Talk:Protests against SOPA and PIPA: Difference between revisions

This article was nominated for deletion on 17 January 2012 (UTC). The result of the discussion was speedy keep.

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I took a screenshot during the blackout and uploaded it. I am sure the copyright belongs to the wikimedia foundation, until someone has a better picture or is able to get approval from wikimedia; is it alright if I uploaded it? Pseudoanonymous (talk) 06:03, 19 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Once the formalities are out of the way, of course? —WFC— 07:32, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Why not, but be prepared to be trumped by ITN! Mjroots (talk) 07:34, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Better to have it on DYK during the blackout ;-) It gets you a speedy-keep (if it's not, already). Alarbus (talk) 09:20, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

In the 00:00 UTC queue: Did you know... that Wikipedia is about to be blacked out for 24 hours? —WFC— 09:24, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

That's brilliant. Make is so. Alarbus (talk) 10:30, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I'm a bit out of my depth here, US politics not being in my sphere of interest. I've started a background section, with a link to the SOPA article. This section needs to cover the proposed acts (SOPA, PIPA), the background to the protest, and how the decision was reached and implemented. Before anyone argues that Wikipedia is not a source, that applies to using other Wikipedia articles as a source. The debates etc are not articles, and thus are useable by applying WP:IAR (IMHO). Mjroots (talk) 08:16, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Are any other language Wikipedias covering this? Mjroots (talk) 09:32, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It has been proposed in this section that Protests against SOPA and PIPA be renamed and moved to 2012 SOPA and PIPA blackout. A bot will list this discussion on the requested moves current discussions subpage within an hour of this tag being placed. The discussion may be closed 7 days after being opened, if consensus has been reached (see the closing instructions). Please base arguments on article title policy, and keep discussion succinct and civil. Please use {{subst:requested move}}. Do not use {{requested move/dated}} directly. Links: current log • target log • direct move

2012 Wikipedia blackout → 2012 SOPA and PIPA blackout – In line with what I put on my comment in this page's AfD page, I feel this page really should become a page about the 2012 website blackout in general, not just the Wikipedia blackout. I don't feel it's particularly notable if it just covers the Wikipedia blackout, after all, an article on every prominent website to blackout would be silly. I do, however, feel that an article on the blackouts in general would be notable (and more interesting to read). I don't necessarily feel my proposed title is the best one, it's a little clunky, so other suggestions would be good, but I do feel the page title does need to be changed to one covering the blackouts in general. Xmoogle (talk) 11:23, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

An alternative would be to create that article, covering the blackout worldwide and leaving this article to specifically cover the Wikipedia blackout. I'm not against a rename, but my gut feeling is that we will be able to sustain two articles. Mjroots (talk) 11:40, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I'm just not sure what the point of two articles would be, though. Wikipedia (as a topic) isn't more notable than a lot of the other sites participating, and it would seem to me to be a pointless division of information. Xmoogle (talk) 11:43, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, a move would be good - there is no reason that the Wikipedia-related content would be "too big" to cover in an umbrella article along with other stuff. --Errant ^(chat!) 11:48, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

As another supporter of a rename, may I suggest moving to 2012 SOPA protest blackout?  BarkingFish  12:07, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

If this blackout is protesting SOPA and PIPA, would 2012 SOPA, PIPA protest blackout be a more accurate title? Xmoogle (talk) 12:13, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I think most recognize this was rallied around SOPA (prior to the House committee postponing any more discussion on it). as long as the lead's clear that PIPA's involved, I'd go with the SOPA only title. --MASEM (t) 14:02, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I suggest 2012 US Anti-Piracy Law Protest. "Laws" plural could also be used, but I note that the House and Senate bills would eventually become one law if enacted. "Protest" is broader than "blackout"; - with only "blackout" in the title, banner-only actions are arguably off topic. I'm not sure if there is a titling style guide but I highly suspect that if there is, it would discourage the use of acronyms when a more straightforward title can be used. Also, not using an acronym avoids a SOPA vs PIPA vs both debate; the fact is that SOPA is basically dead right now, while PIPA is moving ahead on schedule, such that while SOPA is the instigator, PIPA is more prominent now.--Brian Dell (talk) 19:35, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I think that two articles are appropriate: the first being 2012 SOPA, PIPA protest blackouts, relating to the coordinate protest effort and being the main article, with a small section on Wikipedia participation; the second being 2012 Wikipedia blackout, relating to Wikipedia's specific role and the internal community process leading to participation as a more detailed article.  Jim Reed (Talk)  14:54, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The internal workings of how the blackout came to be hasn't been covered (as best I know), so a separate main space article to highlight that seems inappropriate. Certainly there's a meta-page regarding that for Wikipedia. But in the larger picture of things, it's all part of the same effort. Maybe that will change after the event has occurred and there's clearly "here's what WP did" and "here's what the rest of the Internet did" dichotomy to it, suggesting two articles. Right now, it's clearly one single topic headlined by WP's participation. --MASEM (t) 15:02, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Good point. I wasn't planning to act on this until after the blackout because of several reasons, this being one: any action at this time is premature.  Jim Reed (Talk)  20:04, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

A merge into an article about the global blackout makes sense. If a separate Wikipedia-specific article remains, it should be clarified as 'English Wikipedia', to match the article on the Italian Wikipedia protest. 66.31.200.47 (talk) 17:14, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Google's just announced they'll be modifying their page tomorrow to coordinate with the other sites. I strongly suggest renaming this now since it's no longer just going to be WP in the spotlight. (we can still have a big WP section). --MASEM (t) 18:55, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Agree, speed is good in this case. The faster we do the renaming, the quicker we will have a good article on the whole event when people go and look for it. Belorn (talk) 20:10, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Well, unless the pending AFD is speedily-closed, moving this page at this time probably won't happen. But I do think that as soon as possible after the blackout, that we can speedily close and enact on both the AFD and this move as to tie in with what is likely to be an WP:ITN blurb. --MASEM (t) 20:14, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

re blackout, Seems like it'd be more appropriate for this article to be about the protest in general rather than Wikipedia's specific contribution to the protest. That way we could get a list of other major pages (Reddit, Google, Facebook) who will be participating in the blackout and include press responses to that. 173.166.109.49 (talk) 14:05, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I'll wait for now and after the blackout ends, I'll summarize the basic options and create a structure for building a Support/Oppose consensus. I don't expect this to be as controversial as the decision to blackout itself but I'm sure that we're not the only ones with constructive input.  Jim Reed (Talk)  20:06, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Automatic Translation: The English Wikipedia outage is significant enough to have its own article. strike since Wikipedia is more relevant to people than any other strike that can do other internet sites. Greetings. --186.63.10.223 (talk) 21:31, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It's now speedy-kept. I support the move for better coverage of protests from other parties. -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 01:27, 18 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

What time is the blackout meant to be? It is already 18th in Australia, and I can see all of wikipedia clear as day 140.168.79.1 (talk) 03:21, 18 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

05:00 (UTC)  Jim Reed (Talk)  03:27, 18 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose move - I realy dont think that 2012 SOPA and PIPA blackout will be the common name for this event. "Wikipedia blackout" is thus far is the name "news header" seem to used. That said this article (thus its title) name could easily be an overview article and we may need 2012 English Wikipedia blackout to cover the event in just English Wikipedia vs 2011 Italian Wikipedia blackout etc.Moxy (talk) 03:31, 18 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

And now that we're back...I think it's very clear this article needs to be moved off being Wikipedia specific and instead focus on the overall blackout, since it was the combined efforts of all sites involved that led to 6 Congresspersons flipping their stances, plus countless media coverage. We *still* need a Wikipedia-specific section, since there was definitely some commentary on WP's specific blackout, but it should be as part of the larger coverage. --MASEM (t) 05:04, 19 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note from the article's creator: I would support a move to a title that expands this article's scope, such as the title proposed. I have no opinion on the precise name. —WFC— 05:10, 19 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I still think that the event is big enough to justify two articles, one on the global protest, and this one covering Wikipedia's protest as part of the global protest. Let's give this at least a couple of days to pan out before we make any hasty moves. Mjroots (talk) 06:00, 19 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This sentence does not source properly: "A common criticism of the bill addresses broad language like what entails "deliberate actions to avoid confirming a high probability" for a website; sites that support user-generated content, such as YouTube would likely have to be shuttered to comply with the law as written."

This is cited with the CNN/Money article (http://money.cnn.com/2012/01/17/technology/sopa_explained/) where Google public policy director Bob Boorstin is quoted as saying "YouTube would just go dark immediately. It couldn't function." But this quote is taken out of context. The CNN/Money article sources this quote to this article (http://sociable.co/web/youtube-would-just-go-dark-immediately-if-sopa-passed/) where the context shows that he wasn't actually talking about SOPA.

The article says:

Bob Boorstin warned of dire consequences if sites were required to monitor content users upload prior to publishing. Boorstin painted a dramatic picture of the web in the event that such a law were to be passed, “YouTube would just go dark immediately. It couldn’t function,” he said.

Also, the text should clarify that the sponsors of the legislation have stated that they are dropping the DNS blocking provisions. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.150.188.2 (talk) 03:45, 18 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed both; the CNNMoney sorta grouped the two thoughts together, I resplit them. --MASEM (t) 04:00, 18 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Statistics on this are phenomenal and it's current. Can we prioritize a DYK on it while people will have exceptional interest? FT2 ^{(Talk | email)} 05:19, 19 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I believe we're getting a ITN for this. --MASEM (t) 05:20, 19 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

We did, and ITNs are worth more than DYKs if you ask me. Getting a DYK is easy; Getting an ITN means having/creating the right article at the right time. Mjroots (talk) 05:58, 19 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]