Commons talk:Picture of the Year: Difference between revisions

• The results are in. Thanks for voting!
• About the contest
• Voting pages
• Rules & eligibility
• Help & feedback

The results are in! View results

·

end

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Task	Status	Remarks
Choosing the dates	Done	Beta testing (all votes cast will be kept) from 25 September 2024, 19:42 until 30 September, 23:59:59. Round 1 from 1 October 2024, 00:00 until 14 October 2024, 23:59:59. Round 2 from 15 October 2024, 00:00 until 28 October 2024, 23:59:59
Fulfill interface request	Done	1, 2, and 3
Update committee page	Done	Also json
Update rules page	Done
Update help page	Done
Update the header	Done	Might be improved by adding back translations
Inform uploaders	Delisted	(Message)
Request CentralNotice	Done	Round 1
Inform previous voters	Done	Round 1 (Message)
Place banners	Done	Round 1 (banner enabled and will be placed automatically on October 1st)
Start round 1	Done	Round 1 started on September 25th with beta launch
Request CentralNotice	Done	Round 2
Inform previous voters		Round 2
Place banners	Done	Round 2 (banner enabled and will be placed automatically on October 15th)
Start round 2
End contest
Announce winners
Announce result via MMS

• For everyone, please update the TO DO lists accordingly. Regards, ZI Jony ^(Talk) 20:07, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
•  Done Interface requests fulfilled by a Inter-face admin -- Giles Laurent (talk) 11:50, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
•  Done (but might be improved) I just tried bringing back the header top with this new template that is a copy paste from the 2020 version but without the Share + Control Panel buttons. As I'm very unexpercienced with wikicodes etc I was not able to keep the translations that were done in the past. Also, some edits still have to be done with some links and later on depending on the state. If any errors were made or if anyone just wants to improve the header please feel free to edit it. If the header causes any trouble, feel free to delete it back -- Giles Laurent (talk) 22:07, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
•  Half done As time is ticking I decided to help a bit by making a first draft edit of the rules page. Basically I just changed the +2 images to +5%, edited a few words and the old dates that stated "Februrary 2024" with a new temporary placeholder dates that are in the future. Feel free to enhance the page with any other needed edit or to revert my edits. One thing I'm not sure about and therefore didn't edit : the voting eligibility. According to this message, eligibility was changed this year to make it simpler. So :

- For eligibility rule number 1 I have a doubt. This message says that now it's "Registered before the start of the year". Does "year" mean the current year or the year that is in the POTY name? (Is it 01.01.2023 or 01.01.2024 for POTY 2023? Historically it has been 01.01.2021 for POTY 2020 for example)

- on eligibility rule number two I guess that this should be deleted : " by the end of the year the contest is being held for. For example, for POTY 2023, you must have reached the edit threshold before 1 January 2024 UTC. An automated tool has been set up to check eligibility.".

- For rule number 3 I'm not sure if it should be deleted or if nothing changed.

@Ingenuity as you edited the eligibility code could you please enlighten me on what applies now? Thank you in advance -- Giles Laurent (talk) 21:37, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Message for last year voters marked for translation, please translate in your native language. Regards, ZI Jony ^(Talk) 12:59, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Please feel free to report anything that might be broken/not working with the scripts. -- Giles Laurent (talk) 11:55, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Ingenuity, when I visit the gallery pages and click on "view file" everything works. But when I click on the image itself, I often get errors. On this page for example I get one of the two following errors when clicking on the picture itself: 404 type error and "bad title" error -- Giles Laurent (talk) 12:03, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  @Giles Laurent: that should be fixed now. Ingenuity (talk) 13:18, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  ...or not. It works some of the time, but for some reason it still fails sometimes. I'll check it out later. Ingenuity (talk) 13:19, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Tested and it works now. Ingenuity (talk) 19:50, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Amazing, thank you! -- Giles Laurent (talk) 19:58, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Ingenuity according to this screenshot there might be some bugs that have maybe not been corrected since :

- Two images are in first place but one has 2 votes and the other has only 1 vote, so the one with one vote should be in second place and not first place

- The last image on second place has 0 vote while the others have one vote so the image in second place with 0 vote should have been in third place

- According to this page and the new 5% rule there should be minimum 56 finalists for this year while there is only 13 images on this screenshot. Is it because the other finalists are displayed on another page ? (If so, there should be a link at the bottom to show the full score of all finalists like previous years. Example : 2022 winners + all results -- Giles Laurent (talk) 20:05, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

For the last point: I checked again the title of the page on your screenshot and it's the 2023/Results/All page and on that page there's normally all finalists (i. e. all pictures that participated in round 2 and their score), so it's supposed to be at least 56 finalists -- Giles Laurent (talk) 20:29, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

On this testwiki page of round 2 voting I only see 9 finalists to vote for while there's supposed to be 56 minimum finalists during round 2 this year so I guess it's a bug? Screenshot available here (click) -- Giles Laurent (talk) 22:57, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Giles Laurent: thanks for pointing out the error with place numbers, I've fixed the script now. As for the number of finalists, that's not a problem - when testing the script I only voted for a few finalists, but that won't be an issue for the actual contest. Ingenuity (talk) 19:04, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• @Ingenuity, when I visit the gallery pages from mobile its just loading! Could you clarify or fix it. Regards, ZI Jony ^(Talk) 19:15, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Could you specify what web browser you are using and if javascript is enabled? Using chrome on my phone everything seems to work on the gallery page. Maybe you have this bug because now "importScript("User:Ingenuity/poty-gallery.js")" should be removed from your common.js page? -- Giles Laurent (talk) 19:20, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Giles Laurent, I use chrome on my phone, and I've removed script from my common.js page. However, it’s work well in vector skin, maybe problem is in only for MinervaNeue skin! Regards, ZI Jony ^(Talk) 19:33, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the precisions. After testing it, I found out that the problem doesn't come out of the skin but that it comes out of beeing on commons.m.wikimedia.org instead of commons.wikimedia.org. When I'm on the phone on commons.wikimedia.org using chrome (with "view computer version" selected) the gallery loads no matter the skin I use. But when I'm on commons.m.wikimedia.org, no image load, no matter if it's on computer or phone. As a lot of voters are likely to vote from their phone, it would be nice to have it fixed for commons.m.wikimedia.org. If we don't find any way to fix that then it will be needed to say on the FAQ that it's necessary to use the "view computer version" and to not be on the "m" subdomain -- Giles Laurent (talk) 20:03, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have submitted an edit request to fix this. Ingenuity (talk) 13:45, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The request has now been implemented, and it seems to be working. Ingenuity (talk) 18:00, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Ingenuity, not a very serious issue because only a few images are affected but for example in the Other birds category, there is this file that is not loading in the preview because of it's tif format. Maybe there's a way to display the jpg version for tif pictures ? All smaller resolution links under a tif file are jpg : example full resolution in jpg example thumbnail in jpg.

There is the same issue with these two svg candidates from the Non photographic media category : 1 and 2 -- Giles Laurent (talk) 11:00, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That should be fixed when my edit request is implemented. Ingenuity (talk) 23:02, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Ingenuity, no candidates are loading in the Uncategorized and other category and according to this old version of the voting pages there should be 12 candidate pictures in there or 3 candidates according to this json data -- Giles Laurent (talk) 11:23, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Good catch, @Giles Laurent; that's fixed now. Ingenuity (talk) 13:53, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Ingenuity, I voted for many pictures yesterday and I visited the galleries again today and 90% of my votes don't appear anymore (the vote button was green before and is not green anymore). Example : I don't see the vote button in green anymore for this picture although my vote for it is still there. Also, depending on the device I use (phone or computer), I see again the votes casted in some galleries but not all of them. -- Giles Laurent (talk) 10:28, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  @Giles Laurent: votes are stored locally on your computer, so if you vote on one device it won't show up on another. However, if you click the "vote" button again it will tell you that you have already voted for the image. Ingenuity (talk) 14:33, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Ingenuity, the "View file" link doesn't work for files that have an apostrophe (') in their file name. For example in the mammals category, you can't click on "View file" for this file -- Giles Laurent (talk) 16:23, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Thanks for finding that. It will be fixed the next time I submit an edit request. Ingenuity (talk) 20:16, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Ingenuity, I just compared all json with files displayed and there's two categories that look like having missing images. On the Other places json there is 130 candidates (you can easily count by doing Ctrl+F " "title": ") and on Other places gallery page there is only 129 candidates (you can easily count by doing Ctrl+F "View file"). Same problem with Other objects json having 71 candidates (you can easily count by doing Ctrl+F " "title": ") while on Other objects gallery there is only 69 candidates (you can easily count by doing Ctrl+F "View file") -- Giles Laurent (talk) 19:19, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  That appears to be because the missing images were deleted after I ran the script to create the gallery pages. Shouldn't be a problem. Ingenuity (talk) 20:16, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• The file locations for the pics aren't shown, so I can't watch any good pics. Smarkflea (talk) 19:45, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Ingenuity, I checked the finalist generator script and it seems to me that something hasn't been taken into account (but I might be wrong). The problem with line 547 of the code is that is seems to me that it will only gather 30 files when sorted by top number of votes but it will not check how many votes the image number 30 had and compare it with the following files. Because in 31th position (or even in 32th position too) might be a picture with exactly the same number of votes as the picture on 30th position but only one of them is likely to get selected with the actual writing of the script. I think it would be unfair to have two pictures with for example 200 votes in 30rd position but only one of them selected as finalist when there was in fact a tie for 30rd position. There is in my opinion the same problem with the writing of the code on lines 560 to 575 when selecting the top 5% finalists. If a category should for example have 3 finalists, it might be possible that there is a tie for third position and in that case all pictures in that tie should get to finalist and not only a random one of them automatically selected by file name alphabetical order or date of FP promotion. Since I'm not a javascript expert I might have just misunderstood the script and maybe you already have taken this into account but I just wanted to make sure it's the case because to me it looks like it's not the case -- Giles Laurent (talk) 09:56, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

With 10 days left until the start date, I think we've done everything that needs to be done (with the possible exception of notifying previous voters, but that's not entirely necessary). The CentralNotice has been requested but not approved yet, so hopefully that happens in time. I think all bugs with the script should be resolved, but please let me know ASAP if any more are found. Ingenuity (talk) 14:07, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I pinged a couple CN admins yesterday. It sounds like it'll be resolved this weekend. — Rhododendrites ^talk |  15:14, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks to everyone for making POTY happen this year. I think we're good to go. There's just one final bug I've found that I don't know how to resolve : on this page there is a link for the POTY 2023 edition but when I click on any other langage, there is no link to 2023 anymore. Does someone know how to solve this? -- Giles Laurent (talk) 15:28, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Giles Laurent, the latest version of that page has not yet been marked for translation! I have already requested to do that. Regards, ZI Jony ^(Talk) 19:30, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, it is now solved for this page but there is a bug on all langages (except english) on this page now : Example on french version, Example on german version : button not appearing and red error message. When I click on translate to try to solve the problem it doesn't work -- Giles Laurent (talk) 08:51, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Found the origin of the problem for the button, it's because the code was

{{Commons:Picture of the Year/{{SUBPAGENAME}}/button}}

and since any other langage than english ends with /fr or /de instead of /2023 it doesn't work on the other langages. I've now changed the code to

{{Commons:Picture of the Year/2023/button}}

but the page needs to be marked again for translation. Also there's a paragraph that's not marked for translation. As for the other problem, I've not found the solution -- Giles Laurent (talk) 08:58, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I just updated the page and requested to mark for translation. Regards, ZI Jony ^(Talk) 09:08, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

One question to Rhododendrites : does the mass message for previous voters need to be requested days in advance or can it be done directly on October 1st? -- Giles Laurent (talk) 15:32, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think I've used massmessage on Commons before. AFAIK you just need (a) a list of users to send it to (a page with just such a list) and (b) the message itself, then convince an admin to send it out. But are you talking about the round 2 note that Lego sent out last year (you voted in round 1 but not round 2 -- here's a heads up) or a message to people who participated in a previous POTY? — Rhododendrites ^talk |  19:03, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Giles Laurent, message for round 1 is here, and list of target users is here. Required Admin rights to send massmessage here on Wikimedia Commons. @AntiCompositeNumber: , could you please send out the massmessage for round 1 on September 30? Regards, ZI Jony ^(Talk) 19:40, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If it officially opens 10/1, we should probably send it out 10/1. That first day is really for testing, no? — Rhododendrites ^talk |  21:01, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That's sounds good to me. Regards, ZI Jony ^(Talk) 21:03, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@AntiCompositeNumber, as it is now October 1st, could you please send this message to these targets? Thank you in advance! -- Giles Laurent (talk) 15:59, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Giles Laurent I don't touch MassMessage, sorry. AntiCompositeNumber (talk) 16:04, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No problem, thank you for your answer! I now made a request here -- Giles Laurent (talk) 16:16, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I was talking about this message to be sent on October 1st (but also oabout the other message to be send with round 2). I was just wondering if, like CentralNotice, it was necessary to write a request on a page a few days in advance but I now got the answer (any admin can just do it on the given day) thank you. -- Giles Laurent (talk) 08:49, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, yeah, CentralNotice is a much more bureaucratic process with just a few people who manage it. — Rhododendrites ^talk |  10:46, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Rhododendrites : no news from CN admins? First round banner will need to be in place in 8 days. I saw that many other requests started after yours were approved before yours and that yours is still without any response after 14 days -- Giles Laurent (talk) 09:56, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Round 1 centralnotice just now enabled. Good to go! — Rhododendrites ^talk |  18:09, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

just asking, is it confirmed to start tomorrow? i will include a note in Commons:Commons Gazette. RZuo (talk) 16:25, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@RZuo: Yes. In fact, it's already open [early for beta testing]. The CentralNotice will go up tomorrow. Thanks! — Rhododendrites ^talk |  16:27, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

FYI I have archived the various resolved discussions sorting out POTY planning, so as not to confuse anyone coming to this page when we officially start tomorrow. Anyone looking for them can find them here: Commons talk:Picture of the Year/Archive 1. — Rhododendrites ^talk |  16:31, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

While it was the plan to start beta testing 24 hours before the contest officially starts, I think it's better to start it early to resolve any problems with the script - 24 hours might not be enough time to find and resolve all possible bugs. I think all the prep work for the contest is now done, and I've spent today fixing a few minor bugs. Once my edit request to the script is implemented, I'll open up the voting. Ingenuity (talk) 22:52, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with you, I think it's better to start beta asap so that eventual other bugs may be discovered and fixed before official date -- Giles Laurent (talk) 23:43, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sure. Should we invite some others? — Rhododendrites ^talk |  01:51, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What do you mean by inviting some others? I thought that launching beta would just mean clicking on the POTY admin button start round 1 earlier than official date and that everyone would get access to it -- Giles Laurent (talk) 08:41, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If nobody knows it's live, we won't get much beta testing apart from those of us watching this page and a handful of people who make their way to COM:POTY randomly. By invite others I mean e.g. I could post a request for early participants/beta testers somewhere on Discord (a much smaller audience than the CN will bring). — Rhododendrites ^talk |  12:29, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sure then, I think the more people beta test it, the better it is! -- Giles Laurent (talk) 12:41, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, I looked through all the categories, and I have found some files which seem to be in the wrong category, e.g. File:Aerial image of Alicudi (view from the south).jpg is in Natural views, while File:Aerial image of Stromboli (view from the northeast).jpg is in Natural phenomena. These images are very similar. Not a big deal, but... Yann (talk) 16:26, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Some images do not display, e.g. File:20181204 Warming stripes (global, WMO, 1850-2018) - Climate Lab Book (Ed Hawkins).svg and File:Physical map of Ancient Greece-ru.svg in Non-photographic media. Yann (talk) 16:29, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The bug of images not displaying will be resolved when my edit request is implemented. As for the categorization, those images were automatically sorted because they are in the natural places and natural phenomena FP categories respectively. I don't have any strong opinions on whether these specific images should be moved, but all committee members can feel free to recategorize images at their discretion. Ingenuity (talk) 16:40, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Voting is now open! Feel free to test it out, and let me know if anything doesn't work. Ingenuity (talk) 19:42, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Question : since the category "Uncategorized and other" is now empty, shouldn't we remove the link to it on this page and all voting pages? I think that it's a bit confusing having a link to an empty category -- Giles Laurent (talk) 10:33, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've removed that category now. Ingenuity (talk) 14:36, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you! Can the "Uncategorized and other" category link also be removed on this template ? -- Giles Laurent (talk) 17:40, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm. The "vote for this image" buttons don't seem to do anything for me. Tried on several images in several galleries. It just does nothing. :/ — Rhododendrites ^talk |  13:09, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Rhododendrites, if you delete "importScript("User:Ingenuity/poty-gallery.js");" from this page voting should work again for you I think -- Giles Laurent (talk) 13:12, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Removed it, cleared cache (a couple times), and still didn't respond. Tried removing the admin script, too, and now it works. :) — Rhododendrites ^talk |  13:21, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, I must have made a mistake with the admin script. I'll try to fix it soon, but for now disabling it when you're not using it should work. Ingenuity (talk) 14:35, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not quite a bug, but for next year it would be good for files like File:Hamun by Solmaz Daryani 1 (Crop).jpg if we could find a way to credit the original uploader rather than the person who just made a derivative. — Rhododendrites ^talk |  13:27, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A preview of File:Dülmen, Kirchspiel, ehem. Sondermunitionslager Visbeck, "What if" -- 2023 -- 6686 (kreativ 2).jpg doesn't show up in the "other objects" gallery. — Rhododendrites ^talk |  22:15, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Seems like it's because the file loaded for preview is "https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1b/D%C3%BClmen%2C_Kirchspiel%2C_ehem._Sondermunitionslager_Visbeck%2C_%22What_if%22_--_2023_--_6686_%28kreativ_2%29.jpg/300px-File:Dülmen, Kirchspiel, ehem. Sondermunitionslager Visbeck, " instead of "https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1b/D%C3%BClmen%2C_Kirchspiel%2C_ehem._Sondermunitionslager_Visbeck%2C_%22What_if%22_--_2023_--_6686_%28kreativ_2%29.jpg/300px-File:Dülmen, Kirchspiel, ehem. Sondermunitionslager Visbeck, "What if" -- 2023 -- 6686 (kreativ 2).jpg". @Ingenuity the error comes without a doubt from the quotation mark " in the image title -- Giles Laurent (talk) 09:32, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ingenuity, do you think you might be able to make the thumbnail of this picture load in the Other objects gallery? The reason of it not loading is because of the file name. Right now it's the only picture not loading and it would be nice for all candidates to have a fair start once we reach the official start date since many people will come when banners will be placed October 1st, 00:00. -- Giles Laurent (talk) 09:24, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Edit request submitted. Ingenuity (talk) 15:39, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

So glad it's back! Thanks for your hard work Ingenuity. But I miss the non-categorized view. Can we have the per-month view back or, failing that, one page with all the images? Nardog (talk) 02:06, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oops. It was pointed out on Discord there's a spelling error none of us caught: "People and human actvity". Can't imagine that can be changed at this point, but FYI for afterwards. :) — Rhododendrites ^talk |  13:28, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Well spotted and thanks for the information Rhododendrites. It seems someone tried to fix it and it now caused the People and human activity gallery to not load anymore. The problem comes from this edit that should be reverted as soon as possible. Since the script was written with the mispelling, the name of the page can't be changed by anyone without any changes from Ingenuity first or the script doesn't load anymore. I tried clicking on undo but it says that it's somehow already reverted, which is not the case. This is an emergency that should be taken care of quickly so that pictures from that gallery don't miss any votes. Pinging also ZI Jony. -- Giles Laurent (talk) 14:41, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Also it should be considered to protect POTY pages during the contest to avoid users breaking the gallery during contest -- Giles Laurent (talk) 14:42, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed now. Ingenuity (talk) 14:44, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

thanks — Rhododendrites ^talk |  14:46, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Awesome! Thank you for your extremely swift handling of the situation -- Giles Laurent (talk) 14:47, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, I was out of stations, just now I noticed this message. Ingenuity, thanks for your quick action. Regards, ZI Jony ^(Talk) 17:48, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Heads up for committee members to also watch Commons talk:Picture of the Year/Help — Rhododendrites ^talk |  21:18, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It doesn't look like Commons:Picture of the Year/Translations has been updated, and the link has been removed from the POTY header for this year. How should the gallery pages be translated? AntiCompositeNumber (talk) 15:26, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Please feel free to add back translations to POTY 2023 header and to any other pages that might need it, I have no idea how to do it. Here is the POTY 2022 header version for comparison (very complicated) or the POTY 2020 header version for comparison (less complicated) -- Giles Laurent (talk) 15:45, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Translation markup was added into Template:POTY2023/header. Feel free to translation.
PS: Translation suggestions is helpful for 100% items (e.g. in Russian). --Kaganer (talk) 22:06, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you Kaganer. Could you do the same with this page? -- Giles Laurent (talk) 10:38, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The images are distributed in 21 galleries. It is inconvenient if I want to find images but don't remember the gallery. I believe last year there was an "All images" link. Would be useful to have. Tagooty (talk) 04:33, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ingenuity, I think this could be easily implemented, even during R1 of this year (if you have time), since we already have an all data json -- Giles Laurent (talk) 08:44, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I support the suggestion, I also found it inconvenient to have to go through all categories.Iry-Hor (talk) 11:40, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, this is pretty easy to do. However, since all gallery pages have been protected, an administrator needs to create Commons:Picture of the Year/2023/Gallery/All with the content {{POTY gallery/2023}}. After that's done, the page can be linked to from the main categories page. Ingenuity (talk) 13:31, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, i have no idea how to vote. Please help --STARTER'^user_{contribs anyone?} 12:19, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The "Vote now" button doesn't do anything - I found that confusing as well. You have to go through the different categories (Mammals etc) instead and vote there. Did you try that? Lupe (talk) 10:22, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It looks like you don't meet the eligibility requirements. — Rhododendrites ^talk |  13:59, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Why is File:Microscopic image of crystals growing from melted sulfur (cropped).jpg not included? Nardog (talk) 11:21, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's in Commons:Picture_of_the_Year/2023/Gallery/Other_objects — Rhododendrites ^talk |  13:58, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, I couldn't find it partly because the original image has been renamed since it was promoted. But also it's been delisted and replaced by the cropped version. Shouldn't we be voting for the version that's still a featured picture? Nardog (talk) 14:26, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I contend that the wild goat should be categorized under Mammals rather than Other places since the animal is the focal point of the photo. Kstern (talk) 15:52, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Kstern, recategorized. Regards, ZI Jony ^(Talk) 13:03, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Just something i notice:

1. some descriptions are too long and shown breaking off with ...
   either there should be a way to show the full description or a short alternative should be shown instead.
2. i am fatigued when i reach "Other places". also reviewing this category of 129 files feels quite exhausting.

RoyZuo (talk) 19:28, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm writing concerning the fact that is no longer possible (or easy, to be accurate) to see the on-going voting in each of the images. This is an important change relative to all previous issues, one with which I do not agree. As an organizer of the first POTY, I still remember that the issue was raised and that a concensus was reached to comply to the overall transparency policy of Commons. Maybe I missed a discussion on this important matter? If possible, I would like to see the button "Info" back below the thumbnails of the images, in the galleries. -- Alvesgaspar (talk) 08:39, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It still is possible to see the on-going voting for each image. Here is a full list of all links that I generated using the data from this page :

I also created a script that counts the number of votes for each image and makes an overall ranking + a ranking for each category so that I can see if the script generating the finalists works as intended. Right now I have some concerns that the code might not work as supposed to in certain circumstances -- Giles Laurent (talk) 10:53, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• • Thank you very much for this information and lists, Giles!. But how many users will take profit of them to vote? Almost none, and certainly not the common voter. Which means that the important Commons criterium of transparency in the polls/votes does no longer apply to POTY. Let me insist: why not restore the old "Info" button below the thumbnails? Maybe we could still start a discussion on this.-- Alvesgaspar (talk) 11:22, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    According to the Help page that displays this since 2019, the results before a round ends are not published because they don't want the results to influence voters and cause a more significant impact of an early lead. So I'm not sure it's the committee wish to have many people voting depending on other picture's position.

    I can publish results of round 1 (with all 1132 files results sorted) and round 2 for transparency if you want but I will only do it once round 2 ends to avoid it influencing voters -- Giles Laurent (talk) 11:33, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Shouldn't the results of round 1 be released before round 2 starts, so everybody can see how each picture did or did not make into round 2? That's how it went for the past years as far as I recall. Nardog (talk) 00:09, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Could you please provide a link for R1 results published in the past? I can't find any R1 results that are more recent then 2019 (2020 was just "rawresults" and then nothing for 2021 and 2022).

    I can publish R1 sorted results directly after R1 end but only if the POTY committee approves such publication. If they don't preapprove it I will only publish it after end of round 2 -- Giles Laurent (talk) 00:22, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Commons:Picture of the Year/2022/R1/Results and Commons:Picture of the Year/2020/Committee/Transparency/R1 raw were published between the rounds. The 2021 results are here, which Legoktm shared with me before R2 ended (I don't know if he had published it elsewhere, but the timestamp shows it too was uploaded between the rounds). Nardog (talk) 00:47, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Okay then if it was like this every year I'll post R1 results on October 15th -- Giles Laurent (talk) 10:04, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• As far as I know, this is the only case in Commons (or Wikimedia at large) where the process is not completly transparent. That is, where the on-going results are not shown to everybody. Remember, Wikimedia is not a democracy, and decisions are taken by concensus. That is why it is perfectly legitimate, according to Wikimedia policy, to influence the participants. Frankly, I believe that the POTY committe went far beyond its competence on this. That is why a discussion should be started and administrators involved. -- Alvesgaspar (talk) 03:20, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  POTY 2023 was on brink of extinction because the only committee member who had technical knowledge of the previous script disappeared for months without giving any news. Some users even contacted Jimmy Wales himself twice on his talk page (in a rather clumsy way) to try to save POTY (link 1, link 2). This was somewhat helpful because that's how Ingenuity came to help us. The only way that was found to save POTY 2023 was to completely rewrite all POTY scripts. Ingenuity managed to do all this in a very impressive short time and POTY 2023 was able to happen this year. Given this context, I'm personally just gladful POTY happened this year even if everything is not as perfect as it might have been before. I've never participated on any POTY before so I don't know how things were before, but if in the past there was a third button bellow each file to see the amount of votes then I think Ingenuity could very easily reimplement that on the code as it's really simple to do -- Giles Laurent (talk) 10:01, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  What isn't transparent? The voting in particular? It's absolutely transparent. It's exactly the same as previous years, except you have to take one additional step because the page isn't linked from the voting tool itself. Maybe we can fix that for next time, but as Giles says, Ingenuity did an incredible job of picking up the ancient, undocumented scripts used for years and redoing them in short time.
  Giles already said he'd post the R1 results, so I'm not sure what else you want that's worth calling the committee incompetent. If you want a running tally of votes, there was explicit consensus against that a couple years ago.
  What are the decisions you're talking about regarding democracy/consensus? POTY is quite literally a vote, and there are many processes without transparency (arbcom elections, wmf elections, anything else using securepoll, otrs tickets, Wiki Loves Monuments judging, wikiconference organizing, etc.). If you mean the POTY tool development, no, that's not usually subject to consensus. Developers build things, often with input from the community, and the community decides if it wants to use them. Each design decision is not done by committee. But in this case, there was even notice posted here and at FPC (and I think at VP a while back) about the new tools, script development, and beta testing. ...Which is sort of remarkable considering how quickly everything came together. But that's how consensus-building processes work. If you ignore them or don't see them until it's too late, that's not anyone else's fault. All that said, if you have strong opinions you should join the committee for next year's event. — Rhododendrites ^talk |  12:44, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Just a quick note to acknowledge the work of the committeee. By no means I wanted to diminish your remarkable job, contest the way the committe was formed or call you incompetent! All I said (and meant) is that the decision of not showing the vote list was beyond the competence (with the meaning of power) of the committe, because it goes against the general policy of Wikimedia: for example, in FPC, QIC or in the election of administrators. As far as I recall (correct me if I'm wrong) this is the first year the button "Info" is absent. Yes Giles, I and many other users would like to see it back! -- Alvesgaspar (talk) 14:27, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]