Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Professional wrestling/Style guide

Ever since In wrestling section was removed, the significance of the persona section suddenly elevated. Not all wrestlers rely on their gimmicks. For example, the character of The Undertaker and it's interpretations is worth mentioning where as AJ Styles is not, regardless of how notable they are. I consider this a burden to have this section, considering so many of the high quality articles like Shelton Benjamin, Fin Balor and Becky Lynch are missing section. Even articles like The Undertaker and Bobby Eaton does not have enough information regarding this. Sometimes it's hard to find reliable sources and it is enough to add in the Professional wrestling career section (eg, Becky Lynch "The Man"). Though I am not considering a complex change in policy, I would like more clarification regarding this section on the wrestling BLP style guide. Thanks! ImmortalWizard(chat) 12:38, 3 January 2019 (UTC)Reply

• So to me this section is all about context - "professional wrestling style", "professional wrestling persona", "professional wrestling persona and style", "professional wrestling style and reception", "professional wrestling persona and reception", or indeed "professional wrestling persona, style, and reception" are all legitimate options, or leave it out totally if it doesn't make sense. Also - you think "AJ Styles" isn't a persona? or that he has always portrayed the same persona? Heel AJ vs. Face AJ vs. variations of the same in TNA. If it's a "burden" then don't worry about it. Once you can answer please do tell me what clarifications you may still have ImmortalWizard. MPJ-DK (talk) 00:43, 24 January 2019 (UTC)Reply

The "In wrestling" section was removed last year in June but I think that the section was useful in terms of professional wrestling fans and readers who used to search Wikipedia. It was a very useful information for readers as we could get to know about the finishing moves and signature moves of professional wrestlers and we were able to know the real name of that move used. It was a very useful information regarding professional wrestlers but I have found very difficulty in getting that information. Kindly revive the "In wrestling" section.--Mark Linton (talk) 14:32, 23 January 2019 (UTC)Reply

• It was a community decision that this information should not be listed in list form like it is random trivia. Mark Linton you are however in luck as it is totally legitimate if you or anyone else wants to add a "persona and style" section where where this information can be added in prose form with reliable sources etc. Of course the prose needs to give context for the moves not just recite them. There are plenty of articles out there with this new and informative section to pattern them on. So you are in luck, this is an opportunity to provide a positive impact to Wikipedia that will apparently be appreciated by people around the world. PS. let me know if you want a list of articles to use as examples for adding this section. MPJ-DK (talk) 00:37, 24 January 2019 (UTC)Reply
• As someone interested in finding out a wrestler's finisher, I don't want to read a prose description of a stage persona compiled in a ham-fisted way from news stories. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.151.109.94 (talk) 15:07, 8 January 2022 (UTC)Reply

This rule has produced some ridicuous results on some pages, for example light comic releif match Steiner & Missy vs Arn and Paul E as "main event" of the 1991 Great American Bash instead of the Luger/Windham world title match and various borderline TV enhancement matches as "main events" of SNME, which was deliberately structured (a la Saturday Night Live) to have the big Hulk Hogan world title defence at the start so that viewers could doze off in front of the support bouts afterwards. Some of these pages have had the main event relabelled "final match" but I think something should be done about this with this here style guide which seems to be at the root of the problem.Romomusicfan (talk) 11:02, 27 January 2023 (UTC)Reply

Currently, the way we address an individual who has multiple reigns with a championship but different partners for those reigns, we list them in the reigns table as:

Raquel Rodriguez (2) and Liv Morgan

And in the "Reigns" column itself, we just put the number for the team only, so with the above example, it's just 1.

I've always found this to be odd. An issue with this is that we don't have any kind of key that actually says what that small number means. We just assume the reader is going to understand.

Something we've been doing over at List of current champions in WWE is that under that reigns column for a tag team, we put the reign number for the team and then in small text under that in parentheses, we have the individual numbers for each person if different.

I propose we start doing this for all tag team championship articles. JDC808 ♫ 01:40, 24 May 2023 (UTC)Reply

I think there are issues with both approaches:

• Attaching them next to the wrestler names in the Champions column makes it clear who the reign number belongs to, but it is not immediately clear what that number means to an uninformed reader. Separating them from the overall reign number is also a bit strange functionally and aesthetically.
• Attaching them to the Reign column makes it clear that there is a discrepancy with the overall reign number. However, this column is both disconnected from the wrestler names and is such a far distance away that it is not immediately clear which reign number refers to which wrestler. I just looked at one list and frequently had to double-check who was listed in which order to correlate the specific number.

Still, If I HAD to choose one approach, I suppose the second option would be better (moving individual reigns to the Reign column, in parenthesis). Prefall 03:07, 24 May 2023 (UTC)Reply

@Prefall what if we made a separate key for tag team championship articles in which the description for Reigns for the second option, it would cover what the parenthetical numbers mean and those numbers are in order based on the order of the individuals. Or just update the current key to reflect that. JDC808 ♫ 03:59, 24 May 2023 (UTC)Reply

Yeah, |team=yes already exists, so we could add something like:

Could maybe take it a step further and change mentions of "champion" to "team" in the key/table header for extra clarity. (E.g., "Reign number for the specific champion" -> "Reign number for the specific team" in the Reigns key) Prefall 13:02, 24 May 2023 (UTC)Reply

@Prefall that sounds good to me JDC808 ♫ 22:59, 24 May 2023 (UTC)Reply

Pinging @GhostOfDanGurney, Old School WWC Fan, HHH Pedrigree, Czello, Oknazevad, WrestlingLegendAS, Muur, Lee Vilenski, LM2000, Dilbaggg, and Fran Bosh: for any other thoughts on this subject. JDC808 ♫ 01:39, 8 June 2023 (UTC)Reply

Forgot to ping Vjmlhds JDC808 ♫ 01:41, 8 June 2023 (UTC)Reply

As long as we have something shows both the team reign and the individual reign, then I'm happy. But we do need something, because it needs to be pointed out - for example - that even though this is Ronda Rousey and Shayna Baszler's first reign as a team, it's Baszler's third reign individually. Can't just say it's Rousey and Baszler's first reign and leave it at that. Vjmlhds (talk) 04:04, 8 June 2023 (UTC)Reply

I did some tinkering on the List of current champions in WWE article. What y'all think? Would that work for everybody? Vjmlhds (talk) 04:09, 8 June 2023 (UTC)Reply

Looks good but would it work on a sortable table like List of WWE SmackDown Tag Team Champions? (Fran Bosh (talk) 21:47, 8 June 2023 (UTC))Reply

@Fran Bosh don't see why not if the team number takes precedence for sorting JDC808 ♫ 22:29, 8 June 2023 (UTC)Reply

If there aren't any objections, I'd say let's go ahead and implement this. --JDC808 ♫ 02:31, 23 June 2023 (UTC)Reply

Done. Prefall 14:08, 23 June 2023 (UTC)Reply

@Prefall wait, which did you implement? I thought individual reigns were going under the Reigns column as well (in parentheses), but it looks as if the key was updated to say what the number by the name means. JDC808 ♫ 22:50, 26 June 2023 (UTC)Reply

@JDC808: I'm confused. I implemented what I see is the only proposal in this section (the addition to the Key). Vjmlhds changed something on a specific article (which uses a completely different format to our championship history tables), but no verbiage or anything was relayed. Prefall 23:00, 26 June 2023 (UTC)Reply

@Prefall From two of my above posts:

Something we've been doing over at List of current champions in WWE is that under that reigns column for a tag team, we put the reign number for the team and then in small text under that in parentheses, we have the individual numbers for each person if different.

I propose we start doing this for all tag team championship article.

And then (which was in regards to the Reigns column):

what if we made a separate key for tag team championship articles in which the description for Reigns for the second option, it would cover what the parenthetical numbers mean and those numbers are in order based on the order of the individuals. Or just update the current key to reflect that.

You had noted issues with both approaches (the current and my proposal), but said you leaned more towards all the numbers being in the Reigns column. I thought your proposal to the Key was to make it clear what all the numbers in the Reigns column meant. JDC808 ♫ 23:11, 26 June 2023 (UTC)Reply

@JDC808: From reading it back, I see I misread your response to my initial comment, and I think you misread my counter-proposal in turn. My mock-up proposal was an alternate approach to keep the status quo and explain the numbers in parenthesis beside the wrestler's names (hence "Wrestler (NUM)").

Crossed wires aside, I'm still fine with your proposal. But we need a new explanation for the Reigns column in the Key. Prefall 23:26, 26 June 2023 (UTC)Reply

@Prefall that appears to be what happened. As for a new explanation. When team is set to yes, the description for the Reign column could say "Reign number for the specific team. Parenthetical numbers beneath indicate reign number of the individuals if different from team number." Or something along those lines. JDC808 ♫ 01:13, 28 June 2023 (UTC)Reply

@JDC808: How about "Reign number for the specific team—reign numbers for the individuals are in parenthesis, if different"? Tried to make it as concise as possible. Prefall 10:51, 28 June 2023 (UTC)Reply

@Prefall that sounds good. JDC808 ♫ 21:13, 28 June 2023 (UTC)Reply

@JDC808: Okay, done (hopefully correctly this time!). WP:PW/SG#Reigns still needs to be updated, as far as documentation goes. Prefall 23:51, 28 June 2023 (UTC)Reply

@Prefall great and updated. JDC808 ♫ 07:32, 29 June 2023 (UTC)Reply