Talk:Angel Haze

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  This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 17:17, 17 January 2022 (UTC)Reply

Although a person's preferred gender is clearly allowable, the plural "their" is only colloquially gender neutral, and should not be used for singular persons. Although Wikipedia seems "progressive" in this regard (as in other dubious instances), style guides do not support this use. This can easily confuse EASL and younger readers into believing that it is acceptable in every case. Here's a quote that illustrates the fallacy: "The use of singular they may be more accepted in British English than in American English,[80] or vice versa.[81]" Now what is one to make of that? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.200.16.214 (talk) 10:14, 26 February 2015 (UTC)Reply

They Thee We She He Ze ... All I know is, my Grammar Teacher would have a shit fit over this page. Preceding unsigned comment added by User:J0eg0d at 03:17, 12 March 2015

It's regrettable that plural pronouns were uniformly substituted without discussion on this Talk page—much less narrative explanation or references to WP:RS within the article itself. Yet uncited sources suggest that Angel Haze has lately expressed a preference for such usage. See, e.g., Bitch Media and AfterEllen.

The case of Chelsea Manning may be a controlling precedent. Since Wikipedia's Manual of Style directs that a trans person should be referred to using pronouns that reflect the subject's latest expressed gender self-identification, our WP:BLP adheres to Manning's clearly stated wishes. This rule obtains to all phases of the subject's life.

Grammatical purists will naturally be aghast at seeing plural pronouns applied to the very singular Angel Haze. But this approach, however ungainly, seems consistent with our guidelines. JohnValeron (talk) 05:32, 12 March 2015 (UTC)Reply

The article says she's pansexual, not trans. The bio linked on her official site refers to her as female. --Walor (talk) 02:40, 14 March 2015 (UTC)Reply

Walor, thanks for your comment. In proposing the Chelsea Manning example as guidance, I did not mean to suggest that Angel Haze mirrors Manning. But it's fair to extrapolate from the way Wikipedia deals with Manning's transgender status as to how we ought to treat Angel Haze's pansexuality. I think the same rules apply. As to the bio you mention, that's probably a case of an artist's record company not updating their website. The Bitch Media and AfterEllen sources to which I linked were both posted within the last 10 days. Angel Haze's preference for plural pronouns is a very recent development. JohnValeron (talk) 03:07, 14 March 2015 (UTC)Reply

This is an example of political correctness going seriously insane. No further words are needed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.30.236.86 (talk) 22:34, 18 April 2015 (UTC)Reply

Your point being? I didn't realise it was political correctness gone mad to refer to someone by the pronouns they prefer. Take it up with Haze themself, we simply deliver information in a respectful way. Azealia911 (talk) 02:47, 19 April 2015 (UTC)Reply

They've literally mentioned their pronouns here: https://twitter.com/angelhaze/status/566688238396375041. To refer to them as she/her throughout this article is a case of trans erasure. It is grammatically correct. If it doesn't meet your "style guidelines", then you can change your style guidelines to not be so transphobic. 82.45.79.239 (talk) 22:49, 28 September 2015 (UTC)Reply

Angel Haze is openly agender (which is considered to be part of the umbrella term trans*) and uses only the pronouns they/them. It is not a question of grammar, though it IS grammatically correct. It is erasure to not respect a person's pronouns, but perhaps most relevant is that it would be INACCURATE to use any pronouns other than those which Angel Haze has stated to use - they/them/their/theirs/themself

Do not change their pronouns to she - doing so is transphobic and unacceptable. Intentionally misgendering a person is considered an act of violence. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:603:4300:7EB4:485:80AC:9170:6441 (talk) 00:22, 29 September 2015 (UTC)Reply

I changed the article to the use of names. The inclusion of them/their is confusing under the WP:MUSIC banner as it indicates that it is a band name and there is more then one member. The article clear states it is a name used by one individual. Karst (talk) 09:19, 31 October 2015 (UTC)Reply

Just because someone claims to be something doesn't make it true. For example, as someone with literally no knowledge of gender theory, I think there are only two genders—male and female. That is wrong. There is such thing as "agender." Furthermore, referring to a single person in the third person plural is grammatically correct. Raykeea Wilson is a nonbinary individual. These are all facts. Believing otherwise makes you a reality-phobic idiot. Being reality-phobic and misgendering her is idiotic and an act of violence because there is physical altercation involved (trans people getting clocked leads to murder). That is the truth spoken by pathetic university students who need to avoid triggering their PTSD because they were sexually assaulted.

I have removed all pronouns referring to Amber Haze. Haze has stated a willingness to be referred to as he, she, or they, without a clear preference for any of the three. Consistent use of a single pronoun would imply a preference for that pronoun, while the use of multiple pronouns throughout the article would create unnecessary ambiguity. Omitting pronouns entirely avoids misgendering Haze (who may have a preference not yet expressed), while also satisfying any style guide. Peter576 (talk) 01:50, 9 February 2018 (UTC)Reply

That's unnecessarily awkward. She said explicitly in that interview that she doesn't care how she's gendered, so it's not misgendering to refer to her as "she" (or "he" or "they"). And since most reliable sources go with "she", it makes sense for us to, too. -- irn (talk) 13:19, 9 February 2018 (UTC)Reply

That People link says "ex-girlfriend" but then it links to a People article that does not, in fact, support that claim [1] but only says the two kissed. Madonna and Britney Spears kissed — doesn't mean they're in a relationship. WP:BLP is very clear that unless there is confirmation from the subject or their representative, then a claim is speculation or rumor. We can go to RfC on this, but I'm sure WikiProject:Biography editors will not support unconfirmed personal claims. --Tenebrae (talk) 19:59, 3 June 2015 (UTC)Reply

At the moment we have to references to her age from the Guardian and the Daily Telegraph. They are a year apart and the Guardian has her age as 21 in 2012 while the Telegraph has it as 22 in 2013. That points to the year 1991. I do not see a reference for the day ad month? Karst (talk) 07:12, 1 April 2017 (UTC)Reply

I came here for the same thing. As it stands, we have two sources in the article that point to 1991[2][3] and one that points to 1992[4], assuming that her birthday is correct, which I don't see sourced anywhere. I just did a little googling, and I found a third source for 1991[5], so I'm going to change it to reflect that. But it would be great if we could get a better source on this. -- irn (talk) 15:48, 31 January 2018 (UTC)Reply

So, while, it's definitely known that Angel and Ireland Baldwin dated, it's hard finding evidence of them actually dating since most of it was from instagram, and after their breakup, they deleted almost all of the photos of the two of them together. Here is an interview of Angel saying that her and Ireland were dating (and have since broke up, but finding that source is a little bit harder, however, it's very evident that they did break up and are no longer together), and they slams the media for calling her and Ireland "just friends" --50.66.20.89 (talk) 00:27, 9 July 2017 (UTC)Reply

An IP just changed her birth name from Raeen to Raykeea. I just did some googling and found sources that support both. I don't have much time right now, but I didn't see anything particularly more compelling about one or the other. Can we get some sort of clarity on this? If not, we should we probably mention both. -- irn (talk) 21:25, 4 February 2018 (UTC)Reply

Shouldn't we use the professional name "Angel Haze" rather than "Wilson" when referring to them? Eminem's article for example doesn't refer to him as "Mathers". MaxBrowne2 (talk) 03:14, 22 October 2018 (UTC)Reply

In the Evening Standard 2015 interview, as quoted in the Wiki article, Haze says: "‘I sound like four people when I get written about as ‘they’. It drives me crazy." This suggests that, of all the options available, "they" is not this artist's preferred pronoun. The quote continues: "If you call me 'him' or 'her' it doesn't matter to me." 100.15.88.17 (talk) 17:33, 5 May 2019 (UTC)Reply