Talk:Post–World War II anti-fascism

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: No consensus to move to the proposed title (non-admin closure) (t · c) buidhe 00:23, 4 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Post-World War II anti-fascism → Anti-fascist action networks – The current title and lead section suggests a far broader subject matter than the contents. If this article was about the entirety of "post-World War II anti-fascism" it would talk about the Spanish transition away from fascism and the counterprotests to the Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville, Virginia. Instead, the contents of this article is specifically about left-leaning groups that employ direct action. —SpanishSnake (talk | contribs) 20:01, 26 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

—Relisting. ItsPugle (please ping on reply) 23:26, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment. What is an "action network"? Surely Anti-fascist activism since World War II would be a better title? There were plenty of "left-leaning groups that employed direct action" before World War II and these would presumably not be intended to fall within its scope. If they were, History of anti-fascist activism might be better. —Brigade Piron (talk) 14:03, 28 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose – this feels like a solution in search of a problem, and the proposed title has its own issues. If there are sources that identify the Spanish transition as a moment in the history of anti-fascism then it can probably be mentioned here. The main reason Charlottesville isn't mentioned is because this article uses summary style and it's mentioned in Antifa (United States), but, again, it may be significant enough to merit a mention here too. As Brigade Piron notes, "action network" is ambiguous; also, using "anti-fascist action" would lead to confusion with Anti-Fascist Action; and losing "post-World War II" would leave readers wondering why the article has nothing to say on anti-fascist movements active around fascism's pre-1945 heyday. – Arms & Hearts (talk) 19:21, 28 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose - If you look up this talk page you'll see this discussion has come and gone and there have been a few name change proposals, as the article has gone back and forth between being an introduction to "antifa" movements/networks and an overview of anti-fascism after WWII. Both versions are problematic. The problem with an articule on post-WWII movements is that it creates an arbitrary divide with the main Anti-fascism article which used to come up to the present day until the material from the last seventy years was moved here. But there is no particular reason for a more focused article on Anti-fascist action networks, because we have an article called Antifa (albeit oddly recently edited to include a bunch of things that aren't called Antifa). So I would be in favour of finally making it a proper article on Post-WWII anti-fascism, including opposuition to Franco and current US mobilisations against the far right, etc. BobFromBrockley (talk) 10:45, 30 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment: "Anti-fascism" is a term with a very specific history and meaning, and is overwhelmingly associated with the former Soviet bloc where it was ubiquitous and used synonymously with the party line until 1989 (e.g. "Anti-Fascist Protection Wall", the official name of the Berlin Wall), and with certain left-wing groups or movements outside of the Soviet bloc, especially what is known as "Antifa" or antifascist action networks. It is crucial to understand that "anti-fascism" within both of these contexts didn't refer simply to opposition to the actual far right as most people in the west understand it, it could include opposition to everything from social democrats to western democracies. Within antifascist action networks/Antifa, they still use "anti-fascism" to refer to more than just opposition to actual fascism or the actual far right; often attacks on police, the military etc. are framed as anti-fascism. This is clearly already an article on anti-fascism as a left-wing ideology/movement/strategy/slogan, which includes but is somewhat broader than just Antifascist action networks. It has no less than 15(!) images of the (communist and anarchist) Antifa logo. It would not be appropriate to include Spain's transition to democracy in this article, because that is an entirely different topic than the movement or ideology covered by this article; I don't think Juan Carlos I is commonly regarded as an "anti-fascist". Still, the title of the article isn't ideal, because not everyone is aware of how Antifascist action network or the communist parties of the former Soviet bloc have used the term fascism (and anti-fascism). Anti-fascism (left-wing movement), Anti-fascism (left-wing political current) or something like that would be a clearer title. It is not as narrow as the proposed title, and defines what is already the topic in a clearer way than the current title. Opposition to the far right in the U.S., Spain's transition to democracy are all worthy causes that should perhaps be included in other articles or articles yet to be written on other topics than the movement once started by the Communist Party of Germany at the urging of Comintern under Stalin at a time when they were in the habit of referring to social democrats as fascists (the 15 flags in the article was the symbol of that movement, a movement that German authorities consider to be extremist today). --Tataral (talk) 04:40, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]