Talk:Poale Zion

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Where does the Jewish Communist Party Poale Zion mentioned at [1] come into the picture? is this the same as the Poale Zion Left or is it another grouping? --Soman 16:59, 11 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

What other countries did Poale Zion exist in apart from Russia and Israel? Clearly there was a branch in Britain until very recently, which has since renamed itself the Jewish Labour Movement ( http://www.jlm.org.uk ). -86.133.247.156 20:27, 25 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Poland, Austria, US, Canada, probably others. Need citations. BobFromBrockley 12:04, 1 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There needs to be some clarification on how the movement was built up. As I understand there was an international organization with national chapter. Correct? And when the Poalei Zion split, two separate international organizations emerged? --Soman 12:12, 1 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I believe that there was an international organisation, the World Union of Poale Zion, from 1909, which split into a left and right. And there were local organisations, which had different degrees of connection to the World Union, but I'm not sure if the left/right split occured in every national party. BobFromBrockley (talk) 16:47, 29 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Polish wiki mentions 'Jidisze Socjalistisz-Demokratisze Arbeter Partaj "Poalej Cion"'. Was this the Polish section? --Soman (talk) 11:17, 25 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The book Jewish Radicals by William J. Fishman repeatedly refers to a Paole Zion (please note the spelling) movement. I'm assuming he's referring to the subject of this article. Transliteration from Yiddish and Hebrew is often very irregular, so that's probably the reason for this discrepancy. Do you know if this is a common spelling? Should it be mentioned in the article?--Carabinieri (talk) 22:45, 22 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, Fishman is refering to the same group in East End Jewish Radicals (e.g. noting founding of Leeds branch in 1905, p.306). Fishman is a native Yiddish speaker, but his transliteration of Yiddish and Hebrew words into roman letters is highly non-standard! BobFromBrockley (talk) 16:43, 29 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There has been a suggestion that the entry on the Jewish Social Democratic Party of Galicia/Jewish Socialist Party of Galicia be merged into that of Poale Zion. This would be a mistake as the JSDP and PZ were rival organisations which existed at the same time in Galicia. The JSDP was anti-Zionist in its politics. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rickkuhn (talk • contribs) 21:50, 22 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Totally agree. BobFromBrockley (talk) 10:29, 23 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've created Jewish Communist Party of Austria. It appears to me that this group was the Austrian section of PZ, joined Komvrband and eventually merged into KPÖ. In 1924 a new Poale Zion group emerged in the country. Any other info? --Soman (talk) 08:58, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think it will be clearer if we rename this page Workers of Zion. This is the generally acccepted translation in english and will also deal with spelling and transliteration issues Paki.tv (talk) 07:31, 27 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Completely disagree - the party is known as Poale Zion or Poalei Zion and this is its common name in English as well. пﮟოьεԻ 57 12:20, 27 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I suspect it is known as such by those who speak or read both Hebrew and English. At any rate, the party is also known as Workers of Zion - see for example http://www.experiencefestival.com/workers_union or http://www.experiencefestival.com/workers_union and http://www.experiencefestival.com/a/Labour_Israel_-_Ideology/id/5170312 or even http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=52Ew77pZsNUC&pg=PA41&lpg=PA41&dq=%22workers+of+zion%22&source=web&ots=5a8Jlhj_db&sig=BFysnTegVYaZAjp4JC-EGjiKfH0&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=4&ct=result As such we should probobally go with English since this is an Engllish language encyclopaedia... Paki.tv (talk) 19:48, 27 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

As I said, Poale Zion is the common name in English, regardless of the Hebrew. A google search for English-only sites gives 18,000 hits for Poale Zion and 10,300 for Poalei Zion (total of 28,300), compared to 20,500 for Workers of Zion. пﮟოьεԻ 57 19:52, 27 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thats odd - I'm getting different figures from you when i check your links : its giving me 7 and 10 thousand for the hebrew and 18 for the english. anyway i do understand your point... maybe a redirect page from Workers of Zion would be fine. it doesn't really matter i suppose...Paki.tv (talk) 10:38, 28 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well, Marxists of all religious and ethnic backgrounds are supposed to see race as non important, Vlad Lenin saw race as having little to do with anything. They see class as the key issue. Hence the idea of class warfare. Since Zionists put their race/ethnicity ahead of class then can they really be considered Marxist? RiseAgainst01 (talk) 16:13, 16 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure this is the place for this discussion, but the key to the answer is the difference between race, on one hand, and ethnicity and nation, on the other. Most Marxists, and certainly Lenin (but not Luxembourg) believe in nation and national self-determination' some saw the Jews as a nation. Today, most Marxists accept the importance of ethnicity, and most people accept that Jews are an ethnic group. There are plenty of other Marxist groups who are ethnic or nationally specific, such as some Irish Republicans, the Black Panthers, etc. BobFromBrockley (talk) 15:27, 17 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

So effectively this article suffers from similar issues as we have had with the Bund(s). Are we talking about an ideological trend or an organized movement. I think we should split between a general PZ article talking about PZ as an ideological trend, whilst when talking about organizations that material should be in dedicated articles on the different parties. The first party was the Russian PZ party, which took the initiative to create the World Union of PZ, we later have different PZ parties in different countries. -- Soman (talk) 10:49, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]