Talk:Pokémon Legends: Arceus

how is this "core series". you guys over gamefreak that much?Roserade57 (talk) 17:43, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

Pokémon Stadium series uses "pocket monsters" too, is that also main series?Roserade57 (talk) 17:53, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

Regardless of what fans think, if GameFreak says it is a core game then it is a core game. The language used in the trailer plus the "Pocket Monsters" label all point to this being a core game. Different ≠ spin-off. --SpinyShell (talk) 18:04, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

do you have the actual quote that has them saying this though?Roserade57 (talk) 05:03, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

The official website referred to it as the newest work of the "Pocket Monsters" series, giving it the same treatment as Brilliant Diamond and Shining Pearl. As for Stadium, the official Nintendo site classified it as its own separate series. --超龍_「Chao」 07:06, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

Additionally, it's worth noting that Pokémon Stadium does not use "Pocket Monsters" in Japanese. That only appears in the English name displayed on the Japanese cover. Although how the official Japanese site classifies the games is much more important than the game's title anyway. --SnorlaxMonster 08:23, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

This is CLEARLY a spinoff. It has its own new subtitle, just like "Pokémon Stadium", "Pokémon Mystery Dungeon", "Pokémon Ranger" and so forth. It doesn't match the concept of main series game on any level and no official source calls it a new main entry, they all just say it's a "new frontier" or something like that. The strongest evidence according to this discussion is "The language used in the trailer" and the "'Pocket Monsters' label", but the former is arguable and the latter is false: this game is officially called "Pokémon LEGENDS アルセウス" using the western name in Japanese, so it's as far from the official "'Pocket Monsters' label" as you can get.--Kombatgod (talk) 12:31, 20 March 2021 (UTC)

That thing about the site classification too doesn't make sense: being a new high-budget game they'll obviously promote this more, but that doesn't necessarily make it part of the core series, and also that link to the official Pokémon Stadium site is counter-productive for the proposed argument since it straight up calls it "the definitive entry in the Pocket Monsters series" so according to the site that's the most core series ever! XD --Kombatgod (talk) 12:40, 20 March 2021 (UTC)

"no official source calls it a new main entry": The official Japanese trailer and Japanese site both explicitly state that it is part of the main series (called the Pocket Monsters series in Japan). The official site refers to the game as 『ポケットモンスター』シリーズの新たな挑戦 ("A new challenge in the 'Pocket Monsters' series'"). The game does not include "Pocket Monsters" in its Japanese title like previous entries, but the official Japanese site makes sure to emphasize that it is in-fact part of the series so that people aren't confused by the absence of "Pocket Monsters" from the game's title.

It's worth noting that this game has several key differences from previous core series games, but it is nowhere near as different as the Pokémon Mystery Dungeon or Pokémon Ranger series. Pokémon Colosseum and XD might be a better comparison (which are also not core series games, but share many mechanics with them). But of course, that's irrelevant, because we have official confirmation that they are part of the core series.

Roserade57 was wrong about Pokémon Stadium including "Pocket Monsters" in its title, which I think has confused several people here. That is only used in the English title displayed on the Japanese cover; it is not actually included in the Japanese title. The linked Japanese site says that Pokémon Stadium GS (Japanese Pokémon Stadium 2) is the definitive game in the Pokémon Stadium series (ポケスタシリーズ PokéSta series)—Google Translate gets this wrong, but that's why you always need to be very careful how you use it. --SnorlaxMonster 15:31, 20 March 2021 (UTC)

Being as no one has made a particularly convincing argument yet, why don't we be reasonable about it and compromise? (I realize I'm probably the last person to make a convincing point about reasonable solutions, but hear me out.) I propose we leave the "core series" designation on the page with a [citation needed] notice, and leave the actual determination to when the game comes out and we can judge it on its own merits instead of its advertisement. If Legends has connectivity with the existing core series (Pokémon Bank, or battle/trade capability with BDSP/SwSh), it's at least as much a core series game as Let's Go. Giratina's Embodiment - Please don't hurt us... 18:33, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

SnorlaxMonster has already said it above: "The official Japanese trailer and Japanese site both explicitly state that it is part of the main series". We don't need to decide for ourselves-- we've already been given the answer by word of god. --celadonk (talk) 20:58, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

But the point made is self-contradictory. "A new challenge in the Pocket Monsters series" and "the definitive entry in the Pocket Monsters series" are both associated statements towards games that do not include "Pocket Monsters" in their title. What's wrong with compromising until we have something a little more substantial, like the game itself, or at least a developer interview? - unsigned comment from Giratina's Embodiment (talk • contribs) 00:35, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

There is no contradiction. That was a mistranslation. The one for definitive entry refers to Pokémon Stadium series, not the Pocket Monsters series.

As I've mentioned, it's been outright stated that it's the "newest work of the 'Pocket Monsters' series" (『ポケットモンスター』シリーズ最新作). --超龍_「Chao」 01:08, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

So you guys are going to operate on assumptions based on the announcement released a year in advance, without any attempt at flexibility? And compromising to actually regard the game on its own merits rather than what is said about it is 100% off the table? Giratina's Embodiment - Please don't hurt us... 01:21, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

It's not an assumption when it's already stated in the official website. Core series is defined by how official sources refer to the game. It would be speculative to say otherwise. Besides, the page will still be updated accordingly as more information becomes available. --超龍_「Chao」 01:51, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

Official refusal of compromise acknowledged. You've already driven the bus off a cliff; if you're this determined to set it on fire before it lands, don't say nobody tried to stop you.

On a related note, this wiki needs a more convenient means to respond to sections in a talk page above the latest one. I keep going for the "add a comment" button out of muscle memory. Is there any way to expand the "[edit this page] [+]" to the individual sections? Giratina's Embodiment - Please don't hurt us... 02:11, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

I don't really see room for "compromise" here personally. There has been information released about the games, and so it goes in the article. It's not exactly up to us to decide whether their classification of their own games is valid.

If for whatever reason the Pokemon Company changes their mind and decides that Legends: Arceus is not a core series game between now and release, we can easily just edit the article to reflect that. Until then, all we can do is go off of what they've said. --celadonk (talk) 02:35, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

If I speculated it, Pokémon Legends: Arceus is the prequel to Pokémon Diamond Version and Pokémon Pearl Version as well their remake and those two main characters are the ancestors of Lucas and Dawn. --Samueljoo (talk) 04:49, 28 February 2021 (UTC)

Hate to break it to you, Samueljoo, but speculation is verboten on this wiki and I hope I didn't catch you in the middle of trying to add that to any mainspace pages. Giratina's Embodiment - Please don't hurt us... 14:32, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

So, just as a curiosity, does anyone know of aught else that has the title "Pokémon Legends"? Because the presence of a subtitle... raises implications. And I'd like to make sure that's not a disambiguation on the part of the Pokémon Company before I get my hopes up. Giratina's Embodiment - Please don't hurt us... 10:51, 7 March 2021 (UTC)

this is the first title in surely a series of LetsPlayNintendoITA (talk) 14:13, 7 March 2021 (UTC)

I don't know so much about 'surely', but thank you for confirming that there's no existing items under the name "Pokémon Legends". - unsigned comment from Giratina's Embodiment (talk • contribs)

Can somebody explain why is this considered a core series game despite not matching the definition on pretty much any level? It features new gameplay and a completely new type of setting, and also the title "Legends" indeed seems to imply a potential new subseries, with future games set in different regions with different legendary and stuff, in case this is a success. I couldn't even find a single official source calling it a main entry, they all say it's a "new frontier" for the series or that it honors Pokémon "core gameplay" while adding action-RPG elements or something like that, which pretty much explains why it's NOT a core series game. Am I missing something?--Kombatgod (talk) 12:18, 20 March 2021 (UTC)

How did I miss the previous discussion? I'll answer there.--Kombatgod (talk) 12:23, 20 March 2021 (UTC)

"For the first time in a new game since Pokémon X and Y, the player character that is not selected appears in the story as an NPC."
Two problems with this quote. First, Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire too had player character NPC and the same goes for Brilliant Diamond and Shining Pearl. So IMO, this line should be removed, because if it isn't outright wrong, it's at least confusing. Horn (talk) 11:59, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

The Shiny charm is obtained by getting the entire dex minus the mythicals to level ten for research yet the way the shiny charm is mentioned makes it seem like you get it immediately after beating arceus which is not true so why does it not say that anywhere on the page? Chomper07 (talk) 19:17, 3 February 2022 (UTC)

The article mentions that the Shiny Charm is the reward for completing the Pokédex. Placing it after Arceus was just for convenience's sake. --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 19:52, 3 February 2022 (UTC)

Yes i am aware that it is after arceus for convenices sake but the requirement for getting the charm is different than the requirement for battleing arceus Chomper07 (talk) 20:34, 3 February 2022 (UTC)

It's completely different from the actual core series. The battles are different, the style is different, and even the attacks are different. Hell, you can't even battle other people. Why are we treating this like a core series game? ¿¡Unowninator?! (talk) 03:47, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

Read the previous discussion regarding this. It doesn't matter if the game has a different gameplay style, if Game Freak says it's core series, then it's core series.--ForceFire 05:27, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

Hi, I just added trivia to the main page regarding requirements to encounter a certain Pokémon in the postgame. However, I don't know how to add a spoiler tag, let alone to the middle of a section. I could use some pointers on adding spoiler tags. Thank you.- unsigned comment from IMDCombee (talk • contribs)

The locations (and requirements, if any) of Pokémon are added in the locations template on the individual articles, which a majority are already added.--ForceFire 15:46, 6 February 2022 (UTC)

It's a few months later now, and a lot of locations are still not added to the Pokémon pages.(I looked at Spheal, Gible & Budew, they all miss the locations) Maybe we must add the rest? CrazyPikmin (talk) 07:36, 4 May 2022 (UTC)

I see this trivia item being added and deleted back and forth:

• This is the only core series game:
  • In which the original form of a regional form Pokémon is unobtainable, even by transfer.
    • The only Pokémon with a Hisuian Form whose original form is available is Sneasel.

So I suggest we settle this.

I vote for it to stay. Yes, we have two exceptions (Sneasel and Vulpix) but they don't cancel the fact that this is the first game where we have at least one species which is only available in its regional form while the original form is not even present in the game's code. Qwilfish, Growlithe, Voltorb, Zorua, Avalugg, the starters' final evolutions...

SaniOKh (talk) 08:37, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

It's unimportant information. When you you make an exception for three Pokémon and have to list them out individually, then it starts to seem so much like not an exception and makes it way more wordier than it needs to be, "this thing is only true except for when you include this, that and this." If that's the situation, it shouldn't need a list and seems like it's not true. It contradicts with itself and shows that there is more than there actually are. It's not just two Pokémon either, it's three, as you have to account for Ninetales as well, this is an important distinction because some Pokémon evolve into something that doesn't have a Regional Variant, including Sneasel, which evolves into Sneasler, not Weavile. The second bit straight up ignores Vulpuix and Ninetales entirely as if Sneasel was the only Pokémon that the information applies to. Also, the transfer bit was added after the first time the information was removed, it's irrelevant and I'm not sure why that was added, as all Pokémon in the game can be obtained with or without transfer or even trade.

If the information must be added, it needs to be reworded so that it says, "This the only core series game in which some Pokémon are only available within their Regional (or Hisuian) Form." this information makes no reference to the fact some Pokémon can still have both their forms available, and doesn't stretch it with a list that conflicts with the existing information. TrainerSplash (talk) 06:44, 30 January 2023 (UTC)

Why is there no list of hostile Pokémon in Legends Arceus? CuteShaymin (talk) 06:24, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

On every page that references the opening of PLA (this page, Akari, Rei, Time travel, etc.) its stated that the main character is sent into the past by Arceus to Hisui. Is that true though? Looking at Arceus's dialogue it seems more like the protagonist is brought from another world, possibly Earth.

For example:

• "<player>... Soon thou shalt find thyself in a world strange to thee... A world inhabited by wondrous creatures that humans call “Pokémon.” <player>... Seek out all Pokémon, and thou shalt find me once more."
• "To see such truths proven anew, beyond the bounds of time and space, bringeth joy to me. I am glad that I chose thee to call to this world."

These lines really seem like the protagonist is coming from a world without Pokemon, rather than being a time traveler within the same world. I think the confusion stems from people thinking the main character fell through a space-time distortion the same as Ingo, but we can see that the circumstances are different by the fact that the main character doesn't lose their memory, unlike Ingo.

And yes, I'm aware of Bulbapedia's unreleased materials policy, but lets just say the Isekai theory is not unsupported by such materials. Still, even just going by official media it really seems like the protagonist is intended to be a slider rather than a time traveler. --Jump Drive (talk) 20:04, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

Having looked more into it there are two pieces of evidence against the Isekai theory. One is that the protagonist arrives wearing clothing featuring designs from Alola or Kalos, the other is from Masters EX, where Rei has the description: "His memories of the past are hazy, possibly because he arrived in Hisui by traveling through time and space."

I don't think these are particularly impactful pieces of evidence relative to Arceus's dialogue; clothing designs from a Doylist perspective is just reusing existing assets, from a Watsonian perspective is similar designs or even Pokemon merch existing on the PLA Protagonist's original world; and Masters EX is generally considered a separate continuity on Bulbapedia.

Still those seem like good counter-evidence... Except! In the Masters EX event Together in an Unknown Land Rei and Akari fall through a Space-Time Distortion into Pasio. Rei states that he "remembers this feeling" and that "I don't remember how I got here this time either", saying that "It's weird... Even though this is the future, it feels kinda...familiar?" and "A space-time rift sent me to Hisui from somewhere else. So this has happened to me before.". Akari says "Then...maybe this is the world you originally came from, Rei!", to which Rei replies "No... My memory is faint, but this world still feels a bit different.". This can be interpreted either as being due to Masters EX being a different world that the normal Pokemon world, or due to being more similar to the modern world Rei was originally from, but Pokemon still existing making it obviously different even with lost memories. Personally, it seems much more like the latter. --Jump Drive (talk) 20:57, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

I think that time travel is involved too but i generally agree with this.--MissDelibirda (talk) 21:05, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

Also, in terms of Masters EX I think I found the most explicit one. In the event Ultra Beast Meet-and-Greet Rei says "After all, if these UBs are Pokémon from another world... I can relate to that on a personal level.". So yeah, in Masters canon at least, seems pretty certain that Rei is from another world. EDIT: Wait nevermind, I'm a moron. "I think some part of me still remembers being a Trainer in the world I'm originally from— the one I lived in before Hisui.", from the Together in an Unknown Land event. Somehow I missed that. --Jump Drive (talk) 21:07, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

Ok resetting the indent, this is the full list of evidence for and against the Isekai theory which I've found.

Essentially there are 3 possibilities for the PLA protagonists origin:

1. The Pokemon World in the future
2. Another World, which can be:
   1. Our Earth where Pokemon exists only as a media franchise
   2. An unrelated alternate world where Pokemon exist but other details are different

Firstly, I was wrong, they probably did come through a space-time rift. It may have been a special kind of rift due to Arceus's influence, but a rift was involved

• Professor Laventon: "Ah, well, you know of that great hole in the sky? The one people call the space-time rift? Our new friend fell right out of it!"
• Rei (Masters): "His memories of the past are hazy, possibly because he arrived in Hisui by traveling through time and space."
• Rei (Masters): "A space-time rift sent me to Hisui from somewhere else. So this has happened to me before."

As for the evidence for and against, this is what I found:

Evidence For Another World:

• Arceus: "<player>... Soon thou shalt find thyself in a world strange to thee... A world inhabited by wondrous creatures that humans call “Pokémon.”
• Arceus: "To see such truths proven anew, beyond the bounds of time and space, bringeth joy to me. I am glad that I chose thee to call to this world."
• Akari (Masters) -> Rei (Masters): "Then...maybe this is the world you originally came from, Rei!" -> "No... My memory is faint, but this world still feels a bit different."
• Rei (Masters): "After all, if these UBs are Pokémon from another world... I can relate to that on a personal level."

Evidence Against Another World:

• Clothing: Designs from Alola and Kalos
• Rei (Masters): "In every world I've been in, people and Pokémon live together, and everyone helps me out."
• Rei (Masters): "I think some part of me still remembers being a Trainer in the world I'm originally from— the one I lived in before Hisui."
• Rei (Masters): “When I was in Hisui, I was able to help everyone with my faint memories of being a Trainer."
• Rei (Masters): "When you're somewhere that's unfamiliar, it's comforting to have something that you already know. For me, that was Pokémon. Whenever I saw Pokémon in Hisui–even here on Pasio–I instantly felt at peace."
• Rei (Masters): "Yeah, it's definitely confusing being sent to another world again...but that won't change what I'm going to do." (‘Again’ implies that Rei uses the term “another world” even when only moving through time, negating the fourth "for")

So yeah, in PLA there's 2 strong pieces of evidence for the protagonist being from another world, and 1 circumstantial piece of evidence against, while Masters is a bit all over the place.

As for whether the world of origin is Earth or a parallel Pokemon world, that's a bit more complex.

Most references in Masters to being a Trainer or the existence of Pokemon could be due to being from a Pokemon world, or could simply be referencing playing the Pokemon games. The line "In every world I've been in, people and Pokémon live together, and everyone helps me out." is the one that most heavily implies that Pokemon were real in the original world, but that could be explained by impaired memories of gaming or watching the anime being confused with real events.

A similar issue exists in PLA, where Professor Laventon asks "Ah, but do you even know what a Pokémon is?" to which the responses are "Of course I do" or "Not exactly...". Is it "Not exactly..." because their only memories of them are from fictional media? Or is it because their memory is impaired? Or do they actually come from a world where Pokemon is completely non-existent even as a media franchise and they're just posturing! At the very least, Arceus's line "Soon thou shalt find thyself in a world strange to thee... A world inhabited by wondrous creatures that humans call “Pokémon.” seems to imply that the protagonists original world doesn't have Pokemon.

Generally, I think in PLA the protagonist is intended to be from another world, likely Earth, while in Masters EX its made more ambiguous whether Rei is from another world, and there's a greater implication that if he is from another world it isn't Earth.

That's my conclusion from all this, but I'd be interested to hear what other people think, or if there's some great evidence I missed (I purposefully left out the unreleased materials this time, since that's pretty dubious) --Jump Drive (talk) 21:58, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

I think in PLA "world" is used as a shorthand for "a particular time and place" rather than necessarily indicating inter-universe travel. For example, after the player beats Electrode, Ingo says that he remembered some things about the "world" he came from, and nobody's arguing that Ingo came from an alternate universe. Under this definition, none of the evidence above is contradictory: Hisui is strange because it's a different time and place. Arceus is glad that it chose to call you to this time and place. Rei thinks that Pasio is different than the time and place he originally came from, and part of him still remembers being a Trainer in the time and place he was originally from. Ingo remembered some things about the time and place he came from. And so on, and so on. It's up to personal interpretation whether the "place" you came from is in the same universe or a different universe.

As far as wiki content is concerned, I do agree that it's slightly misleading to say just that the player traveled through time. It's stated on multiple occasions that the player came through a space-time rift (which is also mentioned to be how Adaman, Irida, Rei, and Akari got to Pasio by the way), so the most accurate description would be that the player traveled through time and space. Storm Aurora (talk) 02:09, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

Ah right this line then: "Only to say that I recalled some things after <player> did the honor of traveling with me. Things to do with a world where I believe I lived before my memories were lost."

That definetely aligns with Rei's use of "world" in Masters EX: "Yeah, it's definitely confusing being sent to another world again"

Yeah I think you're right, seems like it is intended to be time travel in PLA as well. Good to know! --Jump Drive (talk) 19:30, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

Adding a comment after some conversation on the Discord server about the phrasing of This is the first game since Pokémon X and Y to introduce cross-generational Evolutions that don't involve regional forms of previously-available Pokémon, such as Stantler evolving into Wyrdeer, Scyther into Kleavor, and Ursaring into Ursaluna." The current phrasing doesn't appear to exclude evolutions in Sun and Moon which have Pokémon from Kanto evolving into Alolan forms, such as Kantonian Pikachu evolving into Alolan Raichu.

This could be worded better, such as by saying "cross-generational Evolutions that are not regional forms and do not evolve from regional forms" or "This is the first game since Pokémon X and Y to introduce cross-generational Evolutions that don't involve regional forms of previously-available Pokémon, such as Stantler evolving into Wyrdeer, Scyther into Kleavor, and Ursaring into Ursaluna." Mercurybro (talk) 10:05, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

Oops, current trivia actually reads as "This is the first game since Pokémon X and Y to introduce cross-generational Evolutions that evolve from the original form rather than a regional form, namely Wyrdeer, Kleavor, and Ursaluna." Mercurybro (talk) 10:09, 3 January 2025 (UTC)