User talk:Richard Nevell/Archive 2

Thanks, @TomStar81: that's very kind. Richard Nevell (talk) 21:38, 11 January 2019 (UTC)

Hello and thanks for pleading my cause at the polit buro. Unfortunately there was no chance that it would yied any result, someone was ready to crucify me and send me to the gallows.

Fram lost all credibility in my eyes when he deleted Opéra Royal de Wallonie under the pretence that for once I forgot the {{Translated page|fr||version=|small=no|Translation by [[User:LouisAlain]].}} template. Oh the sinner! Oh the criminal! Of the vandal!

Thanks again for your support and the time you spent gathering the numerous episode of this deplorable incident. LouisAlain (talk) 08:03, 29 January 2019 (UTC)

ANI is historically poor when it comes to recognising and dealing with behavioural issues which aren't black and white, so the outcome was expected to be honest. It was worth raising all the same as people using their authority to harangue others should be challenged, even unsuccessfully. Anyway, onward to more enjoyable things. Happy editing, Richard Nevell (talk) 08:38, 29 January 2019 (UTC)

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 10:53, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

Hi! Any idea what/where the castle shown here is? In Britain, view as around 1750-70. Could it be Alnwick Castle, based on this and, from another side, this with the tower? Cheers, Johnbod (talk) 14:49, 24 February 2019 (UTC)

@Johnbod: You're spot on with the identification as Alnwick. The packed core surrounded by a curtain wall, with the ground rising towards it from the viewer is quite distinctive, and the densely arranged windows on the curtain wall especially so. The layout of the main features is pretty much spot on if you were able to manipulate the 1866 isometric view like a 3D model (view from the bottom-right corner). Richard Nevell (talk) 15:05, 24 February 2019 (UTC)

Many thanks! Johnbod (talk) 15:06, 24 February 2019 (UTC)

  Hey there! I'm Psantora. There is a move discussion at Wikipedia talk:Adding open license text to Wikipedia#Requested move 25 February 2019 requiring more participation, please consider commenting/voting in it along with the other discussions in the backlog (Wikipedia:Requested moves#Elapsed listings). - Paul^T+/_C 16:20, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 10:02, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 11:45, 28 March 2019 (UTC)

Looking at your prior contributions to enwiki, it does not seem you patrol new pages or speedy deletions. In regards to this edit, some 4 days from your prior edit, 24 minutes from article creation, and 15 minutes from G4 speedy being placed - How did you come about to noticing this particular article and speedy request? Icewhiz (talk) 07:12, 4 April 2019 (UTC)

Jess' talk page is on my watchlist. Richard Nevell (talk) 07:26, 4 April 2019 (UTC)

It is? Odd, you've never made an edit there. How did you come around to edit Rebecca Lunn with this diff? This wasn't on Jesswade88's TP. Icewhiz (talk) 08:09, 4 April 2019 (UTC)

Is it odd? There's no requirement to have edited a page before watching it. Richard Nevell (talk) 08:18, 4 April 2019 (UTC)

This page is now on my watchlist. Odd behaviours tend to draw watchers. Icewhiz, please stop this thought police nonsense. Thanks --Fæ (talk) 11:16, 4 April 2019 (UTC)

FYI diff1 diff2 --Fæ (talk) 12:34, 4 April 2019 (UTC)

If in the future Icewhiz could stick to commenting on content without insinuating malfeasance in those they disagree with, that would be grand. Jumping at so many shadows must be tiring and worsens Wikipedia's atmosphere. Richard Nevell (talk) 19:04, 4 April 2019 (UTC)

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 11:27, 30 April 2019 (UTC)

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 18:52, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

Hi Richard, just to let you know I've gone over the slighting article and given it a polish. Sorry about the delay in getting to it, I've been working through a bit of a backlog on WP. If there's ever any other copy editing or other input you need from me, just drop me a line  

Cadar (talk) 13:36, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

Thank you Cadar, that's wonderful! Richard Nevell (talk) 20:08, 15 July 2019 (UTC)

I reverted your edit[1] on History of agriculture in Scotland. There are 3 main reasons for this.

Firstly the historians who work in this field do not apply the term "forced displacement" to the Highland clearances. You can find people who are not academic historians doing so if you look hard enough, but in an article that has "history" in its title, I don't think you need me to spell out any arguments on the sort of references to expect.

Secondly, I don't know how familiar you are with the reference you cited. It is a paper written by human rights lawyers. Looking at where they presented it, it appears to be a marketing piece - trying to raise their profile and therefore gain more work. (Nothing wrong with that - we all have to make a living.) It does not seem to have any claim to have serious academic credentials.

Thirdly, if you look at the mention of the Highland clearances in their paper, it is a very minor part of the paper - to the extent that it is reasonable to conclude that it is a reference in passing (as per WP:CONTEXTMATTERS: "Information provided in passing by an otherwise reliable source that is not related to the principal topics of the publication may not be reliable").

Sorry to come back so forcefully on this, but much of the editing around the Highland clearances has been done in the context of trying to get the accepted views of the historians working in the field into Wikipedia - rather than some of the stuff written by others. ThoughtIdRetired (talk) 18:34, 8 August 2019 (UTC)

Hello ThoughtIdRetired, nice to have you here! To your above points, I will say that lawyers may indeed have something to contribute (not least because the publisher is an academic publisher) and interdisciplinarity tends to build a stronger article. I have, however, added another source using the term to allay your concerns. Richard Nevell (talk) 18:40, 8 August 2019 (UTC)

Unfortunately the extra reference is written by a junior academic who specialises in English literature rather than Scottish history. Reading the mention of the Highland clearances, I think it also meets the criteria for a reference in passing. I am a little puzzled as to exactly what you are trying to achieve - the facts of the Highland clearances speak for themselves - there is no need to use the language you want to insert. Much better to try and understand the out-of-phase abandonment of dùthchas - this is one of the 2 main reasons for discontent over the clearances - and it is something that particularly hit those less able to look after themselves.ThoughtIdRetired (talk) 18:55, 8 August 2019 (UTC)

I have copied this to the article talk page.ThoughtIdRetired (talk) 19:01, 8 August 2019 (UTC)

Welcome to an editathon. --Richard Nevell (talk) 13:51, 9 October 2019 (UTC)

hello there --William Reynolds (talk) 13:48, 17 October 2019 (UTC)

Hi

--GDK98 (talk) 13:48, 17 October 2019 (UTC)

Hi

--Hail.Stone97 (talk) 13:48, 17 October 2019 (UTC)

Hello! Test message Kye tf (talk) 13:48, 17 October 2019 (UTC)

Hello. --Richard Nevell (talk) 13:48, 17 October 2019 (UTC)

Hi

hello

hi — Preceding unsigned comment added by Joshyoijyt (talk • contribs) 13:46, 17 October 2019 (UTC)

Hello!

-Ecr20 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 13:48, 17 October 2019 (UTC)

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Btw, when I replied to your list email re the recent event, the sending failed - something about the address used at WMUK. Johnbod (talk) 21:16, 23 November 2019 (UTC)

That's an unhelpful thing for an email address to do. I've just checked and I've had other messages (though not yours of course). Did the error give any insight? Richard Nevell (talk) 11:59, 24 November 2019 (UTC)

@Johnbod: Were you able to email me in the end? Richard Nevell (talk) 12:26, 27 November 2019 (UTC)

I don't think so - did you get one? Hope the event went well, best Johnbod (talk) 12:45, 27 November 2019 (UTC)

@Johnbod: Not a sausage. I've sent you another email with my personal address copied in so we might be able to get to the bottom of the problem. Richard Nevell (talk) 12:58, 27 November 2019 (UTC)

Hi. I noticed the graph, which immediately leads me to wonder what exactly happened in 2007? Surely, given the huge outlier, it's got to be worth a note explaining it? Perhaps in the caption, perhaps as a footnote. If I knew why I'd do it myself... Blue Square Thing (talk) 17:06, 24 January 2020 (UTC)

@Blue Square Thing: That's a very good question, I've seen sore thumbs which stick out less. I added the table as part of a vague plan to add a bit more about the castle's recent history. It's the kind of dip which really should be explained. I've not come across an explanation yet, but I suspect that it must have been closed for conservation works or something for at least part of the year. English Heritage try to keep such closures to a minimum but sometimes its unavoidable. My feeling is there must be something out there which was covered by the local newspapers, but it's a matter of finding it. Without some text to properly integrate the graph with the article, it's probably overkill and could be summarised by a sentence about average visitor numbers but I wanted to experiment a bit. Richard Nevell (talk) 17:19, 24 January 2020 (UTC)

Yes, I was assuming that it must have been closed for much of the year or something, but I don't remember noticing anything. If I'm down that way I might pop in and ask! Blue Square Thing (talk) 19:14, 24 January 2020 (UTC)

I am so glad I noticed that! An error like that just slides down the page and can stay for years unnoticed if you don't pick it up immediately. Amandajm (talk) 00:20, 18 February 2020 (UTC)

Happy to help, just glad you spotted it before too long. Richard Nevell (talk) 19:28, 18 February 2020 (UTC)

If you're willing, it'd be good to have a sentence of two on the postulated effects or otherwise of the disease in the mediaeval Netherlands and the historiography of that. Roosen and Curtis's article is probably worth citing, if it represents the current mainstream and is not too contested an idea. GPinkerton (talk) 01:53, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

That's the intention given time. The historiography needs to go somewhere, and has me wondering when a separate article is needed for all the different trends in the study of the Black Death. Richard Nevell (talk) 09:40, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

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Hi!

Thanks for marking references as open access! As the documentation of {{open access}} explains, it is preferable to use the access parameters of the citation templates when the citation is formatted using templates. In this case, it means adding |doi-access=free instead of {{open access}}. This has the benefit of indicating precisely which link the reader should click to get free access to the full text.

Cheers − Pintoch (talk) 05:49, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

Hi Pintoch, thanks for letting me know I'll make sure to use |doi-access=free. Richard Nevell (talk) 08:00, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

Hello Richard,
Thank you for the thanks. Always pleasing to receive one.
I have made a few more edits there and hope they meet with your approval.
All the best! Gareth Griffith-Jones (contribs) (talk) 18:32, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

@Gareth Griffith-Jones: All distinct improvements, paying careful attention to presenting information in the right order! Thanks for taking the time to improve the article, it's always nice to see someone engaging with pages like this. Richard Nevell (talk)

So far as I can see that was original research plus falsification of sources and I've threatened a block. Did I miss something in the sources? Thanks. Doug Weller talk 09:10, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

You took the right course of action there. Loseby doesn't comment on 21st-century media (not surprising since they were writing in 2000) and mentions immigration once in passing. Similarly, the Google Books preview for Laurence 2012 doesn't give any relevant results for the recently added content. The removal of properly sourced text about Roman citizens from other parts of the empire settling in Britain stretches the limits of good faith. Thank you for dealing with it quickly. Richard Nevell (talk) 09:23, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

And thanks for confirming that I'm right. I've blocked - it probably was about time anyway. Doug Weller talk 09:43, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

Taking up your invitation, let me ask you to elaborate on this supposed rampant sexism and racism in the Wikipedia community. Where did it manifest itself recently? I will gladly do my part to fight it, as I believe I have done for the past 15 years. --bender235 (talk) 20:47, 9 June 2020 (UTC)

A lot has been written on the subject, eg. Can I also suggest that berating a woman for expressing an opinion you disagree with and accusing her of slander is somewhat hostile. Richard Nevell (talk) 21:01, 9 June 2020 (UTC)

Berating? I was merely asking the question whether her anger over the perceived racism and sexism addressed the right entity (the individuals who started the incident vs. the community that dealt with it in its usual professionalism). --bender235 (talk) 21:56, 9 June 2020 (UTC)

I don't think "was it really necessary to slander Wikipedia" was a genuine question. Richard Nevell (talk) 22:00, 9 June 2020 (UTC)

It was, and thanks for assuming good faith. Since I happen to be part of the Wikipedia community that was described as racist and sexist in its entirety, I took offense. But also, why is it relevant whether Jesswade88 is a woman? Am I supposed to treat her differently than a male editor, or any editor whose gender has not been revealed to me? Do you assume that I am male? --bender235 (talk) 22:04, 9 June 2020 (UTC)

Questions are much more likely to get an answer if they aren't loaded and paired with an accusation of slander as your initial comment was. Richard Nevell (talk) 20:32, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

Hi!

Thank you for improving references and marking them as open access when appropriate, as in this edit! Did you know the citation templates support access parameters to indicate which source a work is free to read from? For instance, in that edit, you can use |hdl-access=free to position the open access lock on the relevant identifier. That helps users who are not too familiar with bibliographic identifier schemes.

Keep up the good work! − Pintoch (talk) 06:55, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

Thanks Pintoch - I've seen it indicated with the DOI parameter, but hadn't realised you could do the same with handles. I thought it would be best to brush up on the template documentation. Looks like DOI and hdl will be the ones I'll mostly use in the future, though it's handy to know that s2cid is also an option. Richard Nevell (talk) 21:06, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:48, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

I wasn't aware that it's also the day that you were welcomed, 5 years ago ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:50, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

Thank you! :D Richard Nevell (talk) 21:00, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

GS: I dunno if you have seen this, or if it is any use. I also hesitantly suggest this, only because the author wrote a thoroughly sound account of the Battle of Dunbar. Gog the Mild (talk) 19:25, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

Hi Richard, Gog the Mild suggested that I contact you as a first port of call in my hunt for good sources to let me develop our content on tower houses. Specifically, I'd like to be able to write some general background about the development of tower houses in Scotland and in northern England, which would allow me to expand some articles I've written about specific buildings (Coxton Tower, Rusco Tower and Johnby Hall), perhaps add to Tower House, and/or create a separate article about them, depending on what sources I'm able to find. Gog tells me that you're very knowledgeable about buildings like this, so I wondered if you could point me at any sources you know about that would give a good over overview of this stuff. Thanks in advance for anything you're able to suggest. Cheers GirthSummit _(blether) 15:48, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

Hi Richard, I hope that you are well, and dealing with Covid and Williamson with equal aplomb. Gog the Mild (talk) 15:52, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

Good to hear from you Gog the Mild; the overall weirdness that is 2020 has me largely confused but coping well enough. Hope you're doing well.

@Girth Summit: The first thing that springs to mind is this paper. I know a couple of people who specialise in the subject (I know a bit, but there's certainly more I don't know!) see what they come up with. Richard Nevell (talk) 19:13, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

GS: I dunno if you have seen this, or if it is any use. I also hesitantly suggest this, only because the author wrote a thoroughly sound account of the Battle of Dunbar. Gog the Mild (talk) 19:25, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

Richard, I think that is the new normal. Good thanks, if bored to tears. Gog the Mild (talk) 19:27, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

Thanks both of you for those suggestions - I think that definitely gives me a good starting point. Richard, if your experts can suggest anything else, I'd be very grateful. GirthSummit _(blether) 10:15, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

I've found this, by the same author as the Castle Studies Group paper. A bit steep, but I've looked at a review and it seems to have been well-received - might be a good investment. GirthSummit _(blether) 15:49, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

if you haven't ordered yet, it might be worth checking if Wikimedia UK would cover the cost of the book. Richard Nevell (talk) 15:58, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Richard Nevell, wow - nice suggestion! No, I haven't ordered it yet - I came across a 2015 advert that says the author sells it direct for £55, which is cheaper than the second-hand ones on Amazon, so I've written to him to see if he's still doing that. I'll look into that Wikimedia link though, that would be very handy, thanks. GirthSummit _(blether) 16:03, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

PS Richard, while you probably don't remember our conversation on this in Coventry, I am working up Third Punic War, with FAC possibly in mind, and was interested to discover that the first mention of the "salting the earth" myth was in an 1858-1863 American encyclopedia. Contrary to Ridley's 1986 conclusion of it first being mentioned in 1930; of course, he didn't have a Google book search facility. Gog the Mild (talk) 19:03, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

@Gog the Mild: That is a considerable amount earlier, good find! Coventry feels like a very long time ago, but I distantly remember. And bringing slighting up to GA is still on my to-do list.

@Girth Summit: The Fortress series of book are usually good quality. As a quick update, the folks I've been in touch with are busy but will send me some suggestions that I'll pass over. Richard Nevell (talk) 22:45, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

@Girth Summit: Sorry it's taken so long to get back on this. I've got some suggestions, via one of my contacts. A couple of them include things mentioned above, and I've include a couple of notes below. Richard Oram's works came especially recommended, and as they're recent they should help balance out some of the older sources.

• Oram, Richard (2015), "The incomplete exemplar: Doune Castle and the great tower in Later medieval Scottish castles", in Oram, Richard (ed.), A House that Thieves Might Knock at: Proceedings of the 2010 Stirling and 2011 Dundee Conferences. Tower Series, 1 & 2., Donington: Shaun Tyas, pp. 129–151
• Oram, Richard (2015), "Living on the Level: Horizontally Planned Lodgings in Fifteenth- and early Sixteenth-Century Scotland", Architectural Heritage, 26 (1): 37–53, doi:10.3366/arch.2015.006
• Reid, Stuart (2012), Castles and Tower Houses of the Scottish Clans 1450–1650 — Mentioned above. The person I contacted wasn't certain about the quality since it's a long time since she read it.
• Dixon, Philip (1979), "Towerhouses, Pelehouses and Border Society", Archaeological Journal, 136: 240–252, doi:10.1080/00665983.1979.11020505 — Mentioned above, and possibly a bit dated
• Tabraham, Christopher (1989), "The Scottish medieval towerhouse as lordly residence in the light of recent excavation", Proceedings of the Society of Antiquaries of Scotland, 118: 267–276 — Possibly a bit dated
• Jope, Edward Martyn (1951), "Scottish Influences in the North of Ireland: Castles with Scottish Features, 1580-1640", Ulster Journal of Archaeology, 14: 31–47, JSTOR 20566632

Also possibly of interest:

• Maxwell-Irving, A M T, The Border Towers of Scotland: their History and Architecture — Mentioned above
• Oram, Richard; Stell, Geoffrey, eds. (1991), Galloway: Land and Lordship, Edinburgh: Scottish Society for Northern Studies
• Stringer, KJ; Winchester, AJL (eds.), Northern England and Southern Scotland in the Central Middle Ages, Woodbridge: Boydell and Brewer

I might be able to help get hold of the three papers with DOIs, the rest could be a bit trickier. Richard Nevell (talk) 19:24, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

Hi Richard Nevell, that is extremely generous of you to dig those out - much appreciated. I entered into a bit of correspondence with Alastair Maxwell-Irving over the summer - a very friendly and helpful chap - and ended up buying his book. With your list above, I'm sure I'll have plenty to get cracking with - now I just need some time! Richard Oram's name rings a bell - not sure why, but it's familiar, I must have come across him before. My partner is an historian - of politics, rather than architecture - so she should be able to help me get hold of these one way or another when I've got a bit of writing time. Much appreciated. GirthSummit _(blether) 19:42, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

@Rahulsoman: Thank you very much! I'm glad I could help, and well done on the article. Richard Nevell (talk) 09:47, 10 September 2020 (UTC)

@User:Richard_Nevell 👍👍 Rahul Soman^{talk - contribs} 10:54, 10 September 2020 (UTC)

I don't understand UK academic titles, but could you take a quick look and see whether this one meets WP:ACADEMIC: Andrew Morris, head of the Scottish COVID committee, who is also a member of SAGE.

In unrelated-to-that but maybe-interesting-to-you news, did you know that Dunluce Castle may have inspired Cair Paravel? Thanks for your sanity and civility--inspirational! HouseOfChange (talk) 00:46, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

@HouseOfChange: I think WP:ACADEMIC was written with US academia in mind, so not everything quite matches up with the UK. Morris' full professorship should be enough to indicate notability as it's a senior position. But I wouldn't take it for granted, so vice-principals tend to also be senior positions. The combination of the two should increase the notability. He was also given an award (the CBE) for his work which I think should count as evidence of having made a significant contribution to his field. So I think there's a good case for notability independent of the Scottish COVID committee, but heading that must put him over the top.

I had no idea Dunluce may have inspired Cair Paravel! Looking at the pictures it has an air of how I (dimly) remember Lewis describing Cair Paravel. Richard Nevell (talk) 22:08, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

Thanks. I don't have time right now to draft that article but maybe in a few days I will. Also, this old image of Dunluce Castle is very "Cair Paravel" IMO. HouseOfChange (talk) 23:25, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

Howdy @Richard Nevell:. Question for you - a former curatorial bod at the Yorkshire Museum was Barbara Pyrah. There is a video hidden behind the scenes of an interview she did at an exhibition opening in 1986 for YTV. I recall the discussion from the colloquium on the fair use of images but have never successfully been able to apply it to a biography. As this might be the only image I'm ever likely to get of the lady, is it legit or no to screen grab and upload the file? Copyright is a mire. Any wisdom greatly appreciated. Zakhx150 (talk) 12:22, 3 November 2020 (UTC)

Sorry, Zakhx150, I completely missed your message! As it isn't likely to be replaceable with a free version (ie: no one can go and take a photo of Pyrah), it would be a small portion of the original work (just a frame), and low resolution it fits with Wikipedia's rules around fair use. If you have a go at uploading a screenshot to Wikipedia rather than Commons and filling in the details, I can check it over afterwards. Richard Nevell (talk) 09:57, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

To be fair, I get a notification when someone leaves a message on my talk page regardless of the ping template, I was just rubbish at noticing! Richard Nevell (talk) 09:59, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

I won't expect and do not deserve an answer but does that mean your Ping skills Pong?SovalValtos (talk) 11:04, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

I'm filing this under 'things that made me laugh unreasonably hard', clearly I need more caffeine. Richard Nevell (talk) 11:50, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for this. Image is here. Zakhx150 (talk) 12:39, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

@Zakhx150: Looks good, With a clear rationale. The one thing that could have been changed was taken care of by a bot. The original screenshot was a but bigger than needed so DatBot came along and shrank it. For readers who will see the thumbnail of the image in the article nothing will change, while behind the scenes it means the image is a bit lower resolution. Richard Nevell (talk) 17:26, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

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