View source for Talk:Pope Francis

You do not have permission to edit this page, for the following reasons:

You currently can not change pages on Wikipedia.

The ability to change pages has been removed from this account, IP address or IP address range by ‪Operator873‬. This block affects 206.189.0.0/16. The following reason(s) were given for this block:

The IP address that you are currently using has been blocked because it is believed to be a web host provider or colocation provider. To prevent abuse, web hosts and colocation providers may be blocked from changing Wikipedia.

You will not be able to change Wikipedia using a web host or colocation provider.

Since the web host acts like a proxy, because it hides your IP address, it has been blocked. To stop abuse, these IPs may be blocked from changing Wikipedia.

If you do not believe you are using a web host and think this block is unfair, you can ask to be unblocked by adding {{Unblock|your reason here}} to your user talk page. If you cannot do this or the reason is private please send an e-mail to simple-admins-l@lists.wikimedia.org and an administrator will look at your reason and reply. You may want to read our guide to unblock requests before asking to be unblocked.

DigitalOcean ASN 14061

Your IP address is 206.189.44.186. This block has been set to finish on: 07:01, 25 March 2027.

You are not blocked from reading pages, only from changing or creating them.
If you have just clicked a red link, you were blocked from creating a new page as no article on that topic is there yet.

If you think you were not blocked fairly, you can ask an administrator to look at your block and decide whether it should be removed. If you are logged in and using an account with a registered e-mail address, you can e-mail an active administrator. If you are logged in with an account but you do not have a registered e-mail address, then please go to your settings to set one.

If you think the block is unfair, you can add {{unblock|reason goes here}} to the bottom of your talk page, replacing reason goes here with why you think your block is not fair, or send an e-mail to simple-admins-l@lists.wikimedia.org and an administrator will look at your reason and reply. You may want to read our guide to unblock requests before requesting to be unblocked.

Please be aware that abuse of {{unblock}}, using the unblock template many times even when it is denied, personal attacks, or rudeness, will often lead to you being blocked from changing your talk page to stop further misuse of the unblock template.

Innocent?

Sometimes large ranges are blocked from changing Wikipedia for very bad cases of vandalism. This means that a lot of people may not be able to change pages.

If you are blocked and want to change pages you may send an email to simple-admins-l@lists.wikimedia.org and an administrator will look at your reason and reply.

Also, if you have a dynamic IP address, some dynamic IP addresses may already be blocked when they are assigned to you.

We are sorry for any problems this may cause.

You currently can not change pages on Wikipedia.

The ability to change pages on all Wikimedia wikis has been removed from this account, IP address or IP address range by ‪EPIC‬. The following reason(s) were given for this block:

Open proxy/Webhost: See the help page if you are affected

Your IP address is 206.189.44.186. This block began on 08:48, 2 July 2024 and has been set to finish on: 08:48, 2 July 2025.

If you think you were not blocked fairly, you may make unblock requests or file appeals at meta:Steward requests/Global.

You can view and copy the source of this page.

{{talkheader}}
{{blp}}
{{dyktalk|24 August|2013}}
{{dyktalk|22 July|2020|entry=... that '''[[Pope Francis]]''' ''([[:File:Pope Francis early 2020.jpg|pictured]])'' released a [[progressive rock]] album in 2015 titled ''[[Wake Up! (Pope Francis album)|Wake Up!]]''?}}
{{Annual readership}}

== Ordinal number ==
<small>{{quote box|style=margin-left: 4em|quote='''[[List of popes]]'''<br>
* 251 [[Pope Pius VI]] (1775-99)
* 252 [[Pope Pius VII]] (1800-23)
* 253 [[Pope Leo XII]] (1823-29)
* 254 [[Pope Pius VIII]] (1829-30)
* 255 [[Pope Gregory XVI]] (1831-46)
* 256 [[Pope Pius IX]] (1846-78)
* 257 [[Pope Leo XIII]] (1878-1903)
* 258 [[Pope Pius X]] (1903-14)
* 259 [[Pope Benedict XV]] (1914-22) 
* 260 [[Pope Pius XI]] (1922-39)
* 261 [[Pope Pius XII]] (1939-58)
* 262 [[Pope John XXIII]] (1958-63)
* 263 [[Pope Paul VI]] (1963-78)
* 264 [[Pope John Paul I]] (1978)
* 265 [[Pope John Paul II]] (1978-2005)
* 266 [[Pope Benedict XVI]] (2005-2013)
* '''267''' [[Pope Francis]] (2013—)
|}}</small>
The Vatican News Agency says that he's the 265th, while Reuters says he's the 266th. Which one should we go with? -[[User:Mh7kJ|Mh7kJ]] ([[User talk:Mh7kJ|talk]]) 20:44, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
:read the press release: 265th successor... -> 266th. --[[User:Eptalon|Eptalon]] ([[User talk:Eptalon|talk]]) 20:59, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
::Ah, so it is, I'm an idiot. Thanks. -[[User:Mh7kJ|Mh7kJ]] ([[User talk:Mh7kJ|talk]]) 20:59, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
::: <s>Except for Benedict XVI and Francis,</s> The first paragraphs of all our articles about the popes follow the ''Catholic Encyclopedia'' list [http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12272b.htm  here] -- compare [http://www.catholic-hierarchy.org/bishop/spope0.html Popes in sequence] at [http://www.catholic-hierarchy.org/  Catholic Hierarchy], which is cited in each article.<p>An ordinal number problem develops in 752 when [[Pope Stephen II]] died after election but before being consecrated.  According to ''Catholic Encyclopedia'', the way this is handled in ENWP may not be best -- see 
:::* [[:en:Pope Stephen I]] (died 257), Bishop of Rome from 254–257
:::* <s>'''[[:en:Pope-elect Stephen]]'''</s> (died 772) → [http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14288b.htm   Pope Stephen II]?
:::* <s>[[:en:Pope Stephen II]]</s> (720–772), pope from 768–772 → [http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14288c.htm  Pope Stephen (II) III]?
:::* <s>[[:en:Pope Stephen III]]</s> (720–772), pope from 768–772 → [[Pope Stephen (III) IV]]?
:::* <s>[[:en:Pope Stephen IV]]</s> (died 817), pope from 816–817 → [[Pope Stephen (IV) V]]?
:::* <s>[[:en:Pope Stephen V]]</s> (died 891), pope from 885–891 → [[Pope Stephen (V) VI]]?
:::* <s>[[:en:Pope Stephen VI]]</s> (died 897), pope from 896–897 → [[Pope Stephen (VI) VII]]?
:::* <s>[[:en:Pope Stephen VII]]</s> (died 931), pope from 929–931 → [[Pope Stephen (VII) VIII]]?
:::* <s>[[:en:Pope Stephen VIII]]</s> (died 942), German, pope from 939–942 → [[Pope Stephen (VIII) IX]]?
:::* <s>[[:en:Pope Stephen IX]]</s> (c. 1020–1058), pope from 1057–1058 → [[Pope Stephen (IX) X]]?

:::After the first Stephen died in 752, the next pope took the same name. This pope is known as either Stephen II or Stephen III.  In other words, according to ''Catholic Encyclopedia''
:::* There have been '''267''' men who were ''elected'' pope
:::* Until March 19, there will have been '''264''' men who have been ''consecrated'' as pope.  This is because [[Pope Urban VII|Urban VII]] (September 15–27, 1590) died before his consecration.

:::Does this explanation help clarify what needs to be in the 1st paragraph of this article? In my opinion, the note in 1st paragraph of [[:en:Pope Benedict XVI]] is not helpful, not good enough in explaining and resolving the ordinal numbering problem.<p>This issue is not simple; but there we have it. --[[User:Jinki|Jinki]] ([[User talk:Jinki|talk]]) 15:37, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

::::FYI -- [http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q450675 Wikidata:Pope Francis] mentions the '''266th''' pope.  A quick Google search does not make this issue clearer.  The search results are inconsistent with what is published in the ''Catholic Encyclopedia''
::::* [https://www.google.com/search?q=266th&aq=f&oq=266th&aqs=chrome.0.57j0l3j62l2.2218&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=%22266th+pope%22&oq=%22266th+pope%22&gs_l=serp.3..0l2j0i30.0.0.2.3712.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0.les%3B..0.0...1c..6.psy-ab.3phRGIMibeA&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&fp=1c557d58f0d6b003&biw=1024&bih=677 "266th pope" = 380,000 hits]
::::* [https://www.google.com/search?q=266th&aq=f&oq=266th&aqs=chrome.0.57j0l3j62l2.2218&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#q=%22267th+pope%22&hl=en&ei=i3NDUeHDBcXh4AOdv4DoBw&start=20&sa=N&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&fp=1c557d58f0d6b003&biw=1024&bih=677  "267th pope" = 3,480 hits] 
::::What should be done?  How does this effect the ordinal numbers in other articles about popes? --[[User:Jinki|Jinki]] ([[User talk:Jinki|talk]]) 19:25, 15 March 2013 (UTC)

==Improvement==
The following facts still need backup:
*The Jesuits say he holds a master in chemistry, presumably from the Univ. of Buenos Aires, see http://www.jesuit.org/2013/03/13/jesuit-argentine-cardinal-jesuit-bergoglio-elected-pope-takes-name-francis-i/ (listed as ref "SJCG" in the article); The official bio of the vatican speaks about him having been edudcated as "chemical technician" (before his studies of Philosophy, and Theology), see http://www.news.va/en/news/biography-who-is-jorge-mario-bergoglio
*There is talk that he completed a PhD/Doctorate in Germany; but German Wikipedia is discussing about not being able to find it. Given that he was teaching at a university, him holding a PhD is rather likely. Needs more research.

*There has been talk about him having a bad relationship with the current president of Argentina (Fernández de Kirchner); and about him having had an ambivalent role in the time of military rule in Argentina. Needs more research. 
Just thoughts, if any of you run out of ideas in what direction to extend the article.--[[User:Eptalon|Eptalon]] ([[User talk:Eptalon|talk]]) 10:49, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

:Follow-up ... --[[User:Jinki|Jinki]] ([[User talk:Jinki|talk]]) 15:23, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
:#<u>Re: Pope Francis' doctorate</u>, see <:ref>Hans, Barbara. [http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/profile-of-new-pope-francis-a-888809.html  "The Surprise Pope: Humble and Ascetic with a Murky Past,"] ''SpiegelOnline'' (Germanhy).  13 March 2013; excerpt, [http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/profile-of-new-pope-francis-a-888809.html  "Sankt Georgen Graduate School of Philosophy and Theology, which is located in Frankfurt"]; retrieved 2013-3-17.</ref><:ref>{{cite web
  | last = 
  | first = 
  | authorlink = 
  | coauthors = 
  | title = News: Pope Francis
  | work = 
  | publisher = ''Philosophisch-Theologische Hochschule Sankt Georgen Frankfurt am Main''
  | date = 
  | url = http://www.sankt-georgen.de/
  | doi = 
  | accessdate = 2013-03-17}}</ref><s><:ref>Johnson, M. Alex. [http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/03/13/17300861-pope-francis-breaks-another-barrier-as-first-jesuit-pontiff?lite "Pope Francis breaks another barrier as first Jesuit pontiff,"] NBCNews. 13 March 2013; excerpt, [http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/03/13/17300861-pope-francis-breaks-another-barrier-as-first-jesuit-pontiff?lite "Bergoglio earned a doctorate in theology in Freiburg, Germany. He returned to Argentina and was a theology instructor at and later rector of the Philosophical and Theological Faculty of San Miguel in Buenos Aires"]; retrieved 2013-2-17</ref></s>
:#<u>Re: Cardinal Bergoglio's relations with Pres. Kirchner</u>, see <:ref>Johnson, M. Alex. [http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/03/13/17300861-pope-francis-breaks-another-barrier-as-first-jesuit-pontiff?lite  "Pope Francis breaks another barrier as first Jesuit pontiff,"] NBCNews. 13 March 2013; excerpt, [http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/03/13/17300861-pope-francis-breaks-another-barrier-as-first-jesuit-pontiff?lite "The new pope has been a vocal opponent of abortion and especially of same-sex marriage .... That position drew a rebuke from Argentine President Cristina Fernandez, who called Bergoglio a relic of 'medieval times and the Inquisition'"]; retrieved 2013-2-17</ref>
:#<u>Re: Cardinal Bergoglio in the "Dirty War"</u>, see <:ref>Vincent, Isabel and Melissa Klean. [http://www.nypost.com/p/news/international/when_the_pope_saw_no_evil_ILw4MUa1Bs4VMnil0Z29KN  "Victims of Argentina's 'Dirty War' of the late 1970s blast Pope's ‘deadly’ silence,"]  ''New York Post.'' March 17, 2013; [http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/03/13/17299920-meet-the-new-pope-francis-is-humble-leader-who-takes-the-bus-to-work?lite  "Meet the new pope: Francis is humble leader who takes the bus to work,"] NBCNews. 17 March 2013; excerpt, [http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/03/13/17299920-meet-the-new-pope-francis-is-humble-leader-who-takes-the-bus-to-work?lite  "Argentina was ruled in the late 1970s by a brutal military dictatorship .... Church leaders backed the dictatorship publicly, and Bergoglio discouraged priests from political activism.  Two of his Jesuit priests who followed the liberation theology movement were kidnapped from the slums by the military regime in 1976. Bergoglio personally appealed to the dictator, Jorge Videla, and had them freed. One of the priests later accused Bergoglio of effectively handing them over to the death squads in the first place"]; retrieved 2013-3-17.</ref>

== Expand Article ==

Can someone expand this article some so it is more updated and longer as the English Wikipedia article of Pope Francis [[:en:Pope Francis|Pope Francis]] as alot of good information on him but most of that information isn't in here. Which it could easily be after it is finished simplifying. --[[User:Clarkcj12|Clarkcj12]] ([[User talk:Clarkcj12|talk]]) 15:24, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
:I moved over (and hopefully simplified) two sections about his "teachings"/"views". They probably need more simplification, help appreciated. --[[User:Eptalon|Eptalon]] ([[User talk:Eptalon|talk]]) 13:03, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

Templates used on this page:

Pope Francis (change)
Template:Annual readership (change)
Template:Blp (change)
Template:Check talk (change)
Template:Cite web (view source) (protected)
Template:DYK talk (change)
Template:Dyktalk (change)
Template:Pagetype (view source) (semi-protected)
Template:Plain link (change)
Template:Plainlink (change)
Template:Quote box (change)
Template:Talk header (view source) (protected)
Template:Talk other (view source) (protected)
Template:Talkheader (change)
Template:Talkspace detect (change)
Template:Tmbox (view source) (semi-protected)
Module:Arguments (view source) (protected)
Module:Citation/CS1 (view source) (protected)
Module:Citation/CS1/COinS (view source) (protected)
Module:Citation/CS1/Configuration (view source) (protected)
Module:Citation/CS1/Date validation (view source) (protected)
Module:Citation/CS1/Identifiers (view source) (protected)
Module:Citation/CS1/Utilities (view source) (protected)
Module:Citation/CS1/Whitelist (view source) (protected)
Module:Citation/CS1/styles.css (view source) (protected)
Module:Disambiguation (view source) (protected)
Module:Disambiguation/templates (view source) (protected)
Module:Message box (view source) (protected)
Module:Message box/configuration (view source) (protected)
Module:Message box/tmbox.css (view source) (protected)
Module:Pagetype (view source) (protected)
Module:Pagetype/config (view source) (protected)
Module:Redirect (change)
Module:Yesno (view source) (protected)

Return to Talk:Pope Francis

Retrieved from "https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Pope_Francis"