Talk:Hoklo people

Hoklo (福佬, POJ: Hok-ló) is sometimes also written as the phonetically similar 鶴佬 (Ho̍h-ló), 河洛 (Hô-lo̍k), 學佬 (ha̍k-láu). It looks like the Ban-lam version of this article has some explanations. Oniows 13:13, 1 March 2006 (UTC)Reply

I have noticed this mass renaming of Hokkien as Hoklo. Being a Hokkien myself, I have not even heard of this term. May I know if this is factually accurate, because Hokkien means Fujian in Mandarin, and refers more to the Mannanese speaking populance?--Huaiwei 05:07, 21 August 2005 (UTC)Reply

As far as I know the two terms more or less refer to the same people and language. Hoklo is more commonly used in Taiwan, whereas Hokkien is common in Southeast Asia. Taiwanese people won't identify the Taiwanese language as Hokkien, but Hoklo (which is also written as 河洛). In Cantonese-speaking areas Hoklo (usually pronounced as 學佬 or 鶴佬) and 福建人 (Fujianese people) are equally common to refer to the people, but probably Teochiu people don't identify themselves as 福建人. — Instantnood 07:49, August 21, 2005 (UTC)

Me either, I haven't heard this term used elsewhere except in Taiwan and Hong Kong. It is a cantonese loan word to describe Fujian people in Guangdong and Hong Kong and I think some people have used it as the ONLY term to describe people originating from Fujian. In South East Asia, Hokkien is the word used to describe people with Fujian heritage.--Visik 05:35, 30 May 2007 (UTC)Reply

I think it is proper to describe people originating from Fujian as either Minnan (Hokkien) or Minbei (Fuzhou).

I think it's probably okay for this page to refer to "Hoklo people" because it specifically refers to the population of Taiwan, and should use the name they use for themselves. There could possibly be a separate article about "Hokkien people" as an ethnos, but I don't know enough about them to write it. Grace Note 04:36, 31 May 2007 (UTC)Reply

This page appears to refer to all Hokkien people as Hoklo. While in reality, it seems only the Taiwanese Hokkien people say "hoklo". Shouldn't this be renamed to Hokkien? I've never heard anybody anywhere say anything except Hokkien for the people. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.25.101.107 (talk) 23:57, 19 June 2008 (UTC)Reply

I think that the statement about this needs sourcing. At base, Hoklos wouldn't seem to have much ancestry in common with the Austronesian Taiwanese at all. Can we have a source for the "undocumented marriages" and maybe rewrite this sentence to be clearer about what we are meaning? Grace Note 04:45, 6 May 2007 (UTC)Reply

It is not yet for sure, if Hoklo people are Han-Chinese or not. Some political parties say they are, some say they're not. As well as some researches say their bloodline goes to mainly to China, and some say not. Therefore I edited that sentence to "be claimed" to point out, that there is no verified proof. 快樂龍 13:13, 16 February 2009 (UTC)Reply

Please read Han Chinese. This issue has been covered.--pyl (talk) 13:14, 16 February 2009 (UTC)Reply

i removed the content that was sourced with Dr. Lin's claim that southern chinese are pure yueh.

first of all, she has no PHD in history, she is a geneticist, yet her entire report does not mention a single result of her tests. it is a statement claiming that northern chinese are "pure" chinese, and southern chinese yueh which is in fact laughable. she is a geneticist, not a historian. for example, if a person wit a PHD in botany claimed the romans were growing 500 feet tall sunslowers, youd want him to show you his phd in roman history....

First of all let me say that any editor is completely able to re-revert my edit.

I find Yhjow's change of

Hoklo (endonym Hok-ló, Hō-ló, or Ho̍h-ló) commonly refers to those Chaozhou people, Hainanese people and Taiwanese people who claim Han Chinese ancestry from the southern part of Fujian province of China. Large populations of similar background can also be found in Malaysia, Guangdong, Hong Kong, Philippines, Singapore, Burma, Thailand, and Indonesia where they are usually referred to as Hokkien, meaning Fujian in Min Nan language. In Hong Kong's New Territories, "Fukienese" often refers to all Min Nan speakers relocating from Fujian.

to

"The Hoklo People (Chinese: 河洛人) are Han people whose traditional Ancestral homes are in southern Fujian of China. They are also known by various endonym as Hok-ló, Hō-ló, or Ho̍h-ló, or other related terms such as Min-nan people (閩南人） or Hokkiens (福建人）. "

to be contentious and requiring discussion before the page is changed.

In particular, the change from (paraphrasing) "Hoklo are A, B and C people who claim Han ancestry" to "Hoklo are Han who come from Fujian" seems to be quite a claim to make. There is a large difference between saying someone is a member of a group, who also has ties to another group, and saying that someone is a member of that other group. As a personal example, my mother is French, yet I do not claim to be French and would object to someone calling me so, as I was born in, grew up in and identify myself as someone from Australia.

Since there seems to be friction between the Han ethnic group and other ethnic groups in China, and since a sizable portion of Taiwanese people identify themselves as Taiwanese, not Chinese, I would prefer that Yhjow's change be discussed here before being re-added to the article. Simon-in-sagamihara (talk) 09:28, 15 April 2010 (UTC)Reply

I disagree with your assertion, legally even in ROC, not only are minnanese are classified as chinese, every citizen of ROC has the word chinese in their passport so this is not about the issue you are claiming it is. furthermore Hoklo do not refer exclusively to those 3 group, so retaining it make the article un-inclusive, unless equal weight is given to all subgroup, one cannot argue for preferential treatment if one is unwilling to do the research and properly extend the writing to cover all groups. and of course member of those 3 group may not even be Hoklo, for example Hakka and natives. in fact I find that the former is more objectionable to the political reality because it defines taiwanese as "a people" that is tied to han chinese which might be true for 95%, but there is still the 5% who are not and it open up a can of worms as to are the native "not taiwanese people"? like why would they want to be associated if your thinking is against it? 58.182.210.94 (talk) 04:38, 5 September 2018 (UTC)Reply

Can't find this source: Ben Sia, 《新加坡的漢語方言》 (The Chinese Languages and Dialects of Singapore)，1988. Tried Worldcat, and an internet search engine. Does anyone have an identifier, ISBN or other information? Hongthay (talk) 18:55, 14 March 2017 (UTC)Reply

@Esenotnacytriddiputs: Please format your additions properly and cite your sources. I realise the current list isn't well-referenced to begin with but it's no reason to make it worse. (Notifying Lemongirl942.) Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
to reply to me 10:58, 8 April 2017 (UTC)Reply

@Esenotnacytriddiputs: Please read WP:V, and Help:List if necessary. Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
to reply to me 10:40, 9 April 2017 (UTC)Reply

You can stop pinging—I've indefinitely blocked the user. And all they had to do was show up and discuss their edits. El_C 10:43, 9 April 2017 (UTC)Reply

@El C: The pinged user is only blocked for 24 hours. Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
to reply to me 13:39, 9 April 2017 (UTC)Reply

never mind, was indefinitely blocked by another admin. Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
to reply to me 07:55, 10 April 2017 (UTC)Reply

  An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Hoklo Australians and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 July 17#Hoklo Australians until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. _signed, Rosguill ^talk 16:16, 17 July 2022 (UTC)Reply

@Mlgc1998, for elaboration regarding changes, see MOS:ZH (e.g. linked terms should generally not include characters), as well as the fact that

• "Mandarin" does not refer to a specific language. If the entire Mandarin family is meant, that should be explicit.
• "USA" should be avoided as a clunky abbreviation on Wikipedia, per MOS:US.

Cheers. Remsense诉 09:10, 25 March 2024 (UTC)Reply