Talk:1969 World Snooker Championship

1969 World Snooker Championship has been listed as one of the Sports and recreation good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. Review: July 14, 2021. (Reviewed version).

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This search https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/search/results/1969-03-01/1969-03-31?basicsearch=%22victoria%22%20%22southampton%20row%22&exactsearch=false&retrievecountrycounts=false shows that the Victoria Hall in question was in Southampton Row, presumably the one in Bloomsbury. We have an article Victoria House, London which is in Southampton Row. However, I'm still struggling to find out where the Victoria Hall was. Nigej (talk) 21:45, 28 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This search https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/search/results?basicsearch=%22southampton%20row%22%20%22victoria%20hall%20victoria%20house%22&retrievecountrycounts=false seems to imply that Victoria Hall was in Victoria House. Nigej (talk) 21:49, 28 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The 1967 World Amateur Billiards Championship seems to have taken place at the same venue in October. https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/search/results/1969-10-01/1969-10-31?basicsearch=%22victoria%20hall%22%20billiards&phrasesearch=victoria%20hall&somesearch=billiards&exactsearch=false&retrievecountrycounts=false has a couple of articles saying "Victoria Hall, Holborn". Bloomsbury was part of Holborn at various times. Nigej (talk) 08:38, 29 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Many thanks for digging into this Nige. From the evidence that you've uncovered, I think the conclusion must be that Victoria Hall was inside Victoria House on Southampton Row, and therefore the correct link would be to Victoria House, London. It certainly doesn't look as if Victoria Hall (Ealing) is the right one. Do you think it's worth asking on the Victoria House talk page? Someone with an interest in the building might be able to confirm or deny that the 1969 world snooker championship final was held there (and may even be able to point us towards a definitive in-house source). Rodney Baggins (talk) 09:31, 29 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. Seems very likely. Annoying that I can't find any confirmation of that. Earlier in the 1960s Burroughes Hall was a commonly used venue in central London but that closed in 1967, so I guess they had to find somewhere new. Nigej (talk) 09:46, 29 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

OK, I'll bring it up on the talk page. Victoria House, London used to be the head office of the Liverpool Victoria insurance company who incidentally sponsored the UK Championship from 1997–2000, but I'm sure that connection is pure coincidence! Rodney Baggins (talk) 10:14, 29 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This source suggests the 1969 snooker match was held at "Victoria Halls, London", while this source suggests that "Victoria Halls" was at Bloomsbury Square. It appears that in the 1950s and 1960s the Bloomsbury Square location was referred to a "Victoria Halls". So I think it is the Bloomsbury Square / Southampton Row one. Best wishes. Dormskirk (talk) 12:23, 29 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This contemporary source https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=YZVAAAAAIBAJ&sjid=GaUMAAAAIBAJ&pg=1514%2C4087702 also uses the plural (although it refers to amateur instead of professional). This https://www.emerald.com/insight/content/doi/10.1108/eb012152/full/html about The Library Association Conference in 1950 says "The sectional meetings will be held variously at the Beveridge Hall (London University), University College, the Wellcome Historical Medical Museum, the South Hall, Victoria Halls, Bloomsbury Square, and the North Hall in the same building." Nigej (talk) 15:43, 29 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

OK then, thanks for all that, extremely interesting stuff. So the evidence is pointing to Victoria Halls being within or part of or an alternative name for Victoria House, Bloomsbury Square, London WC1, and this being the correct location of the 1969 snooker match. The question is, would it be safe to pipe the link to Victoria House, London? As it would actually show up as Victoria Halls, London, this might raise questions or confuse the reader unless we add a small editorial note, or maybe we could go down the route of creating a Victoria Halls, London redirect to the Victoria House article? Rodney Baggins (talk) 18:24, 29 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Personally, I would refer to Victoria Halls in the article and pipe it to Victoria House, London i.e. your first option. Best wishes. Dormskirk (talk) 18:37, 29 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

 Done better late than never... Rodney Baggins (talk) 11:11, 23 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'm subscribed to Newspapers.com and I've added a few little details that I could find. Dead frames were played out so the final scores differ from the ones recorded here. Can't find the venue for the Davis/Reardon quarter-final. cuetracker.net/tournaments/world-championship/1969/916 has the frame scores, unreferenced as ever. Nigej (talk) 11:48, 29 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Found something in an Aussie newspaper. Seems it was in Stoke. Nigej (talk) 12:03, 29 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

There are some references in The Billiard Player and in the press to Spencer receiving £1,780 and Owen getting £1,370, but I couldn't track down why. (The winners prize is said in several sources to be £1,300.) It seems like there was some money at stake for the dead frames in the final. Any ideas? BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 12:12, 11 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This review is transcluded from Talk:1969 World Snooker Championship/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: MWright96 (talk · contribs) 09:08, 14 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Am going to review this article for the July 2021 GAN Backlog Drive MWright96 (talk) 09:08, 14 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

• "The 1969 World Snooker Championship (also known as the Player's No.6 World Snooker Championship for sponsorship reasons) was the first World Snooker Championship in a knock-out format since 1957," - should also mention it was a professional snooker tournament to be in line with all other articles
• "Spencer had earlier eliminated defending champion John Pulman from the competition." - in which round?
• "Eight players entered the championship, including four competition debutants." - try not to start a sentence with a number either written or not
• "The quarter-finals and semi-finals were staged at several venues from 18 November 1968 until 22 February 1969," - at several venues in England from

• Amended as per the points above. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 19:53, 14 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• "The 1969 championship is regarded as the start of the modern snooker era." - regarded by whom?

• Amended to "The 1969 championship is regarded as the first of the modern snooker era." The start of Pot Black around the same time is sometimes identified as the start of the modern era. Also added another newspaper and book to citations in the body. Let me know what you think. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 19:53, 14 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Looks fine MWright96 (talk) 20:35, 14 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• "after which there were no world championship matched" - spelling error
• "featuring in the first match.[11][12][10]" - refs in numerical order please
• "The 1969 championship is regarded as the start of the modern snooker era." - same issue as the second point in the lead section

• All addressed. (See comment under "Lead" about the third point. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 19:54, 14 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• "four who had played professionally in the 1950s" - four of whom had

• Amended. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 20:07, 14 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• "saw the end of Pulman's reign as champion, at the hands of Spencer" - text in bold can be reworded to something shorter

• Amended to "when he was defeated by Spencer." BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 19:58, 14 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• "and clinched the match by winning the first frame in the evening with a "magnificent 97 break"" - according to whom?

• Added mention of The Times. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 19:58, 14 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• "until Reardon won the 27th frame to lead 15–12, after which Davis won six successive frames" - repetition of "won"

• Amended. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 19:58, 14 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• "held from at the Co-op Hall, Bolton, from 10 to 15 February." - word in bold is not needed
• "after he won ten of the twelve frames on day 3." - three}
• "The fourth day saw Davis reduce the deficit twelve frames" - a word is missing from this sentence

• Amended per all three points. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 20:00, 14 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• "before Spencer won the next four frames to lead 11–7 by the interval, after which he added four of the subsequent six frames to increase his lead to 15–9." - repetition of "lead"
• "and finished the day at 27–21 six frames ahead again." - finished the day six frames ahead again at 27–21.
• "With this he became the first player to win the World Championship at his first attempt since Joe Davis won the inaugural championship in 1927." - repetition of "wi(o)n"

• Amendments made as per the three points. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 20:03, 14 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Reference 44 "On this Week: Irish hat-trick success" is missing the publication date
• All those references that are clippings from newspapers.com should be identified as such by the via= field

Am putting the review on hold to allow the nominator to address or query each of the points raised above MWright96 (talk) 16:36, 14 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Many thanks for the review, MWright96. I've replied to everything above. Let me know if any more work is required. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 20:06, 14 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@BennyOnTheLoose: Shall be promoting this article to GA status MWright96 (talk) 20:35, 14 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]