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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 197.107.24.74 (talk) at 06:47, 24 February 2013 (→Various changes). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Some more videos

Here's a video of the rebels in the cement factory: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKXkmptwidM ( pro rebels video ) and this video is showing rebels in Ashraffyieh http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSZsmKUhlRY ( unverfied pro rebels video ) --Amedjay (talk) 18:58, 1 February 2013 (UTC) Futuretrilionaire ,is right that color of sheikh saed became all green because fsa took control of it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.107.236.143 (talk) 13:18, 2 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Rumor from syrian activists is that Al Muhallab military base in Tishreen has fallen. I have not seen video confirmation, but 5 videos of a major assult came out today. Here is one showing some intense fighting. The tank is FSA... it's bit confusing since it's shooting just past the cameras but the other videos show more of the vantage. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVWxnv8dILk&feature=youtu.be

no footage yet, but these areas around Tishreen are also seeing heavy fighting. Nile Street at the Al Arabi roundabout, FSA assualting from Khalidiyeh district. Heavy fighting reported south of Tishreen in Sabil. This is in line with other reports of fighting in Mogambo, Mohafaza, and Shaba. To the west, the FSA appear to control most of Khan Asal just off the map. They are shelling the artillery base and Al Assad military college. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfskDiGgiAQ Fighting reported in Mansoura. Sporadic fighting every few days reported at the university, new aleppo, and Zahraa. Also in Salahadine, FSA surrounds the stadiums on 3 sides now. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWXEAwT6mSs To the east, it appears Kweres is in serous trouble.. FSA is a few hundred yards from the command center. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZCt-ioJmts Oddly, there is still fighting in Kindi to the north.. must be an SAA base still alive in the area. Granted I originally predicted Aleppo would fall by now.. but the writing does appear to be on the wall. GFS — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.104.169.68 (talk) 06:25, 6 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

As a side note.. I have seen recent video from the Syrian Quarter and Jdeydeh that indicate there is only about 600 yards now between the two fronts. Hnano Baracks and Midan will be cut off soon if they don't pull out. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.104.169.68 (talk) 06:34, 6 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The location of this footage can't be documented, but is in line with recent reports from Bustan Al Basha. The video proports to show FSA in Midan. I can't confirm, but other videos and sources lead me to believe, the FSA has indeed pushed into Midan to at least some minor extent. At the very least, the SAA arrow should be removed. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7aNLbawxjg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxNTYz_jGdQ

Another unverifiable video, from the area around Khair Mosque. This area is between the citadel and the great mosque, it has been a wasteland for months. Both the Citadel and the Mosque are cut off. There is either a single line of SAA supply, or it's being air dropped, or the SAA is busting through on a temporary basis. The FSA generally controls this area if anyone does.. the whole area is a death zone and should be shown as contested. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlOxKNfdyMU — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.104.169.68 (talk) 07:23, 12 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

@76.104.... thanks for your videos. I'm asking you, do you have any videos reported fighting next to the int Airport or even inside the airport, any videos of rebels or army in the Madafet al Nairab district? --Amedjay (talk) 19:59, 12 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Nothing showing the FSA inside the international airport. They appear to be very close, but as far as I know, have not attacked in force. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S12on8bSPkM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Tn0JKN_hyw I did see another video about a week ago of FSA sniper positions overlooking the main gate, but I can't find it now. To the south, the FSA control Madafet al Nairab as far as I can tell.. I've seen a few videos from this vantage. It's been bombed heavily. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyvrAsZKOgg — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.90.184.237 (talk) 20:47, 12 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

What about Salahedinne? --Amedjay (talk) 21:10, 12 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Salahedinne appears to be mostly FSA controlled. The SAA is making incursions from the stadium towards the Saad ibn Abī Waqqās Mosque to the East from reports.. There are also at least 3 videos showing the FSA attacking the stadium grounds. One video from the north, one from the east, and one from the south, so I suspect that the SAA isn't making any progress. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpZlwIA9c4Y — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.90.184.237 (talk) 00:54, 13 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Amedjay, you asked about Nairab. I found this new video today. I don't speak arabic so I'm relying on the accuracy of the translation, but it appears to be aerial bombing of Nairab. You can see 2-3 FSA and a few civilians running through the smoke. https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=thapOk_2RWo If the SAA is bombing it, it means it's almost certainly under FSA control. The SAA typically doesn't bomb their own districts when the FSA assults. Generally they bomb FSA territory, or on some occasions, disputed territory in a major drawn out fight. Numerous videos of the FSA attacking the int. airport from the south confirm it's FSA held. GFS — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.104.169.68 (talk) 07:18, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks 76 , your videos have use because they help us to see were fighting is. With the takeover of base 80, airport has no more protection and it appears to be under almost complete siege maybe there is still some SAA presence in north of the district but like you said the army wouldn't shell its own territory. --Amedjay (talk) 18:29, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Do you report fighting in Arqoub or Suleiman al halabi? --Amedjay (talk) 18:38, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Various changes

In the talk, we agreed that Tishreen and Ramousse are contested. Ramousse is fine, however Tishreen is still red and Zuhoor has been colored contested. Also, the red blot in the south should be colored contested as well. There are no structures there, and considering the rebels surrounding the airport and now extending their control along the east bank of Quweikis, plus the information that they had attacked As-Safira way back in December, makes this red bulge look kind of silly. 197.109.0.105 (talk) 13:47, 2 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

 Done I think. --FutureTrillionaire (talk) 02:13, 3 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yes and we should even coulour green the western part of the depopulated area next to airport because of the takeover of the highway leading to the airport. --Amedjay (talk) 18:24, 3 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Unverified reports. The fluidity of the situation appears to have grown significantly over the last few weeks. With a few exceptions, I can't find the front lines anymore and I suspect the map is growing increasingly inaccurate. The problem is, there is very little info coming out of Aleppo even compared to 1 month ago. For example, credible reports of heavy fighting along with a few videos have come from these areas. Nile Street, Tishreen, Al Sabeel, Shaaba, Muhafaza, Jamileeya, Zahraa, Mansoura, Al Nasr, Hamdaniya, New Aleppo, the university, Hamidiya, all areas surounding the citadel and mosque, Midan. Note that all of these are in SAA held territory on the map. Very few reports have come in going the other direction. SAA appears to have attacked and mostly withdrawn from Ashrafiyeh, areas of the Old city, Salahadine, Bustan Al Qasr. None of these actions gained any ground. All of my info leads me to believe, SAA held Aleppo is now 100% cut off, and in some cases, their own territory is cut off from other held districts. In some cases FSA incursions have reached into the very center parts of the city in SAA held territory. I guess my point is, that I don't think the map is fully accurate anymore, but I don't have a clue as to what to do about it. The only thing I know for certain is that the lines are shifting in on the SAA in several areas, and the infiltration by the FSA forbodes several rapid losses of districts to the FSA at some point probably soon. My best guess is that the FSA is hitting the center city from mostly the north through Tishreen, and from the west through Jdeydeh. Probably to the extent that the 2 fronts can literally shake hands in the middle during some operations. GFS — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.104.169.68 (talk) 08:36, 23 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The city has been surrounded for two months now, ever since the fall of Khan Touman. Lack of ammunition, and especially a lack of fuel, is taking it's toll on SAA operational capacity. Further exacerbating the situation is the apparent unwillingness of SAA commanders to adapt to the complete role reversal from July. They are still trying to hold on to everything and even continue the offensives. When the fronts finally do collapse, it will be extremely rapid. --197.107.24.74 (talk) 06:47, 24 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Font cleanup

Can something be done to clean up the fonts used for each district so things look at least somewhat uniform? It's fine to use different sizes for smaller things, but the random bold and squished text makes this look like an elementary-schooler designed it. ~~ Lothar von Richthofen (talk) 02:40, 3 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Sheikh Said contested ?

While I am fully aware that SANA is not a reliable source, they claim that the Army has killed rebels in area of the cement factory in Sheikh Said. Some photos of army troops in the area have appeared in a pro-government group at a certain social network as well: [1] [2] [3]. Should the area be considered contested ? - ☣Tourbillon A ? 21:31, 3 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Do the pictures have dates on them? Army could also kill rebels in Sheikh Said with long range weapons and aircraft without actually entering the district, so regardless of the source, this information proves nothing. 41.76.208.114 (talk) 06:25, 4 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Photos appeared yesterday. Some additional ones available here [4]. - ☣Tourbillon A ? 09:02, 4 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The cement factory is outside of the area depicted in this map. So these pictures will not affect the Sheikh Said district. But on a more general level, if these pictures prove nothing then those videos that show rebels crossing the highway and taking over the cement factory also prove nothing. Susurri (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 09:59, 4 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
It's really amazing how wikipedia users stubbornly fail to contextualize information. For example: Credible information was available that army was using the Sheikh Said-Ramousse bridge until late January. No information was available about Rebels using this bridge at that or any previous time. Video evidence surfaced in Feb of rebels crossing this bridge freely. Conclusion: Rebels seized the bridge in late January/early February. To this conclusion we arrive because this video, based on the previous information available, could not have been produced prior to this date. Now, when a day later the government release pictures of army soldiers at this bridge, to arrive at the conclusion that the army has retaken the bridge, we must have credible evidence these pictures were not taken prior to the rebel seizure of the bridge, which based on information available they could of been. The date on which the pictures were released proves nothing. There could have passed an X amount of time between the pictures being taken and them being released. I really hate sounding like a smart ass, but there really is no other way of explaining common sense. 41.76.208.114 (talk) 12:25, 4 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Did you look at the link that Tourbillon posted? The pictures don't have any bridges in them. They only show rebel corpses and their equipment amidst of government soldiers at the cement factory. I still cannot comprehend how pictures of dead rebels at a cement factory where no rebel had gone before prove nothing, but videos of alive rebels and their equipment at the very same cement factory make perfect sense in the contextual information that we have. Susurri (talk) 19:07, 4 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for reminding me, no I have not. Now that I have, I am a bit puzzled. These pictures reputedly show regular army troops, yet only a handful have complete military uniforms, most wear sneakers and almost none of them have helmets? The only thing that would distinguish them as government troops is a few small flags on the soldiers' vests and a flag that if you look closely is being taken off a jeep. If it wasn't for the title of that page, I'd be convinced I was looking at rebel forces. 41.76.208.114 (talk) 12:01, 5 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Take a more careful look at the three photos I linked to above. One of the soldiers has a Syrian Arab Republic flag with Bashar Assad's portrait on the back of his vest; one of the obviously militia fighters wears an Arab Republic flag as a scarf; government flags can be seen in other details (AK mags for example). The force is obviously not completely regular, but it certainly is pro-government. This said, I'm not insisting that the government is completely in control of the site, but I don't think Sheikh Said can be considered under complete rebel control if there are government troops there. - ☣Tourbillon A ? 14:35, 5 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
According to Wikimapia, Sheikh Said ends at the highway. The cement factory is on the other side of the highway. ~~ Lothar von Richthofen (talk) 18:10, 5 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Fair enough. - ☣Tourbillon A ? 18:45, 5 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
According to (France24) and (PBS) the cement factory is in the Sheikh Said district.--Liquidinsurgency (talk) 00:41, 7 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Nope it's past of the highway and it's not even in the map. Please let's stop this is nonsense. --Amedjay (talk) 18:23, 9 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

AJE confirming that the highway is now the dividing line [5]. Map is correct, case closed. ~~ Lothar von Richthofen (talk) 05:40, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Ashrafieh

I've read info for fighting between SAA and FSA in Ashrafieh. According to map this is kurdish held area. Does anybody know about possesion change or fight between SAA and FSA in this area? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.40.118.68 (talk) 12:48, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

@46.... i've seen videos of fighting between FSA and SAA but also fighting SAA vs PYD --Amedjay (talk) 19:21, 12 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Ashrafieh is mostly controlled by the PYD, but it is a mixed neighborhood. The initial stance of the PYD was to arm and hold their neighborhood but avoid conflict with the SAA. It worked to both parties advantage. About 2-3 months ago, an increasing FSA presence formed there and there were a few clashes between the FSA and PYD. The dispute was resolved and the PYD released public statements supporting the revolution. The FSA has had access to the neighborhood for some time. They were more and more open about using the area and I've seen a number of videos of the FSA there, which is why the SAA bombed it. Once the SAA bombed it the PYD became actively engaged in the fight. They are now fighting alongside the FSA. For all practical purposes, the PYD is now an active combat force fighting in aleppo. They have a distinct and different command structure, but so do many fighting units there. We use the term FSA rather loosley here. the PYD could be considered to be FSA in the same way Al Nusra Front or any other independent revolutionary fighting force could be considered to be FSA. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.90.184.237 (talk) 20:57, 12 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure if this is from Ashrafieh, but it illustrates the current status of the PYD in the war. At least the Aleppo PYD has put aside it's political differences and is directly working with the FSA. It will be some help, but from what I've seen, although the kurds have a long history of independent militias and armed resistance, they have shown very little evidence of being an effective military fighting force at this scale of battle. They are newly joined in the battle and it will be months before they are hardened enough to do much. I hope I'm wrong... Still, the unity of the PYD and FSA is a very positive sign for Syria. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eZwqtyZXXw GFS — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.104.169.68 (talk) 07:33, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, the YPG doesn't really attack SAA , they just protect their territory and as for Ashraffieh , I think it's safe to say it has majoritary kurdish presence in the north , FSA presence in the north-west and SAA presence in the south --Amedjay (talk) 18:18, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Amedjay, I think the situation has grown more complicated. In some towns, the PYD appears to be holding a truce with the SAA, although there has been recent fighting in the NE of Syria. In others, they have been fighting the FSA although I have heard no recent reports of that happening. In Aleppo/Ashraffieh, they are clearly at the very least, holding an armed front of their territory and fighting the SAA incursions, directly with the FSA. I don't have any info showing the PYD on the offensive, but they appear to be at the very least holding the battle line to support the FSA in offensive manuevers. The PYD in Aleppo is no longer on the sidelines. The pressure will grow for them to support the FSA in a more and more active manner. I am just speculating, but I believe that things changed when the FSA tried to move through Ashraffieh to support their battle lines and hit the SAA back in October. There was some fighting between the FSA and PYD, resulting in the kidnapping of a PYD leader. After that the FSA released them and a series of PYD videos emerged supporting the FSA.. since then, the FSA has had a growing presence and the PYD has been increasingly active and agressive towards the SAA. As far as I know, the SAA has NO presence in Ashrafieh.. only limited incursions unless they are holding territory from very recent assults. There are also interesting recent reports of some FSA soldiers joining the Kurds because they see them as a more moderate stabalizing force less prone to looting and other war crimes. This is making the PYD in Ashrafieh a more diverse force, but also a less well armed and less agressive force. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.104.169.68 (talk) 08:07, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Airport

Looks like the airport is now under control of the FSA. http://blogs.aljazeera.com/topic/syria/rebels-overrun-military-airport-north-syria-%E2%80%93-afp Lev Lafayette (talk) 09:44, 12 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I'm pretty sure that's a different airport in Aleppo province.--FutureTrillionaire (talk) 18:45, 12 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, it's Jirah airport... --Amedjay (talk) 19:19, 12 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Here is the source: http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Middle-East/2013/Feb-12/206090-rebels-overrun-military-airport-in-north-syria-activists.ashx#ixzz2Kfu1yQx0%20 --Amedjay (talk) 19:52, 12 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It looks like the rebels have taken over much of Brigade 80 and attacking the Nairab air base. [6] --FutureTrillionaire (talk) 21:01, 12 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah thanks , I added it to the news --Amedjay (talk) 21:09, 12 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Base 80 is in FSA hands [7] Moester101 (talk) 07:32, 13 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Also, al-Manara checkpoint, the last in Malikiyah district, is now in FSA hands, according to source provided by futuretriollionaire earlier, and also seen on other sites. Even 'Assan bridge in the southeast has been taken, so area west of madafet nairab is now in opposition hands. Moester101 (talk) 07:39, 13 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

In his twitter on February 12th @finriswolf referred to the following map: #Aleppo: MAP Int. Airport - areas currently under attack by #FSA http://imgur.com/pFas3d8 - regrettably without giving a source. The map shows contested areas between base 80 and the airport. Also with date of February 13, some pro-FSA twitters speak more carefully of FSA having liberated "most" of base 80. For the time being, maybe you're better off with marking base 80 and the area between base 80 and airport as contested. On February 10th, @finriswolf referred to the following " 79% accurate map" http://twitpic.com/c2kwbq implying that the airport column that was headed to Al-Safira has left the airport area on the southern side without facing FSA resistance. If true, the area south of the airport seems to be SAA controlled. Finriswolf's sources cannot be identified in the english twitters/facebook pages. Either the guy has access to non-english sources or suffers from fertile imagination. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.18.178.94 (talk) 16:05, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

"The area between base 80 and airport" ( Malkikiyah ) is cleary under rebel control because of the SIEGE of the int airport. Rebels control areas north of airport , west of aiport , partially east of airport and most likely south of aiport. --Amedjay (talk) 18:12, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

According to this, the army is preparing to try and take back Base 80, so yes, it is under rebel control. ~~ Lothar von Richthofen (talk) 16:17, 15 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Base 80 overrun

See here. ~~ Lothar von Richthofen (talk) 16:38, 13 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The SOHR is only saying that rebels seized 'most of' Brigade 80, inherently implying that it is still contested and that government troops still control at least part of it. Should remain as olive for now. 68.149.163.72 (talk) 01:08, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The recent changes also should not include the Jibreen district (between Base 80 and the airport). It is not a given that the takeover of Base 80 results in the takeover of Jibreen.--41.76.208.114 (talk) 04:36, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
That looks like Malikiyah; Jibreen is off the map. And as for "most of", news outlets report that it "has come under insurgent control". Maybe a few govt troops scattered in a few holdouts, but that's the norm for when a base gets overrun. Unless there's credible evidence of a major govt counterattack there, it should remain green. ~~ Lothar von Richthofen (talk) 15:31, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

In the next weeks the int. Airport is going to be in serious trouble I guess. --78.232.100.63 (talk) 18:05, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Woops , forgot to connect --Amedjay (talk) 18:13, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]


According to some sources 80-th military brigade is 15km far from Allepo/east direction/. So current position on map is wrong.


No, it's right. Base 80 is the artillery base that protects the airfield. It forms the military ground together with the Nairab Army Base just southeast of the airport. I read though that rebels claimed to have "fully encirceld" the airport and the Nairab base. But on Google Maps and Earth, there is a civilian town south of the airport (seen here as Nairab on the map). Shoudn't that be green? Also, I'm not sure about Saif al-Dawla, since it seems that district is firmly in rebel hands and fighting had again moved into Salahhedine or grounded to a halt in the overall stalemate in the city. At this point, it seems strange that rebels are contested in Saif al-Dawla, while also fighting in eastern Salahhedine (since this wouldn't give them a proper line of advance and communication back to their front) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.24.43.183 (talk) 10:03, 15 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Not strange at all. The contest may be in northern part of Saif-al-Dawla, from Izra and Al-Kawakibi, which would still allow the rebels a line of communication to the sports stadium in SW Salaheddine.--197.171.149.252 (talk) 13:08, 15 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yes your right indeed. Hadn't thought about that when I wrote this part ;) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.24.43.183 (talk) 09:49, 16 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Eastern Salahedinne has been considered as unclear or SAA controlled for a long time , but most of the fights are reported in the western area of the district so maybe we should color the eastern part green? --Amedjay (talk) 18:49, 17 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I made most of seif al dawla under rebel control ,except the northern tip which I made it still contested . Abdo45 (talk) 19:14, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Old city gates

According to Le Figaro article few days ago rebels overran Bab Hadith, Bab al-Nasr (Aleppo) and Bab al-Faraj (Aleppo) gates which are entrances to old city of Aleppo. Hadith and Nasr are in contested area on map but Faraj are in regime-controlled - the square above Umayyad mosque - [8]. Cheers EllsworthSK (talk) 02:14, 17 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe we should consider putting the whole old city as unclear. Fighting rages there since October 2012... --Amedjay (talk) 18:45, 17 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I think we should put al-asrafiyah neighborhood as contested because there is fighting in the neighborhood . Abdo45 (talk) 19:11, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Unless someone has information on Ashrafiyeh, I'd suggest it remain as Kurd or FSA/Kurd. The only reports I've seen are of limited short term incursions followed by quick withdrawls by the SAA. I've seen no evidence of them holding any territory. If I'm wrong, someone please post some links. I'd also like to hear what's going on in Tishreen. I've heard nothing since the videos about 10 days ago showing a major FSA assult on the base there.

76 here's a video of rebels in a tank supposed to be situated near or in the almohalab military coumpound however I couldn't verify the source however http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2CA0gX3YAo --78.232.100.63 (talk) 15:04, 20 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

With respect to the Old City, it has been disputed at the very least for months. From videos and mainstream news sources, it is quite clearly mostly FSA controlled. The SAA only holds the citadel, and the mosque. From time to time they appear to retake enough ground near Bahraat to reach the mosque, but I'm not sure if they have been able to reach the citadel for months. For all practical purposes, the FSA controls the territory around both, but the front lines are fluid enough that I'd show it as disputed. GFS — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.104.169.68 (talk) 06:53, 20 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This has nothing to do with city gates to old city that I´ve sourced. EllsworthSK (talk) 02:17, 22 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The link you posted is from july! Tradedia (talk) 03:03, 24 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
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