Initiated by WJBscribe (talk) at 00:03, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• WJBscribe (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA), filing party
• WMFOffice (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Floquenbeam (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), added by BU Rob13 on 04:08, 13 June 2019
• Bishonen (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), added by BU Rob13 on 04:08, 13 June 2019

Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request

• WMFOffice notified by WJBscribe
• Floquenbeam made a statement below
• Bishonen notified by Starship.paint

Confirmation that other steps in dispute resolution have been tried

Wikipedia:Bureaucrats' noticeboard#Resysop request (Floq)
Wikipedia:Community response to the Wikimedia Foundation's ban of Fram

I restored the admin permissions of Floquenbeam (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA), which were not removed through a community process or as a result of a ruling by ArbCom. My reasons for doing so are stated in this post. I refer this action to ArbCom for review and scrutiny. I will of course accept any sanction that ArbCom judges appropriate.

My name is Jan Eissfeldt and I’m commenting in my role as Lead Manager of the Wikimedia Foundation Trust & Safety team.

The Trust & Safety team apologizes for the disruption caused by our implementation of an Office Action. While the application of Office Actions is at times unavoidable, in this case it caused disruption to the community, which was not our intention. By default, we always aim to follow the principle of least intrusion possible for Office Actions. In the future we will improve our coordination with community-elected bodies like ArbCom across the movement when carrying out our duties.

The recent change to Office Action policy that allowed for the introduction of time-limited and partial (project-specific) bans is not a change of the team’s scope of cases taken. However, it does alter the way that sanctions are enforced by introducing more gradual steps intended to fill the gap between conduct warning office actions and indefinite global bans. We acknowledge that there has been confusion about how these changes apply to the English Wikipedia community.

Though my team followed precedent for a Foundation desysop of those who attempt to interfere in Office Actions, in deference to the confusion of this case, the Foundation will not be issuing further sanctions against or desysopping those who edited the block or the sysop rights of those who edited the Fram block to date. We defer to Arbcom’s judgment on how to proceed with regard to such behavior issues in this case.

The Trust & Safety team wants to stress that we do not want to impede or damage local processes on this project. We want to work with the English Wikipedia community and ArbCom on improvements to processes. We are closely following the discussions, including the ones on the ArbCom Noticeboard discussion page. about ideas for improvements and might comments on several of them in response to community questions there or on the other page as part of the issues we are currently exploring.

A more detailed post on the current situation is here and I will publish a first follow-up to non-ArbCom questions there shortly.--Jan (WMF) (talk) 19:29, 14 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The most beneficial thing ArbCom can do right now is to refrain from escalating an already fraught situation. Please keep that forefront in your minds whatever else you might do. In my opinion, WJBScribe should be commended for the action that he took. I don't see any good in sanctioning the WMF account. --Tryptofish (talk) 00:09, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Before deciding whether to evaluate WHEEL issues, you may want to consider whether or not you will want to find that WMF violated it. And, just because you can sanction reversals of office actions, does not mean that you must do so. --Tryptofish (talk) 00:27, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I think the Committee should make no decision until after things have settled out some more, but I increasingly feel that your best choice would be to decline the case. I agree with what Sandstein says about that. It looks to me like if you were to poll the community, there are a lot of editors who believe that office actions must not be undone, and that it is sanctionable to have done so, and there are also a lot of editors (including me) who believe that the parties have done the right thing in an unprecedented situation. And no matter how much evidence you might collect in a case, no evidence is ever going to tell you which view is "correct". It's a matter of opinion, not evidence, and a case decision will just be an opinion poll of the active arbs. In a way, the case request is sort-of daring you to find fault, in the expectation of vindication (although I'm not questioning the sincerity of it). Again, all that leaves you with is the opinions of a couple of arbs (and I can facetiously suggest simply asking each of you on your talk pages if anyone really wants to know that). --Tryptofish (talk) 21:06, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

WJBscribe didn't add me as a party, but I probably am. I, too, will happily accept any sanction the en.wiki ArbCom feels is justified for unblocking Fram yesterday. However, in my (completely unbiased!) opinion, no sanction is due either one of us. --Floquenbeam (talk) 00:11, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• @BD2412 and GorillaWarfare: BD's confusion is my fault. I said at VPP I wasn't going to ask for a resysop after my 30 day temporary desysop was up, as long as Fram was blocked. I did, however, ask for the bit back now at WP:BN. That's not quite as hypocritical as it might look at first blush, because (a) Fram isn't blocked (tho he apparently, I guess wisely, still isn't editing), and (b) since this was a request to basically overturn the desysop, I viewed that differently than asking for a resysop after serving my time. (plus, I didn't actually expect to be resysopped....) If, as I expect, I'm eventually desysopped by WMF again, I do not plan to ask for the bit back if Fram's still WMF-blocked. I'm using up my precious 500 word allotment to address minutiae, I know. --Floquenbeam (talk) 12:21, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• If en.wiki ArbCom - Hell, if any one ArbCom member wants me to stop using the tools, just tell me. No need for a motion. I'm under no illusion that I'm going to be a sysop here when the dust settles anyway. But God damn it, it's going to be en.wiki ArbCom that tells me to hang them up. --Floquenbeam (talk) 16:03, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The facts of the matter aren't really in dispute: WJBscribe, Floquenbeam, and Bishonen have all knowingly modified clearly designated Wikimedia Foundation office actions, which is something that has been sanctioned in the past by the Arbitration Committee (e.g. [1]). The Arbitration Committee has jurisdiction to review administrator and bureaucrat conduct with respect to office actions, but no jurisdiction to review the actual office action itself (c.f. WP:ARBPOL#Jurisdiction). The question now is whether it would be prudent for the committee to intervene at this stage in this case – honestly, I don't have a view here yet, but given the complexity of the case I'm thinking the answer will eventually be "yes", though right now may not be the best time to do so to avoid needless inflammation. Mz7 (talk) 00:20, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

It may be a bit premature, but I suggest that the committee take up a single case, and expand it to all of the wheel warring that has occurred since Fram has been banned by the foundation. Suggest this is held for at least a few days as there may be more parties. — xaosflux ^Talk 00:23, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

There needs to be a great meeting that is open and transparent and Arbcom needs to represent the communities interests in this. I think opening a case with respect to this is needed as I think this is a crisis in the making in how this place functions. Hell in a Bucket (talk) 00:28, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

This situation remains too "hot" for a case to start at this time - with daily wheel-warring, there would be a dozen new parties before the evidence phase even ended. I would encourage ArbCom to consider ways to help cool the situation down by motion - possibly including removing tools from some of the parties pending resolution of the eventual case. Since at least some of the admins involved have stated that they don't believe their actions constitute wheel warring, a clarification from the committee on that point (and a statement that future participants will lose the relevant tools) may be helpful.

A full case will eventually be necessary to determine the outcome with respect to Floquenbeam's and Bishonen's sysop bits (who should be added as parties to a consolidated case), WJBscribe's crat bit, any future wheel warriors, and (if the committee feels there's anything to rule on) Fram's own sysop bit, once their office ban ends. ST47 (talk) 00:35, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with xaosflux on this. While I believe that it is, at this time, premature to accept a case, I also think that this will inevitable come to the Committee and allowing it to expand would make sense. I would add that I think that the case should be more expansive than any concerns regarding wheel-warring to include an investigation of the off-wiki harassment of contributors and any other conduct issues that may arise from this incident. As stated by ST47, I also think that the actions of Floq and Bish should be reviewed with an eye towards possible violations of WP:OFFICE and loss of community trust. StudiesWorld (talk) 00:37, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I want to add that contrary to others' claims, office actions are not subject to local policies and therefore, it is impossible for WMFOffice to wheel-war. I would also say that I agree with Rob with respect to desysoping and decratting. StudiesWorld (talk) 10:27, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

With regards to proposals to let Floquenbeam, Bishonen, and WJBscribe off without any action, I think that is an option that ArbCom should consider only if they get binding assurances from these users that they will not use any advanced permissions they have to reverse office actions or ArbCom decisions at any point in the future. If they are not willing to make such an agreement, then they should all be desysoped because we can not trust them to act in this area, as a result of their behavior in this instance. StudiesWorld (talk) 21:40, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Please use this opportunity to review the propriety of the Office actions, starting with the unilateral expansion of their remit to local non-legally necessary imposition of sanctions within the purview of established conduct policy and community processes and removal of advanced permissions; imposition of civility standards without community involvement, review, or approval, with secret trials by secret and unaccountable judges without the right of representation, defense or appeal, on secret evidence submitted by secret accusers; including the issues of "appropriate principles and our established constitutional order" cited by Jimbo;[2] and whether and which such actions are appealable to him.[3] EllenCT (talk) 00:51, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

In connection with the likely scope of this case given arbitrator comments so far, I would like to make sure they are aware of this offer from Fram, inviting "the WMF to provide their evidence to a number of trusted WMF people who have no real reason to defend me, but whom I still trust to be impartial. People like Newyorkbrad, Drmies, Ymblanter, GorillaWarfare, Giant Snowman, ... Let them judge the evidence in private, without sharing it with me; if they agree that a) the evidence is compelling, and b) it couldn't have been handled in public, then so be it." EllenCT (talk) 01:27, 14 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I think there is no way for ArbCom to avoid taking this, and it will be a good opportunity for the committee to affirm its commitment to our collaborative system of editing and our community-driven governance. The resysopping of Floq was, at worst, an excellent use of WP:IAR (with the caveat that there were no rules for this situation, I read IAR as Do the Right Thing), and in my opinion a pretty clear expression of the community's desire to not be ruled by unelected officials who have very important jobs, which sometimes require secrecy, of course--but in this case they completely failed to explicate anything at all to the community. Drmies (talk) 00:50, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

While I appreciate some aspects of IAR, I also appreciate that WMF ultimately has the defacto authority here and we have to weigh IAR against anarchy. We can't have admins and bureaucrats going around making changes. So ARBCOM does need to discuss this. Whatever the reasons for the WMF ban, there needs to be a clear line of authority on who/what/when anything can happen. Also, I hereby rescind my topic ban, and ask that one of the admins modify the log so I can edit the full Wikipedia, in keeping with IAR. Sir Joseph ^(talk) 00:56, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

An argument could be made that a good application of WP:IAR is to enforce the clear and explicit will of the community over the actions of a "random stressed underpaid employee" who tried to pull stunts that Jimbo himself couldn't get away with. I hope that Arbcom will side with the community should a case become necessary. (I suspect that in this case the cooler heads at the WMF will decide that it is in everybody's best interest for them to back down, at least from the Floquenbeam desysop.) ~Awilley (talk) 01:31, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

ArbCom does not have the remit to overturn Office actions, even ill-considered and badly communicated ones. It does have the option to offer leniency to any editors who, in good faith, have stood up against Office actions they felt were illegitimate and damaging to the community. I hope the committee will offer that leniency. 28bytes (talk) 01:52, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Adding: I think the #Statement by Sandstein below gets it right. 28bytes (talk) 16:34, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I shall be brief: the situation remains unresolved. If, however, the Committee does choose to take this up, I ask they examine the totality of the circumstances; and ultimately reach a just conclusion. —Javert2113 (Siarad.|¤) 01:57, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

There has already been some discussion of the fact that WMF's statement with respect to the desysop of Floquenbeam is somewhat ambiguous. It is arguable that it does not specifically forbid a 'crat here from restoring that bit, so long as Floquenbeam did not request this (which they did not). It says with respect to the period of the removal that the community "may decide on the request at that time", but it doesn't say what should happen if there is no request, or if the community (or a 'crat) decides to enforce Wikipedia policies by restoring rights previous to that time. bd2412 T 03:57, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• Per GorillaWarfare's comment, I had not realized that this was requested (I suppose due to Floquenbeam's talk page post indicating that they did not want the bit back). I agree with their rationale for making the request. There is still no express language prohibiting a 'crat here from restoring the bit, so any case against WJBscribe should be moot. bd2412 T 04:19, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Let's see what the Office does in response to this egregious abuse of the bureaucrat toolkit, but I urge the Committee to accept this request even if the Office de-crats WJBscribe for a few reasons. First, and most importantly, WJBscribe's action to revert an office action is egregious abuse of tools. It violates the Terms of Use. It should come with not only de-crat but also de-admin, as this is conduct severely unbecoming. Further, ArbCom should evaluate whether the desysops of Floq, Bishonen (pending, but sure to come), and WJBscribe (if you address that question) are under a cloud and require an additional RfA under existing policy. In particular, would you have desysopped for reverting an office action if the office had not taken further office actions? If so, then the loss of adminship should be considered "under a cloud". ~ Rob₁₃^Talk 04:08, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• @AGK: Why is this named for one editor when the scope of the underlying dispute is so much larger? Wouldn't "Reversed office actions" or something of the like be better? ~ Rob₁₃^Talk 12:05, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• This has officially been punted to ArbCom by the office. The fundamental question is whether it should be okay for administrators to revert office actions and wheel war with impunity. If the answer is yes, give me back the bit; I'll re-block Fram myself. ~ Rob₁₃^Talk 22:11, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• @Robert McClenon: What you say is partially false. The Committee could not, within scope, examine a dispute with the WMF. That much is correct. But the aspect of this dispute that is within scope is administrative/bureaucrat misconduct, which undoing an office action absolutely is. The Arbitration Committee is explicitly tasked with considering requests for removal of tools based on misconduct, and Floquenbeam, Bishonen, and now WJBscribe have all engaged in severe misconduct. ~ Rob₁₃^Talk 03:51, 14 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• Points to Gamaliel for the most spot-on and concise bit of insight that has emerged out of this entire mess. ~ Rob₁₃^Talk 16:54, 14 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

It doesn't matter how much they disagree with the Office action over Fram. Knowingly and deliberately reversing an Office action is a flagrant abuse of the bureaucrat toolkit by WJBscribe and administrator toolkit by Floquenbeam and Bishonen. Being popular, or making a popular decision doesn't make it right or okay. Everyone involved knew their actions is a violation of policy / against Foundation enforcement of the ToU. That's why it was done. To make a public stand. Well great, you got the plaudits, now suffer the associated consequences. -- KTC (talk) 07:15, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

There is no question or dispute over the actions involved in this case. There is little or no dispute over what the applicable policies are in this case. Thus the central issue is that the named editors (including Floq, who I agree should be named as a party) assert the necessity and justness of their actions despite existing policy.

The situation precipitating these actions is also hugely controversial, still emerging, still hovering between escalation annd deescalation, and with potentially massive and unpredictable long-term consequences. The discussion—despite valiant efforts by some to centralize and structure them—is also spread out over who knows how many noticeboards, project and user talk pages, and even across projects.

For these reasons I believe it is too soon for ArbCom to deal with the actual issue here; ArbCom will have to deal with one or more cases springing from this eventually, but the "fog of war" makes that impossible right now. There are also big questions about what ArbCom's effective remit will be in the locus of those cases when we get to them. I also believe that ArbCom can't simply ignore this issue (decline the case): doing so would in practical effect contribute to the chaos and risk contributing (unintentionally) to further escalation in an already fraught situation.

I would therefore urge the comittee to consider resolving this by motion, and that the motion that will best serve the community in this case is to employ, in effect, jury nullification (CGP Grey explainer video, 4:30). There is no real dispute about the actions or the applicable policy: but to implement a remedy based on that policy right now would be "unjust" (it would offend the sense of justice of the vast majority of the community), and would put ArbCom in an impossible situation. Resolve by motion that the named parties all violated policies in various ways, but that ArbCom will enact no remedies under the current circumstances.

Once this mess shakes out and it becomes possible for anyone to get any kind of perspective on it, that calculus will be entirely different. --Xover (talk) 07:42, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@WTT & Callanecc, are case requests now venues for discussion? I don't understand. As a RFAR, the request is asking the committee to resolve a dispute, not saying "hey here's a problem, let's discuss it in this structured venue". This also seems distinct from any extra information, board meetings or anything like that; it's simply a question of whether WJB stepped out of bounds by reinstating Floq's admin tools knowing what he did at the time. Banedon (talk) 07:59, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Clearly the remit here for Arbcom is not simply to make a statement about WJBscribe's actions, or to limit themselves to sanctioning WJBscribe when they are unable to sanction WMF employees acting anonymously as "WMF Office", even when blatantly wheel warring.

Arbcom is in the dock here, Arbcom has failed the Wikipedia community by failing to maintain a positive relationship with the WMF and contacts within WMF T&S. If Arbcom had not failed to fulfil its role on this project, then WMF T&S would trust Arbcom with the claims of harassment or bullying that underpin WJBscribe's actions.

More fundamentally Arbcom must restore the Wikipedia and wider Wikimedia community's trust by considering motions that:

1. Confirm and detail Arbcom's role in active improvement of the implementation of Wikipedia's value expressed in WP:5P4 Wikipedia's editors should treat each other with respect and civility
2. State in plain English exactly how the relationship between WMF T&S (esp. use of the WMF Office role account) and Arbcom must work so that the WMF Office role account only ever needs to act in extreme and exceptional cases
3. Take responsibility for the sanctions on Fram's account and negotiate with WMF T&S to ensure that all the evidence can be reviewed and safely held by Arbcom

Lastly much has been made of the evidence that the WMF provided this "Fuck Arbcom" diff to justify their ban of Fram's account for abusive conduct. If Arbcom accepts that such vulgar conduct, in particular by an administrator, is unacceptable for this project, then this threshold for bans and sanctions for abuse or bullying should apply equally for everyone, including Administrators, Arbcom members and WMF Trustees such as notorious potty mouth and unelected Arbcom member Jimmy Wales:

• diff ... if you tell people to "fuck off" you should be blocked for it immediately, and banned if you continue
• diff Utter fucking bullshit
• diff ... telling them to fuck off is not nearly as satisfying as maintaining a good sense of humor while making them fuck off

--Fæ (talk) 05:47, 14 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think this needs a full case as the facts are not in doubt: Floquenbeam, Bishonen and WJBscribe all used advanced privileges to overturn an office action, something that is explicitly prohibited in policy. The only reasonable response to this is to remove all their advanced privileges. These not to be returned without a new RFA, to be held after the dust has settled. The merits or otherwise of the Office actions are irrelevant, and even if they weren't they are explicitly outside the remit of the committee to investigate.

The questions regarding civility and its enforcement are completely separate and should not be conflated with the necessary removal of privileges. Thryduulf (talk) 08:58, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• @Dank: Whatever else you might think of Jimmy's statement, it is long-established that any block/ban or almost* any ArbCom sanction/lack of sanction can be appealed to him (at least in relation to en.wp, I'm uncertain about other projects). He doesn't always accept the appeal, and in practice he has never overturned an ArbCom decision, and it's been a very long time since he overturned a block or ban, but he does have the power to do so. (*Jimmy's actions can be appealed to ArbCom, but such appeals may not then be appealed to Jimmy). Whether he holds this power regarding the office is undefined, but ultimately the board (of which is a member) has the final say over the Foundation of which the office is a part. Thryduulf (talk) 14:39, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• @SmokeyJoe: WJBscribe most certainly did not act "for the community" - at most he acted for his interpretation of what a vocal sub-set of the community were demanding; he acted directly contrary to the wishes of another, equally important, part of the community (including me) and completely ignored that the vast majority of the community have not commented. You are correct that it was a political statement, but political statements are very nearly the last thing we elect 'crats to make. Thryduulf (talk) 00:27, 14 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

In my opinion, the best thing to do is just for ArbCom to accept the case and look at the WMF account’s actions along with the whole Fram drama. I’m just here to give a recommendation, and I’m probably wrong, but hey, this is a great chance to get ArbCom to review the whole incident and get a better sum-up and conclusion than the WMF’s crap responses. Oshawott 12 ==()== Talk to me! 09:27, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• What Drmies states.
• @Rob:- Did T&S inform you anything about the (supposedly pending) de-sysop of Bishonen? You seem to be quite certain .... ∯WBG^converse 09:25, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

If I were ArbCom I would be staying well away from taking any action on anything here at the moment, until more clarity on the entire situation is provided. As it is we have a situation akin to playing chess against an opponent which randomly moves the pieces around the board occasionally, and says "I can't tell you why I did that, but I can ensure you I had a full discussion with myself before I did it". Black Kite (talk) 09:30, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

There is no reason for this resysop action to be brought before ArbCom, especially not by the performer; if an admin or bureaucrat wants a review of their admin/crat action, the venue for that is AN or BN. I would therefore advise ArbCom to decline this case, since this is not what ArbCom is for (vanity review of admin/crat actions, submitted by the performer). If WMFOffice wants to take any action regarding the resysop, they can do so. If editors beyond the admin/crat in question have a major problem with an admin/crat action, they can file an ArbCom case, as a complainant, after review in the appropriate venue(s) (review as in polling of "Endorse" or "Overturn"). As it is, this case request seems to be out-of-process, unnecessary, and lacking any of the requisite pre-venue resolutions/reviews/polls. ArbCom doesn't do "review/scrutiny". That's what AN and BN are for. Softlavender (talk) 09:56, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

ArbCom also does not do "test cases" or "statement cases". If ArbCom wants to make a statement, it makes a statement. It does not accept cases under the pretext that doing so will allow it to make a statement. Softlavender (talk)

I'm not sure that anything need be done at least until after the board meeting when we will know where (presumably) the WMF stands on the desysops/resysops. WJBscribe did the correct thing bringing this hear, but the biggest concern should be with de-escalation, not re-escalation, which further such actions including blocks and bans would only encourage.

If a case is still felt necessary after that, it should be brought and heard as a form of truth and reconciliation commission, coming to Xover's conclusion by motion. This is the one result that would truly de-escalate tension—a reversion to the status quo ante bellum.

Punishments may be deserved by the letter of the "law", but would actively pour fuel on the fire as far as broader community dissatisfaction goes.

• @BU Rob13: pending but sure to come: wishing for it does not make it so. JW commented that further wheel warring will not be productive...I am recommending the same to WMF, so perhaps calmer heads have prevailed. We shall see, of course.
• Thruuydulf's / KTC's suggestion lacks nuance, to say the least, although it would certainly be successful at the fuel + fire interface. The latter also is unnecessarily aggressive and seems indeed to preempt these proceedings.
• IAR is fundamental. The encyclopedia was not improved by the office's original action; it has been improved by subsequent reversals. That is the bottom line. And I don't particularly buy the argument that the WMF is the highest authority here except in regard to extremely narrow areas of legal (and possibly political) consequence. As far as en.wp is / should be concerned, the WMF are the caretakers of the building in which the encyclopedia is written, and perhaps, keep us in paper...
  ——SerialNumber54129 10:07, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• Re. Ivanvector' diffs regarding WP:BN: in short, no. We can hardly be seen sanctioning an admin for upholding WP:NPA in the middle of a case dealing with aspects of civility. The irony would be supreme, f not the profitability. ——SerialNumber54129 11:40, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• @Ivanvector, quite. I don't necessarlly disagree with your principle (and as I said in my OP, I don't want any more blocks/desysops/resignations over this, so we certainy agree on that); but I also note that—perhaps with a certain logic—the most vocal admins in this dispute—those most likely to put on the spidey suit—are also the most active layer of the administura we have. The action you propose would leave us with arbcom and a few legacy admins. ——SerialNumber54129 11:59, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• Excellent point by Alanscottwalker—viz, that one of the parties is untouchable by any sanction or recommendation that Arbcom could issue, and perhaps emphasises the degree to which any case would be a vacuous execise. ——SerialNumber54129 13:56, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I'm going to go against the majority so far and suggest that ArbCom should refuse to have anything to do with this whole affair. WMF chose to exert their superior power and override ArbCom's remit in dealing with English Wikipedia behavioral issues, and I think that's the way you should leave it - they made the bed. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 10:09, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Ivanvector: Well, I for one have chosen to not take any administrator actions at all for the duration of this dispute, and I would at least urge everyone to avoid all admin or crat actions in anything directly related to it while the situation is so inflamed. There's nothing so badly wrong right now that can't wait a little while to be resolved. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 12:06, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

To expand on my first thoughts, I would suggest ArbCom should at least wait until the board had met and has tried to sort out the mess together with WMF, before voting to start yet another process to examine it all before we're sure we have all the available facts. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 12:10, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I urge ArbCom not to get involved in the issue of de- and re-sysopping the administrators in question. In my opinion, none of them have lost the faith of the community; all of them should get their admin bit back if they've lost it automatically on request to a bureaucrat (this includes Fram); and there is need for neither an RfA nor an ArbCom ruling. Reyk _YO! 10:21, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I wasn't going to participate in this at all given my separate protest, but just moments ago we've had an administrator in the anti-WMF camp threaten another admin with a block over this incident ([4]). I think it would be a good idea at this point for Arbcom to temporarily remove the advanced privileges of everyone involved in this dispute as a cautionary measure, before someone does something incredibly stupid and tips off another war of escalation. Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 11:33, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Courtesy ping Future Perfect at Sunrise, Thryduulf, Beyond My Ken. Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 11:34, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Oops, that was Boing! said Zebedee, not BMK. Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 11:41, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• @SN54129: whether or not I agree with the basis of FP's threat or the principle they're claiming to uphold, the point I'm trying to make is that I'm certainly not going to take action against anyone that's participating in this, no matter how egregious their abuse, because I don't know who's going to be the next to decide to be the Great Defender Of The Wiki and overturn my block or decide I need to be blocked because of their unique interpretation of ignoring the rules. There's already a parade of admins turning in their bits at BN. The grandstanding is doing real damage to the project, on many fronts. The WMF has seriously fucked up here, but each threat, each block, and each rogue admin action makes matters worse, not better. Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 11:53, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• Partially in response to Amakuru's statement I have struck my recommendation to (paraphrasing) desysop everyone. Of course that's not helpful. Let me replace that with: "I think it would be a good idea for everyone involved to remain calm, and remember that we're not each other's enemies." To borrow Opabinia regalis' analogy, the WMF lit the match, but we're the ones dumping gasoline on this dumpster fire.

Directly to the case request: I enourage the Committee to accept, but only after we receive some kind of response following the Board meeting scheduled tomorrow, and then limited in scope to only English Wikipedia's community policies with respect to adminship and bureaucratship. To my mind, the Committee has no authority to place, nor modify, nor enforce Office actions. Let the WMF clean up their own mess and block/ban who they want to, but once that's settled, there are issues to deal with locally. Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 14:43, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

My advice would be to to wait a few days and see what happens and where community discussions (and the WMF Board meeting) go. In the meantime, try and come up with a sensible collective statement from ArbCom to help people understand your role (or lack of a role) in what is happening here, maybe on the whole matter, or maybe narrowly focused on your responsibilities. Try and help the English Wikipedia community and the WMF work out a way through this. Try to limit the damage being done. Don't limit discussion (here or elsewhere), but do try to set some boundaries for civil discussion. (As a small point of order, naming and notifying a role account may not actually reach the people operating that role account i.e. has someone emailed the email address listed at User:WMFOffice, and are those posting at User talk:WMFOffice actually expecting a reply?). Has a role account ever been named in an arbitration case request before? Carcharoth (talk) 11:54, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Personally I'm with Boing on this - WMF chose to ignore all processes we have and simply do things their way ..... so as such I feel this case should be declined, That being said if a case is really desired then I would suggest waiting after the meeting,

I also thank WJB for coming here although ofcourse they didn't have to. –Davey2010^Talk 11:54, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The origin point of everything that has occurred here is the messaging (or lack thereof) by WMF. The board meeting on June 14th is expected to provide to the community some clarity to an incident that badly needs clarification. Until then, ArbCom should remain in a holding pattern.--WaltCip (talk) 12:29, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Several points here:

• First of all, I am definitely in sympathy with Fram because, based on the evidence available so far, their block was an unwarranted office action in an area where it is not sensible IMHO for the office to act. Based on the evidence, of course. There may be things we do'nt know about that affected the decision, in which case perhaps it was justified after all.
• That said, though, the office is God for us since they own the servers, and reversing their actions just isn't permitted. We all signed up to their basic rules when we opened our accounts and that still holds even if we disapprove of what they do. So speaking personally I would never have taken the actions that Floq, Bish or WjbScribe took. I don't think they particularly advance the situation re Fram's access and cause a lot of distraction and drama.
• On this specific case request, I urge Arbcom to decline this. I don't see much that they can add to the situation since this a dispute between the office (which operates on a higher pay-grade than Arbcom), and rank-and-file admins/crats. This may or may not be a good analogy as my knowledge of the US constitution is not complete, but I'd think if an individual is in dispute with the federal government, you wouldn't expect a state court to intervene in that dispute one way or the other. Similarly, if the office want to act against WjbScribe or Floq (again) that's up to them. ArbCom has neither the information to judge the original ban, nor the authority to override the office.
• Finally, on Ivanvector's suggestion that "I think it would be a good idea at this point for Arbcom to temporarily remove the advanced privileges of everyone involved in this dispute as a cautionary measure" - I can't imagine anything more likely to escalate the situation than that. Who would fall under this mass action? Anyone who's expressed sympathy for Fram? When calm is called for, it is best if *everyone* is calm. The board meeting is tomorrow and I hope this matter will be resolved one way or the other before too long. Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 13:02, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  @Ivanvector: thank you for the modification of your statement. I certainly agree with your what you've said in your update about calming down. Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 20:17, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I'm with Boing! said Zebedee and a few others who have asked that this case be declined. It's possible that something might come up tomorrow that makes it unnecessary or, hopefully less likely, might lead me to change my mind, but I'm not convinced that taking this case will benefit the English Wikipedia. I understand the arguments about the ToS, etc, and as an Arb I was almost always willing to accept caess of Admin misconduct. But this is different. It's an extraordinary, unprecedented situation. Although I disagree with User:Drmies about accepting this case, I agree with his comment on IAR meaning "Do the Right Thing". Not taking this case will not result in anarchy or Admins Gone Wild - I don't think that any Admin will see what's happened this week as a precedent for doing what they like. And if they do, they'd be wrong and should expect the consequences. I'm not arguing that the WMF was wrong - or right - but that I've seen some excellent editors and Admins acting as their conscience dictated, not for personal reasons but for the good of the encyclopedia. We should cherish that, not punish it. Leave this to the community (and I guess inevitably to the WMF if they continue to sanction). Doug Weller talk 13:32, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The WMF has wisely decided not to take any further action against the participants in this case. If it is correct that they broke the ToS, then the WMF has decided to ignore that. Given that, I can see no positive gain from ArbCom deciding to discipline them and still believe that the case should be declined. At the most it might pass a motion noting that this has been a very serious clusterfuck and that the Committee expects all participants to avoid such actions in the future. Of course the Committee could also recommend various courses of action for the community to embark upon, but my 4 years on the Committee suggests that doesn't often pan out. Doug Weller talk 07:25, 14 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

If any case is to be opened, this needs to be—at the earliest—after the next WMF meeting (tomorrow, I believe?) Depending on what the outcome is there, a further delay may be worth considering to ensure this isn't discussed while the firestorm rages elsewhere.

I am not sure (at present) that sanction is due against any party: the decision on who holds sysop powers lies with the community, not the WMF. They have attempted a power grab on spurious grounds without any conversation with the people on the ground. If there had been agreed steps and guidelines agreed beforehand, it may be a different as our own guidelines would have been altered to reflect what to do in the event of their desysopping an administrator here: the thread at the BN where 'crats and admins all scratched their heads and wondered about things shows just how poorly the implication of the WMF's power extension was communicated to the community. - SchroCat (talk) 13:36, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• In the recent statement from Jan Eissfeldt, Lead Manager of Trust & Safety (which can be summed up with a polite "fuck you, en.WP: we own the servers and we'll squash anyone we want without showing them evidence, without letting them defend themselves and without any appeals procedure"—I hate to make Godwin's law like parallels, but really...?) Jan Eissfeldt stated that "In acknowledgement of the confusion caused by the application of this newer type of ban, we will not be issuing sanctions against or desysopping those who edited the block or the sysop rights of those who edited the block to date". If the WMF are prepared to replace some actions of ArbCom as the final executioner of editors, then their remit on not punishing people involved in the same events should be equally applicable. That Eissfeldt acknowledges that the whole clusterfuck is their fault should be enough notification to the Arbs that this isn't a case that should be held, or we get into a double jeopardy situation even more than we are already. (That's not to say the whole situation stinks of COI and influence, but that's outside the remit of this discussion. - SchroCat (talk) 07:37, 14 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• (ps. We may need to change the note at the top of the page: "Arbitration is a last resort" is no longer the case).

So, this is how it goes: something happens; before seemingly even reading any policy or guideline or bothering to relate what we can read, we seemingly start yelling; we don't contact the people involved, even though such could have been found, nor say what we could easily find; we name conspiracy theories, call out claimed personal peccadilloes, and assume bad faith, and we make it abundantly clear that whatever the response is, we will not accept it. Into this you get tool wielders climbing the ramparts to throw themselves off. It is no wonder why reasonable people might say this project demonstrates incapability. (Nor is it any secret to honest pedians that from time to time, we demonstrate incapability).

For the future, Arbcom immediately issue a temporary injunction so people don't throw themselves off the ramparts while everyone should just be gathering information and thinking. And you can either decline this case without prejudice (it seems it's not really well framed in the least, beginning with a party over which there is no jurisdiction) or now hold, and yes invite everyone on the pedia to come here and say their piece, to contain it. Alanscottwalker (talk) 13:45, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Jimmy's statement here is extraordinary ... in a clear context of T & S bans, he's saying that it's long-established that he can overturn bans, and that he's willing to fall on his sword to do so. This completely undercuts arguments on this page and elsewhere that there's no point in even discussing things here (and I don't know Jimmy from Adam, but I suspect that was his goal, to enable moderate ... and moderated! ... discussion). T & S may outrank us, but Jimmy's position is that, in exceptional circumstances, he outranks them in some sense (or maybe he's just confident that he can out-persuade the Board). So, yes, until and unless Jimmy changes his mind, discussion leading to a case, and even a case itself, may be beneficial. Calm discussion would certainly be more beneficial than the likely alternatives. - Dank (push to talk) 14:21, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Thryduulf: What's extraordinary is that he made the statement immediately, and in a context where he has to mean the T & S ban, rather than bans in general ... he's clearly considering his options here. So, while Arbcom may want to decline the case because their hands are partially tied, it's demonstrably false to say (as some are saying) that a case would be "pointless". Ultimately unsuccessful, maybe, but it's not pointless to give parties on all sides the opportunity to talk rather than waving (or falling on) swords, and the talking wouldn't be pointless ... there's a lot Arbcom can do, and Jimmy may be able and willing to do some of the things they can't do. - Dank (push to talk) 17:49, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I urge the committee to accept this case after the June 14 meeting and follow it through for the following reasons: the en-WP project's content creation and its maintenance is volunteer-driven. The best interest of this project can be served and sustained only if the necessary rights and responsibilities of editors and admins are maintained or revoked through a consensus process. Rob and a few others remind us of the TOU, but every person with love and bits for this project derives her or his just privileges from the consent of the volunteer community. If and when any person or unelected Office appears to act against these interests of this project, it is the right of the community to question it, protest about it, act on it, and so alter it.

The committee is our elected group. They are qualified and trusted to review difficult cases, institute procedures, and adopt appropriate motions. That includes cases of alleged hostility and harassment in wikipedia, with or without alleged egregious and disruptive editing.

A large section of the en-WP community is clearly upset with this extraordinary WMFOffice action on Fram who has been one of en-WP's gadfly, plus the actions on Floq, the resignations and the rest. The issues here: "what processes were followed, were they fair and just, are our standard processes not capable of handling such cases, was there any undue favoritism or undue cruelty shown in this case to either side because of any direct access to the members of WMFOffice, are there checks and balances against the WMFOffice to help the interests of the project, what must be done in this case, what must be done in future cases, why or why not". A review and scrutiny of the facts and decisions in this case, at an appropriate time, will help the project and heal the en-WP community. Thank you, Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 14:42, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I was off-wiki for a couple of days so apologies if my understanding of the situation is incorrect but here's what I've figured out. Fram was blocked, banned and desysopped for unexplained reasons by an "office action" on the part of WMF. Floq unblocked Fram and was desysopped under the same office action. WJBScribe restored Floq's admin bits with the reasoning that neither the community nor arbcom were involved in the desysopping of Floq. The nub of this situation appears to be that we, as a community, are unclear about where our own role (whether as a community or through arbcom) in managing en-wiki ends and where that of WMFoffice begins. Unfortunately, this is just another website and, like all websites, it comes along with its "Terms of Service". Regardless of what happens to Fram, Floq, or WJBScribe, whether we want to contribute to this site or not should depend on an understanding of the implications of our agreeing to these terms of service and ArbCom should accept this case only for the purpose of bring clarity to that. In particular, it would be good to get answers to the following questions. Do we accept that WMFOffice can desysop admins in cases that can be handled on-wiki (like Floq's desysopping)? Should WMFOffice consult with ArbCom or the community (sharing whatever information they can reasonably share) before taking unilateral action against an editor (as in the case of Fram)? These, I believe, are reasonable questions and, to the extent that the committee works for the community, it should take this case to seek answers to them, leaving the status quo (Floq resysopped, WJBScribe a bureaucrat, Fram unblocked but still banned pending explanation from the foundation) in place. --regentspark (comment) 14:49, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Recommend decline. Perhaps there can be an Arb case if it's needed once we see how the WMF act after the board meeting. Am just going to state my opinion that the resysop was un-cratly, there was no pressing need not to wait the 30 days. It's fine for admins to take strong positions if they feel the need, but a crat should stay above the fray. Or if they have a strong view, express it and rescuse from crat actions. This wasnt a simple case of WMF v the community. For some, the key opposition is that between the powerful enforcement crew v the much more numerous but relatively powerless non drama board community, who in some cases can feel harassed by powerful admins and their supporters. (Even if those admins are good faith, and sincerely trying to protect the encyclopaedia.) A crat should avoid taking un-needed actions in such an emotive situation. That said, it's just one mistake, no need for sanctions againt WJBscribe IMO. FeydHuxtable (talk)

I would like to echo and expand upon what xaosflux and others, including Arbitrators, have suggested, namely to consider the broader Sturm und Drang around tool use, but in due time. It is incredibly likely that ArbCom will have some role in the outcome — especially because doing so is likely to be more acceptable to all parties — and it would be best to do so after more of the play has unfolded, at least as far as advanced tool use is concerned. Portions of the storm seems to be calming somewhat, and while it's nigh time to process cleanup, it has not yet passed. ~ Amory (u • t • c) 15:56, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

ArbCom should take no action here. It exists to resolve disputes among editors. This dispute, however, is between editors and the WMF Office, which is not subject to ArbCom's authority. A case would therefore be pointless because it cannot result in (effective) sanctions against the WMF Office.

Nor should ArbCom take a case to consider sanctions against the users who have undone actions of the WMF Office. That's because the WMF Office has the ability, as events have shown, to sanction such conduct by itself. (By which, to be clear, I'm not suggesting that the WMF Office should impose any more such sanctions. Doing so would compound the apparent grave errors the WMF Office has committed so far.)

The dispute can only be effectively resolved by the body with the authority to make the WMF Office comply with this community's expectations regarding dispute resolution. That body is the WMF Board of Trustees. Users should make their expectations in this matter clear to the members of the Board, primarily the community representatives. I intend to do so. Sandstein 16:22, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I'm going to suggest that ArbCom postpone any decision on taking this case for a week or so. I honestly don't think that there's any urgency needed in reviewing the actions of the players so far. It may well be that some sort of compromise solution might render any such review moot.

On that point, I will ask ArbCom to consider a suggestion from me that they are going to have to be part of any long-term solution. Hopefully you've already reached that conclusion and are already engaged with T&S in looking at ways of improving procedures so that we minimise the chance for this sort of crisis to recur.

If it's any help, my view is that T&S missed the opportunity to involve you more closely when they issued warnings and an i-ban. If T&S had involved you more at that point, it may even have been possible for the warnings and i-ban to have been issued in the name of ArbCom, and given the community a sense of ownership of any sanctions. Similarly, if T&S had presented their case for a site ban to you in confidence, you may well have been able to take over that case and reached a conclusion, likely in camera, and issued a ArbCom sanction that was appealable with conditions you set. I'm not suggesting that T&S need to involve you in dealing with paedophiles and on legal issues – those "extraordinary circumstances" that we understand must remain the remit of WMF – but for something that normally would be dealt with by ArbCom, I'm sure both you and T&S appreciate the necessity and good sense in working closely together. --RexxS (talk) 18:29, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

If we refer specifically to WP:TOOLMISUSE, it does not appear to mention the reversal of office actions as a misuse of administrative tools, however, it does say that it is a possible indication of an incipient wheel war. It's not even listed as a special situation. Pending the outcome of the meeting on 14th June, maybe it's time that the policy is updated to reflect that a reversal of office action counts as tool misuse. This way we will not have so much uncertainty about whether the actions of the administrators and bureaucrat count as a misuse of tools.

Also, based on the behavior of the office team in this investigation, maybe it's time the WP:OFFICE General Information section is reviewed too. It appears that the "Office actions are transparent when possible, but safety (and legal compliance) comes first." section did not apply in this case? There was no safety or legal compliance to worry about, so why was this not transparent? Also per WP:OFFICE, they were also requested to provide details of the internal processes followed to enforce the office action, but I am not sure we saw sight of those by the office, only via members of the ArbCom team. Agent00x (talk) 18:56, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I've been looking at this discussion since it began without commenting to see how this would play out. Now that a lot has, it's clear that there's only one solution and I hope arbitrators seriously consider what I'm saying. The only logical choice to make here, outside of inaction, is the following:

• Desysop Floquenbeam and Bishonen for thirty days, for reversing an office action minus time served for Floquenbeam (since that was the benchmark the Foundation previously used in deciding Floquenbeam's desysop)
• Desysop and decrat WJBscribe for thirty days, for reversing an office action.
• Reinstate the ban of Fram, minus time served, until the issue is discussed and resolved however the outcome.

Office actions have always been subject to not going through the normal community processes (it says it plainly in the nutshell at Wikipedia:Office actions) and have always been subject to no appeal option. This didn't bother anyone until it affected an unblockable user. While more transparency from the Foundation is needed, they have office hours and are not readily able to chit-chat or disclose all the information you seek right away. Multiple people are looking into it, and resolving the issue can take time. That isn't the problem. The problem is the community having no patience. And again, you can have community consensus, but the Foundation is going to act regardless and not even ArbCom is above them. This lack of patience, however, has resulted in misuses of the administrator and bureaucrat tools. The only person I think has had any tact in this situation has actually been Fram. Floquenbeam, Bishonen and WJBscribe: I want you to know I have no problems with you personally and think you do fine around Wikipedia, and my suggestions above are not reflective of that. However I feel like you all stepped beyond the line willingly, especially you WJBscribe, knowing there would be consequences. It wouldn't surprise me if some of the community (clearly not everyone) loses a little trust in your actions.

But let me make one thing perfectly clear, this whole fiasco was self-inflicted. The reason the Foundation side-stepped ArbCom is because they believed this community isn't able to reach these conclusions on their own and decided it for you. The misuse of tools only proved that, if anything. Unless you want the Foundation to continue to side-step ArbCom, then all of you need to follow the policies as written and act accordingly (and yes, I mean civility as well). If you don't, then prepare to be trampled upon. If ArbCom doesn't act here, whether in a case or a motion, then I can only think the gap of trust widens between you and the Foundation. — Moe Epsilon 20:17, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I concur that overriding WMF Office is outside the purview of ArbCom. WMF owns the servers; it's their house, their TOS, and if someone sued, they'd have to pay the lawyers. That said, WMF has an obligation to be as transparent as law and policy allows. So if something is opened up, I think it is an opportunity to create a crystal-clear understanding of where the line between ArbCom and the WMF is drawn.

I concur with BU Rob13 that the failure of the community to rein in Fram is one reason WMF got involved in the first place. Fram should have been subjected to disciplinary actions (and probably a few blocks) for his incivility years ago. Just because Fram might have been technically correct was not carte blanche to be a jerk; and no one seems to disagree that at times his behavior went far beyond the pale. Similarly, just because some of us are able to meet Fram head-on and slug it out in the rough-and-tumble of the WP talkpage universe doesn't mean everyone should have to.

As for Floq and Bish, they each deliberately chose to exercise civil disobedience by reversing an office action, and they knew that going in. For that reason, they don't need to be exempted from appropriate penalties, and both of them no doubt are big kids who are ready for that. But I think a bit of leniency is appropriate. A de-sysop for this single action is too much; but restrictions of some sort are needed as a reminder to all to keep cool. Once they have taken their medicine, everyone needs to move on.

Wikipedia needs to modify its consensus model—"consensus" too often reflects the views of a loud, aggressive minority who drown out all other voices. Also, people bothering the alleged victim off-wiki have crossed the line, which can carry real-life penalties.

Yes it can get frustrating to deal with certain problematic styles of editing. But incessantly hounding until people feel they have to contact the WMF is not the way to fix things. If Fram received civility warnings prior to this block, he should have taken them to heart and figured out a different way to get his point across.

en.wiki also has problem with sexism and intolerance. It is not only male-dominated, it is also infected by the "brotopia" culture. I don't think it's entirely deliberate—For some individuals, I think they are simply clueless, but others have biases they refuse to examine.

The WMF has the right to enforce their TOS, and an obligation to investigate complaints. But, it is reasonable to call them to account for that ham-handedness. They should make their actions as clear as law and policy allows, in part to educate the community about how to avoid similar sanctions in the future. Montanabw^(talk) 20:19, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Since they were introduced in 2006, it has not been acceptable for a Wikipedia administrator or bureaucrat to reverse an office action. This applies to any office action, regardless of how the individual or even the community feels about it. Furthermore, one of the best practice of being an admin is to not use the tools in tense situations when action is not needed. It has always been the expectation that admins and bureaucrats maintain a level head and take reasoned responses.

We have a situation where three advanced rights holders have violated all of these policies and practices. And for absolutely no reason. The ban happened Monday, and the first unblock happened the day after. The second unblock the day after that. We're now four days out -- the board hasn't even met, and there has barely been enough time for the bureaucratic machine of the Foundation to issue a full response. Quite simply, nothing that happened here needed to happen in the timeframe that it happened.

Because of that, there needs to be some accountability for the users that made an active decision to violate these policies and practices. I don't think that it should happen right away, because like with the Fram ban, there is nothing urgent here. But I would ask that the Committee at least accept this case. This is an incredibly unfortunate event that has reflected poorly on all sides. -- Ajraddatz (talk) 21:06, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I do not think the arbitration committee should take this case as the WMF has clearly stated it will not be taking action against these individuals. Yes, what they did was wrong. I'm not excusing their behavior. I just don't feel there is a need to discuss this at Arb Com. In cases like this, it is the WMF that has the authority to issue sanctions. Since they have chosen not to go forward with them, I see no reason to discuss the matter. Noah^Talk 21:24, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

There is a crisis of confidence. There is a crisis of trust. There are questions of scope, ArbCom and WMF. The most trusted people at en.wikipedia are the bureaucrats, including User:WJBscribe. WJBscribe's action was not an abuse, but a precisely crafted political statement. It was done in the interests of the project, and it spoke for the community.

The committee should act calmly, and logically, with a view to what's best for collegiality, community confidence, and the project. A sensible statement might suffice.

First, User:Sandstein is entirely correct that this is not a case that is within the scope of ArbCom. The ArbCom was set up by the WMF to deal with disputes between editors that the community cannot solve. It was not set up by the WMF to deal with disputes between the community and the WMF. ArbCom cannot open a case involving any of the issues about sanctions on User:Fram or any action taken with regard to any other administrator.

Second, User:Montanabw is correct that the English Wikipedia does not have an effective governance process. The WMF has sent a two-part message. First, the WMF has no confidence in the ArbCom. The ArbCom should have been the forum that dealt with issues involving conduct by an administrator, but the WMF found it necessary to take action without asking or involving the ArbCom. That was a finding of no confidence in the ArbCom. I do not know whether the WMF was right in that judgment. My guess, unfortunately, is that the WMF was right in ignoring the ArbCom. Second, the WMF recognizes that the English Wikipedia community is not governing itself effectively, either via the ArbCom or via the "community" process. The English Wikipedia is able to deal effectively with trolls, vandals, flamers, and other editors who are not here to contribute to the encyclopedia. It does not deal effectively with harassment, misogyny, bullying, persistent POV-pushing, or intractable content disputes involving reliability of sources. The English Wikipedia has not been able to manage its own disputes, and the WMF has had to reassert control. Any effort by ArbCom at this point to open a case would be too little and too late, and would interfere with solving the greater problem of which this is a symptom, the lack of a governance process.

The current governance of the English Wikipedia has not changed much since 2006, consisting of the ArbCom, the "community" process, which, as User:Montanabw notes, is too often simply the loudest editors, and the WMF exercising reserve powers. This governance model did not include any effective mechanism for its own evolution or for orderly change or growth. Changes, such as the biographies of living persons policy, and the Terms of Use, have been mostly instituted by the WMF. The current events illustrate that the governance model of the English Wikipedia needs to be reformed.

Third, at this point, the arbitrators have a choice as individuals, which is whether to follow User:BU Rob13 and resign, either in protest, or as recognition that ArbCom is not effective, or for any other reason, or continue to represent the English Wikipedia community. Those arbitrators who continue to represent the English Wikipedia community should take a lead role both in explaining the current situation to the community and in working with the WMF to establish an effective governance system for the English Wikipedia. Robert McClenon (talk) 02:48, 14 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The contention that this case is beyond the scope of ArbCom is incorrect. The arbitration process exists to impose binding solutions to Wikipedia conduct disputes (i.e., not content disputes requiring mediation) that neither community discussion nor administrators have successfully resolved. (Wikipedia:Arbitration) ArbCom has accepted many cases in the past that have been solely about conduct. Acceptable conduct is defined by the Terms of Use instituted by WMF. These are the rules that the rest of us live by. Every day (it seems) editors are blocked for trifling violations. The contention that the conduct of the bureaucrat and administrators falls outside the scope of ArbCom due to their privileged position has never been accepted before. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 03:59, 14 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Honestly, I don't see how the Committee can avoid taking a case here, ultimately. Indeed, I would have liked ArbCom to have taken immediate steps to clarify that there was to be no more wheel warring in response to the WMF Office Action--frame it as "temporary emergency injunction" to stabilize the situation, but some immediate action was called for, imo; ArbCom's usual tendency towards caution (laudable as it is) should not have prevented drawing a line with regard to the escalating disruption. We very nearly saw a mass-desysop and the creation of a fault line between the WMF and the community as bad as any since the Knowledge Engine, and only the decision of the T&S team not to exercise their authority in the face of community members overstepping the bounds of their positions spared us mass sanctions.

I can appreciate your being caught off guard when the initiator of this case did the final office action reversal and then came straight here to throw the situation into your lap like the most high-stakes game of hot potato I've ever seen onsite. I sympathize especially in that the T&S team also did not give you more of a concrete headsup about the Fram's sanction. But the situation is within your purview and I don't see how you can avoid commenting at least upon the appropriateness of a community member reversing an office action, even if you ultimately only give responsible parties a slap on the wrist to sooth community upset. I'm sure its also self-evident the community would really appreciate an accounting of the depth of the committee's involvement in advising on T&S investigations and how comfortable you are with the situation in (as Jimmy would put it) a "constitutional" sense?

When Jimbo and his early collaborators ceded ownership interest in this project, he entrusted it to two groups, of which this community is one. The other, however, he vested with much more authority, including all legally-enforceable rights and responsibilities. The WMF owns the domain, the name, the servers, the tech backbone, and the bank accounts that keep the lights on around here. Whenever there exists a civil suit or a criminal complaint based on behaviour in this community, it lands in their laps. Everyone here will be safely in their armchair director seats and well insulated from the consequences. Put bluntly, the parties who reverted the office actions were out-ranked by light years and went way beyond what could be justified by the extent of their community mandate.

None of which should be taken to mean that I think the community is a junior partner here or shouldn't be upset about how events unfolded; far from it. But there is a division of responsibility and an institutional reality here that was not respected by some members of this community entrusted with powerful tools. ArbCom cannot go without addressing that behaviour at some level and making it clear that there can't be a repeat in the future. Snow ^{let's rap} 04:37, 14 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

ArbCom should decline the case for two clear reasons:

1. Assuming they take the case up and pass some decision against the Foundation's actions; they would clearly all be kicked out en masse by the Foundation, the community be damned.
2. Assuming they take the case up and pass the decision in favour of the Foundation, much of the community would see them as simply being lickers.

Sometimes, to run is better than to fight. Seeing all your current ambivalent responses, you guys are on the right path. Thataway puhleaze iz the fire escape. Lourdes 05:59, 14 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

No need to deal with the eponymous subject. These acts of self-immolation should be sensibly unwound in due course if that is what the functionary(s) concerned desire. They have served the purpose of escalating and highening awareness. It should stop - and probably should not have started - but we are where we are.

For next steps, we have the statement from WMF [5]. Today's meeting should provide direction. AC must be the conduit for conduct issues associated with en-WP matters that are identified to the WMF (but not raised en-wiki) and AC must guarantee their involvement and fully represent the community in all such decisions. A failure to accomplish this will immediately create the risk of any community member being office-banned by virtue of any scant evidence claim brought to WMF's attention by any mischief making, vengeful party willing to make a case of abuse by a community member they have had a run-in with. (not saying that is what happened here).

Finally, it is possible that a competency block of an editor who is also a WMF staffer might be required at some point. Paraphrasing our own essay on the subject, 'when we have finally exhausted all reasonable attempts to correct their behavior, explain and demonstrate how to do things correctly, and after a pattern of behavior has been well established and the user shows they are unlikely to do things correctly, a block, topic ban, or full ban may be the only solutions that minimize disruption to the encyclopedia'. There is no doubt this would end up in your lap down the line.

ArbCom must take this case, because in 7 to 14 days time, we are going to need a "clean the slate" ruling from ArbCom as to how they are going to interpret any "future" similar actions, post the expected upcoming WMF/BoT "clean the slate" statement. From the subsequent WMF communications posted (esp. Jan Eissfeldt of T&S), it seems that they have chosen not to go to Defcon 1 yet (e.g. they are not looking for material sanctions on these admin actions), but that may change if things are not clarified, and further on-wiki counter-actions ensue. BN is already filling up with corpses.

Ultimately this comes down to FRAM's "F-ArbCom" post (and the whole exchange). FRAM correctly assumed that his words did not merit material sanctionable actions, as in an audience of some of the most senior admins on WP, there was never a suggestion that such action was being contemplated.

In WMF world, however, the "F-ArbCom" post, in that audience, was evidence that on-wiki has lost its ability to govern WP:5P4. Given past warnings to FRAM, it seems it was the final straw for WMF. It is now clear that WMF's change of rules to bring in a 1-year ban (and the subsequent communication from JE of T&S), is a sign that WMF is going to play a more active role in this area.

The initial WMF communication was bad – no clarity the issue was civility, no "heads-up" as to their concern on WP:5P4, and no guidelines on their interpretation. However, ultimately, per Sandstein above, the WMF/BoT view will prevail; in my experience of BoTs, no trustee is going to over-rule legal advice in the areas of conduct and civility. However, given disturbing posts about WMF potentially having COI issues in this case, it would seem critical that the BoT/ArbCom are allowed inside the "secrecy circle" on any such cases for good governance. ArbCom needs to prepare for this change (we all do).

I'd suggest that Arbcom takes some kind of case along these lines.

First, hopefully the outcome of the WMF's process will leave much of the resolution of this situation to community processes. It's preferable for decisions to come from Arbcom than from the WMF, where possible.

Secondly, hopefully Arbcom will use this as an opportunity to reflect on and develop how it as a body deals with harrassment and bullying, both in its own right and in conjunction with the Trust and Safety team.

Thirdly, I would like Arbcom to send some kind of signal about how this kind of discussion should be handled both by WMF and community members. I am sure there is already plenty of discussion about this behind the scenes, but some kind of statement from Arbcom about how it views its role and how it views Trust and Safety's role would be good. Also, there have been times when the discussion about this whole issue has gone well beyond the limits of what's acceptable on Wikipedia. We've seen some pretty unpleasant instances of harassment and bullying in the debates about Fram's ban, and I urge Arbcom to take action on those too.

Arbcom should decline this case as being outside of the scope of it purpose, and per Softlavender, Boing! said Zebedee, Doug Weller, Sandstein and others. Arbcom is not the de-escalation team, nor the community's chosen liaison to the WMF, nor the vangard in a conflict with the WMF. Perhaps there is some small aspect of this that would require a motion, but a full case would not be productive in my opinion.- MrX 🖋 12:48, 14 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, arb com is the community's liaison to Trust and Safety. It worked tolerably well in the years I was on the committee, with our liaison there at the time, James Alexander. The problems that T&S and arb com deal with sometimes overlap. DGG ( talk ) 14:22, 14 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I have a slightly different reason that I hope you accept. The statements from Trust & Safety have basically boiled down to "we are taking this action due to harassment, so can't reveal details to ArbCom because we need to protect the victim". Right now, WP:ARBCOM says "Arbitrators are volunteer users—usually experienced editors and administrators—whom the community of editors at large elects to resolve the most complex or intractable disputes that may arise within the community, and to oversee the few areas where access to non-public information is a prerequisite." - which has usually been interpreted that ArbCom is where to go to for harassment issues, and can be trusted with such information. But if WMF is taking this action because they can't trust ArbCom with non-public information related to disputes within the community, why should we? You don't need to accept this as a full case, you can merely pass a motion that changes this portion of your charter. (Or acknowledges that the WMF has just changed it for you.) --GRuban (talk) 15:37, 14 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

There was a Wikipedia (est. Jan. 2001) before there was a Wikimedia Foundation (est. 2003). First the later was born and then it grew and grew into a massive bureaucracy with a $100,000,000 annual donation-take, cashing in on the work that the volunteer community has done and the public goodwill it has attained. As bureaucracies will do, its mission scope has expanded to match its income growth (largely to rationalize its budget and justify its future growth). This marks a turning point, a new phase, in which the WMF is attempting to micromanage day-to-day user behavior on En-WP. This has never been part of its purview; nor should it be. Arbcom absolutely must accept this case and fight as the volunteer community's democratically elected institutional representatives to preserve local autonomy in the face of the bureaucratic onslaught. Otherwise, we might as well admit that we are nothing more than unpaid interns for the (cough cough) professionals at WMF. And hey, that's not what I'm gonna do with my time. This is an existential menace for WP as a volunteer institution, all wrapped in the false guise of "Terms of Service." Carrite (talk) 16:07, 14 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Historical explanation of origins of WMF is HERE.

If Arbcom isn't going to investigate tool abuse, what is the point of having Arbcom at all? Gamaliel (talk) 16:05, 14 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I have mixed feelings about this, but it seems to me that we need a clear statement that accounts with advanced permissions need to be used with the utmost respect for our processes. We only allow a handful of role accounts (WMFOffice and WMFLegal are the only ones I can think of), and a person using an account like that needs to behave impeccably when using the account. Instead, we have WHEEL warring, and we have a block and de-admin of an account that WMFOffice could reasonably be seen to be in conflict with.

Whoever was using that account showed very poor judgment. We may not have the authority to sanction T&S, but the Arbcomm has every right to consider the actions of the person or persons in control of that account when those edits were made. Guettarda (talk) 18:55, 14 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: I am not a fan of the ArbCom system to begin with. I still remain thatit is to be disassembled completely.

I am sorry, but I do not trust that ArbCom can come with any good resolution in the end. Anything that will go against WMF will be blundly overruled by WMF (seen Floq's desysop, and actions like superprotect). And any resolution in favour of WMF will result in the community asking the question whether the ArbCom came to a fair answer or whether they are meekly following WMF as to not make a problem. Both scenarios result in loss of (community trust in) ArbCom.

This is NOT something for ArbCom, this is plainly the community vs. WMF. ArbCom, stay at the sidelines, stay away from the core situation (as in this request) and make sure our individual community members behave with the expected decorum.

(and that from someone who thinks that ArbCom needs to be abolished). --Dirk Beetstra ^{T C} 19:27, 14 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Other editors are free to make relevant comments on this request as necessary. Comments here should address why or why not the Committee should accept the case request or provide additional information.

This area is used for notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).

• I have removed a few statements that do not contribute anything to the question of whether to accept a case or not. To those editors, there was nothing objectionable in your statements and you are not unwelcome here; I am just trying to keep the case request as manageable and relevant as possible. GoldenRing (talk) 09:20, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• (Note of a clerical nature, rather than by a clerk as such.) @BU Rob13: The request may be renamed after the committee's view crystallises. I was renaming as a judgement on what the request should not be (a bunch of words all boiling down to one bureaucrat's name) named rather than what it necessarily should be named. Watch this space, I guess. Significant renames are usually handled when the case is opened. AGK ■ 17:15, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• Recuse I have spoken about issues that might cross over with this case with a reporter that I respect at a national (US) outlet --Guerillero | Parlez Moi 20:15, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• Note to all: Please remember that the purpose of statements here is to help the committee decide whether arbitration is necessary, not to give detailed arguments for particular outcomes. I have asked a couple of editors to trim their statements in line with the word count limit (1,000 words for parties, 500 for others), bearing this particular point in mind. GoldenRing (talk) 09:03, 14 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Vote key: (Accept/decline/recuse)

• Comment The last thing I want is for the Arbitration Committee to rush into becoming involved in an already fraught situation and make things worse. I intend to keep up-to-date with all of the various conversations surrounding this to the best of my ability, but I would like to be deliberate about any action we choose to take. There is no rush to decide whether this case needs to be accepted, and especially considering that the board will be meeting in a few days and that the folks behind the WMFOffice account are likely not working around-the-clock, we should extend some understanding that things may move a bit slowly on the WMF side of things. GorillaWarfare (talk) 01:38, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  @BD2412: No comment on the point you're making, but I did want to note that Floquenbeam did indeed request it. GorillaWarfare (talk) 04:09, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment I've been doing my very best to keep shtum over the past few days, as someone is going to have to tidy up this mess. A case request is a good place to have some discussion. I intend to ask the clerk's to enforce word limits evenly and firmly. If there is something you want to say, say it succinctly. Worm^TT(talk) 06:41, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  @Banedon:, no, case requests are awful places to have sensible discussions - but the case request page can act as a stopper to controversy around and about. Since it is monitored by clerks, hopefully extraneous discussion can disappear. Worm^TT(talk) 13:38, 14 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment I've just come back from an extended break and am not intending to say much about this elsewhere on the project. As Worm notes, a case request is a good place to have some discussion about this as long as it is done calmly, respectfully and succinctly. Keep in mind that we may have more information after the Board meeting and that a case request does not necessarily preclude the Office from acting as they see fit. I'd also like to emphasise GW's comment that the folks in the WMF Office have office hours and we should not be expecting them to communicate around-the-clock. @Worm That Turned: did you intend to include the ≠ symbol? Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 07:15, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Banedon: I was referring to comments specifically on the issue at hand: The use of admin/crat tools to override/interfere with/other characterisation an office action, what ArbCom's role is here, and when, if at all, we should take any action. My preference to wait until after the Board meeting is primarily that the result of that meeting could be directly relevant. For example, the Office may decide to act itself or the Board might ask that we all draw a line under it and move on. To what extent the outcome is relevant is an unknown at this point so I'd rather wait. Hope that answers your question? Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 12:36, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• I dunno, guys, I don't think enough stuff is on fire yet. Come back when there's more stuff more on fire. (Since this is one of those situations where humor is in short supply: No, I'm not serious.) I agree with GW about patience with a WMF response, and plan to sit on my hands on this one for a bit. The board is apparently scheduled to meet on the 14th, so the time horizon is not long. Consistent with my general views on the subject of good-faith but imperfect actions taken under highly urgent circumstances, I actually think we could make some progress untangling the community aspects of this separately from inquiring further into the WMF's decision-making, but on balance it's better to take a holistic view if we can. One important point: I think most people who follow arbcom know that I'm not exactly the civility warrior type. So I am serious when I say that in this particular request, in any resulting case or other followup, and ideally in discussions of this issue across the project, please be extra civil. Even if your temper is frayed, even if you're sure you're right, even if the other person was rude, etc etc etc. Opabinia regalis (talk) 08:03, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment I've been quiet over this whole saga, mainly because I do not want to seem like I am involved, show a bias etc. I concur with my fellow Arbs here, this is a good place to have a CIVIL discussion. I cannot stress civil enough here. I also want to see what comes from the board meeting tomorrow as well. FOr the moment i am neutral on taking the case. RickinBaltimore (talk) 11:19, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]