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== Train article ==

''Moved from '''By Train''' - Please use for information.'' -- [[User:(WT-en) Huttite|(WT-en) Huttite]] 05:24, 19 Jan 2005 (EST)

the first South American train ....


The Port Train, known in Buenso Aires as "la portena"... enjoy reading. [[User:(WT-en) Frassinetti|(WT-en) Bob Frassinetti]].

147 years ago, La Portena ( the port train) train run for the first time. It was an early
winter morning on August 30, 1857 when the first steam locomotive run in
Buenos Aires. The voyage began at the Parque Station, where nowadays there's
no longer a train station but one of Latin America's and the world's most
beautiful and important Opera houses, the Colon theatre.
The mythical locomotive was built in England, but its objective wasn't to
transport passengers in Argentina but in India, for the Crimea war in 1857.
England didn't claim for the machine, for it wasn't one of their coveted
possessions... A few months later the Argentinean society of the Iron Roads
acquired the gorgeous machine and brought it to these southern Pampas.
Nowadays it can be admired at the Colonial museum of Lujan.Near Buenos Aires.....

Train trips: an excellent option for alternative tourism ..........Argentina is a country whose communication system’s foundations have been layed down in rail systems’ blueprints. 

All through our history trains have been an indispensable factor, for production, leisure, communications and tourism. 

Firstly layed down for productive purposes, these rails have rapidly been also used to put our natural beauties in contact with those curious and adventurous travelers. And the result has been just awesome, because the possibilities of accesing some of this georgeous places are very much limmited because of the complex geography. 

Up in the northern part of our country, limmiting with Chile and Bolivia, there’s one of the worlds most beautiful places: the Quebrada de Humahuaca. Before colonial times, this area was a very important part of the Inca Empire, for it’s a one of a kind oasis in the middle of the arid puna, the Humahuaca valley is very fertile area surrounded by some of the highest mountains in South America, the Andes. Even during colonial times people in this places kept on working their lands as their forefathers did for many generations. Colonial authorities exploited other natural resources such as cole, silver and copper mines as well as sugar cane production. These two production systems still coexist to our days. The need of communications in times of the Independence brought the rail system to this area. The objective was to establish a fluent communication with Chile’s mine’s production. The result was the amazing Tren de las nubes, train of the clouds. This train was built in several stages between 1921 and 1948, by more than 3,000 workers. More than 500 km of rails open the path to an amazing journey through the clouds. La polvorilla is the last stop of the tour, running at more that 4000 mts of the sea level the train appears to ride on air as it crosses the viaduct of the same name. The journey is a lifetime experience and can be done all year long –although during winter there are some parts that are not available-. All ten couches are moved by the diesel locomotor. Comfort, a must in such an amazing experience, is also very taken care of, so that we, passengers can enjoy the ride without having to worry about anything.

There are no words to describe this experience –believe me, I see myself as a very expressive person but that journey left me speechless… However the full smile on my face and the glowing in my eyes showed my inner happiness and astonishment in front of one of the most beautiful experiences ever. 



An other incredible train ride in our country is also in the northern area, but this time in the eastern part, in the border with Brazil. The rain forest train, tren de la selva, runs all the way through the National park of Iguazú, to one of America’s greatest falls: the Iguazú Falls. The beauty of this place, one of nature’s outstanding pictures, in the middle of the rain forest, this gigantic red watered falls (the ground in this area is reddish, very brick like because of its particular chemical composition) are just a beautiful spectacle available all year round, though in summer the temperature can easily reach the 45°C, all the rest of the year this area has a very warm weather. Nonetheless, the heat, the area is very well prepared to receive visitors from all over the world, therefore when visiting Iguazú there are many outstanding accommodation options –all includded as well as spa resorts- that would make you feel very much at ease. 



Traveling south from Buenos Aires, there’s a must for all of those who want to travel through our Patagonia. Worldly known because of its cross path, short cut super economic: La trochita (short of Trocha which is Spanish for cross path). This 75 cm. cross path rail was began to construct in the early years of the 1920s, though its construction was delayed due to climate inconveniences. By 1936 it began to run through its amazing 402 km. 

This train had ups and downs regarding governmental policies, and it was closed many times. But thanks to the hard work of the authorities of the province of Chubut, the train is still alive and running, not through the original 402 km. But through 165km. Of beauty, through Esquel. Lepá and El Maitén. 

This train is not only a circulation service to witness amazing sights, but living history. The wagons in which we ride are the original 1922 ones, that are heated by antique salamanders regulated by the passengers to their preference. The whole train is an antique treasure that we have the pleasure to enjoy, even the locomotives, one of the two available is a Baldwin Locomotive Works, American, class 75 B with 431 hp of power; the German Henschel, class 75 H with 411 hp of power. There’s also a moanouver locomotive class 75 M, made by Henschel y Sohn.

An other train treasure of the south is the historic steam train that rides in the sorrounding area of the Nahuel Huapí lake in the internationally renamed sky resort, Bariloche. Very much a rolling museum, this train was manufactured in Scotland in 1912 by the North British Locomotives company in Glasgow plaque number 121, the wagons were originally made in England, in an outstanding art deco style, made out of Cedar and Mahogany. All seats are covered in red and green velvet in the 667 wagon that was made in 1914. 

There are wagons that had been specially made for the important managers of some of this British trains and their family. The wagon booked for the family number 677 was specially made for them in England in 1913 and it has three bed rooms, kithcen, bathroom and a special room for the help that travelled along. 

Tourist class wagons number 128 was made in Glousester; the pine chasis was locally manufactured in 1914 by Ferrocarriles Entre Ríos, the wagon number 671 was a sleepling wagon owned by Ferrocarril del Oeste and it was specially made for them in Birmingham in 1914. 

The Dining cars number 5560 and 546 were made by the English brand Glousester and the chasis was fully made in Ceder and Mahogany. 

This specific information shows the class and confort offerd in this trains. AS to the ride, the sights are just incredibly beautiful, there are many stops so one can enjoy the amazing views and scenes. A perfect ride that combines the perfection and style of art and antique and the beauty of nature.



The last stop in our train tour, and a must when visiting our Argentinean trains is the Tren del fin del Mundo, is the most southern rail system in the world, and one of the smaller cross paths. This the Ferrocarril Austral Fueguino was the first tourist train to be built in Latin America. This incredible amazing train runs through the same rails that the one who long ago carried prisoners to the maximum security prison in Ushuaia –now closed-. Far from the image of a prisoners train, this train is an outstanding and chick train, with all the top of the top commodities specially arranged for the passenger’s delight, specially with those rearanged big windows to enjoy the sights. As well as the two locomotives, diesel and steam, two true beauties. The station of the End of the world is located 8 km west from Ushuaia, that is the starting point of an amazing and ecological journey to the most southern train station in the world in the National Park of Tierra del fuego. The journey is beautiful, the sights, the places, nature’s treasures are exhibited in all their greatness. Just before arriving to our last stop, the curve the train takes opens up into thick woods cohiues and lengas, local millenary trees. 

There is no better ending to a wonderful and amazing trip.
I hope I've been of some help! Bob Frassinetti

== Extlinks ==

I removed this little rats' nest of extlinks from the page:

:''A wide range of accommodation possibilities are available in Buenos Aires and the rest of the country; [http://www.lacasafitzroy.com from student hostels]to homey bed and breakfasts to trendy boutique hotels in the city to luxurious palaces and modern five-star hotels, and Buenos Aires Furnished Apartments for Rent [http://buenosairesapartments.deptostemporarios.com Cheap Apartments in Buenos Aires] throughout the different [http://www.buenostours.com/2006/08/which-buenos-aires-barrio-should-i.html Buenos Aires Barrios].''

:''Bear in mind that usually the rooms are not as large as in hotels around the world (except from five-stars international hotels).''

:''There are also large cities such as [http://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Mar_del_Plata Mar del Plata] that offer everything from a top of the line [http://www.starwoodhotels.com/sheraton/property/overview/index.html?propertyID=113 Sheraton] hotel, to well valued 5 star private accommodations such as [http://www.casaprimavera.com.ar/ Casa Primavera], to very inexpensive [http://www.hostelworld.com/findabed.php/ChosenCity.Mar+del+Plata/ChosenCountry.Argentina hostels].''

:''There are also many beautiful lake-side lodges in Patagonia, and fabulous regional farms (''estancias'') outside the cities. More information can be found [http://www.reservas.net/app/hcentral01.exe?147,AR,BUE,,,,ENG here].''

:''Many vacation ''cabañas'' (cabins or weekend houses) are available for short-term rent directly from the owners in the mountains, seaside, and in rural areas. Drive around and look for signs saying ''alquiler'' ("rental"), or check the classified section of any major newspaper.''

I'm going to try to recover parts of it that are actually useful, and move other parts to the right location; the rest is here for datamining if someone is so inclined. --[[User:(WT-en) Evan|(WT-en) Evan]] 14:33, 14 December 2006 (EST)

== Pesos AR$ or what? ==
Anyone know what the standard is for writing Argentinian currency? There's about four different ways going on in these articles right now and I'd like to settle on one. [[User:(WT-en) Maj|(WT-en) Maj]] 15:42, 14 March 2008 (EDT)

According to [[Argentine  peso]], "Its ISO 4217 code is ARS, and the symbol used locally for it is $ (to avoid confusion, Argentines frequently use US$, U$, U$S, or U$A to indicate U.S. dollars)"
[[User:(WT-en) Johnthegolfer|(WT-en) Johnthegolfer]] 15:47, 13 November 2008 (EST)
:Because of the risk of confusion, I'd recommend never using just a $ symbol in Argentine articles, but rather USD or ARS preceding the amount (with no space). Alternatively, in prose (as opposed to listings) you can be more long winded and write "pesos" after the amount. --[[User:W. Frank|W.&nbsp;'''Frank''']]<sup>[[Special:EmailUser/W. Frank|<span style="color:green">email</span>]]</sup><sub>[[User talk:W. Frank|<span style="color:red">talk</span>]]</sub> 14:42, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

== Argentina or Buenos Aires article?? ==

There is a lot of information on this article that reflects Buenos Aires cultural point of views and generalize from this to the rest of the country. Please stop adding information regarding the whole country based on non-reliable buenos aires habitants point of view. Cultural information regarding Buenos Aires should go in the Buenos Aires articles. It's disgusting as an argentinean to read articles like this one.  <small>—The [[Project:Using_talk_pages#Talk_page_formatting|preceding]] comment was added by [[User:(WT-en) 200.122.74.179|(WT-en) 200.122.74.179]] ([[User talk:200.122.74.179|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/200.122.74.179|contribs]]) </small>

:The nice thing about wikis is that there's never a need to complain&mdash;just [[Project:Plunge forward|plunge forward]] and fix it yourself!  --[[User:(WT-en) Peterfitzgerald|(WT-en) Peter]] <small><sup>[[User talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 15:59, 14 April 2009 (EDT)

== Power supplies ==

The article currently says

>However, the live and neutral pins in the Australian fittings are reversed so as to prevent cheap imports into Australia. 

Can someone verify this?  It is dangerous to reverse live and neutral.  So, it is unlikely that national authorities would endorse this.  Also, given the price of electronics in Argentina and Australia the reverse imports are more likely.


Thanks

: I think the reasoning (cheap imports) is wrong, but there are a few sources [http://www.kropla.com/electric2.htm] & [http://www.accesscomms.com.au/Reference/powerplug.htm].  Which support the live and neutral pins reversed.  For a traveller, it shouldn't present too many problems, just disconnect your device from the power when not in use.  --[[User:(WT-en) Inas|(WT-en) inas]] 22:53, 19 December 2010 (EST)

== Demonstrations ==

"Popular demonstrations are very common in Buenos Aires, and are best avoided by tourists as these demonstrations sometimes grow into violent confrontations with the police or National Gendarmerie, particularly as they approach the government buildings in the city center."

Popular demonstrations rarely (almost never) turn violent, as the police has explicit orders to not suppress them, just control the area and deter demonstrators with negotiation. Actually, it's a matter in constant discussion around here, some people want a more 'active' role (to say it lightly) against them.

==Hey Big Balls==

I've struggled with this sidebar for some time. I love the person's writing style but the author has missed the mark on colloquialisms. I've included a quote from an Argentine philosopher who's essay would add a great deal more colour to the subject for those who want to investigate further. There is a great tradition of giving nicknames to people in Argentina. Negro is just a color. I've watched Blond haired blue eyed children referred to as "negro" by their loving mother, as a nickname and clearly as a term of endearment. A diplomat from Uruguay who proudly preferred the nickname Negra. Her nickname for her husband was Nacho. You might Call your tall skinny friend gordo and your fat friend flaco. I'm taller than almost everyone around me in Buenos Aires and people call me enano (midget). Argentines  are playful in this, and other regards. [[User:Ekmsid|Ekmsid]] ([[User talk:Ekmsid|talk]]) 05:51, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
:Yeah I've found similar things to hold true in Nicaragua, though the actual nicknames might differ. "Chele" certainly is a ''very'' common term for white people and/or foreigners. [[User:Hobbitschuster|Hobbitschuster]] ([[User talk:Hobbitschuster|talk]]) 13:09, 12 January 2018 (UTC)

== History ==

Hey, the Argentine economy has recovered immensely and from what I've seen they seem to be doing well now besides the eternal inflation problem - might be worth mentioning that. -[[User:139.229.6.62|139.229.6.62]] 12:58, 11 September 2011 (EDT)

==Do not talk about England or the UK at all in Argentina?==
Who wrote this section? Somebody who had a bad experience one day? I think this is a bit extreme. When people ask where are you from, I don't think it's good to lie and say you are from Ireland for example. The only places where there are problems with the UK are extremely poor and under educated areas in the slums. Personally I wouldn't visit the slums in any case. The majority of Argentinians are educated and accept that the UK exists as a country. Should Britons take offence if anyone mentions Argentina in the UK? Of course not. I think this section should be altered to recommend caution in "villas" and slums. The main gist should be as not to glorify the UK compared with Argentina. That would annoy anybody in any country if you compare your own country favourably with their own. <small>—The [[Project:Using_talk_pages#Talk_page_formatting|preceding]] comment was added by [[User:86.142.67.248|86.142.67.248]] ([[User talk:86.142.67.248|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/86.142.67.248|contribs]]) 12:42, 10 January 2012 (EST)</small>

: Makes sense - please [[Project:Plunge forward|plunge forward]]. -- [[User:(WT-en) Wrh2|(WT-en) Ryan]] &bull; ([[User talk:(WT-en) Wrh2|talk]]) &bull; 17:16, 10 January 2012 (EST)

::I've [http://en.wikivoyage.org/w/index.php?title=Argentina&diff=2524697&oldid=2524531 added an infobox] about the Anglophone influence to introduce a bit of balance and perspective. --[[User:118.93nzp|118.93nzp]] ([[User talk:118.93nzp|talk]]) 22:03, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

==San Salvador de Jujuy and Ushuaia==
I don't understand the idea in "At the national level, only 9 cities are listed". What does that mean? Of course Argentina has more than 9 cities, what can be wrong with adding them?? These two cities have to go back into the list, just like many others which are not there. --[[User:Silviac|Silviac]] ([[User talk:Silviac|talk]]) 19:47, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
: It's [[7 2|Wikivoyage's policy]] to just list the nine most important cities in the city lists of articles. Can you imagine how the articles would look like if we would have no limit on how many cities to list?
: Under Regions there are links to region articles, perhaps there is still space to list the cities there (the limit of nine also applies there). 
: You may also be interested in [[Wikivoyage:Geographical hierarchy]]. [[User:Ypsilon|ϒpsilon]] ([[User talk:Ypsilon|talk]]) 19:55, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
::Just to clarify: Region articles are limited to listing 9 cities only if they are subdivided into smaller regions. Bottom-level regions that are not subdivided into smaller regions, only "Cities" and "Other destinations" have no limit to the number of cities that can be listed in them. Does that make sense, [[User:Silviac|Silviac]]? [[User:Ikan Kekek|Ikan Kekek]] ([[User talk:Ikan Kekek|talk]]) 20:30, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
:: Thanks, that was clear. I'll add Ushuaia in the regions, as it's not there. --[[User:Silviac|Silviac]] ([[User talk:Silviac|talk]]) 18:19, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

==Reciprocity Fee Suspended==
Stumbled on a memo from Argentina's Immigration "agency" stating that as of 26 March 2016, U.S. citizens will no longer be charged the $160 per person fee before or as they enter the country.  Could someone with better sources than I confirm this and modify "Get in" for this article and the one for Buenos Aires (perhaps others) accordingly?  Regards, [[User:Hennejohn|Hennejohn]] ([[User talk:Hennejohn|talk]]) 00:01, 17 April 2016 (UTC)
:Yes I've heard the same. It's a precondition for Argentina to be admitted to the Visa Waiver Program again. [[User:Hobbitschuster|Hobbitschuster]] ([[User talk:Hobbitschuster|talk]]) 18:48, 21 April 2017 (UTC)

== Replacement banner ==

[[File:El Palmar National Park banner.jpg|right|thumb|500px|Existing]]
[[File:Argentina_Banner_1.jpg|right|thumb|500px|Option #1 : Lake of three colors]]
[[File:Argentina_Banner2.jpg|right|thumb|500px|Option #2 : Ruins of San Ignacio]]
[[File:Argentina_Banner_3.jpg|right|thumb|500px|Option #3 : Neuquen]]
[[File:Argentina_Banner_4.jpg|right|thumb|500px|Option #4 : Horse rider]]
[[File:Argentina_Banner_5.jpg|right|thumb|500px|Option #5 : Horse in front of mountains]]
[[File:Argentina_Banner_6.jpg|right|thumb|500px|Option #6 : Street musicians]]


The existing banner of some silhouetted palm trees doesn't make for a good banner because palm trees are found all around the warm parts of the world, and it shows nothing of Argentina. I put together a few alternative options of Argentina, but please add more if none are to your liking. Opinions? --[[User:Andrewssi2|Andrewssi2]] ([[User talk:Andrewssi2|talk]]) 21:58, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

:I like the lake best. The photo of Neuquen is strange because the house looks like it's leaning back at a slant. The ruins are unsharp. Unless we go with the lake, I would have to say the palms are the best photo, but I agree with you that they don't typify Argentina in particular. [[User:Ikan Kekek|Ikan Kekek]] ([[User talk:Ikan Kekek|talk]]) 22:29, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

::I agree with Ikan Kekek that #3 looks weird. I like #1 and #2. The existing one is a nice picture, but it's true that it's not specific to Argentina. My favorite is #2, the ruins. —[[User:Mr. Granger|Granger]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Mr. Granger|talk]] '''·''' [[Special:Contributions/Mr. Granger|contribs]]) 00:58, 21 April 2017 (UTC)

:::Another vote for #2. -- [[User:AndreCarrotflower|AndreCarrotflower]] ([[User talk:AndreCarrotflower|talk]]) 04:41, 21 April 2017 (UTC)

:::: Thanks, that's 2 votes for #2. Maybe just leave this open over the weekend for other comments or suggestions? --[[User:Andrewssi2|Andrewssi2]] ([[User talk:Andrewssi2|talk]]) 21:50, 21 April 2017 (UTC)

:::::Sorry to bring it neck and neck, but I have to agree with Ikan about the defects with images #2 and #3. My preference would be #1 (the lake), but if people wanted to try out the ruins on the page for a few days to see how noticeable the grainy quality is, that would be alright too. --[[User:ThunderingTyphoons!|ThunderingTyphoons!]] ([[User talk:ThunderingTyphoons!|talk]]) 09:05, 22 April 2017 (UTC)

::::::I'd actually rather just get it right for a country level article rather than the 'least worst option'. The three banners were the best I could find on commons (and I'd agree that #1 is my preference), but perhaps Flickr will yield something better. I'll take a look. [[User:Andrewssi2|Andrewssi2]] ([[User talk:Andrewssi2|talk]]) 09:49, 22 April 2017 (UTC)

:::::::Don't get me wrong; I do like the lake on its own merits as well, and it is very emblematic of Patagonia particularly. But perhaps it would be good to compare it with other images of the same quality from Flickr. --[[User:ThunderingTyphoons!|ThunderingTyphoons!]] ([[User talk:ThunderingTyphoons!|talk]]) 09:56, 22 April 2017 (UTC)

:::::::: I added a few more options. I still like the lake (#1) but let me know. [[User:Andrewssi2|Andrewssi2]] ([[User talk:Andrewssi2|talk]]) 05:44, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

:::::::::Number 1, then number 6. I don't really like any of the other options except for the current banner, but we all agree that scene doesn't typify Argentina. [[User:Ikan Kekek|Ikan Kekek]] ([[User talk:Ikan Kekek|talk]]) 05:48, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

{{outdent}}I actually find the musician one a little plain, but I like the other two you've found (#5 moreso than #4). However, none of the three has unthroned the lake. --[[User:ThunderingTyphoons!|ThunderingTyphoons!]] ([[User talk:ThunderingTyphoons!|talk]]) 11:33, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

:The new ones look great to me, especially #5. —[[User:Mr. Granger|Granger]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Mr. Granger|talk]] '''·''' [[Special:Contributions/Mr. Granger|contribs]]) 17:34, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

:: I think consensus is pointing at #1 (the lake) followed by #5 (the horse against the mountains). I actually like the musicians a lot, but think it will typify the city of Buenos Aires more. 
:: Are we OK to move to #1 ? We can propose another round of banner selection later. --[[User:Andrewssi2|Andrewssi2]] ([[User talk:Andrewssi2|talk]]) 22:25, 25 April 2017 (UTC)

::: Going once.. twice... [[User:Andrewssi2|Andrewssi2]] ([[User talk:Andrewssi2|talk]]) 21:55, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

:::: Go for it :D I've already taken a sneak preview of what they'll look like, and the lake is head and shoulders above the rest. --[[User:ThunderingTyphoons!|ThunderingTyphoons!]] ([[User talk:ThunderingTyphoons!|talk]]) 23:15, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

::::: OK. The existing banner will live on in the new park article : [[El_Palmar_National_Park]] --[[User:Andrewssi2|Andrewssi2]] ([[User talk:Andrewssi2|talk]]) 01:10, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
::::::Looks great. Gracias --[[User:ThunderingTyphoons!|ThunderingTyphoons!]] ([[User talk:ThunderingTyphoons!|talk]]) 11:30, 28 April 2017 (UTC)

== Australian reciprocity fee ==

As of July 2017 Australians no longer need to pay a fee.
As of Jan 2018 either will Canadians.

See:
http://csigo.cancilleria.gov.ar/content/tasa-de-reciprocidad

:[[User:Nathanp27]], welcome to Wikivoyage! Anyone can edit this page, including you. Please [[plunge forward]] and add this information as you see fit. Best wishes, [[User:ThunderingTyphoons!|ThunderingTyphoons!]] ([[User talk:ThunderingTyphoons!|talk]]) 13:53, 4 December 2017 (UTC)

== Black market currency exchange ==

It seems the new currency policy makes black market currency exchange unnecessary. Is that the case? If yes, the section should probably be reworded or removed. [[User:Hobbitschuster|Hobbitschuster]] ([[User talk:Hobbitschuster|talk]]) 13:07, 12 January 2018 (UTC)

:Indeed, the black market currency exchanges (though they still exist) are unnecessary now. I'll try to update the section. —[[User:Mx. Granger|Granger]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Mx. Granger|talk]] '''·''' [[Special:Contributions/Mx. Granger|contribs]]) 13:56, 12 January 2018 (UTC)

== Currency notation ==

I wonder why we came up with "AR$" as currency notation for Argentina. Actually, no one around here uses this. Everything is priced with just "$" ... of course meaning pesos - "$300". And when spoken, they just say "pesos".

Should we therefore maybe move from "AR$300" to "300 pesos" to have travellers not burdened with a weird notation that can nowhere be found?

Cheers, [[User:Ceever|Ceever]] ([[User talk:Ceever|talk]]) 16:48, 9 March 2018 (UTC)

:I assume it was done to provide clarity between US$ and Argentine $. I assume that as in other places in South America, tourists will encounter some prices in US$ (tours, expensive hotels), so disambiguation makes sense. Using "pesos" works as well, and may be clearer than using a made-up symbol like AR$. [[User:Ground Zero|Ground Zero]] ([[User talk:Ground Zero|talk]]) 02:43, 22 March 2018 (UTC)
:: How about <nowiki>{{ARS|300}}</nowiki> giving {{ARS|300}}. --[[User:Traveler100|Traveler100]] ([[User talk:Traveler100|talk]]) 06:47, 22 March 2018 (UTC)
:::What's wrong with following local norms? We don't differentiate NZ$ in articles about New Zealand for instance. This article should clearly state that the currency of Argentina is pesos, and that the symbol is $. What other places do in South America shouldn't be more important than what Argentines do in their own country, because the traveller reading this is probably visiting Argentina, and not some other South American country. --[[User:ThunderingTyphoons!|ThunderingTyphoons!]] ([[User talk:ThunderingTyphoons!|talk]]) 10:14, 22 March 2018 (UTC)
:::: I agree with ThunderingTyphoons! here, would prefer to use the template but display the $ symbol and mouse over confirm this is pesos. International travellers I think will assume text is referring to the local currency but I think it is worth providing the clarification for everyone and specifically not so well travelled US Americans who could misread the text. --[[User:Traveler100|Traveler100]] ([[User talk:Traveler100|talk]]) 20:07, 22 March 2018 (UTC)
:::::How common is it to see US$ prices in Argentina? It's been 18 years since I was there, so my experience isn't helpful. I know that in Peru, US$ are commonly enough used that disambiguation would be necessary (if $ were used for soles, which it isn't). [[User:Ground Zero|Ground Zero]] ([[User talk:Ground Zero|talk]]) 20:17, 22 March 2018 (UTC)
::::::"$" is so common in Argentina that no one uses it for US$, and when, they use US$. The only place that is not consistent with this convention is booking.com.
::::::Hence, I would be happy moving forward with a correction of "AR$100" towards "$100" or just "100 pesos", while I would prefer "100 pesos" because it is what people use in conversations. Furthermore, "100 pesos" is equally good as "AR$100" when it comes to the differentiation against US$. However, it is actually the thing that is encountered by the traveller, AR$ is not. And it seems to me that "AR$" is rather a helping vehicle for the editors and not the travellers here.
::::::[[User:Ceever|Ceever]] ([[User talk:Ceever|talk]]) 20:33, 10 May 2018 (UTC)
:::::::If "$" is commonly used for pesos in Argentina and US dollars are rarely shown in the country then we should use "$" for pesos. Similar to Australia and New Zealand using "$100" even though in neither case does it refer to US dollars. [[User:DaGizza|<span style="color:teal">Gizza</span>]]<sup> (<i>[[User_talk:DaGizza|<span style="color:teal">roam</span>]]</i>)</sup> 22:46, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

== Huge changes in price ==

{{swept}}
By no means would I accuse this of being vandalism or anything, but I'm a little taken aback by [https://en.wikivoyage.org/w/index.php?title=Puerto_Iguaz%C3%BA&curid=28619&diff=3650475&oldid=3635173&diffmode=source this]. Is it extreme inflation or is this an IP address trying to create problems? I think the first is quite likely, but I think it's best to make sure.

If the inflation is this bad, what's the rest of our [[Argentina]] articles like? Could there possibly be some sort of currency template created that automatically adjusts for inflation for these kinds of places? <small>--Comment by </small> '''[[User:SelfieCity|<span style="color:Olive">Selfie City</span>]]''' ([[User_talk:SelfieCity|<span style="color:olive">talk</span>]] | [[Special:Contributions/SelfieCity|<span style="color:Olive">contributions</span>]]) 03:28, 16 November 2018 (UTC)

:Seems plausible to me. Argentina has had a lot of inflation and currency fluctuation in recent years (see [[Argentina#Buy]]), and some of the prices in question hadn't been updated since well before the fork. When I was traveling in Argentina last year, I found that many of the prices on Wikivoyage were way out of date. This is a reason why it's important to attach dates to prices when adding them to articles, especially in countries like Argentina with unstable currencies. —[[User:Mx. Granger|Granger]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Mx. Granger|talk]] '''·''' [[Special:Contributions/Mx. Granger|contribs]]) 03:41, 16 November 2018 (UTC)

::Thanks; this is useful information. <small>--Comment by </small> '''[[User:SelfieCity|<span style="color:Olive">Selfie City</span>]]''' ([[User_talk:SelfieCity|<span style="color:olive">talk</span>]] | [[Special:Contributions/SelfieCity|<span style="color:Olive">contributions</span>]]) 03:43, 16 November 2018 (UTC)

:::Just found a good example from last year—[https://en.wikivoyage.org/w/index.php?title=Salta&diff=prev&oldid=3334859 these bus fares] in [[Salta]] were off by a factor of seven before I updated them. —[[User:Mx. Granger|Granger]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Mx. Granger|talk]] '''·''' [[Special:Contributions/Mx. Granger|contribs]]) 03:45, 16 November 2018 (UTC)

::::Yeah, and in these countries expensive/imported products and services, and ones that are used by visitors, are usually priced in some hard currency (usually USD).  [[User:Ypsilon|<span style="color:#0000ff"><b>ϒ</b>ψιλον</span>]] ([[User talk:Ypsilon|<span style="color:#333333">talk</span>]]) 14:11, 16 November 2018 (UTC)

:::::Thanks for this information, but still no feedback for some sort of template that used the changes with inflation to update pricing information. Perhaps something similar to [[Template:Populationof]] would be good. But of course, it would be quite a lot of work. <small>--Comment by </small> '''[[User:SelfieCity|<span style="color:Olive">Selfie City</span>]]''' ([[User_talk:SelfieCity|<span style="color:olive">talk</span>]] | [[Special:Contributions/SelfieCity|<span style="color:Olive">contributions</span>]]) 00:27, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

::::::In no way should we use any template that automatically assumes prices increase at the rate of inflation. [[User:Ikan Kekek|Ikan Kekek]] ([[User talk:Ikan Kekek|talk]]) 00:38, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

:::::::Okay. <small>--Comment by </small> '''[[User:SelfieCity|<span style="color:Olive">Selfie City</span>]]''' ([[User_talk:SelfieCity|<span style="color:olive">talk</span>]] | [[Special:Contributions/SelfieCity|<span style="color:Olive">contributions</span>]]) 00:51, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

::::::::You understand why? [[User:Ikan Kekek|Ikan Kekek]] ([[User talk:Ikan Kekek|talk]]) 01:26, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

{{outdent}} Yes. Prices might not always match the inflation. <small>--Comment by </small> '''[[User:SelfieCity|<span style="color:Olive">Selfie City</span>]]''' ([[User_talk:SelfieCity|<span style="color:olive">talk</span>]] | [[Special:Contributions/SelfieCity|<span style="color:Olive">contributions</span>]]) 01:32, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
:Exactly. Inflation (or in depressions, deflation) is an average of changes in price. [[User:Ikan Kekek|Ikan Kekek]] ([[User talk:Ikan Kekek|talk]]) 03:49, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
:: And different types of products behave differently, in ways that are hard to guess without some understanding of the local market and of the reasons for the current inflation. --[[User:LPfi|LPfi]] ([[User talk:LPfi|talk]]) 21:01, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

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Participate in the deletion discussion at the [[commons:Commons:Deletion requests/File:Sequence... (3900053464).jpg|nomination page]]. —[[User:Community Tech bot|Community Tech bot]] ([[User talk:Community Tech bot|talk]]) 21:36, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

== Inflation and what we can do about it ==

I believe for Argentina it doesn't really make sense anymore to quote prices in pesos since inflation is high and probably not going away in the future.

Would it maybe make sense to stick to dollar or euro quotes? Especially I would remove pesos where we have an alternative dollar or euro quote, and as well depending on when something was listed with a peso price to convert that into dollar or euro, depending on the exchange rate of that time.

Accommodation are generally quoted in US$ in Argentina anyhow, so using pesos is far from what travellers will encounter. And for the rest it would be far more helpful than accommodation prices of €2 for a mid-range hotels.

What is your opinion? Any alternative ideas?

Cheers [[User:Ceever|Ceever]] ([[User talk:Ceever|talk]]) 11:55, 23 May 2019 (UTC)
:I agree. I did the same thing for Venezuela: I just removed all of the prices in whatever bolivar they had been posted. [[User:Ground Zero|Ground Zero]] ([[User talk:Ground Zero|talk]]) 16:46, 23 May 2019 (UTC)

::Argentina's level of inflation is a far cry from Venezuela's! For transportation, food, etc., I would keep the prices in pesos (mentioning what year the price is from), and provide USD as well when possible. But where the establishment quotes prices in dollars (as with hotels) I agree that we should follow suit. —[[User:Mx. Granger|Granger]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Mx. Granger|talk]] '''·''' [[Special:Contributions/Mx. Granger|contribs]]) 23:25, 23 May 2019 (UTC)

:::You are right, Venezuela is much worse. However, 10 is also closer than 1,000 to the product of 2x2, but it does not make it more correct&mdash;it is still wrong.
:::Argentinians told me that their salaries are actually adjusted frequently due to the inflation, probably to compensate for everything else that is getting more expensive.
:::Furthermore, for instance, Peninsula Valdes, which I visited 1 year ago, now demands entrance of AR$650. When I was there it was AR$400 ... which is a plus of more than 50%, but less than the inflation of that year of 100%. "It is pure chaos."
:::My point is, most of the peso prices on WV for Argentina are useless to the traveller, especially for food (restaurants, etc.). On transport I would tend to agree with you, but this seems to be the only exception, at least for local transport which is largely subsidized. I highly doubt that national carriers are not also constantly adjusting their prices to be able to pay their drivers.
:::So, should we really keeping prices here pretending they are "kind of right", even though we know sure they are far off, especially accommodation, entrances, national buses, food, and probably 95% of other things as well? How can they even work as a benchmark when there are often no dates visible with the price to the traveller when they where put up?
:::Cheers [[User:Ceever|Ceever]] ([[User talk:Ceever|talk]]) 07:19, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

::::If inflation is so severe that there's no way to keep up with price increases, I think that the best that can be done is to characterize each place as relatively Budget, Mid-range or Splurge, and there should be a note in [[Argentina#Buy]] explaining this. [[User:Ikan Kekek|Ikan Kekek]] ([[User talk:Ikan Kekek|talk]]) 10:14, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

:::::Any price should have a date attached to it, whether it be in pesos, dollars, euros, or bitcoins.
:::::Maybe the inflation is faster than I realized. For items sold in pesos, I'm not sure prices given in dollars or euros are that much more useful than pesos—[[w:Sticky prices|sticky prices]] mean that the dollar equivalents should jump around too as prices get lower and then increase. But I'm not an expert. In any case, if the item is priced in pesos, I think it's better to give pesos and dollars than just dollars, if only to avoid making the reader think the item is priced in dollars the way many hotels are. —[[User:Mx. Granger|Granger]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Mx. Granger|talk]] '''·''' [[Special:Contributions/Mx. Granger|contribs]]) 00:37, 26 May 2019 (UTC)
::::::Things being priced in foreign currencies is a sign that a country's people are giving up on the domestic currency as a useful store of value. The foreign currencies are being used because dollar/euro prices are stable, and peso prices have to be updated frequently. There is no reason for the dollar/euro prices to fluctuate. The last step in the process occurs when the government gives up on the currency, as in Zimbabwe. [[User:Ground Zero|Ground Zero]] ([[User talk:Ground Zero|talk]]) 01:36, 26 May 2019 (UTC)

::::::: Just a question.. do you want to display prices in US Dollars because you want a stable accurate value, or is the currency itself commonly accepted? If the former then I feel the intention is good but impractical to apply to the whole of Wikivoyage. Inflation (or even deflation) is a fact of life in all currencies. [[User:Andrewssi2|Andrewssi2]] ([[User talk:Andrewssi2|talk]]) 02:07, 26 May 2019 (UTC)

::::::::{{ping|Ground Zero}} I think you've misunderstood my comment. Hotels in Argentina are sometimes priced in dollars, and in those cases we should absolutely give the price in dollars, no question about it. The main issue here is products and services (such as transportation and food) that are usually priced in pesos. When the local price is in pesos, the dollar equivalent is bound to fluctuate because the ARS is a comparatively unstable currency and stores can't update prices perfectly in real time to keep up with inflation. Let me reiterate: most products and services in Argentina are ''not'' priced in dollars, or at least they weren't when I was there in 2017. —[[User:Mx. Granger|Granger]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Mx. Granger|talk]] '''·''' [[Special:Contributions/Mx. Granger|contribs]]) 05:42, 26 May 2019 (UTC)

:::::::::# Actually most accommodation in Argentina use US dollars on Booking (when choosing ''display in currency of the establishment''), which is what I saw in 2018 ... probably now even more.
:::::::::# Yes, you are right, most local prices are in peso. But especially the ones relevant for tourists fluctuate visibly.
:::::::::# I doubt that date and peso will be of much help, not many will look up the exchange rate of that date and draw the correct price for today, if that is even possible (mentioning the price delay, etc.). Sure, it can be of so much information that the price is outdated. But what keeps us from removing such obviously off prices, a wrong price is as much useless as a missing one?
:::::::::# I agree, just displaying dollars would be misleading. Maybe it would be meaningful, where possible, to add a dollar price like "(~US$5)"? This would definitely make travellers think twice if they see a hotel price like "AR$100 (~US$20)". In addition, would it be meaningful to remove all peso prices where they obviously cannot be translated into US$ and are certainly off any reasonable and now valid price? Or we could underlie any peso price by a date and then display the according dollar value on mouse over with an according template?
:::::::::Cheers [[User:Ceever|Ceever]] ([[User talk:Ceever|talk]]) 13:52, 26 May 2019 (UTC)
When I was in Argentina, the peso was tied to the US dollar, so I can't speak from experience on this. But either peso prices are variable or they aren't. If a currency is losing value quickly, merchants don't willingly lose money in order to avoid updating prices. Restaurants use chalk boards, shops re-price items, and so on. Showing two prices would be confusing for readers. Which is the correct price? AR$100 or US$20? I would show just ~US$20 with the tilde to show that it is approximate. By the time most readers get to this information, the price in AR$ will be very different, but probably in the range of US$20. [[User:Ground Zero|Ground Zero]] ([[User talk:Ground Zero|talk]]) 14:22, 26 May 2019 (UTC)

==Currency, time and spelling conventions ==
Below is a proposed infobox to let readers know which formatting conventions to use in Wikivoyage articles. This incorporates  the current currency formatting convention identified in [[Wikivoyage:Currency]].  Do you agree with these proposals? If you have direct knowledge of what is most commonly used in the country, please let us know. [[User:Ground Zero|Ground Zero]] ([[User talk:Ground Zero|talk]]) 04:03, 6 December 2019 (UTC)
:Moved to the top of this page. [[User:Ground Zero|Ground Zero]] ([[User talk:Ground Zero|talk]]) 04:53, 28 December 2019 (UTC)
:Continuation from [[Wikivoyage talk:Spelling#Map]], in which {{ping|Ikan Kekek}} brought up, I would support changing the spelling to British per [[Argentina#Talk]]. <span style="font-family:BlinkMacSystemFont">[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]] <small>([[User talk:SHB2000|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/SHB2000|contribs]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[m:User:SHB2000|meta.wikimedia]])</small></span> 06:58, 4 October 2021 (UTC)
Templates used on this page:
Template:ARS (edit)
Template:Currency (view source) (template editor protected)
Template:Outdent (edit)
Template:Ping (view source) (semi-protected)
Template:Swept (edit)
Template:Talk archive (edit)
Template:Talkarchive (edit)
Template:Tmbox (edit)
Module:Exchangerate (edit)
Module:Exchangerate/i18n (edit)
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