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:I'll agree, and even more, Keysanger discard any editing that is not aligned with the version he thinks proper, including the discarded of primary sources than he considered non-neutral, this behavior is unacceptable and must be stop, even the agreements reached previously are simple ignored by this so-called "wikipedian". Keysanger, this article is not yours, and your version of the facts is quite far from the truth. Greetings --[[User:Cloudaoc|Cloudaoc]] ([[User talk:Cloudaoc|talk]]) 05:51, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
:I'll agree, and even more, Keysanger discard any editing that is not aligned with the version he thinks proper, including the discarded of primary sources than he considered non-neutral, this behavior is unacceptable and must be stop, even the agreements reached previously are simple ignored by this so-called "wikipedian". Keysanger, this article is not yours, and your version of the facts is quite far from the truth. Greetings --[[User:Cloudaoc|Cloudaoc]] ([[User talk:Cloudaoc|talk]]) 05:51, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

:Truthiness doesn't matter here, its reliability of sources. Blanking Talk: before an RFC, tendentious reliability editing when the reliability issues of all sources have been listed, Hostile behaviour on Talk:, and attempts to control Talk: by editing other's contributions—ownership issues. I came from an RFC Keysanger called for; contributed extensively regarding the sourcing problems (primarily using Primaries (of any kind) to attempt to verify). Keysanger selectively dealt with the RFC points I had made, and then claimed to have completed editing in response without arguing why he selectively addressed citation format and sourcing issues. [[User:Fifelfoo|Fifelfoo]] ([[User talk:Fifelfoo|talk]]) 06:21, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Revision as of 06:21, 5 October 2009

Request for Comment

The War of the Pacific is in Wikipedia a controversial theme and a wide feedback from the community can improve the quality of the article. --Keysanger (talk) 08:50, 30 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

RfC Response: Fifelfoo (talk) 12:00, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

Just because I haven't mentioned it, don't think its okay. There are massive SYN OR problems because people have been citing claims out of primary instead of secondary sources. Your citation styles are constantly changing, making verification near impossible. You need to establish some kind of quote repository not on the main page. You need to re-write the narrative out of the best-available scholarly monographs... preferably the English Language ones. If you notice a certain frustration in my typing, its because your references are horrifyingly bad.

Spellcheck the entire thing.

These have been used to backdoor inappropriate sources. Delete all.Green tickY --Keysanger (talk) 14:35, 30 September 2009 (UTC) [reply]

Extended content

The United States and the Bolivian Seacoast Online book by Bolivian historian and diplomat Jorge Gumucio Granier

delete Inappropriate backdooring of non-scholarly source Green tickY

Clear brief account of causes and consequences of the War of the Pacific, 1879-1883.

delete Inappropriate backdooring of non-scholarly source Green tickY

(Spanish) La Guerra del Pacifico, Los Heroes Olvidados Chilean site

delete If its notable, explain in prose, and link. If its not, its backdooring. Green tickY

History of Chemical Engineering: Nitrogen, for a brief description nitrates and its strategic importance

delete Nitrates should be linked in article Green tickY

(Spanish) Sin mar... hace 127 anos ("Without Sea... for 127 years"); page about the war and its impact on Bolivian society.

delete Inappropriate backdooring of non-scholarly source Green tickY

Article: Bolivia Reaches for a Slice of the Coast That Got Away - NY Times 9/24/06

delete Inappropriate backdooring of non-scholarly source Green tickY

Sociedad de Estudios Historicos Coronel Arnaldo Panizo Peruvian site

delete If its notable, explain in prose, and link. If its not, its backdooring. Green tickY

Bibliography

Referencing style is inconsistent. Bibliography is not alphabetised. Bibliography is not separated into primary and secondary works.

Please add location data for citation.
Done --Keysanger (talk) 15:28, 2 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Extended content

Gonzalo Bulnes(1851-1936), "Chile and Peru : the causes of the war of 1879", Publisher Imprenta Universitaria, Santiago de Chile, in English Language (Download here)

Probably PRIMARY, Citation unacceptable: lacks translation information, lacks year of publication.

Diego Barros Arana Historia de la guerra del Pacífico (1879-1880), Publisher: "librería central de servat i c", Esquina de Huerfanos i Ahumada, Santiago, Chile, 1881 , 2 Vols. (Download Vol.1 and Vol.II) in Spanish Language

PRIMARY, do not rely upon for claims

Jorge Basadre, "Historia de la Republica del Peru, La guerra con Chile" in Spanish Language

Entirely unacceptable citation. Publisher, Location, year, translated version of title. Seriously suspect self / vanity / unacceptable publication format

Roberto Querajazu Calvo, "Aclaraciones historicas sobre la guerra del Pacifico", here in Spanish language. (A Bolivian historian)

Entirely unacceptable citation. Publisher, Location, year, translated version of title, inappropriate National identification of author.

William Jefferson Dennis, "Documentary history of the Tacna-Arica dispute", published by the University, Iowa City, 1927. It contains many important documents (translated) in English language. (Download here)

PRIMARY, do not rely upon for claims. Inappropriate commentary on the text (such commentary is OR, cite a historiographical article or book review).

"Boletin de la Guerra del Pacifico", edited during the war by the Chilean government, included documents in Spanish language: Laws, informs, editorial of newspapers, maps, etc. (See here)

PRIMARY, do not rely upon for claims.

References

The referencing section is inconsistent, full of dreck, OR, PRIMARY. This leads me to the necessary conclusion that the article contains OR and SYN.

Seriously consider changing the conversational and informal style of citations.

Sources in English should have their quotes included in the body of the text, or removed. Consider making Talk:WotP/citationquotes for future verification efforts.

Separate your notes and your references.

Extended content

^ 19,000 in San Juan, 4,000 in Lima, 1,000 in El Callao (Pierola letter to Julio Tenaud) 4,000 in Arequipa, Col. Jose de la Torre[1]

In appropriate citation. PRIMARY: thus OR. Inappropriate external link (not to document cited, or to a synthetic presentation of a primary source: ie, unacceptable presentation as the provenance is non scholarly. University websites are not a scholarly publishing mode.) replaced for Sater cite --Keysanger (talk) 16:16, 1 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

^ a b c d e f See W.F.Sater, "Andean Tragedy", tables 22 and 23 in pages 348-349. The figures consider neither Chilean POWs (from "Rimac" and "Esmeralda" survivors) nor deserteuers

Misspelling in commentary. Green tickY --Keysanger (talk) 16:40, 30 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

^See also ETERNAL RAMIFICATIONS OF THE WAR OF THE PACIFIC, page 26,: This new law directly violated the Treaty of Sucre and outraged Chilean and foreign investors and the ANRC refused to pay the tax (Gumucio Granier, 1986: 46) deleted --Keysanger (talk) 16:16, 1 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Unacceptable citation format (incomplete). Citation not in bibliography. MA Theses are not scholarly works, this would be unacceptable verification against Featured Article Criteria. deleted --Keysanger (talk) 16:16, 1 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

^ a b Because the capital of Bolivia, La Paz, lacked a telegraph connexion abroad the there are different data for declaration of war depending of the place (i.e. the used means of transportation carriage, ship, telegraph abroad) where the new was received. There are two documents about and William F. Sater in "Andean Tragedy", page 28 states:

Incomprehensible grammar. deleted --Keysanger (talk) 20:43, 30 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

"Documentary History of the Tacna-Arica dispute, University of Iowa studies in the social sciences, Vol. 8", by William Jefferson Dennis, here, page 69: On March 14 Bolivia advised representatives of foreign powers that a state of war existed with Chile. ... Godoi advised President Pinto that this move was to prevent Chile from securing armaments abroad ...

PRIMARY, unacceptable citation format (incomplete). Citation not in bibliography. deleted --Keysanger (talk) 20:43, 30 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

"Andean Tragedy", William F. Sater, page 39:Thus, Daza's declaration of war was a godsend ..., also page 42in March he suddenly declared war on Chile

Unacceptable quotation style

"Latin America's Wars: The age of the caudillo, 1791-1899" By Robert L. Scheina, page 376: On March 18 Bolivia declared war and confiscated all Chilean property in Bolivia and under the terms of a secret treaty ..."

Unacceptable citation format (incomplete). Citation not in bibliography. Possibly an unacceptable source (can't tell: unacceptable citation) deleted --Keysanger (talk) 20:43, 30 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

"Wars and Peace Treaties, 1816-1991", By Erik Goldstein, page 182: As result of this action Bolivia declared war on Chile (1.March)

Unacceptable citation format (incomplete). Citation not in bibliography. Possibly an unacceptable source (can't tell: unacceptable citation) deleted --Keysanger (talk) 20:43, 30 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

"The history of Chile" By John Lawrence Rector, page 100:

Unacceptable citation format (incomplete). Citation not in bibliography. Possibly an unacceptable source (can't tell: unacceptable citation) deleted --Keysanger (talk) 20:43, 30 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

onwar.com: Bolivia then declared war on Chile and called upon Peru for help.

GROSSLY UNACCEPTABLE SOURCE deleted --Keysanger (talk) 20:43, 30 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

country-data.com: Bolivia, in alliance with Peru, declared war on Chile on March 1, ...'

GROSSLY UNACCEPTABLE SOURCE deleted --Keysanger (talk) 20:43, 30 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

andrewclem.com: ... , but Bolivia declared war on Chile and made known its “secret” alliance with Peru in March, ...

GROSSLY UNACCEPTABLE SOURCE deleted --Keysanger (talk) 20:43, 30 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

globalsecurity.com: Bolivia, in alliance with Peru, declared war on Chile on March 1,...

UNACCEPTABLE SOURCE deleted --Keysanger (talk) 20:43, 30 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Encarta: Bolivia declared war and was joined by Peru, a partner in a secret alliance.

GROSSLY UNACCEPTABLE SOURCE

"The geopolitics of security in the Americas: hemispheric denial from Monroe ..." by Martin Sicker here: and Bolivia declared war on 14 February 1879 ...

Unacceptable citation format (incomplete). Citation not in bibliography. Possibly an unacceptable source (can't tell: unacceptable citation) deleted --Keysanger (talk) 20:43, 30 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

"A history of Chile‎" - Page 326, by Luis Galdames, Isaac Joslin Cox - History - 1941 - 565 pages: The government of Chile refused to accede to this. Meanwhile Peru mobilized its army rapidly, Bolivia declared war against Chile, and the press of those ... deleted --Keysanger (talk) 20:43, 30 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Unacceptable citation format (incomplete). Citation not in bibliography. Possibly an unacceptable source (can't tell: unacceptable citation) deleted --Keysanger (talk) 20:43, 30 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

"Chile and the War of the Pacific"‎ - Page 9 by William F. Sater - History - 1986 - 343 pages Two weeks after Chile occupied the disputed territory, Daza declared war.

Unacceptable citation format (incomplete). Unacceptable quotation style.

"The Bolivia-Chile-Peru dispute in the Atacama Desert" by Ronald Bruce St. John, Clive H. Schofield here: "Once Bolivia declared war on March 14 1879 ...". deleted --Keysanger (talk) 20:43, 30 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Unacceptable citation format (incomplete). Citation not in bibliography. Possibly an unacceptable source (can't tell: unacceptable citation) deleted --Keysanger (talk) 20:43, 30 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

^ See W.F.Sater, "Andean Tragedy", page 8 for Peruvian, page 12 for Bolivian and page 13 for Chilean data

CONSISTENCY PLEASE separated --Keysanger (talk) 20:43, 30 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

^ See William F. Sater, "Andean Tragedy", page 38:

CONSISTENCY PLEASE now with {{rp|page=nr}} --Keysanger (talk) 20:43, 30 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

^ See W.F.Sater, "Andean Tragedy", page 40:

CONSISTENCY PLEASE now with {{rp|page=nr}} --Keysanger (talk) 20:43, 30 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

^ See William F. Sater, "Andean Tragedy", page 16,:

CONSISTENCY PLEASE now with {{rp|page=nr}} --Keysanger (talk) 20:43, 30 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

^ See "University of Iowa studies in the social sciences", Volumen 8, page 54

UNACCEPTABLE: INCOMPLETE, NOT IN BIBLIOGRAPHY Green tickY --Keysanger (talk) 20:43, 30 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

^ See full english version of the treaty in Gonzalo Bulnes, Chile and Peru: the causes of the war of 1879, Imprenta Universitaria. Santiago de Chile.

PRIMARY deleted --Keysanger (talk) 20:43, 30 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

^ See History of the Latin-American nations By William Spence Robertson: [2]

UNACCEPTABLE: INCOMPLETE, NOT IN BIBLIOGRAPHY

New York Times: "The defensive treaty of 1873 between Peru and Bolivia" (First column).[3]

Low grade RS, possibly Primary depending on year, would not meet FAC.

A history of Peru By Clements Robert Markham: "The Chileans used this purely defensive treaty, by which arbitration is provided for before there can be a casus foederis, as a pretext for war."[4] CHILE, PERU AND THE TREATY OF 1929: THE FINAL SETTLEMENT by Ronald Bruce St John: "Peru was honour bound under the terms of an 1873 treaty of defensive alliance to join the conflict on the side of Bolivia."[5]

UNACCEPTABLE: INCOMPLETE, NOT IN BIBLIOGRAPHY

^ See Donald E. Worcester and Wendell G. Schaeffer, "The Growth and Culture of Latin America", New York, Oxford University Press, 1956, 963 pages. Page 706,: In 1873, fearing the consecuences of taking action against Chile, Peru and Bolivia signed a defensive-offensive alliance

SPELLING, AGED, Not on topic

Alfred Barnaby Thomas, Profesor of History, University of Alabama,"Latin America, A History", The Macmillian Company, New York, 1956, 800 pages, page 450: This rivaliry [of Chile-Peru], straining the relations of the two countries, led Pardo to sign and offensive and defensive alliance with Bolivia in 1873, the latter being also disturbed by Chiles aggresiveness

Spelling, inappropriate naming of position, Aged source, survey history

Charles de Varigny, "La Guerra del Pacifico", page 18, here: …Chile vacilaría aún más si Bolivia, firmando un tratado de alianza ofensiva y defensiva con el Perú, podía poner sobre las armas los efectivos militares y las fuerzas navales de esta nación. Un tratado de esta naturaleza fué precisamente la condición que puso Boliyia para aceptar la aventura que el Perú le proponía. Se iniciaron negociaciones y quedó firmado el Tratado, que se convino en mantener secreto, con el fin de proporcionar al Perú la ocasión de ofrecer su mediación, no revelándolo sino en caso de que Chile rechazase esta mediación y declarase la guerra.

Untranslated, Unacceptable: Incomplete, not in bibliography

Gonzalo Bulnes, "Chile and Peru, The causes of the War of 1879" page 57 and 58: The Treaty menaces Chile … Never was Chile in greater peril, nor has a more favourable moment been elected for reducing her to the mere leavings that interested none of the conspirators. The advantage to each of them was clear enough. Bolivia would expand three degrees on the coast; Argentina would take possession of all our eastern terrisories to whatever point she liked; Peru would make Bolivia pay her with the salitre region. The synthesis of the Secret Treaty was this: opportunity: the disarmed condition of Chile; the pretext to produce conflict: Bolivia: the profit of the business: Patagonia and the salitre.

Unacceptable: Incomplete citation

Diego Barros Arana, "Historia de la Guerra del Pacifico", parte 1, capitulo III, page 31: Sea de ello lo que se quiera, el hecho es que el 6 de febrero de 1873 se firmaba en Lima un tratado secreto de alianza ofensiva i defensiva, por el cual ambas partes contratantes se comprometian a marchar unidas contra cualquier enemigo esterior que amenazase su independencia, su soberanía, o su integridad territorial.

Untranslated, Unacceptable: Incomplete, PRIMARY

Chilean Magazin "Que Pasa" here: A comienzos de 1870, Perú pasaba por un mal período económico, ya que el guano -fertilizante natural del cual procedían las principales ganancias fiscales- estaba agotado, mientras el salitre, producto que lo reemplazaba, estaba en manos de particulares. La única solución era eliminar a nuestro país como competidor en la extracción del salitre, para traspasar la propiedad de las salitreras al Estado y poseer el monopolio. Fue a raíz de esto que Perú y Bolivia firmaron un tratado secreto ofensivo y defensivo contra Chile, donde ambas naciones se apoyarían en caso de guerra.

Untranslated, Unacceptable: Incomplete, Low quality, not in bibliography

"The New York Times" - Current History (1922) here page 450 : Notwithstanding the fact that in 1873 Peru had induced Bolivia to sign a pact of alliance tacitly directed against Chile, the Peruvian government offered its mediation in the Bolivian-Chilean conflict, the origin of which was nothing more than Peru’s monopolistic nitrate policy, which had instigated Bolivia to disposes Chilean industries. The mediation of Peru was accompanied by three suspicious circumstances: (1) The denial on the part of the mediating minister of the existence of the secret treaty of which Chile had lately become aware; (2) Previous Peruvian demands compatible only with the pretensions of Bolivia; (3) Hurried war preparations of Peru, the Peruvian government meanwhile showing a desire to gain time. These circumstances, with the fact that Bolivia did not manifest the slightest desire to facilitate an amicable adjustment, indicated to Chile that Peru was not working ‘bona fide’, but only with the intentin of strengthening the alliance.

Low quality, old, not in bibliography, unacceptable: incomplete

"By Reason or Force: Chile and the Balancing of Power in South America, 1830-1905" by Robert N. Burr, page 130: But after extended discussionswhich served to delay Argentinas adherence to the anti-Chilean treaty, Buenos Aires accepted the exclusion of Brasil. There was however still another matter to be settled before Argentina was willing to join the alliance- the question of the boundary dispute with the altiplano.

Standardise citation style (this is really horrific). Unacceptable: incomplete. Not in bibliography.

"Latin America's Wars: The age of the caudillo, 1791-1899" by Robert L. Scheina, here, page 375: Bolivia nad Peru concluded a secret defensive treaty which provided that if either Bolivia or Peru were attacked by a foreign nation (obviously, it was directed against Chile), the other nation would go to the aid of the co-signer (:: Robert L. Scheina calls the treaty obviously, it was directed against Chile and use the adjective "defensive" as a part of the name of the treaty: "a secret defensive treaty".)

Standardise citation style (this is really horrific). Unacceptable: incomplete. Not in bibliography. Argumentative in notes.

^ See "Manifest of the Chilean government to the representatives of friendly powers with reference to the declaration of war against Peru". Alejandro Fierro, Chilean Ministry of Foreign affairs, Santiago April 12, 1879 here, page 170:

GROSSLY UNACCEPTABLE: Primary used to justify claims.

^ See Hugo A. Maureira, "The War of the Pacific (1879-1884) and the Role of Racial Ideas in the Construction of Chilean Identity", here

Not in bibliography, unacceptable: incomplete

^ See Private note of Riva-Agüero to Novoa, November 20 1872. Godoy papers. Cited in Gonzalo Bulnes, Chile Peru, the causes of the War 1879, page 58 and 59:

PRIMARY OR SYN Incomplete citation.

^ See Jorge Basadre, "Historia de la Republica del Peru", Tomo V, Editorial Peruamerica S.A., Lima-Peru, 1964, page 2282, "El comienzo de la inferioridad naval peruana y la falta de iniciativa para una guerra preventiva":

Citation style inconsistent. Suspect this is a chapter, which has been conflated under the larger work. No translation of titles or quotes.

^ See Jorge Basadre, "Historia de la Republica del Peru", Tomo V, Editorial Peruamerica S.A., Lima-Peru, 1964, page 2286, "El Peru en 1874 y 1878 evita la alianza con Argentina":

Citation style inconsistent. Suspect this is a chapter, which has been conflated under the larger work. No translation of titles or quotes.

^ See page 37 and ff

IBID is entirely unacceptable

^ [6] Retrospectiva del enclaustramiento maritimo. Una vision critica sobre como se inicio el conflicto. Jorge Gumucio. La Paz, Bolivia, page 30:

Incomplete citation, untranslated citation, untranslated quote, not in bibliography, cannot determine reliability of the source.

^ [7] Relaciones Chile-Bolivia-Peru: La Guerra del Pacifico. June 2004. Patricio Valdivieso. Pontificia Universidad Catolica de Chile, page 8:

Non standard citation style, title not translated, quote not translated, work not in bibliography.

^ [8] Los empresarios, la politica y la Guerra del Pacifico. Luis Ortega. Santiago de Chile. 1984. (Page 18. File Antony Gibbs & Sons AGA. Valparaiso to Londres. Private N 25. March 6, 1878)

PRIMARY OR SYN incomplete citation, not in bibliography, title not translated.

^ See B.W.Farcau, "The Ten Cents War", page 40:

Inconsistent style

^ a b See Diego Barros Arana, "Historia de la Guerra del Pacifico", Vol. I, page 59.

Primary thus SYN OR

^ See Gonzalo Bulnes, Chile and Peru, the Causes of the War of 1879 page 42

Consistency

^ The Peruvian Historian stated See also Jorge Basadre, here (retrieved on 9 Juli 2009):

Inappropriate national characterisation, completely incomprehensible. Inappropriate external link. Probably not scholarly publication. Quotation untranslated.

^ See Diego Barros Arana, "Historia de la Guerra del Pacifico, 1879-1880", pages 68-70: Los chilenos quedaron así dueños de todo el desierto de Atacama hasta la frontera del Perú.

Consistency, Primary, untranslated. SYN OR

^ Jorge Basadre, Historia de la Republica del Peru, vol. VI, p. 40.

Incomplete citation. 6 volume work, what about the volume or chapter titles, did Basadre write the lot? Who's the publisher (or is this Vanity?)

^ a b c d La Guerra del Pacífico. Francisco A. Machuca. Valparaíso "Mientras el señor Lavalle gozaba de relativa tregua, y estudiaba las causas de la poca prisa del Gobierno chileno para continuar las negociaciones, éste, en constante comunicación con nuestro Ministro Godoy, quedaba impuesto el 18 de Marzo, por comunicación del día anterior, 17, de la existencia del pacto secreto, y de una nota clara y terminante de nuestro Ministro al Gobierno de Lima...Por fin, el 31 de Marzo, el señor Lavalle se apersonó al señor Ministro de Relaciones y le dió conocimiento del tratado secreto, que acababa de recibir de Lima, en circunstancia que hacía días, el general Prado le había confesado su existencia a nuestro Ministro Godoy, en una conferencia tenida en Chorrillos."

PRIMARY: SYN OR Untranslated, not in bibliography.

^ See W.F.Sater, "Andean Tragedy", in page 36: Unfortunately, Peru insisted that Chile withdraw from the recently seized Bolivian litoral as a precondition for starting discussion with La Paz, and in page 37: By late March, most of Santiago believed that Peru had thrown its suport to Bolivia and that it would declare warr on Chile as soon as it had readied its armed forces

Spelling

^ Bulnes, Gonzalo. Chile and Peru : the causes of the war of 1879. pp. 147.

Not in bibliography. Incomplete citation: unacceptable. Scholarly publisher or not?

^ [9] Bulnes Gonzalo, Guerra del Pacífico, Tomo 1: De Antofagasta a Tarapacá. Page 148

Not in bibliography. Incomplete citation: unacceptable. Untranslated title. Scholarly publisher or not.

^ Peruvian Congress March, 24 1879

PRIMARY: SYN OR. Not in bibliography.

^ See Jorge Besadre, "Historia de la Republica, La guerra con Chile", or here (retrieved on 09.September 2009):

Consistency AGAIN

La versión chilena fue que Bolivia quiso impedir que Chile se armara. En realidad, Daza buscó la forma de malograr la misión Lavalle. Una vez más la legación peruana en La Paz había fallado porque, según el tratado secreto, un acto de esta especie debía haberse hecho previo acuerdo de las partes. Al no estar declarada la guerra entre Chile y Bolivia, Chile no podía pedir al Perú que se mantuviera neutral. Porque la había declarado Bolivia, la exigencia chilena de neutralidad peruana era inevitable. La declaración boliviana de guerra era (dice el historiador chileno Bulnes) un palo atravesado en las ruedas del carro empujado por Lavalle.

Translation AGAIN

^ See Bruce W. Farcau, "The ten Cents War", Praegers Publishers, 88 Post Road West, Westport, CT 06881, ISBN 0-275-96925-8, Chapter 5, page 65:

Consistency AGAIN. This is not how location data is presented in citations.

As the earlier discussion of the geography of the Atacama region illustrates, control of the sea lanes along the coastwould be absolutely vital to the success of a land campaign there

Typo transcription (lack of space)

^ See W.F.Sater, "Andean Tragedy", page 102 and ff: … to anyone willing to sail under Bolivia's colors …

FF is lazy citation. Give page numbers.

^ http://books.google.com/books?id=BsxISMTwsSUC&pg=PA77&dq=Carabineros+de+Yungay+Hu%C3%A1scar&lr= Page 56

GROSSLY UNACCEPTABLE CITATION For all of these Google books rips, when you uncover the citation, please place them in the bibliography

^ http://books.google.com/books?id=0osTAQAAIAAJ&source=gbs_navlinks_s Page 37-42

GROSSLY UNACCEPTABLE CITATION

^ Pinochet Ugarte, Augusto (1972). Guerra del Pacífico, 1879. California: Instituto Geográfico Militar. p. 44. Retrieved July 22, 2009.

Untranslated title, not in bibliography, publisher is highly suspect as a vanity press.

^ http://books.google.com/books?id=7sd-AAAAMAAJ&q=Miguel+grau+seis+meses&dq=Miguel+grau+seis+meses Page 71

GROSSLY UNACCEPTABLE CITATION

^ http://books.google.com/books?id=UKPUAAAAMAAJ&source=gbs_navlinks_s Pages 89 and 129-131

GROSSLY UNACCEPTABLE CITATION

^ http://books.google.com/books?id=43EKAQAAIAAJ&source=gbs_navlinks_s Pages 221-222

GROSSLY UNACCEPTABLE CITATION

^ http://books.google.com/books?id=BsxISMTwsSUC&pg=PA77&dq=Carabineros+de+Yungay+Hu%C3%A1scar&lr= Page 77-78

GROSSLY UNACCEPTABLE CITATION

^ http://books.google.com/books?id=43EKAQAAIAAJ&source=gbs_navlinks_s Page 244-246

GROSSLY UNACCEPTABLE CITATION

^ http://books.google.com/books?id=KYQTAQAAIAAJ&source=gbs_navlinks_s Page 130

GROSSLY UNACCEPTABLE CITATION

^ http://books.google.com/books?id=RmVjAAAAMAAJ&source=gbs_navlinks_s Page 49

GROSSLY UNACCEPTABLE CITATION

^ http://books.google.com/books?id=SPNjAAAAMAAJ&source=gbs_navlinks_s Page 54

GROSSLY UNACCEPTABLE CITATION

^ Luna Vegas, Emilio (1978). Cáceres, genio militar. Peru: Librería Editorial Minerva-Miraflores. p. 19. Retrieved July 22, 2009.

Not in bibliography, title untranslated.

^ Valdés Vergara, Francisco (1908). Historia de Shile para la enseñanza primaria. California: Sociedad "Imprenta y litografía Universo". p. 319. Retrieved July 22, 2009.

Not in bibliography, title untranslated. Aged work. Suspect publisher.

^ Elías Murguía, Julio J. (1980). Marinos peruanos en Arica. Peru: Instituto de Estudios Histórico-Maritimos del Perú. p. 38. Retrieved July 22, 2009.

Not in bibliography, title untranslated.

^ Basadre, Jorge (1961). Historia de la República del Perú. Michigan: Ediciones "Historia". p. 2538. Retrieved July 22, 2009.

Citation consistency, which of the many Basadre works is this? Is it in the Bibliography?

^ Calero y Moreira, Jacinto (1794). Mercurio peruano. Peru: Biblioteca Nacional del Perú. pp. 44-46. Retrieved July 22, 2009.

Not in bibliography, title untranslated. PRIMARY: SYN OR.

^ See Bruce W. Farcau, "The ten Cents War", Praegers Publishers, 88 Post Road West, Westport, CT 06881, ISBN 0-275-96925-8, Chapter 7, page 120:

Consistency. Chapters in a book are not cited when the book is single author single volume. Incorrect citation of location. No year given here.

^ ee Bruce W. Farcau, "The ten Cents War", Praegers Publishers, 88 Post Road West, Westport, CT 06881, ISBN 0-275-96925-8, Chapter 7, page 120:

Spelling / typo, Consistency. Chapters in a book are not cited when the book is single author single volume. Incorrect citation of location. No year given here.

^ See Bruce W. Farcau, "The Ten Cents War", Praegers Publishers, 88 Post Road West, Westport, CT 06881, ISBN 0-275-96925-8, Chapter 7, page 121:

Consistency. Chapters in a book are not cited when the book is single author single volume. Incorrect citation of location. No year given here.

^ See W.F.Sater, "Andean Tragedy", page 208:

Spacing in name

^ See W.F.Sater, "Chile and the war of the Pacific", page 180:

Spacing in name

^ See B.W.Farcau, "The Ten Cents War", page 152: Lynch's force consisted f the 1° Line Regiment and the Regiments "Talca" and "Colchagua", a battery of mountain howitzers, and a small cavalry squadron for a total of twenty-two hundred man

Spacing in name, incorrect transcription "consisted f"??, consistency

^ Diego Barros Arana, Historia de la guerra del Pacífico (1879-1880), vol. 2, page 98: [El gobierno chileno] Creía entonces que todavía era posible demostrar prácticamente al enemigo la imposibilidad en que se hallaba para defender el territorio peruano no ya contra un ejército numeroso sino contra pequeñas divisiones. Este fué el objeto de una espedicion que las quejas, los insultos i las lamentaciones de los documentos oficiales del Perú, i de los escritos de su prensa, han hecho famosa.

PRIMARY, SYN OR, untranslated,

^ See also Jorge Basadre, "Historia de la Republica del Peru", Tomo V, Editorial Peruamerica S.A., Lima-Peru, 1964, page 2475,

Consistency, specificity, "Tomo" or volume? Volume title in multi volume work

^ See W.F.Sater, "Andean Tragedy", page 260 and ff

FF bad

^ Diego Barros Arana quotes Johann Caspar Bluntschli: Bluntschili (Derecho internacional codificado) dice espresamente lo que sigue: Árt. 544. Cuando el enemigo ha tomado posesión efectiva de una parte del territorio, el gobierno del otro estado deja de ejercer alli el poder. Los habitantes del territorio ocupado están eximidos de todos los deberes i obligaciones respecto del gobierno anterior, i están obligados a obedecer a los jefes del ejército de ocupación.

Untranslated, unacceptably cited, PRIMARY?

^ http://books.google.com/books?id=DGexys3TxhQC&pg=PA104&dq=Italia+Guerra+del+Pacifico Page 97

GROSSLY UNACCEPTABLE

^ See American Mediation: Peace Talks on the Lackawanna

Unacceptable incomplete citation, not in bibliography.

^ B.W.Farcau, "The Ten Cents War", page 130:

spacing

^ See W.F.Sater, "Andean Tragedy", page 217 and ff.

spacing & FF

^ See W.F.Sater, "Andean Tragedy", table on page 222

spacing

^ See W.F.Sater, "Andean Tragedy", page 222:

spacing

^ B.W.Farcau in "The Ten Cents War", page 138 specifies 3,100 men in Arequipa, 2,000 men in Arica and 9,000 men in Tacna, but this figures contradict the total numbers given (below) by W.F.Sater in page 229

spacing

^ See B.W.Farcau, "The Ten Cents War", page 138:

spacing, consistency: Stop using "See", just give the citations.

^ See also W.F.Sater, "Andean Tragedy", page 227:

spacing

^ See W.F.Sater, "Andean Tragedy", page 229

spacing

^ See W.F.Sater, "Andean Tragedy", page 256

spacing

^ See B.W.Farcau, "The Tens Cents War", page 147

spacing

^ See B.W.Farcau, "The Ten Cents War", page 149-150:

spacing

^ See B.W.Farcau, "The Tens Cents War", page 157:

spacing

^ See B.W.Farcau, "The Ten Cents War", page 259

spacing

^ See W.F.Sater, "Andan Tragedy", page 276 and ff.

spacing, FF

^ B.W.Farcau, "The Ten Cents War", page 157 gives 26,000 men but W.F.Sater, "Andean Tragedy", page 274, gives 25,000 to 32,000 men

spacing

^ a b See B.W.Farcau, "The Ten Cents War", page 164:

spacing

^ Villalobos, Sergio. [[10] Chile y Perú: la historia que nos une y nos separa, 1535-1883]. p. 185. Retrieved 28. September 2009.

Unacceptable citation, untranslated title, possible inappropriate survey work

^ See Charles de Varigny, "La Guerra del Pacifico", Imprenta Cervantes, Moneda 1170, Santiago de Chile, 1922, page XVIII: rendía incondicionalmente. La soldadesca [peruana] desmoralizada y no desarmada saqueaba la ciudad en la noche del 16, el incendio la alumbraba siniestramente y el espanto reinaba en toda ella.

English roman page numbers do not take capitals, unless miniscule and capitals are both used in the book. Untranslated titles and quotes. Aged (if not primary). Not in bibliography

^ See Jorge Besadre, "Historia de la Republica del Peru, La guerra con Chile", Chapter 'Los horrores de Chorrillos':

Untranslated, incomplete citation, no page refs

^ See W.F.Sater, "Andean Tragedy", page 296.

Spacing

^ See W.F.Sater, "Andean Tragedy", page 302:

Spacing

^ See Bruce W. Farcau, "The ten Cents War", Praegers Publishers, 88 Post Road West, Westport, CT 06881, ISBN 0-275-96925-8, Chapter 11, page 173

Spacing, consistency

^ http://books.google.com/books?id=ugOWI0kGA0UC&dq=Guerra+del+Pacifico+Uruguay&lr=&source=gbs_navlinks_s Page 109

Grossly unacceptable'

^ see W.F.Sater, "Andean Tragedy", page 309 and ff

Spacing, ff

^ See William F. Sater, "Andean Tragedy", page 312:

spacing

^ See W.F.Sater, "Andean Tragedy", page 315 and ff

spacing, ff

^ See W.F.Sater, "Andean Tragedy", page 304-306:

spacing

^ a b See W.F.Sater, "Andean Tragedy", page 329 ^ See W.F.Sater, "Andean Tragedy", page 306 ^ See W.F.Sater, "Andean Tragedy", page 329-330 ^ See B.W.Farcau, "The Ten Cents War", page 181-182 ^ See W.F.Sater, "Andean Tragedy", page 317-338 ^ See B.W.Farcau, "The Ten Cents War" pages 183-187 ^ See W.F.Sater, "Chile and the War Of The Pacific", page 220: ^ See W.F.Sater, "Andean Tragedy", page 90:

all spacing.

^ Diego Barros Arana, Historia de la guerra del Pacífico (1879-1880), Volumen 1, page 115

Untranslated, incomplete, Primary, Volume not in english

^ See Jorge Basadre, "Historia de la Republica del Peru, La guerra con Chile", Chapter 'La vida en Lima durante la ocupacion': la Biblioteca Nacional despojada de muchos de sus libros;

Untranslated, incomplete, not in bibliography as such

^ Dan Collyns. "Chile returns looted Peru books". BBC. Retrieved 2007-11-10.

Incomplete: unacceptable, not in bibliography

^ http://www.history.appstate.edu/ConferencePapers/dorotheamartinpaper.pdf

Incomplete, unacceptable, no indication of the conference, no link to the conference to check the paper was peer reviewed, not in bibliography

^ See "The Ambiguous Relationship: Theodore Roosevelt and Alfred Thayer Mahan" by Richard W. Turk; Greenwood Press, 1987. 183 pgs. page 10

Not in bibliography

^ See Larrie D. Ferreiro 'Mahan and the "English Club” of Lima, Peru: The Genesis of The Influence of Sea Power upon History', The Journal of Military History - Volume 72, Number 3, July 2008, pp. 901-906

Not in bibliography

^ See B.W.Farcau, "The Ten Cents War", page2: it has largela been ignored outside the region as neither the USA nor any major European power had a stake in the game

Spacing, Spelling

^ El dia del mar se recordara con mas que un tradicional desfile civico

Entirely unacceptable citation, not in bibliography, section referred to not specified

^ Crow, The Epic of Latin America, p. 180

Incomplete, not in bibliography

^ Foster, John B. & Clark, Brett. (2003). "Ecological Imperialism: The Curse of Capitalism" (accessed 2 September 2005). The Socialist Register 2004, p190-192. Also available in print from Merlin Press.

Not in bibliography, advert spam at end

^ Dominguez, Jorge et al. 2003 Boundary Disputes in Latin America. United States Washington, D.C.: Institute of Peace.

Not in bibliography, was this a multiple authored book, or a book of edited chapters, if the latter, entirely unacceptable citation: incomplete. Not in bibliography, section referred to not specified.

^ See Chile: physical features, natural resources, means of communication by George J. Mills, William Henry Koebel (page 39)

Unacceptable citation, not in bibliography

^ http://www.monitor.upeace.org/archive.cfm?id_article=301#_ftn3

Unacceptable, not in bibliography, probably will result that this is not an RS

^ See Mariano Felipe Paz Soldan, "Relacion Historica de la Guerra de Chile contra el Per y Bolivia" page 102,:

Unacceptable citation, not in bibliography, not translated.

^ See also speech of Profesor Belisario Llosa Rivera, cited by Jorge Basadre Grohmann "Historia de la Republica" or here: Pero, al mismo tiempo, expresó su certeza de que, en diez años de unión, orden, economía, y laboriosidad, el Perú sería un gran país, capaz de vengarse.

Provide a proper citation, and translation. Even then, this may be non RS

^ See Five Sad Reasons to Worry about Peru (retrieved 24. September 2009):

Provide a proper citation, and translation. Even then, this may be non RS

^ See Hardi Schindler, "Konflikte in Südamerika", page 56, here: Die Befürchtungen vor einer chilenisch-bolivianischen Einigung auf seine Kosten und der latenten Revanchismus des peruanischen Militärs wegen der Gebietsverluste an Chile und Brasilien verstärken den Anspruch des Landes, an allen eventuellen Verhandlungen gemäß dem Vertrag von 1929 beteiligt zu werden (Translation: The fear an Chilean-Bolivian agreement at the expense of Peru and the latent revanchism of the Peruvian military because of the lost of territories to Chile and Brasil bolster up the demand of the country [Peru] to be part of any negotiation according the treaty of 1929)

Citation not translated, citation incomplete, not in bibliography.

^ See Speech of former President of Argentina in Latin America at a Crossroads (retrieved 24 September 2009):

Cite correctly, may not be RS, add to bibliography

Moving on

Hi Fifelfoo,

I edited and normalized almost every reference. I think most of flaws were trivial, like incomplete citation, not in bibliography, spacing, Unacceptable citation format (!) and such kind of bagatelle. I replaced some dubious source with references to Farcau or Sater.

But some problems are still there:

  • Jorge Basadre. There are quotatins from his book, with page nr, chapter, etc, and sometimes are quotations from the webpage of the (web version) of his book, no page nr, no publishers etc. Jorge Basadre is a serious Peruvian historian, a University in Peru bear his name. We need sometime to normalize the quotations. In no way the inconsistence of the quotations means that Basadre has to be disqualified as "full of dreck, OR, PRIMARY". It means only that you have to use both media, the book and the website, to verify the content of the article. Sorry.
  • Case Treaty of Alliance Peru-Bolivia. There are a lot of references in "Unacceptable citation format", aged, etc. The intention of the "collection" isn't to show the book self or the author but to demostrate that a significant part of historians considered the alliance as defensive and a significant part of historians considered the alliance as offensive. It was the only way we found: gathering the opinion of the historian and the lists are the result: one list for defensive and one list for offensive. You can see the comical discussion in Talk:War of the Pacific/Archive 4. Actually it is obvious that a pact will be interpreted differently in inaccordance with the circumtances: for example the Hitler-Stalin Pact had different interpretations in Germany, in Poland and in the UdSSR and this interpretations changed before, after the beginning of the WW2 and changed again after the End of the WW2. But that seems obscure for some wikipedians that wanted to declare the Peru-Bolivia Alliance as defensive and only used defensive and they are still smouldering as you note in your Talk page. I will be happy to agree to delete both lists but YOU have to write the replacement text for the article and the explain in this Talk page. I consider the lists a tradeoff with the shortcomings of the Wikipedia community. (there are wikipedians with a poor english, for example, do you know someone?)
  • Case Bolivia's Declaration War. We had the same problem. There are wikipedians that wanted to hide the DoW despite the facs (see Farcau and Sater). Again a long list was the only solution. But now I deleted all but Farcau, Sater and the Iowa reference. That should be enough. If a editwar begins again I will add the list again.

I think the references are now much better. The content remains unchanged. Please take a look in-depth this time and tell me your valuable opinion. --Keysanger (talk) 17:21, 2 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Your citations are still unacceptable. Fix the bibliography. Fix the ff citations. Normalise them, one doesn't "See" a citation. I extensively reviewed the citation format and use; you've fiddled at the edges of a few easy search-and-replace fixes. I have no interest in interrogating the content until the article actually cites its sources, clearly differentiates primary from secondary, and demonstrates what it is quoting from where, in an appropriate format. There are slab quotes not in English. There is obvious (extensive) synthesis of primary sources rather than writing out of secondary sources. There are still citations without publication & author information, or title translations. Most disturbingly, many citations aren't in the bibliography. You've glossed over the RFC and attempted to "move on" despite deep failings in the basic writing of this article. Fifelfoo (talk) 14:47, 3 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

No neutral

Text and maps only shows one POV

  • First map shows only chilean borders in black
  • "After an illegal..."
  • "The war officially began on 1879, after the Bolivian declaration of war..."
  • "Chile, the smallest country of the three..."
  • "Bolivia increased the tax on nitrate in spite of..."
  • "Rivalry between Chile and Peru..."
  • "Occupation of Antofagasta and Peruvian Mediation..."
  • "On March 1. 1879 Bolivian dictator Hilarión Daza declared war on Chile..."
  • "The US-American historian William F. Sater ..."
  • "from the Chilean ships and occupied the Bolivian port city of Antofagasta..."
  • "Once the naval superiority was achieved..."
  • "Downfall of President Prado in Peru and Daza in Bolivia..."
  • "Lynch's Expedition..."
  • "but Peruvian authors accuse drunken Chilean soldiers of the damages and crimes..."
  • "Occupation of Peru..." and many others.

Arafael (talk) 15:41, 3 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It isn't enough to say "bad". You have to say why the text is POV. Please don't consider only your references from reliable sources (only) but also others and don't forget to read WP:due weight. --Keysanger (talk) 16:38, 3 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Chronology : 10 cents tax

Do not write events during the war in sections dedicated to events before the war and don't use primary sources as reference for sentences. --Keysanger (talk) 18:42, 3 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I deleted a second time your contributuion.

The Bolivian and the Chilean tax increses are well documented facts, but the direct arrangement of facts separated by a broken boundary treaty and 3 years of war (1878-1880) is delicated because we have to expose all the facts occured during this time period. The direct deduction of the comparison is "Chilean are hypocrites because they took what they denied to Bolivians" and that would be POV because as Farcau stated Bruce W. Farcau, "The Ten Cents War", page 41,:

"The very fact that the legislature in La Paz found it necessary to vote in what they claimed was a strictly municipal issue when the tax was first levied implied that the conflict with the 1874 treaty was clearly seen and that a conscious precedent was being set"

The issue was not the 10 cents but that "a conscious precedent was being set". Best regards, --Keysanger (talk) 11:11, 4 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

CoL

I AGREE your contribution, but don't use Markham as source because it is a primary source (and pro-Peruvian biased). Farcau and Sater support your statament, so you won't have problems to find references. If you can't finf them I will do it tomorrow. Also you have to respect the due weight: the batle of chorrillos is described only with 57 words, therefore the preparation should be shorter. --Keysanger (talk) 20:32, 3 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

"pro peruvian"? Sater is based in Chileans sources so he is pro-Chilean(¿?), no tiene sentido y tú lo sabes Rasdar2 (talk) 20:42, 3 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Can you support the statement: "Sater is based in Chileans sources so he is pro-Chilean" ?. I respect you but I am not interested in your personal opinions. Anyway, it is primary source. Please change it. --Keysanger (talk) 22:41, 3 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Ownership of Article by Keysanger

I think it's obvious by now that User:Keysanger has a severe ownership problem with this article. Just take a look at the article's history and there will be an ocean of "Keysanger" edits throughout it. I think that this should be reported to a Wikipedia administrator as it goes against the spirit of the project.--MarshalN20 | Talk 14:23, 4 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'll agree, and even more, Keysanger discard any editing that is not aligned with the version he thinks proper, including the discarded of primary sources than he considered non-neutral, this behavior is unacceptable and must be stop, even the agreements reached previously are simple ignored by this so-called "wikipedian". Keysanger, this article is not yours, and your version of the facts is quite far from the truth. Greetings --Cloudaoc (talk) 05:51, 5 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Truthiness doesn't matter here, its reliability of sources. Blanking Talk: before an RFC, tendentious reliability editing when the reliability issues of all sources have been listed, Hostile behaviour on Talk:, and attempts to control Talk: by editing other's contributions—ownership issues. I came from an RFC Keysanger called for; contributed extensively regarding the sourcing problems (primarily using Primaries (of any kind) to attempt to verify). Keysanger selectively dealt with the RFC points I had made, and then claimed to have completed editing in response without arguing why he selectively addressed citation format and sourcing issues. Fifelfoo (talk) 06:21, 5 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]