Grants talk:Conference/Commons Photographers User Group/Commons Conference 2020

• Find additional volunteers for the organizing team (Status: Ralf is working on this)
• Find an organization that would take on fiscal sponsorship (Status: seems like WMAT will help with this)
• Run a community engagement survey among the members of the user group
• Fill out the missing items in the grant application

Comment Hi all, I wanna help in the organization so please don't hesitate to contact me ! Sami Mlouhi (talk) 15:50, 15 February 2018 (UTC)Reply

Comment Ready to help in the organization if needed Hamed Gamaoun (talk) 21:51, 15 February 2018 (UTC)Reply

Hey Satdeep, don't you need more volunteers? Best, --Frank Schulenburg (talk) 02:54, 17 February 2018 (UTC)Reply

Hi Frank Schulenburg: Yes, I will need more volunteers and I think we can get help from the Wikimedians of Iceland User Group to get some local volunteers. --Satdeep Gill (talk) 03:39, 19 February 2018 (UTC)Reply

Comment Hello! I'm willing to help, if there's further need for volunteers; I'm especially interested in aspects, such as: Coordination, Programs, and Communications :)..--Jamie Tubers (talk) 17:41, 22 February 2018 (UTC)Reply

Will Wikimedians of Iceland User Group be involved in any capacity? -Another Believer (talk) 01:03, 15 February 2018 (UTC)Reply

Ralf, weißt Du da genaueres? --Frank Schulenburg (talk) 01:07, 15 February 2018 (UTC)Reply

Ich habe eine isländische Community gesucht aber nicht gefunden... --Ralf Roletschek (talk) 07:16, 15 February 2018 (UTC)Reply

I invited the three Wikipedians listed on Wikimedians of Iceland User Group. --Frank Schulenburg (talk) 14:43, 15 February 2018 (UTC)Reply

Great, thanks! -Another Believer (talk) 01:57, 17 February 2018 (UTC)Reply

I'm in contact with Svavar Kjarrval from Iceland who told me via email that he'd be interested in joining the event. --Frank Schulenburg (talk) 00:49, 3 March 2018 (UTC)Reply

Hey all, I think we're on a good path to get this grant request finalized until the deadline on March 4th (in two days). I feel like I've done my share of work and now it's up to you all: some sections still need to be filled out and the budget needs to be re-adjusted (the Google document and this page aren't in sync). I've been personally super busy at work over the past couple of weeks/months and it looks like that's not going to change soon. So, we really need everybody else to step up in order to get us through the last mile (as I won't be able to work on this anymore). Thanks and all the best, --Frank Schulenburg (talk) 01:00, 3 March 2018 (UTC) Reply

$2344 per person is a lot of money. Seems to be a lot more money per person than other international events. Why did you pick this location? Anywhere less remote would have made it more feasible for more volunteers to attend without the need for a scholarship. This just looks like a subsidised holiday. Also, if this event happens, are the photos going to be released under a real free license or more photos that are nearly impossible to re-use like this one? Multichill (talk) 21:27, 4 March 2018 (UTC)Reply

I have a couple of concerns about this proposal. First, I'm not sure there is actually the appetite for a 30-person event. There have been 14 endorsements and 11 responses to the survey (probably with some overlap), from a total Usergroup membership of 76. I would expect fewer people to actually show up to an in-person event involving longhaul travel - even though the plan is to offer the event at 10% of cost price (or less for those in developing countries). Second, I agree with Multichill that the location is a bit odd - I suspect you could get just as much attendance at far lower cost if the event was in Europe somewhere (and there are plenty of places in Europe that have good photographic material). While I applaud the goals of the event, is this really a good way to meet them? Thanks, Chris Keating (The Land) (talk) 14:02, 5 March 2018 (UTC)Reply

Just to note that The page on Commons has many more names "interested" in going, than the endorsements here. I think this conference is lacking some advertising though. -- Colin (talk) 12:04, 7 March 2018 (UTC)Reply

Thanks for pointing that out! Hadn't seen that page. Chris Keating (The Land) (talk) 14:04, 7 March 2018 (UTC)Reply

What dates are these estimates from? They seem low considering the conference is in August. Looking through various flight prices from the various cities listed the costs for budget flights seem to be between 20% - 40% higher in some cases. I appreciate that costing travel is difficult, but this does seem to be an optimistic estimate.

Which does bring us to the question of location where I have to echo the concerns of those above. I understand the logic of the location and its appeal, but does Iceland's equidistance between N.America and Western Europe actually add up to any net saving in a travel budget that is meant to be global? Because even in summer domestic flights within Europe can generally cost >$100 (and I'm certain that N.America may have a similar dynamic) which would make it more accessible to more local non-scholarship community members and also frees up scholarship funds for travel from outside Europe. Battleofalma (talk) 14:43, 5 March 2018 (UTC)Reply

The principal justification for this event is to redress the problem that, as it says in the very first sentence of the grant application, "Photographers on Commons have been a long neglected subgroup within the Wikimedia movement".

Obviously every part of the community would like to have more resources and attention focused on it - and fair enough too - but that is different from actively being neglected. Given that there are many photography competitions (not the least of which is WLM), 'technology-pools' in Chapters which have borrowable camera equipment, software development specifically related to Commons (notably the current 'structured data on Commons' project), what instances of neglect are you specifically referring to? Wittylama (talk) 15:45, 5 March 2018 (UTC)Reply

I was about to post a comment which overlaps greatly with Liam’s.

The very first sentence of this grant application is:

“Photographers on Commons have been a long neglected subgroup within the Wikimedia movement.”

I am very confused by this unsubstantiated statement. I have been trying to make sense of it by considering which actors might “neglect” this group but have found quite the opposite:

• WMF software development: Wikimedia Commons as a whole hardly gets the end of the stick there (while one can always argue this may not be enough, go ask a Wikisource or a Wiktionary editor how much 'dedicated' development they get) − in no special order, come to mind UploadWizard, VipsScaler, Structured Data, TIFF support, 3D models, thumbnailing, max size uploads… As a central Commons stakeholder, photographers benefit from many of these improvements.
• WMF communications: Photographers and their amazing work have been put in the spotlight quite often on the WMF blog (via Pictures of the Day and community profiles)
• Affiliates support: Many affiliates have some kind of photographer-support scheme. Browsing through these overviews and categories (both of which are partial), it appears that lending high-end equipment, obtaining media accreditations, and sponsoring photo expeditions are very widespread and typical activities, specifically aimed at Commons photographers. To which may be added initiatives like Wiki Loves [Monuments|Earth|Science].
• Volunteer software development: several pieces of software highly-geared towards Commons photographers have been developed (come to mind desktop applications like Commonist or VicuñaUploader, image software extensions like LrMediaWiki and KIPI uploader, or the Commons mobile-app).

Given the above examples I fail to see in what way Commons photographers should be considered “a long neglected subgroup within the Wikimedia movement”. I do realise it may sound unfair to pick apart one single sentence, but it feels like this sentiment somehow underpins the whole application.

Jean-Fred (talk) 15:54, 5 March 2018 (UTC)Reply

I removed the sentence as it seems to be controversial. I'm at work now and can't leave a longer message here, but I'll follow up with you later this week. Thanks, --Frank Schulenburg (talk) 19:01, 5 March 2018 (UTC)Reply

Thanks. I'd also like to know what "their first official meeting" means. As far as I know, significant numbers of Wikimedia Commons photographers have met and discussed via dedicated meetups during several Wikimanias, for instance in 2013. I suspect some specific definition of "first", "official" and/or "meeting" is being used. Thanks, Nemo 10:32, 8 March 2018 (UTC)Reply

It would be the first official meeting of the User Group - and yes, photographers have been meeting in various locations on an international, regional and local level. It would be great to hear from the organisers why this kind of work necessitates a meeting on an island in the middle of nowhere, instead of using these 77,000 USD to fund regional workshops focused on the needs in a specific region. Braveheart (talk) 16:38, 10 March 2018 (UTC)Reply

Hello, I have a few concerns about this proposal.

1. There was a low response rate for your user group. For an event with this budget and number of participants, you should have input from a larger portion of your user group.
2. The budget for this event is much higher than any other conference funded through this grant program. I see a number of contributing factors: conference grant guidelines suggest limiting events to a maximum of 3 days, and travel scholarship budget should be calculated on the cost of shared rooms. We do not have funding available in this grant round to fund this event, even if the budget is adjusted to three days and shared rooms.
3. The main topics that you would like to focus on this event sound like discussions that could take place online, and do not necessarily require in-person meeting to discuss. Alternately, if the broader Commons community decided to organize a conference, it could be reasonable to make time in the program for these discussions.

The proposal has been passed on to the grant committee for review, but it is not likely that we will be able to fund this event in this round. Have you considered lower cost alternatives to this event that would support your community to discuss the issues you raised in the community input survey? Alternately, have you discussed the possibility of organizing a conference with the broader Commons community?--KHarold (WMF) (talk) 23:41, 3 April 2018 (UTC)Reply