Talk:Urban chicken keeping
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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
editThis article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Bhrager.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 12:09, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
Neutrality
editThe article is an essay which appears to be intended to promote keeping chickens. It does not maintain a tone suitable for an encyclopaedic article and fails to present a balance of viewpoints. Fæ (talk) 14:19, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
I have removed the Urban Chickens Network external link and am editing to improve neutrality. I own hens in Durham, North Carolina and am editing this entry to provide research to address common concerns regarding urban chickens. Thanks. Srsanford (talk) 15:07, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
Sorry - I don't have a username or know anything about how to tag this post, but I clicked on discussion to see if neutrality is discussed after reading the article. I don't know what improvements were made but this still reads strongly like a pro-urban chicken essay and not a wiki entry. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.114.31.161 (talk) 00:33, 29 April 2011 (UTC)
Bias
editI believe this term might be used in American sources but may not be used in other countries. If insufficient quality sources demonstrating usage internationally are found, I suggest this is clarified in the lead to ensure that there is no confusion about this being an American neologism used by campaigning groups. Fæ (talk) 15:16, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
I have added a source which indicates that this is a traditional global activity. The particular problem in North America is the local ordinances which were introduced to prevent this and which are now being pushed back. Colonel Warden (talk) 15:34, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
- My point related to the term "urban chicken", I daresay you could find several hundred thousand references to chicken rearing in various locations but the sources for the term "urban chicken" appear to be limited to American usage. For example in Schiere's book cited in the article the words "urban" and "chicken" occur but the phrase itself is not used. Fæ (talk) 16:05, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
- It is our policy that Wikipedia is not a dictionary. This particular phrase is not the topic here. Colonel Warden (talk)
- I would support such a rename to avoid confusion, how about Urban chicken rearing in order to make it clear that the article is neither about the term "Urban chicken" or the birds themselves but the practice of chicken rearing in non-rural locations? Fæ (talk) 16:15, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
- I prefer urban chickens as the title as it is briefer and seems clear enough. I shall therefore revert. Colonel Warden (talk) 12:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
I disagree with your move revert, it appears to arbitrary and has the consequence of making the title look like a promotion for http://urbanchickens.org and geographically biased to American memes as per my original issues with this article. However after considering past discussions about your behaviour on ANI, I shall remove this page from my watchlist rather than having to worry about drama. Thanks, Fæ (talk) 13:54, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
- The fact that a company has the same name as an article's subject is not a reason to change that article's name. There are ample news results are for Urban chickens [1]. Instead of attacking the editor, a better thing would be to have sought a third party's opinion. Dream Focus 17:15, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
- Have you done any real work on the article, like Colonel Warden has? Your largest edit was to remove a massive amount of information [2] instead of just trimming it down, or seeking out references. Noise, odor, and other concerns should be listed in the article. I'm going to go work on it now. Try to work with the material, and improve an article, not just wipe out large chunks. Dream Focus 17:18, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
- I unreservedly withdraw all criticism of Colonel Warden and have struck out my comment. I believe my earlier edits to reduce non-neutral prose and correct factual errors were to the benefit of the article, you are free to revert everything I have contributed if you feel that helps Wikipedia. Should you wish to discuss these matters with me, please do so on my talk page rather than here as it is no longer on my watch-list as I mentioned earlier and I have no intention of contributing further to an article where I am unwelcome and leave it in your capable hands. Thanks, Fæ (talk) 17:38, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
- You did not correct anything, you just mass deleted most of it. That isn't helping. I easily found references through Google news archive search, many different sources saying the same thing. I have thus added this back to the article. [3] Dream Focus 17:49, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
- I unreservedly withdraw all criticism of Colonel Warden and have struck out my comment. I believe my earlier edits to reduce non-neutral prose and correct factual errors were to the benefit of the article, you are free to revert everything I have contributed if you feel that helps Wikipedia. Should you wish to discuss these matters with me, please do so on my talk page rather than here as it is no longer on my watch-list as I mentioned earlier and I have no intention of contributing further to an article where I am unwelcome and leave it in your capable hands. Thanks, Fæ (talk) 17:38, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
- Have you done any real work on the article, like Colonel Warden has? Your largest edit was to remove a massive amount of information [2] instead of just trimming it down, or seeking out references. Noise, odor, and other concerns should be listed in the article. I'm going to go work on it now. Try to work with the material, and improve an article, not just wipe out large chunks. Dream Focus 17:18, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
Merge?
editThis article and the Chickens as pets article should probably be merged, since they are talking about exactly the same activity, even if from slightly different perspectives. If you look at the news sources, nearly all the people keeping chickens as pets are urbanites or suburbanites, and many of the urban chicken keepers think of their charges as pets. Steven Walling 16:20, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
- Against merge Articles are both long enough on their own, and do not duplicate 99% of their information. Also people who aren't in an urban environment keep chickens as pets, probably more than city folks do. They aren't as popular as ducks though, you seeing them for sell more often. Dream Focus 16:28, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
- Just FYI: This doesn't have to be a vote. If it's clear from regular discussion most of us don't want to merge, then we won't. Steven Walling 16:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
- Oppose The activities are not the same. The lead of this article states that the primary reasons for keeping chickens in the city are for food and income. I had previously mentioned pets but removed this when I came across a good source which said otherwise. This source states that a significant number of households keep chickens on a substantial scale, having coops with ~100 chickens. Colonel Warden (talk) 17:08, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
- Yeah, but the sources show that it's actually as pets too included in the phenomenon. They're hardly exclusive. Steven Walling 01:50, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
- The topics are orthogonal as one might keep chickens as pets anywhere, not just in the city. We have a hierarchy of topics to contend with. The broad topic is the keeping of chickens in general. The trouble is perhaps that the main article has been called poultry farming rather than poultry keeping. Colonel Warden (talk) 07:58, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
I didnt even know an article for "urban chickens" existed. Portillo (talk) 02:50, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
- Urban chickens are far more sophisticated than their rural cousins, and thus need an article about their cultural preferences, favorite dinning areas, theater, and whatnot. ;) This article has been around for exactly one year today. Happy birthday article. And may you inform and encourage others to build more cities for chickens. Dream Focus 22:03, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
LOL. Portillo (talk) 04:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
- Support. Individually, the articles are dubious, narrow synthesis from low quality sources, some very poor, others newspaper curiosity stories aka slow news filler. The overlap between "keeping" and "as pets" is massive. Also, all backyard poultry should be covered together. I'm having trouble deciding whether User:Dream Focus is being even in part serious. I propose the merge title to be Urban poultry. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 05:27, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
- You do realize this discussion ended back in 2010 don't you? If you want to start a new merge discussion you have to tag both articles and start a new section for the discussion. Dream Focus 05:39, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
External links modified
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Requested move 28 June 2019
edit- The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: Not moved. Consensus is to not change this title. (non-admin closure) В²C ☎ 21:46, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
Urban chicken keeping → ? – The current title is confusing, considering that we currently do not have an article (or a redirect to an article) named "Chicken keeping" or even "Chicken keep", and not do we have an article named "Urban chicken" (which is currently a redirect towards this article.) Either way, the subject "urban chicken" would probably not be a notable topic as a stand-alone article.) Either way though, the current title is confusing, but I have no idea how this article should be renamed. Steel1943 (talk) 21:21, 28 June 2019 (UTC) --Relisting. Steven Crossin 16:25, 8 July 2019 (UTC)
- Oppose Current title seems fine to me. We don't have an article called Chicken keeping, but we have Chicken farming. This article could have been named Urban chicken farming for consistency, but that seems like a bad idea, since the word 'farming' carries implications of something done professionally and on a large scale. And "chicken keeping" is a term used in some of the references. I guess it's a little confusing that the article title would seem to exclude people in rural areas who keep a small number of backyard chickens (which presumably happens). Is that what you're getting at? Colin M (talk) 22:59, 28 June 2019 (UTC)
- Sorry for the move without discussion but there's clearly not a distinct "urban chicken" concept that the article was about. I agree this title isn't perfect, but it seems the best and went with some sources. A restructured merge with chickens as pets possibly under a different title could work since similar themes are covered. Reywas92Talk 23:23, 28 June 2019 (UTC)
- It's not a matter of "urban chickens" being something that one might keep. Its a matter of "chicken keeping" as something that is done in urban places. I think the current title is OK – it just needs to be parsed correctly, and the opening sentences of the article are sufficient to clarify it if anyone is confused about what the title means. However, I do not object to the title suggested below by SelfieCity – although it might be a little overly pedantic. —BarrelProof (talk) 00:25, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
- Support Chicken-keeping in urban areas, which is unambiguous, per article/my opinion. --Comment by Selfie City (talk about my contributions) 00:22, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
- Oppose. Perpetuates narrow WP:Synthesis articles. Instead, merge with Chickens as pets into Urban poultry. The overlap between backyard chickens as pets and backyard chickens for eggs is huge, and the difference for doing the same with ducks or quail is negligible. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 05:17, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
- Revert to original name of Urban chicken. And this article is too different from chickens as pets, they have enough valid information to remain on their own. If you want to discus a merge discussion then tag both articles properly. You can have chickens as pets and not be in a city. Dream Focus 05:37, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
- Urban chicken sound like a meat. Urban chickens? Why exclude the duck and quail? Chickens as pets is a really bad article, maybe it has a place at simple:Chickens as pets, but not on a real Wikipedia. Compare simple:chicken: "Chickens are well known for their eggs. Many people eat them for their breakfast. The eggs can be prepared in many different ways."--SmokeyJoe (talk) 05:43, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
Needs updated citations
editA lot of the source material links have gone 404. A lot has been published on the subject in the past few years so we should be able to restore and improve the content. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Knoxinbox (talk • contribs) 15:26, 9 September 2019 (UTC)