Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Michael James Birchell
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. Broad consensus against keeping the article, and no support for the suggested merge. Owen× ☎ 12:50, 15 August 2024 (UTC)
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- Michael James Birchell (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:GNG and WP:NOTMEMORIAL non-notable soldier, one of 8 killed in the same battle in Operation Bribie. Sources are largely name listings or about the battle rather than him Mztourist (talk) 10:12, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions. Mztourist (talk) 10:14, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Australia-related deletion discussions. Mztourist (talk) 10:15, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
- Keep: Entry in the Australian Dictionary of Biography ([1]) is sufficient for WP:ANYBIO#3. Curbon7 (talk) 10:25, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
- The preceding wording of WP:ANYBIO#3 states "People are likely to be notable if they meet any of the following standards." Its a presumption not a rule. I read the entry and don't see anything notable there. I wonder if it lists all 500+ Australians killed in Vietnam. Mztourist (talk) 10:39, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
- Well yes it is a presumption, but the ADB entry provides quite a bit of WP:SIGCOV (note that WP:THREE is a suggestion, and one very high quality source is sufficient). I'd say that is presumption met. Curbon7 (talk) 11:27, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
- I disagree and I'd note the comment below, there is no good reason why he is even in the ADB. Mztourist (talk) 14:23, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
- I strongly disagree with the notion of assessing notability by what participants feel is or is not notable, rather than by the strength of sourcing. There is an debate to be had about whether or not the ADB entry is alone sufficient, but I think the argument
I just don't think it's notable
is a very poor one. Curbon7 (talk) 20:23, 8 August 2024 (UTC)- We are questioning why he is even listed in the ADB and so questioning its quality as a source. Mztourist (talk) 03:52, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
- Certainly something worth bringing up at WT:Notability (people)/WP:RSN, if there is a pattern. Curbon7 (talk) 04:40, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
- We are questioning why he is even listed in the ADB and so questioning its quality as a source. Mztourist (talk) 03:52, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
- I strongly disagree with the notion of assessing notability by what participants feel is or is not notable, rather than by the strength of sourcing. There is an debate to be had about whether or not the ADB entry is alone sufficient, but I think the argument
- I disagree and I'd note the comment below, there is no good reason why he is even in the ADB. Mztourist (talk) 14:23, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
- Well yes it is a presumption, but the ADB entry provides quite a bit of WP:SIGCOV (note that WP:THREE is a suggestion, and one very high quality source is sufficient). I'd say that is presumption met. Curbon7 (talk) 11:27, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
- The preceding wording of WP:ANYBIO#3 states "People are likely to be notable if they meet any of the following standards." Its a presumption not a rule. I read the entry and don't see anything notable there. I wonder if it lists all 500+ Australians killed in Vietnam. Mztourist (talk) 10:39, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
- Comment. Normally I'd support the inclusion of anyone with an entry in a national dictionary of biography, but I'm really struggling to see why he was included. Just a soldier who was killed in action. What distinguishes him from the millions of others? Or even the many thousands of other Australian casualties of war? Is he intended to be representative of the ordinary men who were killed in Vietnam? -- Necrothesp (talk) 10:46, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. Hey man im josh (talk) 13:17, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
- Delete: I don't see the notability either, appears to be just another soldier doing his job. Not sure why he's listed in the national biography, can you pay to get featured in it? Oaktree b (talk) 16:32, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
- Merge into Operation Bribie Graywalls (talk) 05:18, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
- Delete: ADB gives us the following information:
While the volumes cover the orthodox fields of politics, business, religion, the land, the professions and the arts, they also attempt to reflect the rich variety of Australian life by including representatives of every social group and sphere of endeavour. Entries on these representative people are usually 500 to 750 words in length. The ADB prides itself on its blend of elitism and egalitarianism.
([2]). It's a perfectly reliable source, fact-checked, and written by professionals, but it's not a reliable indicator for what we mean by "notability" on wikipedia. -- asilvering (talk) 11:24, 15 August 2024 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.