User talk:Poeticbent/Archive 15

Happy New Year by the "old style"! I did not really expect any serious response from you on my talk page. That was simply an excuse for me to think about something and make a note. BTW, I was once in Poland on a scientific meeting, and a colleague invited me to show a family album that documented how her grandfather and grandmother were taken to Siberia after Soviet occupation of Poland in 1939... After emigrating from Russia I read and thought a lot about what the state did to its own people, and most shamefully, to peoples of other countries (and continue doing the same). I think most people who still remain in Russia suffer from the Stockholm syndrome, although they do not realize it. And they think somewhere at the bottom of their subconsciousness: "If that was the truth, then we can not live in this country. But we can't leave the country (for whatever reason). That's why we can not admit the truth" (that is exactly what Sergei Kovalev said about certain "active measures"). Recently I listen "100 lectures" about Soviet literature by Dmitry Bykov, a man of enormous erudition and an independent thinker. But he had certain blind spots, and one of them was his evaluation of work by Varlam Shalamov, whose writings are the key to understand why exactly this country has absolutely no future, unless it undergoes the process of deKGBzation, something similar to denazification in Germany. It did not. There is no hope for the country. It undergoes an opposite transformation. Obviously, this is something realized by many people. So, just to quote someone recent, that would be Yuri Heifetz ([1]):

My very best wishes (talk) 15:25, 11 January 2018 (UTC)

Please take a closer look. The old picture is also mine. It was taken more that 10 years ago, when the church was obscured by trees. It also is very poor technically (perspective!). Compare yestarday picture with the one you just restored. Moreover I do a lot of such editions, replacing poor quality pictures taken long ago, usually by me. It is the first time ever I was treated like a vandal because of that. Please restore my edition with new picture --Jakubhal (talk) 05:14, 15 January 2018 (UTC)

• This is selfpromotion, not vandalism, User:Jakubhal. You're not only pushy but also manipulative. It was me (!) who selected your photograph from Commons to illustrate the St. Florian's Church, when I WROTE IT in February 2007. So give me credit, will you? Why did you come here, if 12 minutes later you reverted me at the Royal Road, Kraków? I ALSO WROTE THAT ARTICLE, in July 2008‎. You're forcing on us your own bloody ONE photo (just one, EVERYWHERE). — This is not the same as having your photo selected by an article creator. You went ahead and again added your own new photo. You don't even look at the result. Your photo is of a different size and colour, and it messed up the design of the Royal Road, Kraków display table. Please let others decide what is needed, don't be pushy. I like the trees in the original photo (!), so WP:Don't stuff beans up your nose. Poeticbent talk 06:41, 15 January 2018 (UTC)

• I checked the list of usage of my old photo, which in my opinion is obsolete and technically weak and replace it with the one taken yesterday. I specifically went to the place to take the new picture. I did not replace somebody else illustration anywhere. It is easy to accuse for "self-promotion", but it was me who takes the effort to go to various, sometimes remote places and take pictures for wikipedia. Please at least respect that contribution. As you published your article on free license, you are not an owner of the article. --Jakubhal (talk) 08:55, 15 January 2018 (UTC)

The article Royal Road, Kraków was on the front page of English Wikipedia on 19 July 2008 thanks to my efforts. It was the leading DYK on that day. Your photograph, which I chose to include, was in it. My selection of your work featured in Commons was a form of acknowledgement ... thank you. Poeticbent talk 15:51, 15 January 2018 (UTC)

Your photograph, User:Jakubhal, was on the front page of English Wikipedia thanks to my efforts. Do you care for it? I think you might ... and if I were you, I would probably put it back because of that. Thanks, Poeticbent talk 19:14, 15 January 2018 (UTC)

• Main Page of English Wikipedia is visited 16.7 million times per day on average.   Poeticbent talk 20:38, 15 January 2018 (UTC)

  Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion involving you at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring regarding a possible violation of Wikipedia's policy on edit warring. The thread is Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring#User:Poeticbent reported by 83.29.46.96. Thank you. NeilN ^{talk to me} 03:55, 23 January 2018 (UTC)

Adding information in Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Sosnowiec_article_fiction --83.10.5.144 (talk) 22:09, 23 January 2018 (UTC)

Talk:"Polish death camp" controversy#Vote.--APS^talk 19:12, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

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I think Bandera was a despicable person.... But you know them right that this edit is almost text book Wikipedia:Content forking wich has no place in Wikipedia. — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 00:11, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

By the way I created this infobox a few years ago that has been on my Wikipedia userpage ever since:

Just because I display also a Ukrainian flag on my userpage does not make me a defender of Bandera — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 00:19, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

That "none of this information - strictly about Banderites history - is in the Bandera article" shouldn't be fixed by creating a Wikipedia:CFORK. That doesn't make any common sense.... — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 18:03, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

I made an RfC at Talk:Banderites. — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 18:43, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

I also created a topic about our dispute at the Dispute resolution noticeboard. — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 18:58, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

Is it possible you could maybe clean the entire article up further? I tried my best, but honestly I've been dealing with it for over 10 years and I'm frankly exhausted from my numerous attempts at trying, (usually being reverted by the article's creator LUCPOL (talk · contribs), who is now indefintely banned from Wikipedia.) Dealing with the article has left a general bad taste for me and I only really respond to obvious technical changes with it, but also because most of the sourcing was in Polish, and I don't speak the language, so I didn't know how to amend anything.

The user created the article by carbon-copying the Katowice article and not changing much other than the pictures and name. Any attempt on my behalf to remove that and make it appear less copied was reverted by him, up until my return last year. I took a lot of the copied stuff away, but I still think there could be better sourcing and better grammar used. User:LUCPOL wasn't fluent in English and often left things looking shoddy in that area, as well. Not many are aware of these problems due to how little coverage it has gotten. R9tgokunks ✡ 06:30, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

• @R9tgokunks:   Done   — Poeticbent talk 18:21, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

Thanks! R9tgokunks ✡ 01:55, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

Hello. I write to you because you corrected the article.

There are two terms:

• pl:Górnośląski Związek Metropolitalny (translate to en: Upper Silesian Metropolitan Association or Silesian Metropolis, according to the source) - inter-communal association, existed from 2007 to 2017.
• pl:Górnośląsko-Zagłębiowska Metropolia (translate to en: Upper Silesian-Zagłębie Metropolis) - metropolitan association, from 2017.

User:R9tgokunks moved article to total incorrect name of Metropolitan Association of Upper Silesia and Dąbrowa Basin (= Polish hoax name: Związek Metropolitalny Górnego Śląska i Zagłębia Dąbrowskiego)? This is a completely wrong name and hoax.

If R9tgokunks prefer one article about two: (old) inter-communal association, existed from 2007 to 2017 and new (current) metropolitan association, from 2017 - ok, please use official name Upper Silesian-Zagłębie Metropolis (Polish official name: Górnośląsko-Zagłębiowska Metropolia).

I wrote about this on User talk:R9tgokunks but R9tgokunks asks some questions like "Are you LUCPOL"? [2]. Today, he removed the whole topic of the discussion. Two facts: moved article to total incorrect name, weird questions, removing discussion about this - as conscious action, this is vandalism.

Please restore the previous name of article and adapt to the previous inter-communal association, existed from 2007 to 2017 or please use new name Upper Silesian-Zagłębie Metropolis (Górnośląsko-Zagłębiowska Metropolia) and adapt to the current metropolitan association, from 2017... with the mention that the previous existed 2007-2017 and was dissolved. 89.66.2.237 (talk) 17:06, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

I just noticed on your user page, that you are Pole :) I'm too :) So, probably will not be a problem with translate name from Polish to English. Metropolitan Association of Upper Silesia and Dąbrowa Basin (= Związek Metropolitalny Górnego Śląska i Zagłębia Dąbrowskiego) does not exist, there is Górnośląsko-Zagłębiowska Metropolia (translate to en: Upper Silesian-Zagłębie Metropolis). I also recommend analyzing the sources about GZM (in Polish). Regards, 89.66.2.237 (talk) 18:42, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

• Please do not mix English in Polish words in one phrase: Upper Silesian-Zagłębie Metropolis is neither here nor there. The correct English phrase is the Upper Silesian - Dąbrowa Basin Metropolis, because Zagłębie is a Polish word which translates as Basin in English. Poeticbent talk 18:54, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

Hi, can you explain this editsum? ―Mandruss ☎ 04:55, 19 February 2018 (UTC)

• Hi, Mandruss. That's a direct quote from Template:Div col documentation: {{Div col}} can be used to make a list into columns that wrap properly and compatibly with portable computer devices, esp. PAD operating systems and small screens. I hope it's OK, Poeticbent talk 05:02, 19 February 2018 (UTC)

Yeah that's a great improvement, and thanks for teaching me that. I've already implemented that change at a different article. I should have said that I'm wondering what numbered list has to do with portable devices. We already say in several places that there were 17, and I don't see what benefit there is to showing where each individual ranks alphabetically. ―Mandruss ☎ 05:12, 19 February 2018 (UTC)

Hmmm, I guess you left. I put the bullets back. Thanks again. ―Mandruss ☎ 05:26, 19 February 2018 (UTC)

@Mandruss: I guess, the numbered list was an overkill. That's fine. In section Victims there are several different numbers for different categories of victims (quote).

Fourteen students and three staff members were killed and many others injured, including at least 15 (including the suspect) who were taken to area hospitals.[9][19] Three people remained in critical condition the next day.[20] Of those killed, twelve died in the school, two just outside the school buildings, one on the street, and two at the hospital.[9] The dead (in alphabetical order) were identified as:[21]

I thought that using numbers would clarify, that the list includes the actual total. But I have no problem with the WP:BULLETS of course. Thanks, Poeticbent talk 05:35, 19 February 2018 (UTC)

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Sorry for troubling but I have a total memory blackout, what was the name of that Polish statesman who in 1930/40 was offered by Hitler to establish the collaborative government in GG? He declined and then was shot by the Germans a few months later? There were two of them actually, I need that info for C. with the Axis P. article. Thank you.GizzyCatBella (talk) 02:53, 24 February 2018 (UTC)

• At an early stage of the war, the Germans imprisoned former prime minister of Poland, Wincenty Witos, and offered him to lead the collaborationist government, but Witos declined; and so did Prince Janusz Radziwiłł (1880–1967). Witos was arrested by the Nazis on September 16, 1939, and imprisoned in Rzeszów. After rejecting the German proposal, he was incarcerated for two years; his health deteriorated considerably. During internment he was in contact with the Polish Underground State. Once released, he was hiding in Krakow. On March 23, 1945, after the arrival of the Red Army, he was arrested again, this time by the NKVD. The British prime minister, Winston Churchill, intervened with Stalin. Information about his arrest was denied by the Soviet agency TASS. Witos's health deteriorated further. On August 15, 1945, he was sent to the hospital, and in September issued his last appeal: "To the peasant brothers" with the call for unity. He died in the hospital on 31 October 1945. Source: Rafał Skąpski. Witos, Mikołajczyk i bracia Skąpscy: rok 1944. Journal „Niepodległość i Pamięć”. 22/1 (49).

Janusz Radziwiłł was arrested by NKVD after the Soviet invasion of Poland in 1939. Kept in the Lubyanka prison, he was personally interrogated by Lavrentiy Beria. Released due to international pressure he relocated to Nazi occupied Poland, where he met with Hermann Göring whom he knew from before the war. His pleas to stop the persecution of the Poles were futile. Sent away, he was briefly imprisoned during the Warsaw Uprising in 1944. After the war he was again arrested, this time by the NKVD; his wife died in a communist prison in 1947. Janusz Radziwiłł died in Warsaw on 4 October 1967. Sources: David G. Williamson, (2012). The Polish Underground 1939-1947. Pen and Sword. ISBN 9781848842816. Norman Davies (2008). No Simple Victory: World War II in Europe, 1939-1945. Penguin. ISBN 9781440651120. — I hope it helps. Poeticbent talk 04:43, 24 February 2018 (UTC)

Yes, I know Witos too, but there were two others, they actually were shot dead and after that Hitler abandoned the idea of finding collaborators..Gosh...I totally forgot those names..GizzyCatBella (talk) 06:41, 24 February 2018 (UTC)

I’ll find it.. but thanks and by the way, Witos story should be also included in the article.GizzyCatBella (talk) 06:44, 24 February 2018 (UTC)

Kazimierz Bartel and Stanisław Estreicher.GizzyCatBella (talk) 17:45, 24 February 2018 (UTC)

@GizzyCatBella: Bartel is a good catch. Arrested in 1941 in formerly Soviet-occupied Lwów, and murdered on 26 July 1941 by the order of Heinrich Himmler, shortly after the Massacre of Lwów professors. However, Stanisław Estreicher looks like an error to me. Arrested on 6 November 1939 during Sonderaktion Krakau, he was sent to Sachsenhausen concentration camp, where he died on 28 December 1939 of uremia. I did not find anything yet about any German offers of collaboration. ‘Poeticbent' talk 18:00, 24 February 2018 (UTC)

No, no, I'm almost certain that Estreicher too, I just need to find the proper source. Thanks for your help. Cheers.GizzyCatBella (talk) 18:21, 24 February 2018 (UTC)

@GizzyCatBella: I'm not sure if the book World War Two: Crucible of the Contemporary World - Commentary and Readings by Lily Xiao Hong Lee by Routledge, 2016, is a good source on WWII history of Poland specifically, because I didn't notice it being used in Wikipedia in regard to the September Campaign – but the name Stanislaw Estreicher is there along with a few other men approached by the Germans – also, I don't like the glaring mistakes in spelling (Stahczyk, Opiekuiicza, Gtôwna, Radziwiîl), indicative of research problems, on top of the general lack of inline citations in the book. ‘Poeticbent' talk 18:58, 24 February 2018 (UTC)

Thanks ! GizzyCatBella (talk) 19:08, 24 February 2018 (UTC)

@GizzyCatBella: I have a feeling Lily Xiao Hong Lee is copy-pasting names from Gross who does not use diacritics in his 1979 book Polish Society under German Occupation (quote): "Professor Stanislaw Estreicher, the most prominet Stanczyk, was reported to have been contacted by the Germans. The names of Princes Zdzislaw Lubomirski and Janusz Radziwill and that of Count Adam Ronikier were mentioned as other candidates consulted after Estreicher's refusal." ^{[~ p. 126]} Google.

That’s ok, I already modified the opening passage of CWAP article, I named Bartel and Witos and attached loads of references. Looks much better now, I’ll leave next line for another editor to amend, this way, line by line will get there. GizzyCatBella (talk) 20:41, 24 February 2018 (UTC)

Cześć, dzięki za edycje. Chciałem tylko zauważyć, że w przypadku z datą 22 marca nie chodzi tylko o to, że ona była "proposed most recently by Belchenko", ale również o to, że Belczenko jako pierwsza poszła do archiwum i zajrzała do księgi metrykalnej. Dlaczego nikt tego nie zrobił wcześniej? Tego nie wiem. Ale sprawę z datą urodzenia można uważać za zamkniętą. Pozdrawiam, --Volodymyr D-k (talk) 21:14, 3 March 2018 (UTC)

See my edits here-Talk:Aktion T4#After the war in West Germany--Woogie10w (talk) 15:07, 4 March 2018 (UTC)

I see so much incorrect information on Wikipedia, it would a full time job to correct and watch all the articles. This is just one example of West German disinformation that got plugged into our history books--Woogie10w (talk) 15:10, 4 March 2018 (UTC)

• Thanks Woogie10w, I saw that. The WP:LEDE has already been updated. Would you please look around for a possible second source with the same higher estimation to back up the already listed Foundation Memorial to the Murdered Jews of Europe (brochure). — Two weblinks are better than one, especially with such a dramatic change in numbers after so many years. Thanks, Poeticbent talk 15:39, 4 March 2018 (UTC)

Read my edits-The number killed was about 200,000 in Germany and Austria, in other European countries about 100,000 persons were also victims, listed in the sources cited--Woogie10w (talk) 15:44, 4 March 2018 (UTC)

• Excellent. Thanks, Poeticbent talk 15:58, 4 March 2018 (UTC)

The German source [3] lists Jerzy Grzelak as the researcher for Poland. You may be able to do a follow up on him on the Polish internet--Woogie10w (talk) 16:25, 4 March 2018 (UTC)

• Thanks. I looked into the PDF file from Jerzy Grzelak (above link) to see if there's anything in it of use for our purposes. I believe it is a detailed inventory of hospitals, asylums, psychiatric clinics and other institutions (nursing homes, etc.) with their names and locations in German and Polish. Probably important for research purposes, but of no use for us, per WP:NOTDIRECTORY. Poeticbent talk 19:04, 4 March 2018 (UTC)

What would you think of expanding that article together, there's more in both Polish and German, - can't tell if both the same. I'll start tomorrow. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:52, 4 March 2018 (UTC)

• Hi, Gerda Arendt   I just looked around. Zofia Posmysz seems like a fascinating person. I could help you with that. – Were you thinking of expanding her bio with the WP:DYK in mind? Poeticbent talk 21:34, 4 March 2018 (UTC)

1. http://news.o.pl/wp-content/i/2017/01/zofia-posmysz-mocak-krakow-2017-01-28-002.jpg
2. https://en.mocak.pl/literary-images-of-the-holocaust-the-passenger-by-zofia-posmysz
3. http://news.o.pl/2017/01/28/zofia-posmysz-mocak-krakow/

The German alone would not be enough for DYK, which needs to be 5*, but probably there's more. Thank you. - I came across your poem today. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:00, 4 March 2018 (UTC)

I got some German over: categories and works. "Life" is not yet done, awards are commented out, need translation and links. Will resume later today. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:28, 5 March 2018 (UTC)

I translated now all de, with the exception of some Polish prizes without articles, - you decide if worth mentioning. The refs at the end need to go to more places, and yours added, please. How about Harvard citations? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:51, 5 March 2018 (UTC)

• Hi, Gerda Arendt. Please take a look. The article has gone from 1,666 bytes on 2 September 2017‎ to 9,176 bytes on 5 March 2018‎.[4] Help give it the recognition it deserves by nominating it for WP:DYK, if you will, and feel free to touch it up further. All best, Poeticbent talk 19:08, 5 March 2018 (UTC)

Thank you so much! (Back from rehearsal) Will look and nominate, we have a week to do so. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:42, 5 March 2018 (UTC)

Excellent. Love the images. - How can the film be based on the novel which appeared in 1962, when the film director died in 1961? Film based on audio play? Delay in publication of the novel? - Once that's solved, I'll nominate. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:01, 5 March 2018 (UTC)

• Hi, Gerda Arendt. The film by Andrzej Munk (1962) was not based on the novel, but on her autobiographical audio play, Pasażerka z kabiny 45 (Passenger from Cabin 45), written in 1959, featuring Aleksandra Śląska and Jan Świderski. It was first adapted for television in 1960, directed by Andrzej Munk, featuring Ryszarda Hanin, Zofia Mrozowska, and Edward Dziewoński in the leading roles. The screenplay for the film was written by both Zofia Posmysz and Munk in 1961, not long before his untimely death. Poeticbent talk 22:19, 5 March 2018 (UTC)

New source: "Pasażerka" by Zofia Posmysz. Artykuł. Culture.pl

I came to tell you ;) - please add the source. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:26, 5 March 2018 (UTC)

nominated! - something seems wrong in the pic, "other version"? - I'd like this to become my DYK #1000. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:21, 6 March 2018 (UTC)

• @Gerda Arendt: Please don't edit the article right now; I'm expanding it as we speak from the article in Culture.pl (per above). Please go to Commons and remove the "other version" because it is misleading. I will take care of other things later. Cheers, Poeticbent talk 16:06, 6 March 2018 (UTC)

@Gerda Arendt: I'm done for now. Thanks for the DYK. Please remember to post it at Template talk:Did you know in the 5 March 2018‎ section. All best, Poeticbent talk 21:12, 6 March 2018 (UTC)

Amazing what you added! Thanks for the reminder, done. - I came across Teresa Żylis-Gara, - could you take a look if you can help getting away with the ugly tag? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:39, 6 March 2018 (UTC)

GizzyCatBella (talk) 22:06, 7 March 2018 (UTC)

GizzyCatBella (talk) 19:24, 8 March 2018 (UTC)

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Poeticbent - I just saw where this "article" was put up at AfD. I have never heard of this event; I am suspect of it. You may want to check this out. Cheers, Kierzek (talk) 21:46, 15 March 2018 (UTC)