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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the miscellaneous page below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the discussion was: Keep * Pppery * it has begun... 05:20, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:Noam Cohen

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Wikipedia:Noam Cohen (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)​

We don't typically keep biographical articles or bibliographies in WP space, and I don't believe it's appropriate to have here. However, it's existed for so long at this location, I thought it best to nominate it instead of boldly moving it to user space, which is my preference at this point in time. Hey man im josh (talk) 03:17, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Thanks for finding this, Keep, and why not just mainspace it? as a list in his Wikipedia page (Noam Cohen). A treasure trove of articles on Wikipedia from the later 2000's on. Probably enough critical historical information here to keep as is, mainspace, or at least leave it in Wikipedia space as an exception to some rule or other. Should list and link it prominently on the Wikipedia in the news page etc. This one is worth digging around in. Randy Kryn (talk) 04:47, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Randy Kryn: There's an article in main space at Noam Cohen. Hey man im josh (talk) 05:26, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Can't this list be added to his page bibliography? They are examples of his articles on one subject, and fill out his bibliography well. Randy Kryn (talk) 12:53, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    That would be my preference, yes @Randy Kryn. I'm not a fan of the idea of author specific bibliographies about Wikipedia in WP space. It seems like a way to get around what we'd normally have regarding notability guidelines. Hey man im josh (talk) 14:40, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I don't think mainspace biographies tend to include bibliographies individual articles, which are a lot less significant than e.g. books. WP:INDISCRIMINATE. Sdkb talk 19:48, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Userify if anything, I think this is too navel-gazey for the main namespace, but it should absolutely be kept in some form. Graham87 (talk) 05:48, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Graham87, the concept of pages about Wikipedia being navel-gazing seems a bit outdated since Wikipedia is notable as the world's largest and most read encyclopedic source. Randy Kryn (talk) 12:53, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The concept of individual bibliographies about Wikipedia by author in Wiki space definitely fits the bill of navel-gazing from my perspective, regardless of the size of the site. Hey man im josh (talk) 14:39, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Indeed. Graham87 (talk) 14:43, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • keep - Project space is, by definition, navel-gazing. We have a thousand essays, joke pages, satire, historical discussions, and IIRC even a few We have a handful of journalists that frequently cover Wikipedia and typically do it well. Cohen's articles about Wikipedia are rare examples of someone actually getting the community's point of view right. As such (especially back when he was more active on the subject), his articles come up in discussion, referenced by Wikipedians. So someone compiled them in one place. Seems mildly useful, but more importantly I'm having trouble finding a deletion rationale here. I don't have an objection if someone wants to merge the three "beat reporters" pages together, but also don't see that as a big gain. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 13:08, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The rationale is clear, WP space is not for bios / bibliographies. The examples you mention of similar content in this space (2 other pages) were also created by the same author of this article. So someone compiled them in one place. – Wikipedia is not a web host. It's either relevant enough to have a list of article in main space, or relevant enough for a bibliography section of a journalist's article.
There needs to be a line between article and WP space. We don't just dump anything tangibly related to Wikipedia in its own page in WP space and WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS is a bad argument to support that. Hey man im josh (talk) 14:37, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's not a bio, but it is a bibliography. Where is the policy about no bibliographies you're referring to? Presumably we should also get rid of other bibliographies, then, like Wikipedia:List of academic studies about Wikipedia, Wikipedia:Wikipedia in the media, Wikipedia:Wikipedia in blogs, Wikipedia:Wikipedia in books, Wikipedia:Wikipedia in cartoons, etc., not to mention the hundreds of bibliographies produced by wikiprojects. I do not think projectspace is as pure in purpose and as inflexible as your characterizing here, per what I said above. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 14:58, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • keep Let's make a new rule that whenever any journalist or researcher publishes at least 10 articles where Wikipedia is the subject, and they do so in a top-tier venue like The New York Times or Slate, then Wikipedia: becomes a place to present their bibliographies. I have made no attempt to present biographies here, and only intended to list some of the best Wikipedia commentary which exists.
I am the creator. This is good information to index to publicly, rather than in userspace. The problem, if there is one, is that the Wikipedia: space does not have an existing format for cataloging it. Tag this as an essay or whatever works, because this content is comparable and at least as valuable as typical Wikipedia user essays. I also made Category:Wikipedia beat reporters and the other two article collections there. I would make more but unlike media platforms of similar popularity and impact, Wikipedia only attracts a journalist's attention every few years. This is the complete collection of top-tier Wikipedia beat reporters. Bluerasberry (talk) 14:49, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
And a fine collection it is, thanks Bluerasberry, I wasn't aware of the pages before this discussion. Another option (but may not be needed if the Keep comments continue), combine all three articles into one 'Press coverage of Wikipedia' page or something similarly named, either in mainspace or Wikipedia space. Randy Kryn (talk) 14:53, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Randy Kryn: Right, we already have press coverage by time at Category:Wikipedia press coverage and for example Wikipedia:Press coverage 2024. These three pages I set up are the only indexing of press coverage by author. Bluerasberry (talk) 14:56, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
A very fine collection.
I don’t agree with the recommendation to combine, as a multitude of such project pages should be easier to manage. SmokeyJoe (talk) 11:01, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Please don't hide the page as an article subpage. This nice article and its links fits well into Wikipedia's culture and history collection. It should be easily seen and accessible as its own page (with some links to it added elsewhere). And by the way, snow? Randy Kryn (talk) 00:51, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Having the page as a subpage does not make it hidden or hard to find. Wikipedia:Press coverage has a subpage: Wikipedia:Press coverage/An encyclopedia that is alive. If I want to access that page I might search for "wikipedia" and "alive" in the Wikipedia namespace. This will lead me to the desired page just the same as if it had not been a subpage: search result. —Alalch E. 01:10, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Of course if you know the name of the page then finding it is easy. That's not what I mean, the page should be a stand-alone page and not a subpage for readers who don't know its name or even that it exists. My personal choice would be to add the list of Wikipedia articles directly to Cohen's Wikipedia page, which would mainspace the list. Randy Kryn (talk) 01:36, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
One can find it by browsing the categories. If it was integrated better and had more incoming links, it wouldn't matter that it's a subpage: You click on the link and get to the page. Ensuring that it is not a subpage does not in any way increase it's findability and awareness that it exists. Making it a subpage creates an additional navigation to it: Subpages of Wikipedia:Press coverage via page information. —Alalch E. 02:03, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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