Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement: Difference between revisions

Important information Shortcuts WP:AE WP:ARE Please use this page only to: request administrative action against editors violating a remedy (not merely a principle) or an injunction in an Arbitration Committee decision, or a contentious topic restriction imposed by an administrator, request contentious topic restrictions against previously alerted editors who engage in misconduct in a topic area designated as a contentious topic, request page restrictions (e.g. revert restrictions) on pages that are being disrupted in topic areas designated as contentious topics, or appeal arbitration enforcement actions (including contentious topic restrictions) to uninvolved administrators. For all other problems, including content disagreements or the enforcement of community-imposed sanctions, please use the other fora described in the dispute resolution process. To appeal Arbitration Committee decisions, please use the clarification and amendment noticeboard. Only autoconfirmed users may file enforcement requests here; requests filed by IPs or accounts less than four days old or with less than 10 edits will be removed. All users are welcome to comment on requests except where doing so would violate an active restriction (such as an extended-confirmed restriction). If you make an enforcement request or comment on a request, your own conduct may be examined as well, and you may be sanctioned for it. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. (Word Count Tool) Statements must be made in separate sections. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as personal attacks, or groundless or vexatious complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions. To make an enforcement request, click on the link above this box and supply all required information. 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On Arbitration Committee review Arbitrators hearing an appeal at a request for amendment ("ARCA") will generally overturn a contentious topic restriction only if: the action was inconsistent with the contentious topics procedure or applicable policy (i.e. the action was out of process), the action represents an unreasonable exercise of administrative enforcement discretion, or compelling circumstances warrant the full Committee's action. ^ The administrator may indicate consent at any time before, during, or after imposition of the restriction. ^ This criterion does not apply if the original action was imposed as a result of rough consensus at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard, as there would be no single enforcing administrator. 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Modifications by administrators No administrator may modify or remove a sanction placed by another administrator without: the explicit prior affirmative consent of the enforcing administrator; or prior affirmative agreement for the modification at (a) AE or (b) AN or (c) ARCA (see "Important notes" below). Administrators modifying sanctions out of process may at the discretion of the committee be desysopped. Nothing in this section prevents an administrator from replacing an existing sanction issued by another administrator with a new sanction if fresh misconduct has taken place after the existing sanction was applied. Administrators are free to modify sanctions placed by former administrators – that is, editors who do not have the administrator permission enabled (due to a temporary or permanent relinquishment or desysop) – without regard to the requirements of this section. If an administrator modifies a sanction placed by a former administrator, the administrator who made the modification becomes the "enforcing administrator". If a former administrator regains the tools, the provisions of this section again apply to their unmodified enforcement actions. Important notes: For a request to succeed, either (i) the clear and substantial consensus of (a) uninvolved administrators at AE or (b) uninvolved editors at AN or (ii) a passing motion of arbitrators at ARCA is required. If consensus at AE or AN is unclear, the status quo prevails. While asking the enforcing administrator and seeking reviews at AN or AE are not mandatory prior to seeking a decision from the committee, once the committee has reviewed a request, further substantive review at any forum is barred. The sole exception is editors under an active sanction who may still request an easing or removal of the sanction on the grounds that said sanction is no longer needed, but such requests may only be made once every six months, or whatever longer period the committee may specify. These provisions apply only to contentious topic restrictions placed by administrators and to blocks placed by administrators to enforce arbitration case decisions. They do not apply to sanctions directly authorized by the committee, and enacted either by arbitrators or by arbitration clerks, or to special functionary blocks of whatever nature. All actions designated as arbitration enforcement actions, including those alleged to be out of process or against existing policy, must first be appealed following arbitration enforcement procedures to establish if such enforcement is inappropriate before the action may be reversed or formally discussed at another venue. Information for administrators processing requests Thank you for participating in this area. AE works best if there are a variety of admins bringing their expertise to each case. There is no expectation to comment on every case, and the Arbitration Committee (ArbCom) thanks all admins for whatever time they can give. A couple of reminders: Before commenting, please familiarise yourself with the referenced ArbCom case. Please also read all the evidence (including diffs) presented in the AE request. When a request widens to include editors beyond the initial request, these editors must be notified and the notifications recorded in the same way as for the initial editor against whom sanctions were requested. Where some part of the outcome is clear, a partial close may be implemented and noted as "Result concerning X". Enforcement measures in arbitration cases should be construed liberally to protect Wikipedia and keep it running efficiently. Some of the behaviour described in an enforcement request might not be restricted by ArbCom. However, it may violate other Wikipedia policies and guidelines; you may use administrative discretion to resolve it. More than one side in a dispute may have ArbCom conduct rulings applicable to them. Please ensure these are investigated. Closing a thread: Once an issue is resolved, enclose it between {{hat}} and {{hab}} tags. A bot should archive it in 7 days. Please consider referring the case to ARCA if the outcome is a recommendation to do so or the issue regards administrator conduct. You can use the templates {{uw-aeblock}} (for blocks) or {{AE sanction}} (for other contentious topic restrictions) to give notice of sanctions on user talk pages. Please log sanctions in the Arbitration enforcement log. Thanks again for helping. If you have any questions, please post on the talk page.

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

Prioryman (talk) 18:58, 24 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested

Tarc (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Scientology#1 June 2012 amendment

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. 13:38, 24 April 2013‎ Removal of Wikipedia:WikiProject Scientology project banner by User:John lilburne
2. 19:26, 24 April 2013‎ Removal of Wikipedia:WikiProject Scientology project banner by User:Tarc

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

List of Wikipedia controversies includes a section on a significant issue involving Scientology under List of Wikipedia controversies#2008. It is therefore within the scope of Wikipedia:WikiProject Scientology, of which I am a long-standing member. I added the project's banner to the article's talk page in recognition of this. The WikiProject Guide is very clear that "a WikiProject's members have the exclusive right to define the scope of their project". In addition, and this is bolded in the original for emphasis, "if a WikiProject says that an article is within their scope, then you may not force them to remove the banner." Likewise, again bolded in the original, "No editor may prohibit a group of editors from showing their interest in an article". This is unambiguous and long-standing practice. However, John lilburne removed the project banner without explanation or comment earlier today [1]. I subsequently posted an explanation to the talk page about why the article fell within the scope of the WikiProject and warned against removing the project banner [2]. Immediately afterwards, Tarc removed it again, falsely stating that the article "has nothing to do with Scientology", even though it has an entire section about it. [3] Tarc also hatted a section that I posted explaining the arbitration sanctions in place concerning that WikiProject, with the message "Fabrications will not be given the time of day" [4]. John lilburne subsequently posted "reverted again. No go and bitch about it somewhere. One editor does not make a WikiProject." [5] Neither Tarc nor John lilburne are members of WikiProject Scientology. The WikiProject Guide gives WikiProject members full discretion to tag articles of relevance to their WikiProjects, and explicitly prohibits non-project members from removing project banners or from prohibiting editors from showing their interest in an article. Tarc and John lilburne's incivil, aggressive and bullying response to my explanation is also highly inappropriate.

Scientology-related articles are under discretionary sanctions authorised by the Arbitration Committee in Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Scientology#1 June 2012 amendment. I am therefore bringing this here for resolution as Tarc's conduct is wilfully not in accordance with the expected standards of behaviour, and therefore is in violation of the sanctions. For the record, I give John lilburne a pass as I had not spelled out the reasons and guidelines at the time of his removal of the project banner and, assuming good faith, he may not have been aware of the rules regarding defining project scopes. Tarc gets no such pass as he acted in the full knowledge that his actions were in explicit breach of the rules. In bringing this here, I'm not seeking to have anyone blocked, but would like to confirm the long-standing principle that WikiProjects have authority to define which articles are within their scope and to obtain a clear instruction that Tarc and other non-project members should not attempt to deny this authority to WikiProject Scientology. Prioryman (talk) 18:58, 24 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

• 19:59, 24 April 2013‎

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

The article is within scope for that project, so I don't see why people are removing the wikiproject template. That said, using discretionary sanctions for a dispute which appears to have it's roots in issues that are not related to the initial arbitration appears seems like inappropriate usage; the reason the sanctions are here is because of POV pushing around Scientology topics. An edit war about adding/removing a wikiproject that appears to be, coincidentally, Scientology related should be handled elsewhere. IRWolfie- (talk) 19:18, 24 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

Evlekis (Евлекис) (argue) 23:32, 22 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested

Bobrayner (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

ARBMAC sanctions, Topic Ban on Balkan subjects

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. 22/04/13 Sheer arrogance "sooner or later OUR articles will reflect what the sources say". Flouting Common English AND WP:AT to introduce Albanian language text. "OUR" articles do not have selective naming, we generally follow WP:AT or historical accuracy. The place to push for changes on how we report names of cities is to have the pages moved. For example, Pristina is neither the Serbian name (Priština) nor the Albanian (Prishtina) but this user wishes to have it on the latter and claims "sources" are the reason. The source could be in Albanian for one, in English but published by an Albanian for another but in any case, we have English examples of Beograd yet we still report Belgrade.
2. 22/04/13 As above. Notice for Prokletije, known otherwise as Albanian Alps, the user has a penchant for Alpet Shqiptare (precisely in its red link over existing article) not known to any English speaker, the same line sees the blind revert re-introduce a lower case initial letter "sharr" for what according to AT is Šar Mountains.
3. 08/04/13 As above, two weeks ago.
4. 08/04/13 As above, two weeks ago. Note the link to Dukagjin is wrong in that it leads to a place in northern Albania, it just happens to be a name that Albanians prefer in place of Metohija which is the name according to AT and how the place has long been known in English.
5. 22/04/13 Re-introduces non-existent "Serb forces" as he dislikes the truth that Kosovo War was KLA vs Yugoslav authorities. He claims "let's stick to what the sources say" and demonstrates this by deleting this source which clearly says "Yugoslav security forces" with opening thee words. In its spot he places no source whatsoever, just changes wording to 'Serb forces'.
6. 22/04/13 As above, first disturbance in this area for two weeks. No editor had challenged the sourced facts in that time.
7. 01/04/13 Earlier attempt at same revision. Although there had at that time been no source to support the true version, no citation was being given by Bobrayner to verify his "sources" claim in the summary.
8. 01/04/13 A false summary in which I am named and accused of something for which I am not responsible.
9. 01/04/13 As above, start to finish.
10. 22/04/13 Despite this overwhelming consensus[6] on grounds of neutrality on "border" issues for the disputed region of Kosovo's outline with the rest of Serbia. We still get the following greasy summaries and their respective revisions, BBC source removed here.
11. 22/04/13 Falsely reporting Momčilo Perišić as former head of Serbian army, which he knows was only re-established 2006. He has done this previously[7] and yet the entire story already exists in its correct article Military of Serbia and Montenegro in which Perišić is listed alongside all other figures to have held the position. See also [8], [9], [10], [11]. Attempts to explain circumstance here [12].
12. 27/12/12 Border issue again, severe edit-warring to push pro-Kosovo independence viewpoint [13], [14], [15], [16].
13. 22/04/13 - pushing "Serbia recognises Kosovo" again here, and here shortly after.
14. 22/04/13 Denialism of facts influenced by scanty sources. Full catalogue here, attempts to deceive date back to 20/11/12, see how the user replaces FR Yugoslav flag with independent Serbian flag which was not adopted until 2006 when nation became independent. Spreading lies.
15. 22/04/13 Even though the valid and neutral and furthermore, not-disputed-by-anybody term Central Serbia has decreased in significance since 2009 according to the Serbian constitution, it maintains ceremonial status. However, the abrupt switch from Central Serbia to Serbia per se for movement into Kosovo is contrived deliberately to make Serbia and Kosovo seem like two separate states which breaches NPOV in that it indiscreetly suggests Kosovan independence with no provision for its disputed status. Continuation here, and here with a personal attack in the summary.
16. 22/04/13 Removing sourced information per WP:IDONTLIKEIT and is opposed by the multitude.
17. 22/04/13 Removing sourced information to battle against consensus, continuing here. All started here with no consensus or attempt at discussion.
18. 22/04/13 This contribution speaks for itself. The map being removed was not controversial, Kosovo was already marked green and outlined to accept disputed status. Once more.

Just over two weeks ago, I completed an AN/I grievance against the user with this edit. The full scale of this editor's disruptive behaviour is explained there though I didn't realise that AN/I was both the wrong place and the manner was inappropriate. To synopsise, we have had two peaceful weeks with no issues on ARBMAC subjects whilst Bobrayner was absent. No sooner did he return than he immediately embarked on a rampage to make gross POV-pushing and policy-contravening reverts/fresh edits and all hiding behind the irrelevant and stale "sources" argument. The most notable change involves naming conventions on Kosovan subjects. The user is aware that we observe historical accuracy for providing names of settlements according to how they were known at the time in question and this is consistent with the language of the contemporary state. The user is also aware of WP:AT yet has chosen to take every opportunity he could find to switch English language names of towns for their controversial Albanian translation - controversial because Kosovo's status is subject to dispute and all good faith editors tread very carefully to use neutral wording which acknowlegdes the situation and neither leans one way or the other. The user dismisses this as "synthesis" and "wiesel wording" and proceeds to stylise the article 100% in the direction of Kosovan independence, Albanian as language having monopoly over WP:AT and common English; furthermore the user is known for edit-warring[17] and he adds lies to articles, namely anything to do with the Kosovo War in which he outright denies that the belligerent against whom the Albanian KLA waged war was the Military of Serbia and Montenegro, known as the Army of Yugoslavia which comprised two republics - Bobrayner prefers "Serb military", "Armed Forces of Serbia"[18] and anything denigrating the Serbian nation despite them not having had an independent army - only police and paramilitary units. He justifies this depredation with a template summary, "let's stick to what the sources say" despite having been shown that publications are selective simplifications which use "Serb" over "Yugoslav" and he has been given examples where this is so on matters where it is known Yugoslav is correct and Serb is wrong (eg. Milošević wrongly labelled Serb president in reliable source when position was held by Milutinović; Milošević was actually Yugoslav president at time of publication). In addition, a full explanation was spelt out black and white fresh from a source which he was using[19], the text explained the full Yugoslav/Serb scenario. On top of that, the rest of the WP community to edit on the Balkans observe a consensus which favours precision over press-style simplification thus dismissing the idea that "sources" trump facts.

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

1. Warned on Date by Name of user who made warning 1 (talk · contribs)
2. Warned on Date by Name of user who made warning 2. If there is no warning 2, delete this entire line (talk · contribs)

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Sandstein, you must forgive me for never having filled out an AE request and not knowing the exact procedures. Concerning remedy I don't know what to put because I was merely hoping to see Bobrayner receive a topic ban. To ensure this does not turn into Dramafest, please note the following which will not contain citations unless requested. For every accusation made against my revisions on matters of AT, English usage over Albanian, Yugoslav troops over Serbian, alleged stalking, I can justify each edit one by one. Where I was named in the summary for sections I did not concoct stands correct: I was simply reverting a batch of consecutive edits in which I spotted about 90% of information was false/contrived to mislead. To that end, what remained showed no signs of vandalism so I felt I should clear the section. I even provided the revisions where those points were first inserted on Rayner's talk. Be that as it may, I did later correct that section though none of this has stopped Bobrayner edit-warring to restore his own version. Quite where User:Neutral Fair Guy is supposed to come into this I don't know, what we do know about him however is that he has not only made 53 edits, but thousands as it is confirmed who he is, User:Sinbad Barron. Rayner alo fails to realise that the Sinbad Barron franchise makes edits PRO-Bobrayner, not against. Rayner in turn has never reverted a Sinbad account, or had words with him. And if User:Keithstanton is another incarnation (it's 50/50), Rayner has even endorsed that editor's revisions by reverting to them.

Exceeding revert restrictions is one thing, self-reverting is another. Besides, he did the same thing at List of massacres in the Kosovo War. For the time I made an unlogged edit, I was warned. I deny any such editing after that time and if anybody believes I have been responsible for the edit-warring at Cinema of Kosovo, I invite that admin to carry out a CU.

Having read Joy's remarks, the second time BOOMERANG has been mentioned, I have come to the conclusion that there is a protection racket here. I stand by my edits 100%, and mentioning this to WhiteWriter is a far cry from canvassing. If you name editors in these talks there is even a requirement to alert them, not the same thing as sending out messages to allies when you are proposing AfD or a page move. Concerning "stalking", naturally when you clock half a dozen nonconstructive edits by a user it is reasonable to follow up and see what he has been doing elsewhere. Several of Rayner's edits since his break are in tact, each one that isn't concern removals of large sourced chucks, some of the time it was not even Rayner's first attempt at doing so and it had been more seasoned editors reverting him originally.

On the subject of stalking, I am very interested as to how Rayner managed to find Hiking in Kosovo, Climate of Kosovo and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Stanislava Pak Stanković.

If the admins involved wish to turn the table on my account and turn me into the accused party. I have no fears. By the same token, I have no expectation that Rayner will be sanctioned here so I might just have to drop this case. But before I do I'll say one thing, it is striking that editors such as User:Keithstanton and others get banned from editing when making Rayner-esque edits. He survives without a blotch. Editors who go overboard in producing pro-Serbian NPOV violations receive topic bans. Curiously, the fact that this is all dismissed as a mere "content dispute" with Rayner continuing battleground editing contrary to consensus and with opposition from a host of good editors (none of whom I have alrted to this talk), the very fact that this has gone on for over six months speaks for itself. Evlekis (Евлекис) (argue) 13:48, 23 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

PS for Edjohnson. I have to be honest, I am on 1RR, a sanction by which I am debilitated. Nothing for which I raised this talk concerns violations on an actual 1RR article. Just thought you should know. Evlekis (Евлекис) (argue) 13:51, 23 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

As regards Sandstein's proposal evidently influenced by his interpretation of the evidence submitted, I feel I should mention that I have kept this as short as possible with the basis for the talk being what he has done since his return from a two-week absence. Rayner's disruption, battleground editing and gross POV pushing goes back six months on these issues alone and he has made many enemies, not just this one. To this end it is only right that before a decision be reached, specific misgivings must be addressed and this time, I will be giving citations.

• Comment by Sandstein: Bobrayner's argument that Evlekis has been stalking him just to disagree with him on random issues appears plausible; it is indeed difficult to see why Evlekis (who has otherwise edited only Balkans-related articles) would otherwise insert himself into these disputes. Evlekis does not rebut Bobrayner's allegation....
  • Reply: whilst Balkan topics dominate my 30,000 contributions, not everything is in that field. I did indeed dismiss the pathetic allegation in this post, 3rd paragraph, so Sandstein will need to read it.

• Comment by Sandstein: ...and his reference to articles on which he alleges Bobrayner has been stalking him is not supported by any diffs.
  • Hiking in Kosovo is a new articled created on 24 February 2013. Locating it is like finding a needle in a haystack, I embarked on a number of changes and improvements between 8-9 April which sit harmlessly for two weeks and in one blast, all gone, copy edits, grammar, spelling mistakes, the lot, and all for nothing more than to re-introduce Albanian endonyms. For more proof, spot the difference here[20].
  • Climate of Kosovo was a graveyard article with two edits from its creation in 2008 until February 2013 (see bottom), then it came to life. I make five edits to the page between 27 and 31 March including naming of settlements per WP:AT. An opportunist IP tries his luck at restoring Albanian endonyms, I get wind of this as the page is on my watchlist and then from out of nowhere, hello! what's this?, then this. Date: 8 April 2013.
  • Stanislava Pak Stanković is up on offer because she so-called "lacks notability". Yet mysteriously, our friend found the article for deletion project page[21].

I contend that none of this is possible without the user having rifled through my contributions (ie. stalking).

Asides Climate of Kosovo which I dated 8 April, please observe these examples:

• North Kosovo crisis. Where it began[22]. 2349 UTC on 7th
  

next came Climate of Kosovo listed above

• Natural resources of Kosovo - new article, February 2013, should be difficult to find. Rayner's first contribution to it, reverting me. 2353 UTC on 7th
• Majlinda Kelmendi - hardly touched since creation in November 2010. Hello! A revert to restore Albanian name of town 2355 UTC on 7th, spotted two minutes after above edit.
• Demographics of Kosovo - the famous "spelling fix", either he typed extremely fast or he reverted. 2357 UTC on 7th
• Tuzi was created in 2005. Rayner made his first ever contribution to that page on 8 April 2013 eleven days after my clean-up edits and his purpose is simply to re-Albanianise the text[23]. 0007 UTC
• Talk:Republika Srpska - next comes this comment in which he makes no attempt to conceal the individual with whom he has a problem. 0011 UTC
• Koriša bombing - 0018, 0044, 0157. Although Rayner's disruption and edit-warring on that article went back much further, please note how the 0018 revision directly cancels my contribution which has sat unchallenged for six days in which time Rayner had many several contributions.
• United Nations Interim Administration Mission in Kosovo - a point for which Rayner has long pushed and continues to do so. [24] 0044.

1hr 5mins, nine articles - achieved either by scanning down the contributions by Evlekis or by astronomical coincidence.

If I am supposed to have edited from this account, I'd be world famous for the time it took me to hop so quickly from Britain where I live to Switzerland where the IP is based[25].

Whilst we are on the subject, I am rather curious about this pattern: This account has a special interest in Albania–Yugoslav border incident, as does indeed this account which I suspect is the same person. All of the edits to that page are consistent with this from Rayner, plus [26].

Rather than cherry-picking, try reading the whole section to place this matter is perspective. "Pig ignorant" is a cliche in which pig is an intensifier and the partnering remark "biased towards her nation's mindset" is my response to an editor who comments that the woman's personality is clear from her statements. It was initially taken as an attack on the editor in question but was eventually cleared up and I assured the relevant persons that I would not make comments in that fashion again ad such I haven't. Rayner's accusation that this is me allegedly denying genocide is neither here nor there, however, for the record, in 1990 when it was reported that Ora's parents came to Britian, there was not a single gunshot fired yet in that province.

• Comment by Sandstein: The Serbian Army edits by Bobrayner are edit-warring, but date to December 2012‎ and are not at this point very actionable any more..
  • Response. Are you sure???? One day of quiet is not enough to warrant that claim.

• that 'spelling fix' edit had a bad summary indeed, but if you actually look into the particular dispute, you'll see that bobrayner's behavior is consistent and fair: the entire table is attributed to a 2011 census reference, and the document is published by current Kosovo authorities in Albanian.
  • Bobrayner has been explained by many editors on several occasions that this is English Wiki and we use English names, as such we don't have Den Haag, Wien, Beograd or München. Joy's own editing background make it clear that he is very well versed in the names of Kosovan settlements and knows full well that switching settlement titles to report them per their Albanian names is tendentious. It is one thing when the Albanian name is already known in English as part of a title (eg. League of Peja, KF Kosova Vushtrri, Grand Hotel Prishtina) but Rayner doesn't even use that argument that Joy has provided for him when making his changes: Joy deems Rayner "consistent and fair" thinking that he is merely observing publication in Albanian. As a matter of fact it is all part of a wider campaign in which Rayner believes that those Albanian names are part of English itself. Just look at this unsigned comment some hours ago[27]. A page about hiking! Demographic list sources are one thing, but hiking in Kosovo??? Please! He just wants everything in Albanian for Kosovo and that is the end. I mean if you think I am making this up, just consider this: Prokletije - article title; Albanian Alps - pipe, but all right, atleast it is English. What does Rayner give us? [28], Alpet Shqiptare, yes, RED LINK. Bobrayner NOT tendentious?? Checkmate.

• The Republika Srpska city list dispute was pretty retarded, granted, but again, bobrayner was consistent in his position of matching the ref to the content - at the cost of deletionism - and he was apparently the first to bring it up on Talk there (before his first revert). That's also not exactly the hallmark of a tendentious editor.
  • Joy has hit the nail on the head "at the cost of deletionism". First of all, Joy's assertion that Rayner consulted the talk page before his first revert is wrong. By the time the topic was introduced (see top), Rayner was already citing this revert completed five hours before the talk page comment. What is interesting is the restoration of the deletion, if you read the summary here[29] (also posted before talk was launched), the user points out that a source is in place and if numbers do not match then one is free to change them in accordance with that source. The manner in which Rayner was deleting was more akin to falsely inserted information (eg. listing Chinese television viewing figures on an article about Israel's occupation of Gaza), as if those towns really did not belong to Srpska. So here Rayner at 1809 initiates discussion, however this[30] supporting edit arrived five minutes before the talk. All of this is a far cry from Joy's idea that Rayner was playing fair. To be honest, I don't know why so many admins are exalting instances where Rayner is "not tendentious" when the multitude of examples clearly show that he is: all the dirty schemes to present Kosovo as a country with no regard for its disupted status, the deliberate removal of FR Yugoslavia and its replacement with "Serb" for matters known to relate to the state. These concern me far more than Republika Srpska.

I have breached 1RR four times. The first time I admit was on purpose logged out, a known case, for which I was warned and have not done it again. The second, third and fourth occasions were different. Each time it was in error: two very different revisions I submitted on Koriša bombing and it was not brought to my attention until it was too late. Rayner had reverted nine minutes after I had taken out "Serb" a second time. It was one obscure feature I genuinely missed. For the other two, I self-reverted and was only caught out because of the distortion of UTC and my local time. That said, on neither occasion did I "game the system" by re-reverting after time, such as right now[31].

To this end, I contend that since I too base my edits on sourced information, facts, consensus, and have proven unequivocally that I can operate within 1RR; with evidence that I am not editing from other machines logged out, I am in no greater need of a block, a topic ban or any other "more comprehensive" sanction than the antagonist and subject of this discussion, Bobrayner.

If any other apologists for Rayner would like to present further cases of his "innocence", please produce them so I may refute them one by one. Evlekis (Евлекис) (argue) 02:14, 24 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I'd like to draw your attention to two things. If I were wrong about WP:AT forming an overriding basis on how we present names of settlements then I accept that. As such, I have made changes to the Demographics of Kosovo municipality list which I hope will in some way be accepted as a compromise and a step towards resolution. As it took me a few edits to complete, have a look at the end result, a new table with names given in every known variation - article title remains first, but I have placed Albanian before Serbian in the list and we can say that A comes before S in the alphabet to justify it. Of course this is one of many places that such measures may help. If the community is happy with it, I'll do the same on all related articles I find. If users are unhappy and believe that only the name per Albanian source should be reported, I believe it only right that they explain themselves. Also, you mention that that I did not respond to Rayner's comment on Talk:Hiking in Kosovo. The fact is that I have spoken about this with him time and time again, and not just me, other users too have had words with him on this subject. Naming on the Hiking in Kosovo pages is nothing we haven't seen in many places before. As for discussion, I have addressed Rayner here, here and here. Also if you care to inspect Talk:Climate of Kosovo, you'll see that it is more or less exactly what Talk:Hiking in Kosovo is except I am the one to have launched a discussion to which Rayner had not replied at the time of me writing this. Basically, I am exhausted with the same old rhetoric, going round and round in circles. That's why I opted not to satisfy Rayner on Talk:Hiking in Kosovo.

The second thing is trivial but needs clearing up. No part of my grievance mentions Republika Srpska and the edit-warring there. You managed to locate it easily because Rayner's list of disruptive incidents is as long as your arm. Those involving me constitute a mere fraction. Now putting aside his first bold blanking edit, this contribution preceded this talk page edit so the suggestion that he used discussion first and even reverted after remains a misjudgement. I am now going to spend the next hour or so locating pages which prove I have edited neutrally and where it may not immediately seem to be the case, I shall explain why and how the neutrality of the contribution is unequivocal. Evlekis (Евлекис) (argue) 18:55, 24 April 2013 (UTC) [reply]