Prior discussions have occured at Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard/Archive364#Matt Gaetz, Talk:Matt Gaetz#Criminal allegations in the lede and Talk:Matt Gaetz#LEAD weight TarnishedPath^talk 04:45, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

Given the legal presumption of innocence, criminal proceedings including those against prominent public persons, should not be mentioned on the main page of the encyclopdia until the cases are resolved either by conviction or acquittal. Any appellate proceedings shall have no bearing on whether or not to post the initial findings of a duly constituted court of law."

I have decided to post this as an RfC as this would involve a non-trivial amendment to WP:POLICY and the issue has become a contentious point of debate involving several nominations at WP:ITNC. -Ad Orientem (talk) 17:55, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

Difference between revisions

Prior discussions on this topic here and here. Buffalkill (talk) 14:34, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

According to Fuentes, he is of Mexican descent via his paternal ancestors and is Catholic.^[1][2]

According to Fuentes, he is of Mexican descent via his paternal ancestors and is Catholic.^[3][2]Fuentes lives alone and has been subject to swatting incidents. ^[4][5]

In October 2024, researchers from the European Molecular Biology Laboratory tested the influence of insecticides, herbicides, fungicides and plant growth inhibitors in the laboratory against to larvae of the fruit fly, caterpillars of painted lady butterflies (Vanessa cardui) and in larvae of mosquitoes (Anopheles stephensi). Results suggested that agrochemical exposure, even at sublethal levels, affects insect populations.[6]

Thanks for your comments! Jtbobwaysf (talk) 15:28, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

I think we should avoid using Indian numbering conventions unless it is needed for context. For instance, if we want to list the box office take of an Indian movie, don't use "crore", use "millions". This isn't about disrespecting a culture, it's about using internationally favored notation and unit conventions. We should use "millions" instead of "crore" for the same reason we favor meters over feet. There is no reason that India-related articles should be an enclave of Indian conventions. People who are not Indian will struggle with these things, it will weaken Wikipedia's role as an information tool for everyone.

This is not the same thing as currency. It is appropriate to list an Indian movie's box office take in rupees. Providing a US$ conversion is optional, but a good idea since the US dollar is widely used around the world as a reserve currency. But write it as "millions of rupees", not "crores of rupees". Kurzon (talk) 16:38, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Possible answers:

• No, it should not be linked
• Yes, it should be linked in the lead.
• Yes, it should be linked from the body of the article (please specify which paragraph)

cheers, Huldra (talk) 22:20, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Whilst not really been discused here is has elsewhere so it seems approtate to ask here. Slatersteven (talk) 14:18, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

There's Revision A (November 12th , ID 1256971380)

And there's Revison B (November 16th , ID Revision 1257741855) , which is more or less the article as it is now.

Here's a differences link for comparison.

So the questions are :

• Should the article be reverted back to Revision A ?
• Should the article be kept as it is ? (Revision B) ?

TheCuratingEditor (talk) 17:28, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

I invite comments regarding the number of images that should be in the infobox, from both involved an uninvolved editors.

• Option 0: no image
• Option 1: only one image
• Option 2: two images
• Option 3: three or more images

Note that this is about the number of images, not the specific images to be chosen, since the number of images seems to be the primary point of contention.

I will ping all participants in the discussion above, but please note this is an attempt to establish consensus, not to push any particular point of view, and all editors are welcome to contribute. I hold no position as to the favoured option, and thus won't express my opinion.

Note also that this is a request for comment, not a WP:VOTE; please express a rationale for your position on this, rather than just chiming in. Non-specific references to "the archives" or that this "has been discussed many times" are not sufficient; please re-state your argument here.

— The Anome (talk) 11:26, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

The request would be to alter the lead section of the article to read as follows:

Storrs-Mansfield (/stɔːrzˈmænsfild/ storz-MANS-feeld) is an unincorporated village and census-designated place (CDP) in the town of Mansfield in eastern Tolland County, Connecticut, United States. The community is part of the Capitol Planning Region.

Sometimes referred to as Storrs, the village is dominated economically and demographically by the main campus of the University of Connecticut and the associated Connecticut Repertory Theatre.

Several points of discussion, including the preference and differences between census-designated place boundaries and postal town boundaries are included on the article talk page. It is not appropriate to immediately dismiss the need for a new consensus, due to the substantial official and community usage of both names. Thank you, Jonathanhusky (talk) 19:58, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

In October 2024, researchers from the European Molecular Biology Laboratory tested the influence of insecticides, herbicides, fungicides and plant growth inhibitors in the laboratory against to larvae of the fruit fly, caterpillars of painted lady butterflies (Vanessa cardui) and in larvae of mosquitoes (Anopheles stephensi). Results suggested that agrochemical exposure, even at sublethal levels, affects insect populations.[7]

Thanks for your comments! Jtbobwaysf (talk) 15:28, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

One wolf was even known to have eaten 181 Payette's short-winged grasshoppers in a single sitting.^[8]

? Robert McClenon (talk) 06:02, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

• A. Under maintenance.
• B. Abandoned.
• C. Omit the Current Status field from the infobox.

Robert McClenon (talk) 01:46, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

Robert McClenon (talk) 01:02, 31 October 2024 (UTC)

• Option A WP:Verifiability in primary sources (i.e. the works of fiction themselves)
• Option B Verifiability in secondary/tertiary sources
• Option C WP:Notability (corresponding to WP:CSC #1)

TompaDompa (talk) 16:24, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

• Option 1: Generally reliable
• Option 2: Additional considerations
• Option 3: Generally unreliable
• Option 4: Deprecate

- Amigao (talk) 03:08, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

• Option 1: Generally reliable for factual reporting
• Option 2: Unclear or additional considerations apply
• Option 3: Generally unreliable for factual reporting
• Option 4: Publishes false or fabricated information, and should be deprecated

— Red-tailed hawk _(nest) 19:26, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Prior discussions have occured at Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard/Archive364#Matt Gaetz, Talk:Matt Gaetz#Criminal allegations in the lede and Talk:Matt Gaetz#LEAD weight TarnishedPath^talk 04:45, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

Given the legal presumption of innocence, criminal proceedings including those against prominent public persons, should not be mentioned on the main page of the encyclopdia until the cases are resolved either by conviction or acquittal. Any appellate proceedings shall have no bearing on whether or not to post the initial findings of a duly constituted court of law."

I have decided to post this as an RfC as this would involve a non-trivial amendment to WP:POLICY and the issue has become a contentious point of debate involving several nominations at WP:ITNC. -Ad Orientem (talk) 17:55, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

1."This came at a cost. Assange recounted the legal attacks ('lawfare'), surveillance, and various illegal CIA plots against him, describing it as a form of transnational repression. "—— Chip Gibbons, Jacobin

2."The PACE resolution said it was 'alarmed' by reports that the CIA was covertly surveying Assange in the Ecuadorian Embassy in London and 'allegedly developing plans to poison or even assassinate him on United Kingdom soil'.[PACE] reiterates its condemnation of all forms and practices of transnational repression"—— In the chapter "Transnational repression" Radio France Internationale

Should these information to be added here? Someone insists to delete these with the reason WP:DUE. But I think these should be remained for

1. Assange is name prominent adherent; "Jacobin" and "RFI" are mainstream media; So it is qualified for WP:DUE.

2. The removing of these information is against "does not mean the exclusion of certain points of view; rather, it means including all verifiable points of view which have sufficient due weight.", because none point of these information will be remained.

I want to write these as:

"In Assange's 2024 October speech to the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe, he recounted the legal attacks (“lawfare”), surveillance, and various illegal CIA plots against him and described it as a form of transnational repression.^[9] The PACE resolution saided that, it was "alarmed" by reports that the CIA was covertly surveying Assange in the Ecuadorian Embassy in London and reiterated its condemnation of all forms and practices of transnational repression.^[10]" diff

--MINQI (talk) 16:52, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

Possible answers:

• No, it should not be linked
• Yes, it should be linked in the lead.
• Yes, it should be linked from the body of the article (please specify which paragraph)

cheers, Huldra (talk) 22:20, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

In October 2024, researchers from the European Molecular Biology Laboratory tested the influence of insecticides, herbicides, fungicides and plant growth inhibitors in the laboratory against to larvae of the fruit fly, caterpillars of painted lady butterflies (Vanessa cardui) and in larvae of mosquitoes (Anopheles stephensi). Results suggested that agrochemical exposure, even at sublethal levels, affects insect populations.[11]

Thanks for your comments! Jtbobwaysf (talk) 15:28, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Will Thorpe (talk) 12:11, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

• Option 1: Generally reliable for factual reporting
• Option 2: Unclear or additional considerations apply
• Option 3: Generally unreliable for factual reporting
• Option 4: Publishes false or fabricated information, and should be deprecated

— Red-tailed hawk _(nest) 19:26, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

According to Fuentes, he is of Mexican descent via his paternal ancestors and is Catholic.^[12][2]

According to Fuentes, he is of Mexican descent via his paternal ancestors and is Catholic.^[13][2]Fuentes lives alone and has been subject to swatting incidents. ^[14][15]

1. Should the section on the recognition of Israel by Hamas discuss hypothetical recognition (whether Hamas would recognise Israel) and how prominently, based on the sources in the current version?
   1. Yes, in the first sentence as in the current version
   2. Yes, less prominently later in the section.
   3. No
2. Should we mention the Israeli framing of the conflict with Hamas per Kear in the recognition section?
   1. Yes (as in the current version)
   2. No
3. How should we include Usher's 2006 opinion?
   1. In the recognition section without the year (as in the current version)
   2. In the recognition section with the year
   3. In the evolution of positions section
   4. Nowhere in the article.

This is a revised version of a previous RfC.

Smallangryplanet (talk) 11:12, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

1. Three-point method - uses three points (GDP, HDI and Democracy index) and two criteria (continental and women representation)
2. Population-based method - would affect NPOV in continental and women represenation
3. Other methods - any other new method with NPOV
4. Remove it totally - as it causes frequent edit war over adding and removing images.

I prefer '1)' as it ensures NPOV with continential representation (NA 2, SA 1, EU 3, AF 1, AS 1, OC 1) and women representation (3 leaders). JoshuaJ28 (talk) 07:42, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

1. Yes for US
2. Yes for US and UK
3. No for both

RFCBefore

Smallangryplanet (talk) 13:21, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

The request would be to alter the lead section of the article to read as follows:

Storrs-Mansfield (/stɔːrzˈmænsfild/ storz-MANS-feeld) is an unincorporated village and census-designated place (CDP) in the town of Mansfield in eastern Tolland County, Connecticut, United States. The community is part of the Capitol Planning Region.

Sometimes referred to as Storrs, the village is dominated economically and demographically by the main campus of the University of Connecticut and the associated Connecticut Repertory Theatre.

Several points of discussion, including the preference and differences between census-designated place boundaries and postal town boundaries are included on the article talk page. It is not appropriate to immediately dismiss the need for a new consensus, due to the substantial official and community usage of both names. Thank you, Jonathanhusky (talk) 19:58, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

• Option A WP:Verifiability in primary sources (i.e. the works of fiction themselves)
• Option B Verifiability in secondary/tertiary sources
• Option C WP:Notability (corresponding to WP:CSC #1)

TompaDompa (talk) 16:24, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

This creates a problem particularly for the Crown Dependencies as they are not members of FIFA or UEFA in their own right but part of the English FA. The Crown Dependencies are not part of England in the political sense though. In FIFA terms they are part of England however this could be considered controversial.

There are other instances where this is the case such as players from Åland, the Isle of Wight and Anglesey all of which have football teams that appear at the island games on the same basis as the crown dependencies but in FIFA terms they are part of Finland, England and Wales respectively. Players from these territories would normally have their respective FIFA national team flag on this template. C. 22468 Talk to me 23:00, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

I think we should avoid using Indian numbering conventions unless it is needed for context. For instance, if we want to list the box office take of an Indian movie, don't use "crore", use "millions". This isn't about disrespecting a culture, it's about using internationally favored notation and unit conventions. We should use "millions" instead of "crore" for the same reason we favor meters over feet. There is no reason that India-related articles should be an enclave of Indian conventions. People who are not Indian will struggle with these things, it will weaken Wikipedia's role as an information tool for everyone.

This is not the same thing as currency. It is appropriate to list an Indian movie's box office take in rupees. Providing a US$ conversion is optional, but a good idea since the US dollar is widely used around the world as a reserve currency. But write it as "millions of rupees", not "crores of rupees". Kurzon (talk) 16:38, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Potential options:

1. Yes, articles on subnational entities and municipalities in the title should have "none as a short description"
2. Only for cities and subnational entities that an "average reader would know" (which I have seen brought up in the past) should have "none" as a short description (most readers know about Delhi, Texas, and Moscow, not so much Kilgore, Texas, and Ncojane) (This has been brought up in the past by Remsense)
3. No, none of these apply for WP:SDNONE (a format will have to be provided for what should be recommended in the new guideline)

Thanks! -1ctinus📝🗨 22:06, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

RFCBefore Selfstudier (talk) 18:18, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

The header is now 2 lines tall. What Timeshifter is now proposing (scroll down this example) is a narrow one-line sticky header with a link from the "Status" column head back to the "Legend" section of the article. And a link from the "Sources" column head back to the "Sources" section of the article. Notes explain this just above the table. He states this allows new users of the table to quickly return to the table TOC, or to quickly find the meaning of the legend icons.

An issue in any skin other than the default Vector 2022: When you use the horizontal table TOC, or if you follow ("jump to") an anchored link within the table such as WP:FORBESCON, the top line of the note in the row you jump to would be covered by the narrow sticky header. 2 lines are covered by the 2-line header. Template discussions have not found a way to fix this. Timeshifter does not believe this is a serious problem. Others do. One solution (see E below) is to add a line's worth of blank padding at the top of each row.

• A: No sticky header, same style (2-line) header as before.
• B: Full size (2-line) header with sticky enabled.
• C: Narrow (1-line) header without sticky enabled.
• D: Narrow header with sticky header that follows you around.
• E: Same as D, but with padding at the top of each row.

Graywalls (talk) 15:04, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

Given the legal presumption of innocence, criminal proceedings including those against prominent public persons, should not be mentioned on the main page of the encyclopdia until the cases are resolved either by conviction or acquittal. Any appellate proceedings shall have no bearing on whether or not to post the initial findings of a duly constituted court of law."

I have decided to post this as an RfC as this would involve a non-trivial amendment to WP:POLICY and the issue has become a contentious point of debate involving several nominations at WP:ITNC. -Ad Orientem (talk) 17:55, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

Potential options:

1. Yes, articles on subnational entities and municipalities in the title should have "none as a short description"
2. Only for cities and subnational entities that an "average reader would know" (which I have seen brought up in the past) should have "none" as a short description (most readers know about Delhi, Texas, and Moscow, not so much Kilgore, Texas, and Ncojane) (This has been brought up in the past by Remsense)
3. No, none of these apply for WP:SDNONE (a format will have to be provided for what should be recommended in the new guideline)

Thanks! -1ctinus📝🗨 22:06, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

• Option 1: Only those former administrators desysopped for inactivity
• Option 2: All former administrators

Thryduulf (talk) 22:50, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

As with any petition, all that is wanted is signatures. Any editor may and should remove any material found on a petition page except for the nomination and signatures. Any exceptions should be discussed and agreed to on the talk page first.

Yes or no? Suggestions of changes to the text are of course invited. Herostratus (talk) 05:06, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

• Option A: Keep the petition period the same (30 days)
• Option B: Change the petition period to 7 days
• Option C: Some other time period (like 14 or 15 days?) that's longer than a week but shorter than a month.

Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 19:20, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

RFCBefore Selfstudier (talk) 18:18, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

• Option 1a: When using Special:MergeHistory, a null edit should be placed in both the merge target and merge source's page's histories stating that a history merge took place.

  (phab:T341760: Special:MergeHistory should place a null edit in the page's history describing the merge, authored Jul 13 2023)

• Option 1b: When using Special:MergeHistory, add a log entry recorded for the articles at the both HistMerge target and source that records the existence of a history merge.

  (phab:T118132: Merging pages should add a log entry to the destination page, authored Nov 8 2015)

• Option 2: Do not log the use of the Special:MergeHistory tool at the merge target, maintaining the current status quo.

Should the use of the HistMerge tool be explicitly logged? If so, should the use be logged via an entry in the page history or should it instead be held in a dedicated log? — Red-tailed hawk _(nest) 15:51, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

• Option 1: Yes. The bot should automatically reject any such submissions.
• Option 2: Yes. The bot should add such submissions to a list, similar to the list of possible copyvios.
• Option 3: Yes. The bot should notify the submitter and comment on the submission.
• Option 4: Yes. The bot should add such submissions to a list and notify the submitter and comment on the submission.
• Option 5: No.

JJP_Master (she/they) 18:55, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

The header is now 2 lines tall. What Timeshifter is now proposing (scroll down this example) is a narrow one-line sticky header with a link from the "Status" column head back to the "Legend" section of the article. And a link from the "Sources" column head back to the "Sources" section of the article. Notes explain this just above the table. He states this allows new users of the table to quickly return to the table TOC, or to quickly find the meaning of the legend icons.

An issue in any skin other than the default Vector 2022: When you use the horizontal table TOC, or if you follow ("jump to") an anchored link within the table such as WP:FORBESCON, the top line of the note in the row you jump to would be covered by the narrow sticky header. 2 lines are covered by the 2-line header. Template discussions have not found a way to fix this. Timeshifter does not believe this is a serious problem. Others do. One solution (see E below) is to add a line's worth of blank padding at the top of each row.

• A: No sticky header, same style (2-line) header as before.
• B: Full size (2-line) header with sticky enabled.
• C: Narrow (1-line) header without sticky enabled.
• D: Narrow header with sticky header that follows you around.
• E: Same as D, but with padding at the top of each row.

Graywalls (talk) 15:04, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

• Option 1a: When using Special:MergeHistory, a null edit should be placed in both the merge target and merge source's page's histories stating that a history merge took place.

  (phab:T341760: Special:MergeHistory should place a null edit in the page's history describing the merge, authored Jul 13 2023)

• Option 1b: When using Special:MergeHistory, add a log entry recorded for the articles at the both HistMerge target and source that records the existence of a history merge.

  (phab:T118132: Merging pages should add a log entry to the destination page, authored Nov 8 2015)

• Option 2: Do not log the use of the Special:MergeHistory tool at the merge target, maintaining the current status quo.

Should the use of the HistMerge tool be explicitly logged? If so, should the use be logged via an entry in the page history or should it instead be held in a dedicated log? — Red-tailed hawk _(nest) 15:51, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

• Option 1: Generally reliable for factual reporting
• Option 2: Unclear or additional considerations apply
• Option 3: Generally unreliable for factual reporting
• Option 4: Publishes false or fabricated information, and should be deprecated

— Red-tailed hawk _(nest) 19:26, 13 November 2024 (UTC)