Talk:Sani Abacha

Hi tedio9us page guardians ; the link for citation 36 is broken; a new link for the updated document might be https://www.transparency.org/en/news/25-corruption-scandals

https://www.transparency.org/files/content/corruptionqas/Political_corruption_topic_guide_2014.pdf

no chance I could edit this page, since you are in charge. go for it — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.101.48.113 (talk) 21:45, 10 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

I have made this a bio-stub—there's a lot more to said about Abacha; especially his role in previous coups)

The page on Laurent-Désiré Kabila opens with a warning about advance fee fraud. Should this warning be made a template, and used on other relevant pages such as this one? — ciphergoth 08:48, July 27, 2005 (UTC)

Emphatically not! That has nothing to do with either of these men, and already has its own article. I would appreciate it if you removed that warning from the Kabila article, but I'll ask you first instead of reverting your purple box. --Ardonik.talk()^*

Update: it wasn't ciphergoth's box; it appears to have been written by Jimmy Wales. It was just removed anyway (see Talk:Laurent-Désiré Kabila.) --Ardonik.talk()^* 16:53, July 28, 2005 (UTC)

Could somebody please add a note that his death was termed as the "coup from heaven"? I'd give a google link, but I really need to stop editing pages when I'm supposed to be researching for my big ap test tomorrow. Thanks! Mysticfeline 01:44, 9 May 2006 (UTC)Reply

I am currently dealing with Sani Abacha's widow, the hajia Maryam Abacha. It turns out that he deposited 21.3 million dollars in three trunk boxes that have been secreted into a security company (City Trust Security United) with specific instructions that his widow transfer the money for investment to a foreign partner located overseas. I think that this should be in the Wikipedia article.

Smith Jones 03:36, 23 August 2006 (UTC)Reply

either this is supposed to be 'funny' or you are ensnared in a nigerian email scam, which in some ways is even funnier, if more tragic. 24.4.132.165 (talk) 04:00, 20 September 2009 (UTC)Reply

Even though you could be working for or with Mr. Abacha's widow if some info isn't published then it is original research and should not be present in the article. On the contrary, if you have seen it somewhere would you care to cite the source. Lincher 01:12, 24 August 2006 (UTC)Reply

Oh, does it count? Well, I better remove it then since I can't prove it (yet). Would a newspaper article about my windfall count as a source? If so, after I pay my demurrage fees and get the money, I'll try to get a reporter to write an article about the windfall. But in the mean time, I guess I should remove it. Smith Jones 21:44, 25 August 2006 (UTC)Reply

Maybe if there is a news source that covers it. Lincher 17:00, 26 August 2006 (UTC)Reply

ONe will undoubtedly come out as soon as the demurrage fractionalizes and I get the money transferred into my account. Smith Jones 02:35, 28 August 2006 (UTC)Reply

• Was Sani Abacha married, and did he really have a wife named Miriam? The article is unclear on that point. --Metropolitan90 19:59, 21 October 2006 (UTC)Reply

If you know about it, then add it with from reliable source, if not, then the article doesn't really talk about that. Lincher 22:26, 21 October 2006 (UTC)Reply

I didn't know about it, so I looked for a source, and found a reference on the BBC News web site that his widow's name is Maryam. --Metropolitan90 23:16, 21 October 2006 (UTC)Reply

Abacha died in the company of two Indian prostitutes - according to Nigerian papers (see references), according to Karl Maier and the New York Times (see references), and according to the Daily Telegraph, to Time Magazine and to The Economist as well. If you consider it an "irresponsible unconfirmed speculation", Uznw, then back up your claim, please.--Ankimai 13:30, 27 February 2007 (UTC)Reply

@Ankimai but they said he was poisoned 105.112.70.220 (talk) 10:36, 24 September 2022 (UTC)Reply

Abacha was an infamous fmr. Nigerian head of state, however, he was never indicted of war crimes or crimes against humanity. According to the highly publicised testimony of Al Mustapha(Abachas CSO), Abacha suddenly collapsed, and subsequently died. Their were no mention of prostitutes, and Abacha was not ordinarily known as a womanizer. Recall that Abacha had only one wife. That is very exceptional for a powerful muslim from Northern Nigeria. Many Nigerians from the Southern part of the country were happy to hear that Abacha died(as well as some Western Diplomats), because of the delays in bringing back democracy, excesses of Nigerian security forces, and the level of poverty and suffering in the country. Recall also, that Abacha had been ill for a while, and was suspected of suffering from either a heart or liver disease. Balance your report about Abacha, with the fact that Abacha was the Chief of Army Staff/Defense Minister when Nigeria intervened in Liberia and Sierra Leone, and was Head of State when Nigeria intervened against the RUF, and brought back the exiled democractically elected Tijan Ahmed Kabba to power. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.0.51.194 (talk • contribs) 17:13, 27 February 2007

I found the last version (which describes Abacha's death in an orgy of 2 Indian men, 1 transexual, and 2 "year 9 girls") to not match at all the source document it was linked to, an indian newspaper, that describes 2 indian female prostitutes. I deleted what appeared to be slanderous or false information, but retained the link, and a more general description. 5amuel (talk) 14:55, 8 November 2008 (UTC)Reply

He died of a heart attack....Where, when, how? Ohh, this article is as pathetic as the main Nigeria article was. So many people arguing and it's still not in order. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Borninbronx10 (talk • contribs) 20:40, 1 April 2009 (UTC)Reply

Autochthony writes : - surely the difficulty is that this was the death of a [Nationally] powerful man - fro a regional Superpower. Perhaps there was something untoward. Rumour suggests so. But only rumour - is thre a Post mortem to prove 'drugs' in the decedent? Or eye-witnesses? The late President Abacha may not have been everyone's role model, but we do seek facts. If you have them - do, please, add them. Many thanks. Autochthony wrote. 2155z 25 August 2010. 86.148.177.1 (talk) 20:55, 25 August 2010 (UTC)Reply

I keep seeing this in the spellcheck- as it is a magazine title, should it not be italicized ? --RichardMills65 (talk) 05:22, 21 February 2012 (UTC)Reply

The legacy section contradicts the allegations and facts presented in the Human Rights Abuses section and seems very much like propaganda to me, since the tone of the entire section seems to be that of praise for democratic achievements for a man who has also been linked to repression and killings of pro-democracy activists. Someone should really review that section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.77.151.201 (talk) 18:09, 25 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

Section has now been deleted as it is 100% weasel words. SaintedLegion (talk) 11:30, 18 August 2015 (UTC)Reply

I am sorry but Nierian Wikipedia is becoming a place where Southerners display their historic contempt for anything north. how on earth is the opinion of Wole Soyinka relevant. the section also went ahead to claim that Abacha was unpopular domestically, really? you guys done south might have hated him but Abacha was very popular in the North and South- South. 41.203.71.181 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 19:20, 17 July 2016 (UTC)Reply

There is no need to be sorry. But you're just wrong. Wole Soyinka is one of Nigeria's leading public intellectuals, probably its most well-known - his opinion is relevant. And the article cites sources for its claims on Abacha's popularity. Find sources for what you claim about Abacha's popularity and edit the article. Either way, your regional factionalism is not needed. Mesh22 (talk) 01:58, 19 July 2016 (UTC)Reply

There's an undue reliance on southern nigerian sources here. Why should the opinion of a wole soyinka take precedence over academic and scholarly work? I get that a lot of southerners dont like Abacha but one does not have the right to tamper with history. This article is disputed at best. Alaminalpha (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 16:57, 19 September 2016 (UTC)Reply

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• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140302111720/http://www.punchng.com/news/sharing-centenary-award-with-abacha-an-insult-soyinka/ to http://www.punchng.com/news/sharing-centenary-award-with-abacha-an-insult-soyinka/
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060615044858/http://server-wg.de:8080/nigeria/inhalt_a_z.html to http://server-wg.de:8080/nigeria/inhalt_a_z.html

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The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page have been nominated for deletion:

• Abacha And Gaddafi.jpg
• Abacha And MKO Abiola.jpg
• Abacha and Abdulsalami.jpg
• Abacha with Jim Uwobodo at the National Constitutional Conference 1994.jpg
• Nelson Mandela visits Nigeria.jpg
• Nigerian Soldier in Liberia.jpg
• Sani Abacha and Muhammadu Buhari in 1985.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 16:07, 4 April 2019 (UTC)Reply

On security, the source is an opinion piece hence a primary source, the section is not properly researched and may give a reader confusing and biased information. The section almost claims the administration violated human rights to achieve whatever success in state security. There is no statistics for the claims and again, a better source than a primary source. There is little reference made to potential human rights violations while seemingly praising the 'achievements'. It looks like NPOV.

Statesman, by whom, which people and what are the sources?

On restructuring. It was done for rotational presidency and to share derivation revenues, states still exist, it was never done for administrative reasons. For a restructuring to be worthwhile it has to have some law, what is the law that gave the country the restructuring, and is it still relevant.Alexplaugh12 (talk) 17:38, 8 April 2020 (UTC)Reply

A certain user has used the "Statesman" label for the subject. This is problematic. I called out the fact that this user only used the Statesman label for a select group of former military rulers (Babangida, Abacha). After calling this out, said user quickly used the label on all former leaders of Nigeria. This is disingenuous. I think the test for this is simple: credible media assignment of the statesman label can put the debate to rest.

@Femzie: updated the subject's introduction thus "...was a Nigerian dictator, kleptocrat and military general". It is widely reported across multiple international news sources how repressive the subject was and how he pilfered Nigeria's wealth for personal gain. I provided substantiation for the Kleptocracy from the Department of Justice, that has spearhearded a lot of the loot recovery and the dictatorship by the BBC @ [1]. @Alexplaugh12:I am very concerned about Zerzuran's repeated updates to certain Wikipedia entries which seem more like image laundering rather than sticking to the facts and being neutral. The undoing of my substantiation reads like information suppression and that Zerzuran' justified under a very vague "adherence to policies and guides".

Furthermore, I believe Zerzuran is deserving of some form of sanction for edit warring and not making a case in the Talk Pages. Kunkuru (talk) 02:39, 19 May 2020 (UTC)Reply

I think Zerzuran has decided to be not neutral. Seems his writings are meant to represent Abacha's supporters and not any retort to good sources. If he does not comment soon, you can put back the lede sources. I suspect they understand the okada leadership of abacha. Alexplaugh12 (talk) 02:28, 20 May 2020 (UTC)Reply

@Alexplaugh12: To protect the integrity of this platform and to prevent a gratuitous edit war, I'm flagging the suppression of properly cited and publicly available information by @Zerzuran: Kunkuru (talk) 12:21, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply

@Alexplaugh12: To protect the integrity of this platform and to prevent a gratuitous edit war, I'm flagging the suppression of properly cited and publicly available information by @B Enkay 45: Kunkuru (talk) 22:06, 4 October 2020 (UTC)Reply

This article already has an entire 'Corruption' section that describes all allegations of graft against the subject. Insisting on describing him as a 'Kleptocrat' only amounts to character assassination and constitutes WP:LABEL and WP:TONE violation. B Enkay 45 (talk) 22:36, 4 October 2020 (UTC)Reply

That's interesting you use the term 'allegation' when so much of the "Abacha loot" has been recovered from successive Nigerian governments. Nigerian and international media have documented the loot and the terms kleoptocracy and kleptocrat have been consistently used to describe the subject's actions. I guess these objective sources^{[1][2][3][4][5][6]} are involved in character assassination? The Wikipedia ethos will prevail and no amount of image laundering will sully the integrity of this platform. Neither will the incorrect citation of Wikipedia labels hide what's publicly available information. Kunkuru (talk) 01:06, 5 October 2020 (UTC)Reply

I am not disputing any of those facts but technically they still remain 'Allegations' as the Man is deceased, and never really stood trial. You can go ahead, and include those sources along with your disclaimer in the 'Corruption' section (If it already hasn't been done), and maybe make a case for the 'Kleptocracy'.B Enkay 45 (talk) 01:43, 5 October 2020 (UTC)Reply

The B-class criteria #1 states; The article is suitably referenced, with inline citations. It has reliable sources, and any important or controversial material which is likely to be challenged is cited and #4, The article is reasonably well-written.

There is a subsection "insufficient context" (April 2020), inline "citation needed" tags (March 2022), and unsourced content. Reassess article to C-class. -- Otr500 (talk) 13:06, 5 March 2023 (UTC)Reply