewhere else on the internet, whether an author has spent time to research the information, who the author is and when the page was written or updated last time. This contributes to the impression that the content and its presentation on eurovisionartists regarding this national final is not carefully made, and therefore its reliability can be questioned.

Since eurovisionartists.nl has a database with pages on nearly all national finals ever held, the question of its reliability must be resolved not only for the case of France 1958 but for all the country per year articles in Eurovision. So the scope of that question is much bigger.

The WikiProject Eurovision lists reliable sources on a dedicated Sources page: WP:WikiProject Eurovision/Sources

eurovisionartists.nl has not yet been assessed there. Therefore I opened a new topic on the talk page of WikiProject Eurovision/Sources. Until a consensus has been reached there, you are welcome to also have your say over there! --EurovisionLibrarian (talk) 14:48, 10 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've voiced my opinion on WP:WikiProject Eurovision/Sources. I had found songwriter information for 4/5 of the songs in the French 1958 national final on https://www.discogs.com/ and they matched up with the songwriters listed on eurovisionartists.nl so I assumed that the other song would be accurate too. I am unsure of the reliability of discogs.com as a source on wikipedia but if a release has images attached then I tend to believe the information to be reliable. Spleennn (talk) 21:08, 10 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The problem with Discogs is that it is explicitely mentioned as an example "of unacceptable user-generated sources" on WP:UCG.

As for the reliability of eurovisionartists.nl and natfinals.50webs.com, we don't have a consensus yet on the dedicated sources talk page so I would like wait for a few days until other express their opinion.

As to the other point, the formal way of making the citation, the present state of the article gives the impression that all information in the results table comes from the AV broadcast (whose reference is given in the table header), and this is not correct. In the meantime, you should correct your edit as quickly as possible by including the citation for eurovisionartists in the table header to avoid misleading readers. Otherwise the additional information you brought into the table would have to seen as unsourced, and unsourced material must be removed. EurovisionLibrarian (talk) 09:35, 11 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have removed the eurovisionartists.nl ciation for now and replaced it with two citations for two vinyl releases according to Template:Cite AV media which cover three of the songs. Spleennn (talk) 10:46, 11 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]