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== Kyoko Masaki Submission page rejected.  ==

I really want to understand how to improve the submission to be accepted. Is there anyone that could revise or assist me in editing the page.  [[User:Kyoko Masaki/sandbox#Community Volunteer]]

One point is adding references... Computer skills are not my best point.  Can I please ask for a mentor, to assist me..

Thank you  [[User:Kyoko Masaki|Kyoko Masaki]] ([[User talk:Kyoko Masaki|talk]]) 10:20, 31 January 2025 (UTC)

:{{u|Kyoko Masaki}} Hello.  The good news is that your draft was declined, not rejected- rejected would mean that you could not resubmit it.  Declined means that it may be resubmitted. 
:You seem to be writing about yourself- this is highly discouraged, though not forbidden.  Please read the [[WP:AUTO|autobiography policy]].  
:You have basically posted your resume- not a summary of what independent [[WP:RS|reliable sources]] have chosen on their own to say about you and how you are [[WP:BIO|a notable person as Wikipedia defines one]]. You have no sources at all, actually. [[User:331dot|331dot]] ([[User talk:331dot|talk]]) 10:23, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
:You can learn more about adding references by seeing [[WP:REFB|Referencing for beginners]]. [[User:331dot|331dot]] ([[User talk:331dot|talk]]) 10:24, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
::Thank you. For the information.  1st, this page is not about me, it is about my wife who passed away on Monday 27th of January.  I understand a number of Wikipedia writer or revisers keep saying that it is discourage to write about myself and I agree. But, honestly this is about my wife. This page was originally started by the Local Hyogo prefecture government. But, their writing skills are different.  More complimentary I think.  So, I took over. 2nd in relation to the references, thank you I can do now. Also, I think I would like to add some pages to Wikipedia because there are many references that are on found on Wikipedia. 3rd. I have added reference now.  can I ask someone to check? and give next advise.  And lastly, the last 4 awards are all outside sources,  I maybe its better to remove them? 
::Thank you again for the information on adding references it was excellent.  I will start again tomorrow...    [[User:Kyoko Masaki|Kyoko Masaki]] ([[User talk:Kyoko Masaki|talk]]) 10:55, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
:::I am very sorry to hear of the loss of your wife. I might gently suggest that you change your username so that it better represents you, you may do this via [[Special:GlobalRenameRequest]]. [[User:331dot|331dot]] ([[User talk:331dot|talk]]) 10:59, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
::::Would it be better to start a different account and them continue?  [[User:Kyoko Masaki|Kyoko Masaki]] ([[User talk:Kyoko Masaki|talk]]) 11:04, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::You may do that, but then your prior edits would not be associated with your new account. You could still go to and edit the draft you created, but your edit history would then be spread among two different accounts. Renaming your account would transfer your edits to your new username. [[User:331dot|331dot]] ([[User talk:331dot|talk]]) 11:08, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
::::::OK. I will look at the link you gave me.   [[Special:GlobalRenameRequest]]. [[User:331dot|331dot]] ([[User talk:331dot|talk]])  Please remember I am not that good at computer skills.  But, thank you for helping me.  I appreciate your kindness.  [[User:Kyoko Masaki|Kyoko Masaki]] ([[User talk:Kyoko Masaki|talk]]) 11:12, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
:::I'm sorry for your loss, @[[User:Kyoko Masaki|Kyoko Masaki]]. One of the things that makes it very difficult to write successfully about yourself or people close to you is the core Wikipedia principle of [[WP:verifiability|verifiability]]. Effectively, this means that ''absolutely nothing'' that you know about your wife should appear in the article unless the information can be verified from a [[WP:RS|reliable published source]]. [[User:ColinFine|ColinFine]] ([[User talk:ColinFine|talk]]) 15:59, 31 January 2025 (UTC)

I completely revised your draft at [[User:Kyoko Masaki/sandbox]] to have sections that are used for biography articles. Local and minor awards are not taken into account for establishing notability but can be mentioned; I addeda Recognition subsection for her honorary PhD. Please understand that it is unlikely that a reviewer will consider her actions as a cancer support group volunteer as Wikipedia notable. [[User:David notMD|David notMD]] ([[User talk:David notMD|talk]]) 14:28, 1 February 2025 (UTC)

:Ok I understand.  I will need to continue researching Wikipedia help files.  Just a personal note.  Kyoko passed last Monday, but I actually feel lighter doing this project.  Thank you...  [[User:Kyoko Masaki|Kyoko Masaki]] ([[User talk:Kyoko Masaki|talk]]) 08:14, 2 February 2025 (UTC)

== Need users to help working on an article. ==

So I need some users to edit and help on the [[Draft:Daxflame]] article. I did everything on my own and no one else helped me. The article just didn’t approve after I tried to fix some issues. If someone will edit and fix the article I would be glad. Mostly the issues were additional references and sources. [[User:Maxi Ruan|Maxi Ruan]] ([[User talk:Maxi Ruan|talk]]) 16:23, 4 February 2025 (UTC)
:Teahouse hosts are here to advise, not to co-author or find references. The draft in question has been declined five times. The references (IMDb, YouTube) do not meet Wikipedia's standards. [[User:David notMD|David notMD]] ([[User talk:David notMD|talk]]) 16:57, 4 February 2025 (UTC)
:@[[User:Maxi Ruan|Maxi Ruan]] Welcome to the Teahouse. Please see the messages at the top of your draft. I'm afraid no amount of editing can make this subject [[WP:GNG|notable]]. I suggest you abandon this attempt and learn more about editing other articles and [[WP:42|the fundamentals of Wikipedia]], then gather [[WP:RS|information from actual reliable sources]] before trying to write a new article. [[User:Shantavira|Shantavira]]|[[User talk:Shantavira|<sup>feed me</sup>]] 16:58, 4 February 2025 (UTC)
:{{reply|Maxi Ryan}} The vast majority of draft articles are initially written by only one editor until it is moved to the mainspace. Your draft shows no evidence that the subject is [[WP:NBIO|notable]] with no [[WP:RS|reliable sources]] talking about this individual. [[User:Cyberdog958|<span style="color:navy;">''cyberdog''</span><span style="color:orange;">'''958'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Cyberdog958|<span style="color:teal;">Talk</span>]]</sup> 16:59, 4 February 2025 (UTC)

== Votes by City Tables from the 2012, 2016, and 2020 presidential elections in California needs color added ==

[[2012 United States presidential election in California#By city|https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_United_States_presidential_election_in_California#By_city]]
[[2016 United States presidential election in California#By city|https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_United_States_presidential_election_in_California#By_city]]
[[2020 United States presidential election in California#By city|https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_United_States_presidential_election_in_California#By_city]]

Using California's Supplements to the Statement of Votes as sources, I have added results by city for the 2012, 2016, and 2020 presidential elections in California, as well as swings and flips in 2016 and 2020. I'll add the results for 2000, 2004, and 2008 in those respective articles when I have time. And I'll do so for 2024 once the Supplement to the Statement of Vote comes out for that year. Doing so for elections before 2000 would be extremely difficult since they aren't digitized, the pdfs are scans of papers with not great quality. But let me know if you have any ideas for those earlier elections. These tables unfortunately have no color, as I do not know how to add colors to them without me taking many hours tediously adding them one by one. I was able to do everything else efficiently by making Excel sheets and converting it to the Wikitable format using [https://tableconvert.com/excel-to-mediawiki][Https://tableconvert.com/excel-to-mediawiki https://tableconvert.com/excel-to-mediawiki] and then only having to make minor changes on Wikipedia itself, but that doesn't help me with the color situation. If you know how to efficiently add colors, feel free to tell me or do it yourself.  [[User:CrazedElectron27|CrazedElectron27]] ([[User talk:CrazedElectron27|talk]]) 17:07, 4 February 2025 (UTC)

== Lake first or Shawnee first? ==

[[Lake Shawnee (Kansas)|Article]] is currently Lake Shawnee, should it be Shawnee Lake (Kansas), or stay the same? If it's Shawnee Lake, how do I change the name of the article? [[User:RoyalSilver|<span style="color:#FFDB1B">'''Royal'''</span><span style="color:#737171">'''Silver'''</span>]] 19:29, 4 February 2025 (UTC)

:@[[User:RoyalSilver|RoyalSilver]]. Welcome to the Teahouse. We reflect what reliable sources say, and they apparently call it Lake Shawnee. You haven't said why you think the name should be changed, but the correct place to do so is on the talk page of that article. Please clearly state your reasons when you do so. [[User:Shantavira|Shantavira]]|[[User talk:Shantavira|<sup>feed me</sup>]] 19:44, 4 February 2025 (UTC)
::{{u|RoyalSilver}}, the article has seven references to reliable sources and all of them say "Lake Shawnee". There's your answer because we summarize what reliable sources say. [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 19:47, 4 February 2025 (UTC)
::@[[User:Shantavira|Shantavira]], if you scroll down to all the other reservoirs in Kansas, they mostly have Lake at the end of their name, that's why I was wondering it would be the same with Lake Shawnee. [[User:RoyalSilver|<span style="color:#FFDB1B">'''Royal'''</span><span style="color:#737171">'''Silver'''</span>]] 19:53, 4 February 2025 (UTC)

== Mongol Empire  ==

I have an article called [[Draft:Siege of Bamyan (1221)]] and it’s about a battle/siege that happened but my article isnt being accepted and i put a lot of sources and i was wondering if anyone could help me out and add sources with me ? and if i wrote this question on the wrong page then im sorry [[User:Shadow. 547|Shadow. 547]] ([[User talk:Shadow. 547|talk]]) 18:05, 4 February 2025 (UTC)

:@[[User:Shadow. 547|Shadow. 547]], You could add it into the [[Mongol invasion of the Khwarazmian Empire]] article, the reason states that there isn't enough content to be its own article. You can always add it into the other article of the Mongol invasion. [[User:RoyalSilver|<span style="color:#FFDB1B">'''Royal'''</span><span style="color:#737171">'''Silver'''</span>]] 19:32, 4 February 2025 (UTC)
::@[[User:RoyalSilver|RoyalSilver]] Sorry but i dont want to add it to Mongol invasion of the Khwarazmian Empire article im gonna try all i can do so it can be its own article because the siege is popular for the amount of destruction and how many people we killed in that siege and i want it to be an article [[User:Shadow. 547|Shadow. 547]] ([[User talk:Shadow. 547|talk]]) 21:34, 4 February 2025 (UTC)
:::@[[User:Shadow. 547|Shadow. 547]], I would suggest reading [[Wikipedia:Writing Wikipedia articles backward]]. It is just an essay but is a really clear explanation of how notability works and is written about the situation this draft article is in. I agree with the reviewing editor ({{u|AirshipJungleman29}}) who suggested merging at least some of the content into the larger existing article. 
:::Notability relates to the ''subject''. You can write a Wikipedia article with sources that establish a subject's notability, but if the sources don't exist, there is nothing you can do to make the ''article'' notable. To make the ''subject'' notable, you would have go write for reliable sources outside of Wikipedia. [[User:Rjjiii|<span style="font-variant:small-caps;">Rjj<sup>iii</sup></span>]] ([[User talk:Rjjiii|talk]]) 03:17, 5 February 2025 (UTC)
:@[[User:Shadow. 547|Shadow. 547]] Welcome to the Teahouse. Please see the helpful messages at the top of your draft and on your talk page. Click on the blue links for further explanations. I'm afraid no amount of editing can make this subject [[WP:GNG|notable]]. I suggest you abandon this attempt and learn more about editing other articles and [[WP:42|the fundamentals of Wikipedia]], then gather [[WP:RS|in-depth information from actual reliable sources]] before trying to write a new article. [[User:Shantavira|Shantavira]]|[[User talk:Shantavira|<sup>feed me</sup>]] 19:35, 4 February 2025 (UTC)

== somehow my Reference have moved to the bottom of my external links how can i have it back under my reference link.  Thanks ==

reference links moved to the bottom of my external links.  I need help moving it back up where it belongs.  thanks [[User:Megafilms422|Megafilms422]] ([[User talk:Megafilms422|talk]]) 20:23, 4 February 2025 (UTC)

:Can you please link to the page where it happened? Thank you. <span style="font-family:monospace;background:#368;padding:.2rem;color:white">''[[User:APenguinThatIsSilly|<span style="color:white">APenguinThatIsSilly</span>]]''(''[[User talk:APenguinThatIsSilly|<span style="color:#FEC">"talk"</span>]]'')</span> 21:07, 4 February 2025 (UTC)
::Hi [[User:Megafilms422|Megafilms422]]. I guess it was about [[Francesco Paolo Michetti]]. Your account had not edited it for nine years when you posted here but now it has. It was caused by removing {{tl|Reflist}} in [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Morris_S._Levy&diff=prev&oldid=1273939403]. It has been restored in [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Morris_S._Levy&diff=next&oldid=1273962257]. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 21:28, 4 February 2025 (UTC)
:: Hi {{u|Megafilms422}}. For reference, the Wikipedia software will display all [[:H:REFB|citations formatted as references]] added to any Wikipedia page (articles, talk pages, userpages, noticeboard, etc.)  at the bottom of the page, unless it's told to put them somewhere else. What PrimeHunter did is explained in [[:WP:REFLIST]]; PrimeHunter just added the template {{tlx|reflist}} to the "References" section of the article to tell the software to display the references there. -- [[User:Marchjuly|Marchjuly]] ([[User talk:Marchjuly|talk]]) 04:30, 5 February 2025 (UTC)

== Citing Newspapers ==

I have a few scans of articles from newspapers that have relevant information of a deceased person, I was just wondering what is the correct way to cite it and what guidelines there are in determining which newspapers can and shouldn't be used? [[User:Alexthegod5|Alexthegod5]] ([[User talk:Alexthegod5|talk]]) 21:27, 4 February 2025 (UTC)

:{{ping|Alexthegod5}} See {{tlx|cite news}}. You will need to provide the paper title (work), the edition (date), the [[byline]] (first and last), the article title (title), and the pages (page or pages) the article's on. —[[User:Jéské Couriano|<i style="color: #1E90FF;">Jéské Couriano</i>]] [[User talk:Jéské Couriano|<span style="color: #228B22">v^&lowbar;^v</span>]] <sup><small>[[User:Jéské Couriano/AG|threads]] [[User:Jéské Couriano/Decode|critiques]]</small></sup> 21:29, 4 February 2025 (UTC)
::Thank you!@[[User:Jéské Couriano|Jéské Couriano]] [[User:Alexthegod5|Alexthegod5]] ([[User talk:Alexthegod5|talk]]) 21:34, 4 February 2025 (UTC)
:::{{ping|Alexthegod5}} There's some more information on this given in [[:WP:CITEHOW]]. FWIW, you don't need to upload a scan of the newspaper to cite it as long as you provide enough information about it, it's considered a [[:WP:RS|reliable source]], and it's being used cited in accordance with [[:WP:RSCONTEXT]]. Sources cited in Wikipedia articles aren't required to be available online as explained in [[:WP:PUBLISH]] and [[:WP:PUBLISHED]]. One thing, though, is that if you use a [[:WP:CT|citation template]] to format the source, you shouldn't use the template {{tlx|cite web}} to do so because that template actually requires a url be added as part of its syntax and gives off an error message when no url is provided; you can use the template {{tlx|cite news}} instead because that also works for cited sources not available online. -- [[User:Marchjuly|Marchjuly]] ([[User talk:Marchjuly|talk]]) 04:22, 5 February 2025 (UTC)
::::{{u|Alexthegod5}}, as for which newspapers can be used, that needs to be determined on a case-by-case basis. Some newspapers are known to be unreliable. A well-known example is the ''[[WP:DAILYMAIL|Daily Mail]]'' in the UK. The ''[[WP:NYPOST|New York Post]]'' in the US is another example. Sane editors would not try to use ''[[Der Stürmer]]'' which shouted variations of "Death to the Jews!" repeatedly for 22 years or ''[[Weekly World News]]'' which repeatedly reported on the exploits of [[Bat Boy (character)|Bat Boy]] and has reported that Elvis was still alive until today. On the other hand, a majority of ordinary humdrum daily newspapers that reported local news in their cities and towns for decades or more are considered reliable sources, unless there is good evidence that the newspaper regularly and deliberately published sensational falsehoods for profit. The most important skill for a Wikipedia editor is to determine whether or not a given source is reliable. That skill is a type of [[critical thinking]]. [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 05:10, 5 February 2025 (UTC)

== Inactive Talk Page ==

I’ve recently started to heavily edit [[Air traffic controller]] as it has quite a lot of problems. My question is, for some controversial edits such as content removal I should seek consensus on the talk page, but no one is actually active on there / replying, so what should I do? Just assume consensus? [[User:Squawk7700|Squawk7700]] ([[User talk:Squawk7700|talk]]) 12:16, 4 February 2025 (UTC)

:@[[User:Squawk7700|Squawk7700]] That article has 125 page watchers, so plenty of other editors are, in principle, aware of what you are doing, including the "under construction" template at the top of the article. So if I were you I'd keep going until someone objects by reverting one of your edits. That's our standard [[WP:BRD|bold, revert, discuss]] procedure. You might want to keep edits fairly small so that if someone does object they don't have to remove large chunks of your work. [[User:Michael D. Turnbull|Mike Turnbull]] ([[User talk:Michael D. Turnbull|talk]]) 13:04, 4 February 2025 (UTC)
::Thank you very much for your assistance. I will go ahead like that. [[User:Squawk7700|Squawk7700]] ([[User talk:Squawk7700|talk]]) 13:37, 4 February 2025 (UTC)
:::{{re|Squawk7700}} Hi. If you think the edits are controversial, or have a feeling that they should be discussed, then relevant wikiprojects (in that case, aviation) is also a good option. —usernamekiran [[User talk:usernamekiran|(talk)]] 23:43, 4 February 2025 (UTC)
::::Agreed. Also, thanks for posting the question here. I'll try to respond to some of your messages at the article's talk page later this week, [[User:Rjjiii|<span style="font-variant:small-caps;">Rjj<sup>iii</sup></span>]] ([[User talk:Rjjiii|talk]]) 03:20, 5 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::That would be perfect, thank you [[User:Squawk7700|Squawk7700]] ([[User talk:Squawk7700|talk]]) 08:43, 5 February 2025 (UTC)
::::That’s a good idea, I’ll definitely put some of the edits I want to discuss there. [[User:Squawk7700|Squawk7700]] ([[User talk:Squawk7700|talk]]) 08:42, 5 February 2025 (UTC)

== Self-closing <code><nowiki><ref></nowiki></code> tags? ==
{{resolved|1=<span style="border-radius:99q;padding:0 7q;background:#103;border:3q solid #FBF">[[User:QuickQuokka|<span style="color:#FBF">'''QuickQuokka'''</span>]]</span> <sup>[⁠[[User talk:QuickQuokka|talk]] • [[Special:Contribs/QuickQuokka|contribs]]]</sup> 09:20, 5 February 2025 (UTC)}}
Hello!

If I would like to reuse a citation previously used in the article, do I write it like so with a self-closing tag: <code><nowiki><ref name="some-reference" /></nowiki></code>, or like so without: <code><nowiki><ref name="some-reference"></ref></nowiki></code>? <span style="border-radius:99q;padding:0 7q;background:#103;border:3q solid #FBF">[[User:QuickQuokka|<span style="color:#FBF">'''QuickQuokka'''</span>]]</span> <sup>[⁠[[User talk:QuickQuokka|talk]] • [[Special:Contribs/QuickQuokka|contribs]]]</sup> 09:18, 5 February 2025 (UTC)
:Nevermind, found [[WP:REPEATCITE]] <span style="border-radius:99q;padding:0 7q;background:#103;border:3q solid #FBF">[[User:QuickQuokka|<span style="color:#FBF">'''QuickQuokka'''</span>]]</span> <sup>[⁠[[User talk:QuickQuokka|talk]] • [[Special:Contribs/QuickQuokka|contribs]]]</sup> 09:19, 5 February 2025 (UTC)

== Editing a citation (that's used multiple times) from "journal" to "website" ==

Greetings all. I noticed an issue with a citation/reference here [[Chesterwood (Massachusetts)#cite note-nrhpinv2-3]]<nowiki> that was lacking a journal name; only it isn't a journal, it's a website (actually a PDF that lives on a website). I feel like I could just re-do it, however it is used a ton more times in the article and I don't want to potentially mess that up. The template for a journal citation seems pretty rigid. Would someone please explain how to reformat to "website" reference (if indeed that is what it should be)? Not terribly urgent... Thanks. ~~~</nowiki> [[User:Remando|Remando]] ([[User talk:Remando|talk]]) 01:59, 5 February 2025 (UTC)
:Hi {{u|Remando}}. Is the original source for the citation a journal, but the relevant part of the journal has simply been posted on some website as a PDF file? If that's the case, then using {{tlx|cite journal}} for the citation isn't really incorrect per se because the website is more of a [[:WP:CONVENIENCE|convenience link]] than a reliable source itself, and the paramter {{para|via}} could be added to the citation template's syntax as <code><nowiki>via=website's name</nowiki></code>. If the PDF file is true copy of the original source material, it should be OK to do this for the website. On the other hand, if the PDF appears to have been modified in any way that might affect its reliablility as as source, the link to the website should probably be removed, and just the journal cited. -- [[User:Marchjuly|Marchjuly]] ([[User talk:Marchjuly|talk]]) 02:52, 5 February 2025 (UTC)
:Hello [[User:Remando|Remando]], I would do the citation as below:
:{{Cite web |last1=Rettig |first1=Polly M. |last2=Bradford |first2=S. S. |date=April 1976 |title=National Register of Historic Places Inventory-Nomination: Chesterwood |url={{NRHP url|id=66000652}} |access-date=February 4, 2025 |publisher=[[National Park Service]]}} With {{NRHP url|id=66000652|photos=y|title=accompanying five photos, from 1971 and 1974}}
:<syntaxhighlight lang=wikitext>{{Cite web |last1=Rettig |first1=Polly M. |last2=Bradford |first2=S. S. |date=April 1976 |title=National Register of Historic Places Inventory-Nomination: Chesterwood |url={{NRHP url|id=66000652}} |access-date=February 4, 2025 |publisher=[[National Park Service]]}} With {{NRHP url|id=66000652|photos=y|title=accompanying five photos, from 1971 and 1974}}</syntaxhighlight>
:That changes several details to more closely match the source. To answer the original question, to change from {{tl|cite web}} to {{tl|cite journal}} you would only need to change "cite web" to "cite journal" and "journal=" to "website=". Those two templates both use the same backend software ([[Module:Citation/CS1]]) so they are similar in many ways. If you have more questions about those templates or other CS1 templates, you can usually get knowledgeable answers at [[Help talk:Citation Style 1]].
:Feel free to ask any followup questions, [[User:Rjjiii|<span style="font-variant:small-caps;">Rjj<sup>iii</sup></span>]] ([[User talk:Rjjiii|talk]]) 03:07, 5 February 2025 (UTC)
::Thank you both, @[[User:Marchjuly|Marchjuly]] and @[[User:Rjjiii|Rjjiii]]<nowiki> for explaining clearly what seemed so tricky, and making the change from cite journal to cite web. Many appreciations. ~~~</nowiki> [[User:Remando|Remando]] ([[User talk:Remando|talk]]) 04:34, 5 February 2025 (UTC)
:::@[[User:Remando|Remando]] It may be worth mentioning for others reading this thread that it doesn't make any difference that the reference is used {{tq|a ton more times in the article}}. It should only appear once in the source code and that's where the template needs to be edited. It uses the concept of [[WP:NAMED|named references]], so the first appearance has the code <code><nowiki><ref name="nrhpinv2"></nowiki></code> followed by the cite web template given above, then <code><nowiki><ref /></nowiki></code>. All other instances just use <code><nowiki><ref name="nrhpinv2" /></nowiki></code> where the reference is re-used. [[User:Michael D. Turnbull|Mike Turnbull]] ([[User talk:Michael D. Turnbull|talk]]) 12:06, 5 February 2025 (UTC)
::::Yes, thank you for that clarification @[[User:Michael D. Turnbull|Michael D. Turnbull]]<nowiki> ~~~</nowiki> [[User:Remando|Remando]] ([[User talk:Remando|talk]]) 15:30, 5 February 2025 (UTC)

== Question regarding quote marks in citations ==

Hello!

I know per [[MOS:QWQ]] how you should format nested quotes in the article body, but how should I do so in a citation? Do I do it like so: <code><nowiki>{{cite magazine |last=Wang |first=Lianzhang |date=2018-06-26 |title='Father of "Shamate{{"'}} ... |url=... }}</nowiki></code> so it looks like:

{{refbegin}}
{{cite magazine |last=Wang |first=Lianzhang |date=2018-06-26 |title='Father of "Shamate{{"'}} Looks Back at Now-Dead Subculture |url=https://www.sixthtone.com/news/1002503 |magazine=[[Sixth Tone]] |location= |publisher= |access-date=}}
{{refend}}

Or should I format it in another way because it's a citation? <span style="border-radius:99q;padding:0 7q;background:#103;border:3q solid #FBF">[[User:QuickQuokka|<span style="color:#FBF">'''QuickQuokka'''</span>]]</span> <sup>[⁠[[User talk:QuickQuokka|talk]] • [[Special:Contribs/QuickQuokka|contribs]]]</sup> 11:42, 5 February 2025 (UTC)

:{{reply|QuickQuokka}} Most of the citation templates have a {{parameter|quote}} parameter for this use. You can find the exact documentation about this parameter on [[TM:Cite magazine/doc|this page]] about halfway down under the “quote” heading, but it auto adds the quotation marks for you within the citation template. [[User:Cyberdog958|<span style="color:navy;">''cyberdog''</span><span style="color:orange;">'''958'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Cyberdog958|<span style="color:teal;">Talk</span>]]</sup> 14:14, 5 February 2025 (UTC)
::{{re|Cyberdog958}} Thank you for replying, but the <code>|quote=</code> parameter is used for quotes from the article body.{{pb}}The title of said article is ''[https://www.sixthtone.com/news/1002503 ‘Father of ‘Shamate’’ Looks Back at Now-Dead Subculture]'', but I changed the quotation marks in the title to ''&nbsp;'Father of "Shamate{{"'}} Looks Back at Now-Dead Subculture'' in order to fit Wikipedia's manual of style.{{pb}}My problem stems from the fact that according to [[MOS:QWQ]], I must add the template {{tl|"'}} if I have a single quote after a double quote, and I'm unsure if I can add templates to an article title in citation templates. <span style="border-radius:99q;padding:0 7q;background:#103;border:3q solid #FBF">[[User:QuickQuokka|<span style="color:#FBF">'''QuickQuokka'''</span>]]</span> <sup>[⁠[[User talk:QuickQuokka|talk]] • [[Special:Contribs/QuickQuokka|contribs]]]</sup> 14:19, 5 February 2025 (UTC)
::Sorry if I said it in an unclear manner... <span style="border-radius:99q;padding:0 7q;background:#103;border:3q solid #FBF">[[User:QuickQuokka|<span style="color:#FBF">'''QuickQuokka'''</span>]]</span> <sup>[⁠[[User talk:QuickQuokka|talk]] • [[Special:Contribs/QuickQuokka|contribs]]]</sup> 14:35, 5 February 2025 (UTC)
:The title of the item itself has a single-quoted word within a single-quoted phrase. Our MOS instructs the template trick to use to match our nesting conventions in a legible way. However, each of the [[:Category:Quotation mark templates|Quotation mark templates]] has a large warning: "This template should not be used in citation templates such as Citation Style 1 and Citation Style 2, because it includes markup that will pollute the COinS metadata they produce; see Wikipedia:COinS." Regardless of whether you use the original's nesting style or MOS nesting style, you'll need to do it strictly with text and wiki-formatting, not templates that use CSS. [[User:DMacks|DMacks]] ([[User talk:DMacks|talk]]) 17:10, 5 February 2025 (UTC)
::{{re|DMacks}} Wow, I didn't even think to check the template... Thanks for your help! <span style="border-radius:99q;padding:0 7q;background:#103;border:3q solid #FBF">[[User:QuickQuokka|<span style="color:#FBF">'''QuickQuokka'''</span>]]</span> <sup>[⁠[[User talk:QuickQuokka|talk]] • [[Special:Contribs/QuickQuokka|contribs]]]</sup> 17:13, 5 February 2025 (UTC)

== Using the wrong edit summary ==

So if I accidentally click on the wrong edit summary when finishing an edit, is there any way to change/correct it? For example, see [[Maggie Celine Louise De Block|this redirect]]. [[User:RedactedHumanoid|RedactedHumanoid]] ([[User talk:RedactedHumanoid|talk]]) 18:01, 5 February 2025 (UTC)
:Hi @[[User:RedactedHumanoid|RedactedHumanoid]], edit summaries can't be changed, but what you can do is make a dummy edit (add or remove a space, or something), and in ''that'' edit summary, write "dummy edit: previous edit summary should have read ''whatever''". I've done that myself several times. [[User:Schazjmd|<span style="color:#066293;">'''Schazjmd'''</span>]]&nbsp;[[User talk:Schazjmd|<span style="color:#738276;">''(talk)''</span>]] 18:06, 5 February 2025 (UTC)
::Ah, I see. Thank you. [[User:RedactedHumanoid|RedactedHumanoid]] ([[User talk:RedactedHumanoid|talk]]) 18:07, 5 February 2025 (UTC)

== Redirect ==

Quick question: how does one find a redirect page? Thanks. [[User:Maineartists|Maineartists]] ([[User talk:Maineartists|talk]]) 02:06, 6 February 2025 (UTC)

:Is [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere?target=%21%21%21&namespace=&hidetrans=1&hidelinks=1&limit=50 WhatLinksHere] what you're looking for? [[User:3a74h|3a74h]] ([[User talk:3a74h|talk]]) 02:58, 6 February 2025 (UTC)

::No. When one types in a subject in the search and it takes you to a page that is not the subject but merely mentions it in passing within the article because the subject itself does not have a page at WP, how does one find the redirect page for that subject? Creating a page and trying to redirect it. Thanks. PS Yes, the subject is notable to warrant its own page. [[User:Maineartists|Maineartists]] ([[User talk:Maineartists|talk]]) 03:43, 6 February 2025 (UTC)

<!-- Begin Template:UND -->[[File:Yes check.svg|18px|link=|alt=]] '''Done''' Figured it out. Thanks. [[User:Maineartists|Maineartists]] ([[User talk:Maineartists|talk]]) 04:56, 6 February 2025 (UTC)

== Deletion of [[Draft:List of Combined Military Hospitals in Pakistan]] ==

Hello.. I was created a page named [[Draft:List of Combined Military Hospitals in Pakistan]]. This draft article was created by me and i want to delete this page as not enough sources or Page is not notable. Also there is no enough data for me to fill in this draft. Please guide me how to delete this draft ? [[User:PB987|PB987]] ([[User talk:PB987|talk]]) 07:09, 6 February 2025 (UTC)
:You're the only contributor (other than trivially), and you expressed a desire to delete it; that was enough for me to delete it. -- [[User:Hoary|Hoary]] ([[User talk:Hoary|talk]]) 07:14, 6 February 2025 (UTC)
::Thanks [[User:PB987|PB987]] ([[User talk:PB987|talk]]) 07:16, 6 February 2025 (UTC)

== 2.2 removal in GD article ==
Article name: [[Geometry Dash]]

@[[User:B33Net|B33Net]], thanks for classifying my edits as good faith. But why did you revert them? I don't know why. Can you tell me?

[[User:Srihan123|Srihan123]] ([[User talk:Srihan123|talk]]) 07:49, 6 February 2025 (UTC)
:@[[User:Srihan123|Srihan123]] your edits inserted [[WP:V|unsourced information]] and an image that is possibly a [[WP:COPYVIO|copyright violation]]. In the future, it would be better to ask the reverting editor directly (e.g. at [[User talk:B33net]]). <span style="white-space:nowrap"><span style="font-family:monospace">'''<nowiki>'''[[</nowiki>[[User:CanonNi]]<nowiki>]]'''</nowiki>'''</span> ([[User talk:CanonNi|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/CanonNi|contribs]])</span> 07:53, 6 February 2025 (UTC)
::I get it, sorry for unsourced information :D [[User:Srihan123|Srihan123]] ([[User talk:Srihan123|talk]]) 07:54, 6 February 2025 (UTC)
:::{{u|Srihan123}}, leaving aside possible copyright issues, in my opinion, the image was banal and did not add to the reader's understanding of the game. [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 07:58, 6 February 2025 (UTC)
::::Yeah, I'm sorry. The ball has no reference to 2.2 :( [[User:Srihan123|Srihan123]] ([[User talk:Srihan123|talk]]) 08:12, 6 February 2025 (UTC)

== Help finding relevant style guides... or just wing it? ==

Hi, a few times now I have noticed something I might change, and then thought to myself, "There's probably a style guide or a template for that.  I should consult that before I edit."  Usually I don't make the edit.  

This has come up again recently, since I noticed that some articles on moderately important writers, for example [[Elif Batuman]], format lists of the author's work in a way that struck me as particularly annoying: a bulleted list, each line of which begins with the author's name.  It's repetitive and doesn't seem to serve any purpose unless it is to provide people with ready made citations.  Now I've spent a while poking around relevant Wikiprojects and also the sort of high level "how to edit" stuff without finding any specific rules about this. 

Does this just mean that I should edit the article to use a table (seen on some other articles) or a list without the author name repeated, or something else that seems to look good?  

I guess I could believe that there's no guide for this issue in particular, and that would be fine, but surely there are consensus rules on things like the infobox for a living animal, or a city.  Are there any tips for finding this kind of information, some jargon I'm not familiar with perhaps?  Thanks for any suggestions. [[User:Philly6097|Philly6097]] ([[User talk:Philly6097|talk]]) 03:00, 6 February 2025 (UTC)

:Hi, @[[User:Philly6097|Philly6097]]. Style guidelines for Wikipedia are covered by the [[Wikipedia:Manual of Style|Manual of Style]]. It covers everything necessary to properly write and format an article. For the example you mentioned, you might be interested in reviewing [[Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Lists of works|the guideline for lists of works]]. Hope this helped, good luck in your future editing! [[User:Imconfused3456|'''<span style="color: blue; text-shadow: 0 0 2px blue">Imconfused</span>''']][[User_talk:Imconfused3456|'''<span style="color: navy; text-shadow: 0 0 2px navy">3456</span>''']] 05:20, 6 February 2025 (UTC)
::That might be exactly what I was looking for, thanks! [[User:Philly6097|Philly6097]] ([[User talk:Philly6097|talk]]) 15:45, 6 February 2025 (UTC)

:In general, [[User:Philly6097]], I wouldn't worry so much about such matters. I don't intend to belittle [[Elif Batuman]] (a new name to me) in any way when I say that she doesn't seem to have written all that much. (Quality trumps quantity.) If you format the list in a way that's informative, at least moderately conventional, and easily understandable, readers will be happy with it, which is what matters. If somebody later decides that it contravenes this or that stipulation of the MoS, then that person is free to change it and can do so easily. By contrast, if I took it upon myself to provide publishers, ISBNs and so forth for the first (and, if substantially altered, subsequent) editions of all of the numerous books by, say, [[Edward Lucie-Smith]], then I'd feel obliged to look up the relevant content of the MoS and memorize and implement it; because my laziness in not doing so might well cause one or more later editors a lot of unnecessary work. -- [[User:Hoary|Hoary]] ([[User talk:Hoary|talk]]) 06:26, 6 February 2025 (UTC)
:Hi {{u|Philly6097}}. In addition to the advice give by Hoary above, you can use the [[:WP:CT|citation template]] {{tlx|cite book}} for such bullet lists if want but use the parameter {{para|author-mask}} together with the parameters {{para|first}} and {{para|last}} for the author's first and last names as explained in [[:WP:BIB#Using citation templates]]. The rest of the citation will be formatted accordingly, but an [[:Em dash]] will be displayed instead of "Bautman, Elif" or "Elif Bautman". There's also other guidance given in [[:WP:BIBLIOGRAPHY]] regarding how to format such information. -- [[User:Marchjuly|Marchjuly]] ([[User talk:Marchjuly|talk]]) 06:48, 6 February 2025 (UTC)
:This is helpful, thank you. [[User:Philly6097|Philly6097]] ([[User talk:Philly6097|talk]]) 15:49, 6 February 2025 (UTC)

== Unreliable sources ==

Hello! I'm asking for your help. She created an article about [[Draft:Aleksandr Borisovich Ter-Avanesov|Alexander Ter-Avanesov]], an ex-member of the Federation Council of Russia, using information from reliable sources, the official website of the [[Federation Council (Russia)]]. 

On the page [[List of members of the Federation Council (Russia)]] Wikipedia has a footnote number 354 on Alexander Ter-Avanesov as a member of the Federation Council from the Kostroma region from February 8, 2008 to November 27, 2015. 

Why is there a comment about unreliable sources when checking if Alexander Ter-Avanesov is mentioned in other Wikipedia articles? How can I accept my article?

I would appreciate an answer!

[[User:Xarina17|Xarina17]] ([[User talk:Xarina17|talk]]) 16:30, 5 February 2025 (UTC)

:[[User:Xarina17|Xarina17]], when you say that she created an article, I suppose you mean that ''you'' created a ''draft''. The template at the top does not charge that the draft cites unreliable sources. Instead, it says "This submission's references [...] do not show significant coverage (not just passing mentions) about the subject in published, reliable, secondary sources that are independent of the subject (see the guidelines on the notability of people)." The draft currently cites eight sources. Which three among these eight would you say are the most informative about Ter-Avanesov (while of course being independent of him)? -- [[User:Hoary|Hoary]] ([[User talk:Hoary|talk]]) 22:28, 5 February 2025 (UTC)
::Hello! Of all the sources, I consider Ter-Avanesov to be the most informative.: 
::1. The portal of the Federation Council of the Federal Assembly of the Russian Federation, which is the official source of the highest representative and legislative body of the Russian Federation: <nowiki>http://council.gov.ru/services/reference/9558</nowiki> /, 
::2. The portal of the All-Russian political party "United Russia", which also contains only confirmed information, 
::3. The official portal of the international information agency "Newsarmenia" <nowiki>https://newsarmenia.am/news/economy/utverzhden-novyy-sostav-soveta-vtb-armeniya</nowiki> /. [[User:Xarina17|Xarina17]] ([[User talk:Xarina17|talk]]) 18:10, 6 February 2025 (UTC)

== How is consensus decided in Village Pump discsusions? ==

I'm curious where I can get more information about when and how village pump policy discussions turn into policy changes. Who decides to mark a discussion as closed ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)#BLPs example])?

Related, I was able to identify which edit of this [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Image_use_policy#AI-generated_images_in_biographies_of_living_persons policy] stemmed from the previous village pump discussion, but are there any formal links between the change and the discussion that inspired the change? [[User:Zentavious|Zentavious]] ([[User talk:Zentavious|talk]]) 19:29, 5 February 2025 (UTC)

:[[Wikipedia:Policies and guidelines]] gives a broad overview of how policies are created. More specifically, most significant changes to policy come as a result of a [[WP:RfC|request for comment]]. A discussion is typically [[WP:CLOSE|closed]] when the conversation has died down, meaning there haven't been any new comments in at least a day or two. This usually takes around 30 days.
:Alternatively, as in the case of the BLP AI images discussion, a discussion may be [[WP:SNOW|snow closed]], meaning consensus overwhelmingly leans one way.
:Many, if not most, pump discussions are closed by admins, though a [[WP:NAC|non-admin may close most discussions]] as long as they're in good standing and their close is reasonable. In practice, however, highly contentious discussions are almost always closed by administrators. 
:It's pretty uncommon to include links on the policy page to the relevant RfCs, even in footnotes, because it'd clutter the page. When a policy is introduced, it's common to mention the exact discussion in the edit summary, as [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Image_use_policy&diff=prev&oldid=1268182537 was done] for the AI RfC [[User talk:Dilettante|Sincerely, Dilettante]] 19:02, 6 February 2025 (UTC)

== Decline of [[Draft:Northeast Career and Technical Academy]] ==

Hello all, I'm a fairly new editor of Wikipedia and would like some advice on what I could do to improve this article so that it is able to reach the mainspace. [[User:SkullyWasHere|st4rry]] ([[User talk:SkullyWasHere|talk]]) 19:10, 6 February 2025 (UTC)

:Hello, @[[User:SkullyWasHere|SkullyWasHere]], and welcome to the Teahouse. 
:A Wikipedia article should be a summary of what [[WP:42|reliable independent sources]] have said about the subject, and very little else. {{HD/WINI}}
:Writing an article without ''first'' finding independent sources is like building a house without first building the foundations - or even surveying the plot to check that it is suitable to build on. 
:{{User:ColinFine/PractiseFirst}}
:(I realise that your account has been around for a couple of years; but with only 28 edits to your name, I think you count as a new editor). 
:One unrelated point: please don't use a signature that disguises your user name: I was going to begin this reply by asking why you were interested in a draft by somebody else. If you don't like your user name, you can ask for it to be changed: see [[WP:CHU]]. [[User:ColinFine|ColinFine]] ([[User talk:ColinFine|talk]]) 19:29, 6 February 2025 (UTC)

== AFD closure ==
I am inquiring whether this AFD constitutes a right closure?
[[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Waves (OTT)]]&nbsp;[[User:Bakhtar40|Bakhtar40]] ([[User talk:Bakhtar40|talk]]) 08:21, 6 February 2025 (UTC)
:@[[User:Bakhtar40|Bakhtar40]] since all !votes from other users were keep, yeah, the closure seems right. If you'd like to challenge it, [[WP:DRV]] is the right place. <span style="white-space:nowrap"><span style="font-family:monospace">'''<nowiki>'''[[</nowiki>[[User:CanonNi]]<nowiki>]]'''</nowiki>'''</span> ([[User talk:CanonNi|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/CanonNi|contribs]])</span> 08:24, 6 February 2025 (UTC)
::Hi [[User:CanonNi|CanonNi]], Thank you for your response. I don't want to challenge this AFD. [[User:Bakhtar40|Bakhtar40]] ([[User talk:Bakhtar40|talk]]) 08:27, 6 February 2025 (UTC)
::That being said, two 'keep' !votes, one from the article creator, the other essentially making the [[WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS]] argument... meh. -- [[User:DoubleGrazing|DoubleGrazing]] ([[User talk:DoubleGrazing|talk]]) 12:46, 6 February 2025 (UTC)
::+1 Relisting would not have been amiss, imho. [[User:Lectonar|Lectonar]] ([[User talk:Lectonar|talk]]) 13:00, 6 February 2025 (UTC)
:[[User:Vanderwaalforces|Vanderwaalforces]], would you mind reopening this? [[User:Jeraxmoira|Jeraxmoira🐉]] ([[User talk:Jeraxmoira|talk]]) 16:14, 6 February 2025 (UTC)
:I got all excited about new content from [[Ott (record producer)]] and it turns out the subject is just an [[Over-the-top media services in India]].{{pb}}I would not have {{tl|nac}}ed this as "keep". [[User:Folly Mox|Folly Mox]] ([[User talk:Folly Mox|talk]]) 17:03, 6 February 2025 (UTC)
:I find it out of this platform ridiculous for a closure I made to be discussed and I was only informed eight hours after the discussion was initiated, after several users had commented. I went ahead to revert and relist the discussion after Jeraxmoira TB me, I didn’t even get the ping above originally. [[User:Vanderwaalforces|Vanderwaalforces]] ([[User talk:Vanderwaalforces|talk]]) 21:30, 6 February 2025 (UTC)
:I hope users from here can go to that AfD and drop a comment especially since some think this was a bad [[WP:NAC|NAC]]. [[User:Vanderwaalforces|Vanderwaalforces]] ([[User talk:Vanderwaalforces|talk]]) 21:32, 6 February 2025 (UTC)

== my wikipedia page has notices and I request their removal ==

Dear Wikipedia Team,

My wikipedia webpage (<nowiki>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Broadbent</nowiki>) has this notice attached:

"This article '''may rely excessively on sources [[Wikipedia:Verifiability#Self-published sources|too closely associated with the subject]]''', potentially preventing the article from being [[Wikipedia:Verifiability|verifiable]] and [[Wikipedia:Neutral point of view|neutral]].  ''(December 2024)"''

This accusation is not accurate.  The biographical statements made are fully verifiable and neutral; they are all referenced to objective sources as you can see in the entry.  

I did not originally create this wiki page.  However, although I am the subject of the wiki page, I took the liberty to make some clarifications in the biography and put in references to objective sources proving the claims.   I also added my most recent publication with a link to its source journal.

As to the second concern, 

"The topic of this article '''may not meet Wikipedia's [[Wikipedia:Notability (academics)|notability guideline for academics]]'''.  ''(December 2024)"''

I guess someone must decide whether my accomplishments are sufficient to be given a Wikipedia page or not.

I would most appreciate it if you would remove these notices.

Many thanks for your attention to this matter.

Best regards,

Jeff     [[User:Broad001|Broad001]] ([[User talk:Broad001|talk]]) 01:58, 6 February 2025 (UTC)

:Hello, @[[User:Broad001|Broad001]].  Please read [[Wikipedia:Notability (academics)]]. I suggest you also read [[Wikipedia:Autobiography#Creating an article about yourself|WP:AUTO]]. [[User:Nedia020415|Nedia]] [[User talk:Nedia020415|Wanna talk?]] [[Special:Contributions/Nedia020415|Stalk my edits]] 02:33, 6 February 2025 (UTC)
::At [[Jeffrey Broadbent]] for now, the tags stay. You have extensively edited the article that is about you (tsk, tsk). Also, your career may not meet any of the criteria at the above-mentioned notability guide for academics. However, one possibility is "The person has had a substantial impact outside academia in their academic capacity.", which may apply to COMPON. The problem there is that there is no reference to confirm you initiated COMPON, only that you are on the Steering Committee.  [[User:David notMD|David notMD]] ([[User talk:David notMD|talk]]) 08:45, 6 February 2025 (UTC)
:::I agree with @[[User:David notMD|David notMD]]. [[User:Nedia020415|Nedia]] [[User talk:Nedia020415|Wanna talk?]] [[Special:Contributions/Nedia020415|Stalk my edits]] 18:57, 6 February 2025 (UTC)
:We're gonna keep them. You'll live. [[User:DACartman|DACartman]] ([[User talk:DACartman|talk]]) 21:12, 6 February 2025 (UTC)
::That last is harshly worded, but I still stand by keeping the tags. For example, the External link to your research website states that you initiated COMPON, but as that site is by you, it cannot be considered independent. [[User:David notMD|David notMD]] ([[User talk:David notMD|talk]]) 22:04, 6 February 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|DACartman}} You probably need to take a look at [[:WP:BLPKIND]]. If you're going to be answering questions at the Teahouse, [[:WP:BITE|you probably should tone your comments down a bit]]. Most of those posting here for help are new and unfamiliar with how Wikipedia works. So, please keep that in mind moving forward. -- [[User:Marchjuly|Marchjuly]] ([[User talk:Marchjuly|talk]]) 22:44, 6 February 2025 (UTC)

== User sandboxes ==

Can I request deletion on user sandboxes? [[User:AKidFromBethany|<span style="background-color:black; color:white;">'''akidfrombethany!'''</span>]](<sub>[[User_talk:AKidFromBethany|talk]]</sub>|<sup>[[Special:Contributions/AKidFromBethany|contribs]]</sup>) 02:39, 7 February 2025 (UTC)

:@[[User:AKidFromBethany|AKidFromBethany]]: Yes, but only if it is being used for something completely unrelated to Wikipedia or it contains something that needs to be deleted rather than blanked (like a copyright violation or personal information). I think last year a long-standing admin had a sandbox deleted that was just a list of fictional heroes that could inhabit a fictional universe together. What's the reason to delete this sandbox? [[User:Rjjiii|<span style="font-variant:small-caps;">Rjj<sup>iii</sup></span>]] ([[User talk:Rjjiii|talk]]) 03:08, 7 February 2025 (UTC)
::I want to clear out one of my sandboxes, and was wondering if I could request to delete my own. [[User:AKidFromBethany|<span style="background-color:black; color:white;">'''akidfrombethany!'''</span>]](<sub>[[User_talk:AKidFromBethany|talk]]</sub>|<sup>[[Special:Contributions/AKidFromBethany|contribs]]</sup>) 03:09, 7 February 2025 (UTC)
:::@[[User:AKidFromBethany|AKidFromBethany]]: oh yeah, that's fine. For the rationale, use [[WP:U1]]. [[User:Rjjiii|<span style="font-variant:small-caps;">Rjj<sup>iii</sup></span>]] ([[User talk:Rjjiii|talk]]) 03:29, 7 February 2025 (UTC)

== Did you know ==

Can you nominate other Wikipedian articles despite not being the author/creator of said articles?  Also, if you helped improved on said articles (not the being the article creator) is it still permissible to make nominations?  [[User:Rager7|<span style="background-color: red; color: blue">Rager7</span>]] ([[User talk:Rager7|talk]]) 23:56, 6 February 2025 (UTC)

:Hello {{u|Rager7}}, this is rarely done, but not disallowed by [[Wikipedia:Did you know/Guidelines]]. You'll get the best answers on DYK questions by posting the question (or in this case a link to this thread since it's already been asked here) over at [[Wikipedia talk:Did you know]]. I would suggest notifying the main author of the article with a {{tl|ping}} on the DYK nomination or on the article's talk page. Also, is the article in question [[2025 Southeast Europe retail boycotts]]? If so, either you or the creator might want to nominate it by tomorrow so that it still meets DYK's newness criteria. [[User:Rjjiii|<span style="font-variant:small-caps;">Rjj<sup>iii</sup></span>]] ([[User talk:Rjjiii|talk]]) 03:17, 7 February 2025 (UTC)
::@[[User:Rjjiii|Rjjiii]] Yeah, I just wanted to make sure. The guidelines did say that anyone can nominate an article as a long they're auto confirmed.  [[User:Rager7|<span style="background-color: red; color: blue">Rager7</span>]] ([[User talk:Rager7|talk]]) 03:20, 7 February 2025 (UTC)
:::@[[User:Rager7|Rager7]]: Gotcha, and good luck with the DYK. Feel free to reach out if you have more questions, [[User:Rjjiii|<span style="font-variant:small-caps;">Rjj<sup>iii</sup></span>]] ([[User talk:Rjjiii|talk]]) 03:30, 7 February 2025 (UTC)

== Yuriyan retriever page submission rejected ==

"I’m really eager to understand how to improve my submission to increase its chances of being accepted. Is there anyone who could help revise or assist me in editing the page? I’m quite confused—how can a page like  [[Draft:Yuriyan Retriever]], which already exists in Japanese and features someone so well-known, be declined in English? Any guidance would be greatly appreciated!" [[User:Tanak001|Tanak001]] ([[User talk:Tanak001|talk]]) 04:06, 5 February 2025 (UTC)
:{{u|Tanak001}} English Wikipedia requires that for a living person, all statements of fact need to be verified by references. See [[WP:BLP]]. [[User:David notMD|David notMD]] ([[User talk:David notMD|talk]]) 04:24, 5 February 2025 (UTC)
:Hi {{u|Tanak001}}. There are many different language Wikipedias, but they're each considered separate projects with their own policies and guidelines. Since English Wikipedia was the first to be established, many of the other projects do lots of things the same way and have similar policies and guidelines; so, ideally, everything should mesh together when it comes to things like [[:WP:N]]. Unfortunately, not all of the other project communities are as large as English Wikipedia's or are as vigorous in applying their project's policy and guidelines as English Wikipedia's is, which means there's lots of content being hosted on other Wikipedia's that probably shouldn't be being hosted at all. For sure, English Wikipedia as similar problems, but it seems to be doing a bit of a better job in looking for such content and dealing with it when it finds it than perhaps the other projects are doing. For this reason, the English Wikipedia community decided per [[:WP:OTHERLANGS]] that an article existing on another language Wikipedia doesn't automatically mean it should exist on English Wikipedia, and the subject itself would still need to meet English Wikipedia's notabiity guidelines. The same applies to content of other language Wikipedia articles in that it needs to meet relevant English Wikipedia policies and guidelines for it to be OK for English Wikipedia. This doesn't mean the an article about subject on another language Wikipedia has zero value so to speak; for example, if the sources cited in the non-English article are considered reliable per [[:WP:RS]], they can also be cited on English Wikipedia even if not in English, but they will need to be assessed in terms of English Wikipedia policies and guideline. Finally, if your draft includes any content translated from the Japanese Wikipedia article, please make sure you're following the guidance given in [[:WP:TRANSLATION]] and [[WP:TFOLWP]]. -- [[User:Marchjuly|Marchjuly]] ([[User talk:Marchjuly|talk]]) 04:54, 5 February 2025 (UTC)
::Thank you for your guidance [[User:Tanak001|Tanak001]] ([[User talk:Tanak001|talk]]) 04:58, 5 February 2025 (UTC)
:::{{ping|Tanak001}} The Japanese Wikipedia article [[:ja:ゆりやんレトリィバァ]] has lots of content and citations, but Japanese Wikipedia articles can get a bit bloated with [[:WP:NOTEVERYTHING|lots of trivial information]] and [[:WP:NOTRS|questionable sourcing]], particularly articles about popular entertainers like Yoshida, because fans editing the article might not be too familiar with relevant policies and guidelines; most of those people probably mean well, but [[:WP:NOTHERE|many tend to treat the article more like fan page than an encyclopedic article]]. Again, the same thing happens on English Wikipedia too, but (once again) English Wikipedia seems to a bit better at finding such things and cleaning them up.{{pb}} Anyway, since you've mentioned the Japanese Wikipedia article, I'm assuming your competent enough in Japanese to read the article and check the reliability of the sources cited. What you might want to do is focus on the things that Yoshida really is Wikipedia Notable for and find the best reliable sources that support that claim of notability; in other words, trim your draft of anything unsourced or trivial so that the claim of Wikipedia notability is clearer to see (for example, a sentence in the draft like "In October 2020, she revealed that she had successfully lost 36 kg (79 lbs). She clarified that her previous weight was not part of her comedy persona but simply a result of overeating." is not only unsourced but rather trivial (at least for English Wikipedia purposes)). You shouldn't really try to re-create the Japanese Wikipedia article word for word in your draft because doing so is likely to add lots of content that's either unsourced or not really relevant encyclopedically. Many think more is always better when it comes to drafts, but more can make things murky and notability harder to assess. Drafts can often be improved by removing what's not needed and focusing on what makes someone Wikipedia notable. -- [[User:Marchjuly|Marchjuly]] ([[User talk:Marchjuly|talk]]) 04:54, 5 February 2025 (UTC)
:@[[User:Tanak001|Tanak001]] When you translate an article. 
:Never forget to make the necessary changes like remove sources that aren't considered "[[Wikipedia:Reliable sources|reliable]]" in the eyes of "[[English Wikipedia|Wikipedia in English]]". <br /> <br />
:Translate an article from another language version of Wikipedia is more than a translation. This is an adaptation. [[User:Anatole-berthe|Anatole-berthe]] ([[User talk:Anatole-berthe|talk]]) 21:31, 5 February 2025 (UTC)
::More info to be found at [[Help:Translation]]. [[User:Lectonar|Lectonar]] ([[User talk:Lectonar|talk]]) 15:43, 6 February 2025 (UTC)
:@[[User:Tanak001|Tanak001]] I think the community brought you sufficient help. Do you think you need more help ? [[User:Anatole-berthe|Anatole-berthe]] ([[User talk:Anatole-berthe|talk]]) 08:22, 7 February 2025 (UTC)

== Seeking guidance on list structure ==

Hello. I'm trying to figure out how to better structure the categories and lists for communities in the province of [[Nova Scotia]], Canada. It all started when I noticed that [[:Category:Lists of communities in Nova Scotia|every county in N.S. has it's own list article]] for unincorporated communities, compared to the province of [[:Category:Lists of populated places in Ontario|Ontario]] which keeps all unincorporated communities in [[List of unincorporated communities in Ontario|one list article]] nestled under the parent category of "Lists of populated places in Ontario". I posted about the topic in [[WP:CANADA]], initially intending to make the Nova Scotia list more akin to the Ontario list, but after encountering [[List of communities in Saskatchewan]], I'm now wondering if it wouldn't be better to provide a more thorough overview for each type of community on what would be the top-level navigation page for the topic. I'm aiming to get some more featured lists for Nova Scotia and I think I need some advice from someone more experienced before I take action on this. How would you folks handle it? Thank you. — [[User:Kylemahar902|Kylemahar902]] ([[User talk:Kylemahar902|talk]]) 12:24, 7 February 2025 (UTC)

:Clarification:
:The top level page for Nova Scotia is [[List of communities in Nova Scotia]].
:The top level page for Ontario is [[List of communities in Ontario]]
:Obviously there's no one "right way," but I'm trying to find the "best way". If more clarification is needed please let me know. [[User:Kylemahar902|Kylemahar902]] ([[User talk:Kylemahar902|talk]]) 12:28, 7 February 2025 (UTC)
::Hello, @[[User:Kylemahar902|Kylemahar902]]. I really don't think you're going to get any better answer here than at [[WT:CANADA]]. [[User:ColinFine|ColinFine]] ([[User talk:ColinFine|talk]]) 14:33, 7 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Hi @[[User:ColinFine|ColinFine]], thanks for replying. I figured this was kind of a long shot but I'm not too keen on the idea of just taking it upon myself to make great sweeping changes to the article structure for places in an entire province without some form of consensus. [[WT:CANADA]] is a bit of a ghost town. Do you think there's anywhere else I might be able to seek input? Thank you. — [[User:Kylemahar902|Kylemahar902]] ([[User talk:Kylemahar902|talk]]) 14:38, 7 February 2025 (UTC)
::::You could always file a [[WP:RFC| request for comment.]] The editors there may be able to help you reach consensus. Hope it helps! ([[User talk: Acer-the-Protogen|Acer's Communication Receptacle &#124; <small>what did I do now</small>]]) &#124; (PS: Have a good day) (acer was here)  15:44, 7 February 2025 (UTC)

== Citations not working ==

I was trying to convert the citations at [[Battle of Ash-Shihr (1523)]] to look something like the ones in [[Sheba]] but they can't seem to work. My edit was tagged as having a "harv-error" <span style="text-shadow:#000 0em 0em 1em">[[Mukarrib|<span style="color:#000">𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨</span>]]&nbsp;[[User:Abo Yemen|<span style="color:#CD0000">Abo Yemen</span>]] ([[User talk:Abo Yemen|<span style="color:#000">𓃵</span>]])</span> 16:20, 7 February 2025 (UTC)

:@[[User:Abo Yemen|Abo Yemen]] Both these articles seem to be using [[Help:Shortened footnotes|shortened footnotes]], not [[Wikipedia:Harvard citation template examples|Harvard citations]]. Thus you should not be using any harvard-type templates, only ones like {{t|sfn}}. If the linked pages don't help, you will have to explain the problem in more detail. [[User:Michael D. Turnbull|Mike Turnbull]] ([[User talk:Michael D. Turnbull|talk]]) 16:38, 7 February 2025 (UTC)
::I managed to fix the issue [[special:diff/1274490704|here]]. Thank you for those links <span style="text-shadow:#000 0em 0em 1em">[[Mukarrib|<span style="color:#000">𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨</span>]]&nbsp;[[User:Abo Yemen|<span style="color:#CD0000">Abo Yemen</span>]] ([[User talk:Abo Yemen|<span style="color:#000">𓃵</span>]])</span> 17:00, 7 February 2025 (UTC)

== Creating a new category ==

Hello all. I recently posted a question about creating a new category on the related talk page [[Talk:Historic Artists' Homes and Studios]]<nowiki>. Is that the right way to go about it? Thank you for any guidance. ~~~</nowiki> [[User:Remando|Remando]] ([[User talk:Remando|talk]]) 17:05, 7 February 2025 (UTC)

:@[[User:Remando|Remando]] It's worth a shot, but since you were the first person to edit that talkpage since 2017, it's not that certain that anyone interested is actually ''looking''. WP has about 126 000 active editors and almost 7 million articles. So, if nobody replies in a couple of days, you should try elsewhere, like... HERE! Someone here might have some good advice, or you can try for example [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Categories]]. [[User:Gråbergs Gråa Sång|Gråbergs Gråa Sång]] ([[User talk:Gråbergs Gråa Sång|talk]]) 17:37, 7 February 2025 (UTC)
::I appreciate your response, @[[User:Gråbergs Gråa Sång|Gråbergs Gråa Sång]]<nowiki>, & good to know about that WikiProject! :) ~~~</nowiki> [[User:Remando|Remando]] ([[User talk:Remando|talk]]) 22:01, 7 February 2025 (UTC)

== Are these topics notable enough for Wikipedia? ==

# Sequelitis/Franchise Fatigue: Term used for when sequels and subsequent instalments in a franchise get significantly worse overtime and fail to live up to the original, usually leading to critical or financial failure. Some notable examples include [[Jaws (franchise)|Jaws]], [[Pirates of the Caribbean]], [[Call of Duty]], [[FIFA (video game series)|FIFA]], [[Madden NFL|Madden]], [[Jurassic Park|Jurassic Park/World]], [[Indiana Jones]], [[Daddy Day Care (film series)|Daddy Day Care]], [[Ice Age (franchise)|Ice Age]], Todd Philips' Joker, and [[Home Alone (franchise)|Home Alone]]. It has seen official usage by journalists and news outlets such as The Guardian and Variety.
# Aphmau: American Minecraft YouTuber with 22.9 million subscribers. She has her own line of food products and merchandise, has been nominated for [[Streamy Awards]] and [[Nickelodeon Kids' Choice Awards|Kids Choice Awards]], and is set to appear in [[A Minecraft Movie]]. She has been covered by sources such as Game Rant and Business Insider.

I wanted to ask here first before making drafts and having them rejected. [[User:Edelgardvonhresvelg|Edelgardvonhresvelg]] ([[User talk:Edelgardvonhresvelg|talk]]) 07:12, 6 February 2025 (UTC)

:[[User:Edelgardvonhresvelg|Edelgardvonhresvelg]], the former sounds like one or other of two putative dictionary definitions. But this is not a dictionary; it's an encyclopedia. As for the latter, ask yourself which notability criterion described in [[Wikipedia:Notability (people)]] she passes and how you'll be able to demonstrate in the draft that she passes it. -- [[User:Hoary|Hoary]] ([[User talk:Hoary|talk]]) 07:21, 6 February 2025 (UTC)
::{{u|Edelgardvonhresvelg}}, routine usage of recently coined terms or [[neologisms]] does not confer notability on those words. See [[WP:DICDEF]]. On the other hand, if you can find reliable sources that devote significant coverage to the phenomenon of film franchises declining, that discuss and compare and contrast several films franchises that declined in depth, then you may be able to develop an acceptable article.  It's got to be much more than something like "Sadly, Christopher Reeve's [[Superman]] film franchise went downhill from 1978 to 1987." That's simply stating the obvious. [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 07:41, 6 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Sequelitis and Franchise Fatigue have been attributed to why certain big budget films failed at the box-office such as [[Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Men Tell No Tales|Pirates of The Caribbean: Dead Men Tell No Tales]], [[Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny|Indiana Jones and The Dial of Destiny]], and [[Transformers: The Last Knight]]. I wanted to ask here before making a draft for it, because neologisms like [[Brain rot]] and [[AI slop]] have pages, two terms that emerged far more recently than sequelitis. However, I understand that simply stating "Ice Age's box-office and critical reception worsened with every release, with [[Ice Age: Collision Course]] failing to meet expectations domestically" is not encyclopaedic enough. [[User:Edelgardvonhresvelg|Edelgardvonhresvelg]] ([[User talk:Edelgardvonhresvelg|talk]]) 14:56, 6 February 2025 (UTC)
::::I think a useful article could be written if based on more academic analysis of sequelitis rather than focusing on pop media. I found the following decent sources for a start:
::::*The chapter "From Sequelitis to the Forever Franchise" in ''Hollywood Remaking'' (Kathleen Loock, 2024, University of California Press)
::::*The chapter "Just when you thought it was safe" in ''The Jaws Book'' (I.Q. Hunter, 2020, Bloomsbury Publishing)
::::<s>*The chapter "Sequelism, Sequelitis and Seasonal Rot" in ''The Sequel Superior'' (Edward K. Eckhart-Zinn, 2020, Dorrance Publishing)</s>
::::*The chapter "Gripped by Suspense" in ''Mood and Mobility'' (Richard Coyne, 2024, MIT Press)
:::: [[User:Schazjmd|<span style="color:#066293;">'''Schazjmd'''</span>]]&nbsp;[[User talk:Schazjmd|<span style="color:#738276;">''(talk)''</span>]] 16:36, 6 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::Thank you so much for these. I think that a decent article can be made like the AI slop and Brain rot articles with both the academic sources and news outlets.
:::::As for my Aphmau question, she doesn't really fit into the categories on the Notability page, but I think that internet personalities have different notability standards compared to "normal" entertainers like [[Pablo Motos]] or [[Brett Cooper (commentator)|Brett Cooper]].  [[User:Edelgardvonhresvelg|Edelgardvonhresvelg]] ([[User talk:Edelgardvonhresvelg|talk]]) 19:36, 6 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::There is no unique notability requirement for internet personalities; they need to meet [[WP:BASIC]] (which is really just reiterating [[WP:GNG|the general notability]] guidance). [[User:Schazjmd|<span style="color:#066293;">'''Schazjmd'''</span>]]&nbsp;[[User talk:Schazjmd|<span style="color:#738276;">''(talk)''</span>]] 20:45, 6 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::Three books from publishers whose name I immediately recognized, and one from a name (Dorrance) I didn't. Their website is very keen to help prospective authors and doesn't seem to mention that they ''do'' publish in such-and-such areas but ''don't'' publish in such-and-such other areas. So all in all I suspect that this is a vanity publisher. -- [[User:Hoary|Hoary]] ([[User talk:Hoary|talk]]) 07:34, 7 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::You're right, Hoary, thanks for catching that. [[User:Schazjmd|<span style="color:#066293;">'''Schazjmd'''</span>]]&nbsp;[[User talk:Schazjmd|<span style="color:#738276;">''(talk)''</span>]] 14:05, 7 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::::So, these books except for ''The Sequel Superior'' can be sourced for the Sequelitis draft? Also, how can I find and source these books without physically or digitally owning them, or will I need to purchase them for the creation of the draft? [[User:Edelgardvonhresvelg|Edelgardvonhresvelg]] ([[User talk:Edelgardvonhresvelg|talk]]) 18:05, 7 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::::@[[User:Edelgardvonhresvelg|Edelgardvonhresvelg]], you might be able to get the books through your library or via inter-library loan request. [[User:Schazjmd|<span style="color:#066293;">'''Schazjmd'''</span>]]&nbsp;[[User talk:Schazjmd|<span style="color:#738276;">''(talk)''</span>]] 18:09, 7 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::Thank you for the help. I already have a rough draft in Microsoft Word using just the news outlet sources like Variety, The Guardian, and Screen Rant. Once I or another interested editor have these books, I will submit the draft for review if the news outlets aren't enough. 
:::::::::What franchises can I use for a "notable examples" section besides ''Pirates of the Caribbean, Ice Age, DC (films only), Transformers, Jurassic Park, Jaws, and'' ''Indiana Jones''? Does The ''Exorcist'' fall under sequelitis? Every film past the first one has been critically panned, and [[Exorcist II: The Heretic|''Exorcist II: The Heretic'']] is widely considered one of [[List of films considered the worst|the worst movies ever made]]. Yet not a single ''Exorcist'' sequel has flopped to my knowledge, unlike the other franchises ([[Jurassic World Dominion|''Jurassic World: Dominion'']] and [[Ice Age: Collision Course|''Ice Age: Collision Course'']] flopped domestically). [[User:Edelgardvonhresvelg|Edelgardvonhresvelg]] ([[User talk:Edelgardvonhresvelg|talk]]) 18:44, 7 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::You'll want sources that specifically mention "sequelitis" for a specific franchise. [[User:Schazjmd|<span style="color:#066293;">'''Schazjmd'''</span>]]&nbsp;[[User talk:Schazjmd|<span style="color:#738276;">''(talk)''</span>]] 18:53, 7 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::There are sources from the outlets that I mentioned discussing sequelitis in the listed franchises. This is the last thing that I will say before this is archived, will the current [[Sequelitis]] redirect be changed to the new article if it is accepted? I can put "not to be confused with the web series by Arin Hanson" on the draft. [[User:Edelgardvonhresvelg|Edelgardvonhresvelg]] ([[User talk:Edelgardvonhresvelg|talk]]) 19:09, 7 February 2025 (UTC)

:::::::::::[[User:Edelgardvonhresvelg|Edelgardvonhresvelg]], it seems that you want to write about a phenomenon, one that has been called "sequelitis" but hasn't always been called that. Titling the article "sequelitis" would be proper. The article would of course have to be based on materials about "sequelitis". (These materials wouldn't have to use the word "sequelitis" when describing the phenomenon.) Use the title [[Draft:Sequelitis]] as your title: the AfC reviewer will (or anyway should) know what to do with this. I suggest that you start with the examples that are discussed in the sources that you already have, that you continue with examples discussed in the sources that you later acquire, and that if you then want more examples you post a request for them at [[WT:WikiProject Film]]. -- [[User:Hoary|Hoary]] ([[User talk:Hoary|talk]]) 22:42, 7 February 2025 (UTC)

== Cant add a Chinese Traslation ==

Hi, I am trying to add a Chinese version of my school (Rovigo Conservatory of Music) to its wiki page, but it keeps on getting critical error. Do anyone know how can I do that, or maybe help me with this task?

Link below：[[Rovigo Conservatory of Music|https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rovigo_Conservatory_of_Music]]

Many thanks [[User:Ghettolied|Ghettolied]] ([[User talk:Ghettolied|talk]]) 16:51, 7 February 2025 (UTC)

:@[[User:Ghettolied|Ghettolied]] Not sure what you mean by "Chinese version of my school". Are you saying that there is an article about the school on Chinese Wikipedia? [[User:Gråbergs Gråa Sång|Gråbergs Gråa Sång]] ([[User talk:Gråbergs Gråa Sång|talk]]) 17:12, 7 February 2025 (UTC)
::@[[User:Gråbergs Gråa Sång|Gråbergs Gråa Sång]] I don't think there are an article about this school on "[[Chinese Wikipedia|Wikipedia in Chinese]]" because there are no interlinks on WikiData. 


EDIT : Maybe the user want to add an interlink on WikiData about the version in Chinese. [[User:Anatole-berthe|Anatole-berthe]] ([[User talk:Anatole-berthe|talk]]) 00:08, 8 February 2025 (UTC)

:@[[User:Ghettolied|Ghettolied]] Do you think you could search for it on the Chinese Wikipedia (here [https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:%E9%A6%96%E9%A1%B5]) and paste the link here if you find it? <span style="font-family: Brush Script MT; text-shadow: 5px 3px 8px;">[[User:Sophisticatedevening|<span style="color: purple">Sophisticatedevening</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Sophisticatedevening|<span style="color: purple">(talk)</span>]]</sup></span> 00:46, 8 February 2025 (UTC)

== Notability ==

{{Courtesy link|Lago della Meja}}

Hello Teahouse, I have come across this article. It has a grand total of a sentence. Does it qualify [[Wikipedia:Notability|general notability]] or [[Wikipedia:Notability (geographic features)|geographic notability]]? Thank you, [[User:CF-501 Falcon|CF-501 Falcon]] ([[User talk:CF-501 Falcon|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/CF-501_Falcon|contribs]]) 22:45, 7 February 2025 (UTC)

:[[Beneditinos|This]] article is also like the above. Cheers, [[User:CF-501 Falcon|CF-501 Falcon]] ([[User talk:CF-501 Falcon|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/CF-501_Falcon|contribs]]) 23:48, 7 February 2025 (UTC)
:If I can make one comment. This is the next. The article "[[Lago della Meja]]" is not sourced. [[User:Anatole-berthe|Anatole-berthe]] ([[User talk:Anatole-berthe|talk]]) 00:21, 8 February 2025 (UTC)

:Virtually no articles are notable. (The few exceptions include "[[John Seigenthaler]]": notable for the wrong reasons; see [[Wikipedia Seigenthaler biography incident]].) The questions to ask are: Does the article demonstrate the notability of its subject? Is the subject of the article notable? [[User:CF-501 Falcon|CF-501 Falcon]], you are rightly concerned about the article [[Lago della Meja]]. Is the lake notable? Well, use a search engine and evaluate what this brings you. -- [[User:Hoary|Hoary]] ([[User talk:Hoary|talk]]) 00:52, 8 February 2025 (UTC)
::@[[User:Hoary|Hoary]], No in my opinion it is not. The search results don't show much for Lago della Meja. I am going to [[Wikipedia:Proposed deletion|propose the article for deletion]] and see where that goes. Thank you for your advice. Cheers, [[User:CF-501 Falcon|CF-501 Falcon]] ([[User talk:CF-501 Falcon|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/CF-501_Falcon|contribs]]) 01:19, 8 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Certainly the references cited for [[:it:Lago della Meja]] say very little. -- [[User:Hoary|Hoary]] ([[User talk:Hoary|talk]]) 01:47, 8 February 2025 (UTC)

== Second opinion on a mentorship module question ==

Hiya, would someone be willing to give a second opinion [[User talk:Justiyaya#Question from Affinitystar (05:22, 8 February 2025)|on my talk]] about whether {{diff|Jesse Watters|1274561183|1274194393|these edits}} are within policy? Thank you! [[User:Justiyaya|'''<span style="color:#1d556d">Just</span>''']][[Special:Contributions/Justiyaya|'''<span style="color:#000000">i</span>''']][[User talk:Justiyaya#top|'''<span style="color:#6d351d">yaya</span>''']] 05:59, 8 February 2025 (UTC)

:@[[User:Justiyaya|Justiyaya]] I just replied with my thoughts. [[User:Helpful Raccoon|Helpful Raccoon]] ([[User talk:Helpful Raccoon|talk]]) 07:30, 8 February 2025 (UTC)

== Userpage question ==

Under the "Things to monitor" section on my userpage, I'm trying to link to a category without making it a category of the page itself. Does anyone know how to do this the right way? [[User:Electricmemory|Electricmemory]] ([[User talk:Electricmemory|talk]]) 06:32, 8 February 2025 (UTC)
:@[[User:Electricmemory|Electricmemory]]: {{welcometea}} If you put a colon beforehand, you'll link to the category but not turn the page into one of its members. For example, <code><nowiki>[[:Category:Example]]</nowiki></code> gets you [[:Category:Example]]. —[[User:Tenryuu|<span style="color:#556B2F">Tenryuu&nbsp;🐲</span>]]&nbsp;(&nbsp;[[User talk:Tenryuu|💬]]&nbsp;•&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/Tenryuu|📝]]&nbsp;) 07:41, 8 February 2025 (UTC)
::@[[User:Tenryuu|Tenryuu]] Thanks! [[User:Electricmemory|Electricmemory]] ([[User talk:Electricmemory|talk]]) 07:43, 8 February 2025 (UTC)

== Non-free content help needed? ==

Hello! I'm currently working on a song article about the song '''Vacations by Dirty Heads'''. I am currently confused about the non-free content policy (outlined [[Wikipedia:Non-free content|here]]) at Wikipedia local (I asked at commons, but they told me to ask here.)

I want to upload a photo of the song cover. Could anyone explain me as to how I should do this? <span style="color: #3200CC;">[[User:ArPerfectlyEdits|'''Arav'''PerfectlyEdits]]</span> <small>[[User talk: ArPerfectlyEdits|(talk)]]</small> 07:58, 8 February 2025 (UTC)

:@[[User:ArPerfectlyEdits|ArPerfectlyEdits]] You need to ensure you only upload non free use material to Wikipedia, not Commons. When uploading, use a low resolution, small physical sized (height and width)  file and stated that it is "Fair Use" bit ''only after the article where you wish to deploy it is in mainspace''. Fair use only applies in mainspace.
:You ought to be guided by the upload wizard to create a "Fair Use Rationale" but you will see after upload that you need to do so.
:I'm afraid policies in this area need to be complex. Breach of copyright is a legality issue. We need to protect both the copyright owner and Wikipedia. The implementation section of the policy you mention simply requires quiet contemplation and to be taken slowly, as with all legalese and works close to legalese 🇺🇦&nbsp;[[User:Timtrent|<span style="color:#800">Fiddle</span><sup><small>Timtrent</small></sup>]]&nbsp;[[User talk:Timtrent|<span style="color:#070">Faddle</span><sup><small>Talk&nbsp;to&nbsp;me</small></sup>]]&nbsp;🇺🇦 10:37, 8 February 2025 (UTC)

:{{U|ArPerfectlyEdits}}, non-free content policy is necessarily complex. But for now, bear in mind two things. First, no draft may include non-free content, and [[Draft:Vacation (Dirty Heads song)]] would be no exception. Secondly, the chances of success in submitting a draft for promotion to article status are not helped at all by the inclusion in the draft of images, even if the copyleft of those images are not problematic. Oh, a third: You've hardly started on [[Draft:Vacation (Dirty Heads song)]]; you have a lot of work to do on its ''text''. -- [[User:Hoary|Hoary]] ([[User talk:Hoary|talk]]) 10:45, 8 February 2025 (UTC)

== Italics Title ==

How do I make the title of the page [[Court of Gold]] be in italics? Thanks, [[User:Sushidude21!|Sushidude21!]] ([[User talk:Sushidude21!|talk]]) 11:01, 8 February 2025 (UTC)

:@[[User:Sushidude21!|Sushidude21!]] If you check a similar article, you'll see that this is done using the {{t|italic title}} template. Try that and if you have any problems, repost back here. [[User:Michael D. Turnbull|Mike Turnbull]] ([[User talk:Michael D. Turnbull|talk]]) 11:17, 8 February 2025 (UTC)

== Hyphen/dash conversion ==

Hi. My account has just been autoconfirmed. I've been reading about the increased functionality, such as Twinkle, which will be a great help. I was hoping there might be some additional preference gadgets to assist with routine copyediting and the like. In particular, some kind of scripted utility or subroutine that will convert hyphens in date ranges to dashes. One page I worked on had loads of those, and I had to amend them manually; it looks as if it is a common problem. Is there any kind of functionality that can handle this on a whole-page basis? Thank you. [[User:Spartathenian|Spartathenian]] ([[User talk:Spartathenian|talk]]) 09:28, 8 February 2025 (UTC)
: Just do what is easiest for you. There are bots that will along and convert hyphens and dashes to what they ought to be; don't waste an extra second worrying about it. [[User:Mathglot|Mathglot]] ([[User talk:Mathglot|talk]]) 09:59, 8 February 2025 (UTC)
: <small> Add ping [[User:Spartathenian|Spartathenian]]. [[User:Mathglot|Mathglot]] ([[User talk:Mathglot|talk]]) 10:01, 8 February 2025 (UTC)</small>
::Okay, thanks. I see there are numerous user-defined scripts available, though, so maybe one of those could do it. I'll look at them in more depth, when I have time, as it seems you have to upload them and so on. [[User:Spartathenian|Spartathenian]] ([[User talk:Spartathenian|talk]]) 10:57, 8 February 2025 (UTC)
:::@[[User:Spartathenian|Spartathenian]] Don't forget that the source editor, in its "advanced" menu, has a search-and-replace feature, so you could do that much like you would in a word processor (skipping the examples where the hyphen was correct). [[User:Michael D. Turnbull|Mike Turnbull]] ([[User talk:Michael D. Turnbull|talk]]) 11:23, 8 February 2025 (UTC)
::::Hi, {{u|Michael D. Turnbull|Mike}}. I hadn't seen that, and it is useful. Thanks very much. [[User:Spartathenian|Spartathenian]] ([[User talk:Spartathenian|talk]]) 11:53, 8 February 2025 (UTC)

Searching the site for possibilities, I've found [[User:Ohconfucius/dashes]] which seems to fit the bill. I've tried it out, and it has done the job, but I'll use it diligently. There are more scripts at the designer's home page. [[User:Spartathenian|Spartathenian]] ([[User talk:Spartathenian|talk]]) 12:49, 8 February 2025 (UTC)

== Article not appear on google search - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vikaasa_Parva ==

I created the Wikipedia article for 'Vikaasa Parva,' but it doesn't show up directly in Google search results. I have to click through the link to access the page. Can anyone explain why this is happening and how I can improve its visibility in search results? Thanks! [[User:Vikashcv|Vikashcv]] ([[User talk:Vikashcv|talk]]) 12:22, 8 February 2025 (UTC)
:You created [[Vikaasa Parva]] as an article on 5 February. It will need to be looked at by New Pages Patrol ([[WP:NPP]]) before it will be 'seen' by search engines such as Google. NPP has a large list of unreviewed articles, so this may take weeks to months. Also, you have a long list of items under References that are not properly formatted references. Work on improving the article while waiting for NPP. It is possible that NPP will revert the article to a draft if not improved. [[User:David notMD|David notMD]] ([[User talk:David notMD|talk]]) 12:44, 8 February 2025 (UTC)
:@[[User:Vikashcv|Vikashcv]] Your main aim now should be to show how this film is [[WP:NFILM|notable as defined by Wikipedia]]. For films, this almost always means that the article needs to include information about how the film was received by critics commenting in [[WP:RS|reliable sources]]. For foreign-language sources, you should, as a courtesy to readers, include a translation of the title and perhaps key quotes in English translation. See {{t|cite web}} for the parameters to use for this. [[User:Michael D. Turnbull|Mike Turnbull]] ([[User talk:Michael D. Turnbull|talk]]) 12:55, 8 February 2025 (UTC)

== Dear editors. Please let me know how can I get my knowledge of css improved?  ==

Need for improvement of my css knowledge [[User:Dee Soulza|Dee Soulza]] ([[User talk:Dee Soulza|talk]]) 10:17, 8 February 2025 (UTC)

:@[[User:Dee Soulza|Dee Soulza]] I use [https://www.w3schools.com/css/default.asp w3schools.com] to increase my meagre knowledge of CSS and much else besides 🇺🇦&nbsp;[[User:Timtrent|<span style="color:#800">Fiddle</span><sup><small>Timtrent</small></sup>]]&nbsp;[[User talk:Timtrent|<span style="color:#070">Faddle</span><sup><small>Talk&nbsp;to&nbsp;me</small></sup>]]&nbsp;🇺🇦 10:30, 8 February 2025 (UTC)
::I recommend this too. It's a really good down-to-earth module, and you'll learn a lot from it. Good luck. [[User:Spartathenian|Spartathenian]] ([[User talk:Spartathenian|talk]]) 11:55, 8 February 2025 (UTC)
::Thank you for your kind reply. [[User:Dee Soulza|Dee Soulza]] ([[User talk:Dee Soulza|talk]]) 13:03, 8 February 2025 (UTC)
:@[[User:Dee Soulza|Dee Soulza]]: Try reading [[CSS]]. If you want a good technical resource, try [https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS]. [[User:Bazza_7|Bazza&nbsp;<span style="color:grey">7</span>]] ([[User_talk:Bazza_7|talk]]) 10:32, 8 February 2025 (UTC)

== Question about listicles and references ==

Do listicles need each item to have a reference if the items themselves have corresponding Wikipedia articles? I assume the references are in the articles themselves. I'm asking because, while going through the cleanup page of the WikiProject Germany, I saw that the article [[List of German musicians]] got tagged as unreferenced. Thank you in advance! [[User:Paprikaiser|Paprikaiser]] ([[User talk:Paprikaiser|talk]]) 21:51, 6 February 2025 (UTC)

:@[[User:Paprikaiser|Paprikaiser]], Generally lists contain only [[Wikipedia:Lists in Wikipedia#Lists should generally only represent consensus opinion|established content]], as whoever has wikipedia article. in this manner it doesn't need any specific reference. The Unreferenced tag was included on ''31 January 2025 only'' through [[Special:Diff/1273023339|'''this edit''']].––[[User:KEmel49|kemel49]]<sup>([[User talk:KEmel49|connect]])([[Special:Contributions/KEmel49|contri]])</sup> 03:39, 7 February 2025 (UTC)
::Thank you! I'll keep that in mind. [[User:Paprikaiser|Paprikaiser]] ([[User talk:Paprikaiser|talk]]) 20:14, 8 February 2025 (UTC)
:@[[User:Paprikaiser|Paprikaiser]], I'm late but that list doesn't have any content that requires citations according to the guideline at [[WP:SOURCELIST]]. If it was a contentious category (say war criminals instead of musicians) then citations would be needed. Thanks for bringing it up here, [[User:Rjjiii|<span style="font-variant:small-caps;">Rjj<sup>iii</sup></span>]] ([[User talk:Rjjiii|talk]]) 03:44, 7 February 2025 (UTC)
::Thank you for answering! [[User:Paprikaiser|Paprikaiser]] ([[User talk:Paprikaiser|talk]]) 20:14, 8 February 2025 (UTC)

== How to request investigation in other language Wikipedia  ==

I see in Japan Wikipedia there is a lot of stuff is there about the Islam related pages such as jihad, islamism, Islamic fundamentalism, which are written in a Biased way I want to request investigation or fact check in their Wikipedia but not know how to do it [[User:獅眠洞|獅眠洞]] ([[User talk:獅眠洞|talk]]) 20:48, 8 February 2025 (UTC)

:We can't tell you how the Japanese Wikipedia operates; it is a separate project with its own editors and policies.  I assume that the overall structure is similar, and that each article there has its own article talk page, you should first express your concerns there. [[User:331dot|331dot]] ([[User talk:331dot|talk]]) 20:54, 8 February 2025 (UTC)
::Thnx u😇 [[User:獅眠洞|獅眠洞]] ([[User talk:獅眠洞|talk]]) 20:59, 8 February 2025 (UTC)

== Billboard Charts Archive Sources ==

Does anyone have a credible archive of the billboard charts going back to at least the 70s? Trying to find and add citations to certain music pages.

[[User:The words are unavailable|The words are unavailable]] ([[User talk:The words are unavailable|talk]]) 22:16, 8 February 2025 (UTC)
:Hi there, {{u|The words are unavailable}}! The ''Billboard'' chart histories are available on ''Billboard''{{'s}} website under the URL format, billboard(dot)com/artist/artist-name/chart-history (replacing 'artist-name' with the name of the artist, hyphenating between each word; [https://www.billboard.com/artist/chappell-roan/chart-history/ Chappell Roan's chart history] for example). You should be able to find a drop-down menu of charts on which the artist's music has appeared. Hope that helps, [[User:Dylan620|<span style="color:blue">Dylan</span><span style="color:purple">620</span>]] (he/him • [[User talk:Dylan620|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Dylan620|edits]]) 22:46, 8 February 2025 (UTC)

== Question about source reliability rating websites as WP:RS ==

Is there actually any website out there that we consider RS that gives its own separate ratings of source reliability?  Or is RSN all just based on the fact-checking (or whatever criteria) the editors do themselves?  I know we use Snopes and they do fact-checking, but that's just on an article-by-article basis.  By the way, it's kind of funny that there's a template on this page that says "Note: This page is semi-protected so that only autoconfirmed users can edit it. If you need help getting started with editing, please visit the Teahouse." 😂 [[User:Manuductive|Manuductive]] ([[User talk:Manuductive|talk]]) 00:08, 9 February 2025 (UTC)

:Hi @[[User:Manuductive|Manuductive]], what we consider a reliable source is based on the [[WP:RS]] guideline and discussion at [[WP:RSN]] not any external website (other than the source itself and anything disproving it). There's a list of commonly discussed and used sources at [[WP:RSP]]. [[User:Ultraodan|Ultraodan]] ([[User talk:Ultraodan|talk]]) 01:32, 9 February 2025 (UTC)

== Ask other wikipedia content writers to improve an article ==

Please help me to ask other wikipedia content writers to improve this draft article.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Significance_of_numbers_in_Hinduism [[User:Alangar Manickam|Alangar Manickam]] ([[User talk:Alangar Manickam|talk]]) 22:52, 7 February 2025 (UTC)

:The problem pointed out to you, [[User:Alangar Manickam|Alangar Manickam]], is that, in its current state, [[Draft:Significance of numbers in Hinduism]] "is not adequately supported by reliable sources". You're hoping that other editors will show which reliable sources support which of the many assertions in what you've already written. As a humdrum example: "Six enemies or impurities of mind are Lust, Anger, Greed, Pride, Delusion and Envy." Now, I can enter {{Blue|Hinduism Lust Anger Greed Pride Delusion Envy}} at Google, and perhaps find it, and if so then write a reference for it, but then you too can do all that. One good reason why you should do it rather than me is that I have little interest in your subject. (I've nothing against it; but I prefer to spend my time on other matters, matters that are unlikely to interest you.) Ditto for other Wikipedia editors. So you should tackle it. (Avoid "bare URLs". And you're likely to find named references a big help.) -- [[User:Hoary|Hoary]] ([[User talk:Hoary|talk]]) 00:30, 8 February 2025 (UTC)
:@[[User:Alangar Manickam|Alangar Manickam]]: I added {{tlx|WikiProject Hinduism}} to the draft talk page.  Maybe someone from that project would be willing to help you. [[User:GoingBatty|GoingBatty]] ([[User talk:GoingBatty|talk]]) 03:44, 8 February 2025 (UTC)
::Thank you so much for your help. Have a great day, much appreciated. [[User:Alangar Manickam|Alangar Manickam]] ([[User talk:Alangar Manickam|talk]]) 02:50, 9 February 2025 (UTC)

== Users who have already been banned on other projects ==

I contribute to [[WP:FPC|Feature Picture Candidates]] sometimes and in the last couple of months there's been a user, ArionStar, who has already been [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User_talk:ArionStar banned on Commons] for sockpuppetry (to the point they're now [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/ArionStar blocked from editing their own Commons talk page]), has ignored a number of warnings about how many nominations one can have on FPC at one time, and is alternately [[Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/Shocking Blue|antagonizing other users and asking them to do work for them]]. At what point does annoyance tip over the edge into bannable behavior? [[User:Moonreach|Moonreach]] ([[User talk:Moonreach|talk]]) 21:43, 8 February 2025 (UTC)
:Hello, {{u|Moonreach}}. Each Wikimedia project is separate and largely autonomous, so a block on another project has no direct effect on the English Wikipedia. However, if the same behavioral problems that led to a block there are also occurring here, that could lead to a block here. [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 22:23, 8 February 2025 (UTC)
:@[[User:Moonreach|Moonreach]], if you think what they're doing here is so seriously bad that they should be blocked, you can start a thread at [[WP:ANI]]. It looks like they were first blocked on commons for making careless featured picture nominations. I've only done a quick look through their recent history but it does look to me like they might be doing the same thing here, which could indeed be a problem, especially if they're also driving people crazy for additional reasons. Make sure you report it more like "here are the behavioural problems of this editor, by the way, they also have a significant block log on Commons for the same issue and sockpuppetry" and not like "here's a banned commons user who is also annoying over here" so you are less likely to be dismissed for the reason Cullen mentioned. -- [[User:Asilvering|asilvering]] ([[User talk:Asilvering|talk]]) 04:09, 9 February 2025 (UTC)

== Matching the information between 2 language versions of the same topic ==

Hi, I'm currently watching the English and Bangla pages for [[Kazi Nazrul Islam]] and have noticed several points of information present in the Bangla page missing from the English page. Is there any protocol I should be following to make the English page mirror the Bangla page more so they match?
I'm a native Bangla speaker so can translate the information myself, but would that be following protocol or is there a process I should adhere to? I'm editing in visual editor  [[User:XZY5|XZY5]] ([[User talk:XZY5|talk]]) 18:32, 8 February 2025 (UTC)
:Hello, {{u|XZY5}}. Start by reading [[WP:Translation]]. Be aware that each language version of Wikipedia sets its own content guidelines, so something that may OK in another language may be inappropriate on the English Wikipedia. For example, there is a very high expectation of [[WP:V|Verifiability]] here. [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 20:02, 8 February 2025 (UTC)
::Also be aware that this is a vital article, a [[WP:GA|Good article]] and a former [[WP:FA|Featured article]], so it has had an unusual level of scrutiny and peer review over the years. Please read the article talk page carefully. [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 20:11, 8 February 2025 (UTC)
:@[[User:XZY5|XZY5]] When you translate an article. 
:Never forget to make the necessary changes like remove sources '''(For the version in English. So , don't copy all sources from the article in another language version of Wikipedia)''' that aren't considered "[[Wikipedia:Reliable sources|reliable]]" in the eyes of "[[English Wikipedia|Wikipedia in English]]". <br /> <br />
:Translate an article from another language version of Wikipedia is more than a translation. This is an adaptation. [[User:Anatole-berthe|Anatole-berthe]] ([[User talk:Anatole-berthe|talk]]) 23:19, 8 February 2025 (UTC)
:My advice is: Most Wikipedia articles aren't worth translation (even in part). Treat the Bengali-language article as a potential font of new ideas (good or bad). Where an ingredient seems worthwhile and is lacking in the English-language articlee, look at the sources that it cites. If these sources seem reliable, summarize what they say, bypassing the Bengali-language article. (I hope I needn't add: if there are no sources, or if the sources don't seem to be reliable, then stop and move on to something else.) -- [[User:Hoary|Hoary]] ([[User talk:Hoary|talk]]) 07:18, 9 February 2025 (UTC)

== why cant i change the name of some articles? even though i made 10 edits ==

i was changing an article name as the information had been updated but it wont allow me [[User:Faisalisonline|Faisalisonline]] ([[User talk:Faisalisonline|talk]]) 09:46, 9 February 2025 (UTC)

:Hi @[[User:Faisalisonline|Faisalisonline]], you are autoconfirmed so you should be able to. However some pages are protected so only extended confirmed editors (500+ edits) or just administrators can move it. What page are you trying to move? [[User:Ultraodan|Ultraodan]] ([[User talk:Ultraodan|talk]]) 09:59, 9 February 2025 (UTC)
:This appears to be about [[Romford–Upminster line]]. {{ping|Faisalisonline}} you [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:AbuseLog&wpSearchUser=Faisalisonline triggered] an edit filter, "Filter description: Pagemove throttle for new users". I also see that your edits to the article have been reverted. It may be best to start a [[WP:Move request]]. [[User:MKFI|MKFI]] ([[User talk:MKFI|talk]]) 10:43, 9 February 2025 (UTC)
:@[[User:Faisalisonline|Faisalisonline]] Please see the messages (and helpful links) on your talk page and stop trying to move article titles without consensus. [[User:Shantavira|Shantavira]]|[[User talk:Shantavira|<sup>feed me</sup>]] 17:07, 9 February 2025 (UTC)

== Help with dates in Person Info Box and citation details marked up in red ==

Hello teahouse friends! I have a draft article that I feel is close to submitting for review. I cannot comprehend how I must enter the dates of birth and death for it to appear correctly. I've tried out various ways, and nothing works. Can someone fix this for me (or tell me how to do it?) Please and big thank you! [[Draft:Derek Pratt (watchmaker)]]

In addition, I have a callout at the top that states I have no citations, but I do... 

In fact, two of the citations require help with the publication dates. I entered everything correctly, per the book. I would greatly appreciate guidance with this, too. The book I'm referencing is this one: https://www.google.com/books/edition/Derek_Pratt_FBHI_Watchmaker/qt6kmwEACAAJ?hl=en

Huge thanks in advance! [[User:Louisetarp|Louisetarp]] ([[User talk:Louisetarp|talk]]) 18:22, 7 February 2025 (UTC)
:I've removed the "unsourced" tag, which was placed before sources were added. I also fixed the infobox. I also cleaned up the date problems in the refs. [[User:Schazjmd|<span style="color:#066293;">'''Schazjmd'''</span>]]&nbsp;[[User talk:Schazjmd|<span style="color:#738276;">''(talk)''</span>]] 18:31, 7 February 2025 (UTC)
::bless you, Schazjmd! That was so quick! Many many thanks!! [[User:Louisetarp|Louisetarp]] ([[User talk:Louisetarp|talk]]) 18:34, 7 February 2025 (UTC)
:::You have dozens of paragraphs that are not referenced. [[User:David notMD|David notMD]] ([[User talk:David notMD|talk]]) 19:48, 7 February 2025 (UTC)
::::There are a few hyperlinks in the body of the article that need to be removed - perhaps those can become references instead? Also, the Notable works content appears to list watches that are described in detail elsewhere. [[User:David notMD|David notMD]] ([[User talk:David notMD|talk]]) 19:58, 7 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::Hey David notMD, can you be more specific about your callouts? 1. dozens of paragraphs not referenced: are you saying there is too much unverified text? 2. which hyperlinks? 3. Notable works: I was thinking of this as a summary of the above, details at a glance kind of thing.. Is that not done? Thanks a million!! Really appreciate your input. [[User:Louisetarp|Louisetarp]] ([[User talk:Louisetarp|talk]]) 20:44, 7 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::Absolutely, yes, content needs to be verified. This can be done with multiple uses of the same references. The Oval, Exhibitions and elsewhere have numbered hyperlinks. Wikipedia does not do summaries or conclusions. [[User:David notMD|David notMD]] ([[User talk:David notMD|talk]]) 23:08, 7 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::::@[[User:Louisetarp|Louisetarp]] We '''do''' do summaries, as that's what the [[WP:LEAD]] of all articles is supposed to provide. The lead is not required to contain citations, since these can be inferred from citations in the main body of the article, but everything in the main article should be cited to sources which the reader can use to [[WP:V|verify]] the content. [[User:Michael D. Turnbull|Mike Turnbull]] ([[User talk:Michael D. Turnbull|talk]]) 23:33, 7 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::::thank you @[[User:Michael D. Turnbull|Michael D. Turnbull]] can you show me an example of a good summary example? 
::::::::Also, it's unclear to me if my Draft is already in the Articles for creation section? Or do I need to put it there? Or do I click the "Submit the draft for review" button? [[User:Louisetarp|Louisetarp]] ([[User talk:Louisetarp|talk]]) 13:33, 8 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::@[[User:Louisetarp|Louisetarp]] I hoped to find a [[WP:GOOD]] or [[WP:FEATURED]] article in the [[:Category:English watchmakers (people)]] but even [[John Harrison]] has not been assessed as high as that, which is where you would normally look for a good [[WP:LEAD|lead section]]. So, instead you could look at today's featured article (see main page). Your draft is in the correct place as an "article for creation" but you need to click the big blue button at the top, when you are ready, and that will submit it for review/formal feedback. [[User:Michael D. Turnbull|Mike Turnbull]] ([[User talk:Michael D. Turnbull|talk]]) 22:59, 8 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::@[[User:Michael D. Turnbull|Michael D. Turnbull]] you're being very generous! Thank you. Ha, if even John Harrison doesn't have a good lead section... I actually got the idea of having a "Notable Works" section that @[[User:David notMD|David notMD]] was saying is no good from the [[Ettore Sottsass]] page. It also seems convenient to see things at a glance, with bullet points, after the wordier stuff at the top. Shall I leave it and see what the formal feedback will be once I submit it, or is it wiser for me to just get rid of it prior to submitting? I'm really grateful for everyone chiming in and helping me! It's fun to be part of the Wiki community.  [[User:Louisetarp|Louisetarp]] ([[User talk:Louisetarp|talk]]) 01:49, 9 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::@[[User:Louisetarp|Louisetarp]] I think that what David was getting at is that notability is in the eye of the beholder. In Wikipedia, we assume that something is [[WP:N|notable]] if there is already an article here about it (which should be [[WP:WIKILINK|wikilinked]] if so) ''or'' should have a specific citation to verify that someone independent has noted it in a [[WP:RS|reliable source]]. So while [[tourbillon]] and [[remontoire]] have articles, they don't specifically mention Pratt's watches. For that reason, you should ideally add citations to sources that do. However, at this point your draft is already extensive, so if I were you I'd submit it and await informed feedback from a reviewer. [[User:Michael D. Turnbull|Mike Turnbull]] ([[User talk:Michael D. Turnbull|talk]]) 16:16, 9 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::This is incredibly helpful advice, @[[User:Michael D. Turnbull|Michael D. Turnbull]], and very diplomatically phrased.  Thank you so much. I will tinker with it a bit more and then press the Submit button. [[User:Louisetarp|Louisetarp]] ([[User talk:Louisetarp|talk]]) 17:42, 9 February 2025 (UTC)
:Better check the (many) details, [[User:Louisetarp|Louisetarp]]. This one jumped out at me: "His favorite [bicycle] was a [[Dursley Pedersen]], an early 19<sup>th</sup> century bicycle known for its hammock-style saddle" (unreferenced). It's a bit of a stretch to call any contraption from earlier than the 1860s a "bicycle". And you'd have to pay me to ride something from earlier than the 1880s, even for the shortest distance. The Dursley Pedersen dates from the very late 19th (not, please, "19<sup>th</sup>") century. -- [[User:Hoary|Hoary]] ([[User talk:Hoary|talk]]) 00:45, 8 February 2025 (UTC)
::I should have been more clear - I meant not summaries at the end. [[User:David notMD|David notMD]] ([[User talk:David notMD|talk]]) 04:51, 8 February 2025 (UTC)
:::thank you @[[User:David notMD|David notMD]] [[User:Louisetarp|Louisetarp]] ([[User talk:Louisetarp|talk]]) 13:29, 8 February 2025 (UTC)
::got it, thank you so much @[[User:Hoary|Hoary]]! Keep the comments coming, please :) Really appreciate the eagle eye. [[User:Louisetarp|Louisetarp]] ([[User talk:Louisetarp|talk]]) 13:27, 8 February 2025 (UTC)

== Wanting to add to Harriet Tubman's page - her presence in Sid Meier's Civilization VII ==

The page warned me that it is semi-protected and thus only autoconfirmed users can edit it.

I was told to ask here on the Teahouse of how to possibly make this addition? 

[[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harriet_Tubman|Link to the page in question- specifically looking at the 'Artistic Portrayals' subsection]]

[[User:Rythulian18|Rythulian18]] ([[User talk:Rythulian18|talk]]) 17:10, 9 February 2025 (UTC)
:You will need to make an [[WP:ER|edit request]] on the talk page; you may use the [[WP:ERW|edit request wizard]] to facilitate that. [[User:331dot|331dot]] ([[User talk:331dot|talk]]) 17:26, 9 February 2025 (UTC)
::{{u|Rythulian18}}, there is already an edit request on that talk page. What is required is a link to a reliable, independent source that discusses this information. [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 20:46, 9 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Oh right ok. Could you possibly direct me to the relevant edit request / talk page so I can provide a link, and perhaps make the addition?  [[User:Rythulian18|Rythulian18]] ([[User talk:Rythulian18|talk]]) 21:10, 9 February 2025 (UTC)
::::[[Talk:Harriet Tubman]]. -- [[User:Hoary|Hoary]] ([[User talk:Hoary|talk]]) 21:45, 9 February 2025 (UTC)
::::{{ping|Rythulian18}} You can make an edit request at [[:Talk:Harriet Tubman]]. If you use "edit request wizard" linked to above by {{u|331dot}}, the software should take care of the formatting and other things for you. You can also use the template {{tlx|Edit protected}} if you want to avoid using the wizard; there are instructions on how to do so given on the template's documentation page. You're not required to use the wizard or template for an edit request, but it helps keep things formated properly and does add the request to a queue of other similar requests so that it's easier for others to know about. In this case, though, the article "[[:Harriet Tubman]]" is  a [[:WP:FA]] and is also indefinitely protected due to being heavily vandalized over the years; so, there might be a quite a lot of people watching it. Finally, for articles like this, it's probably better for even auto-confirmed editors to be bit [[:WP:CAUTIOUS]] when editing them since anything too [[:WP:BOLD]] might get reverted. In addition. be prepared to explain how adding this content to the article isn't [[:WP:NOTEVERYTHING|trivial]] since some might see it as such. Citing reliable sources which discuss how adding a character for Tubman is significant to not only the game but also in other ways (e.g. it's the first time ever she's been depicted in such an videogame or computer game) instead of just linking to something that just lists or otherwise briefly mentions Tubman as one of the characters, might improve the chances of the content being added. Even if added, someone could still remove it and ask that a consensus for inclusion be sought on the article's talk page. -- [[User:Marchjuly|Marchjuly]] ([[User talk:Marchjuly|talk]]) 21:58, 9 February 2025 (UTC)

::::{{u|Rythulian18}}, you'd be repeating the gist of "[[Talk:Harriet_Tubman#Semi-protected_edit_request_on_3_February_2025|Semi-protected edit request on 3 February 2025]]". That request wasn't implemented, because of the lack of provision of either a reliable source or an indication of ''precisely what'' should replace ''precisely what''. Be sure to provide both. -- [[User:Hoary|Hoary]] ([[User talk:Hoary|talk]]) 22:30, 9 February 2025 (UTC)

== Why this page is getting rejected? ==

Hi all, I'm trying to create my first page, and it seems I'm having some trouble getting it done. Can someone please help?

This page: [[Draft:Nima Bagheri]] [[User:Jessica plutman|Jessica plutman]] ([[User talk:Jessica plutman|talk]]) 19:12, 5 February 2025 (UTC)
:{{u|Jessica plutman}} Hello and welcome. I reformatted your link, the whole url is not needed. First, have you seen the advice left by reviewers? [[User:331dot|331dot]] ([[User talk:331dot|talk]]) 19:15, 5 February 2025 (UTC)
::Yes, i did and i replied, got nothing back from them [[User:Jessica plutman|Jessica plutman]] ([[User talk:Jessica plutman|talk]]) 00:49, 8 February 2025 (UTC)
:::You need to be patient. Wait for a few days, and check.  [[User:Nedia020415|Nedia]] [[User talk:Nedia020415|Wanna talk?]] [[Special:Contributions/Nedia020415|Stalk my edits]] 01:22, 8 February 2025 (UTC)
:Hello, @[[User:Jessica plutman|Jessica plutman]]. Welcome to the teahouse! First, listen to the reviewers. And I suggest you add reliable sources, read  [[Wikipedia:Notability (people)]] and read [[Wikipedia:Paid-contribution disclosure]].   [[User:Nedia020415|Nedia]] [[User talk:Nedia020415|Wanna talk?]] [[Special:Contributions/Nedia020415|Stalk my edits]] 23:28, 5 February 2025 (UTC)
::Declined five times, which is not the same as Rejected. Of the nine refs, six are used to confirm he spoke at a conference. That sentence and refs do not contribute to establishing his notability. See [[WP:42]] for what references need to be. [[User:David notMD|David notMD]] ([[User talk:David notMD|talk]]) 01:42, 6 February 2025 (UTC)
:::He wrote a book about Satoshi Nakamoto, and he has a publisher, so it's not self-published [[User:Jessica plutman|Jessica plutman]] ([[User talk:Jessica plutman|talk]]) 00:56, 8 February 2025 (UTC)
::I did read those articles, and i have done a lot of research about him, he was mentioned on many independent Cyber security websites [[User:Jessica plutman|Jessica plutman]] ([[User talk:Jessica plutman|talk]]) 00:53, 8 February 2025 (UTC)
:::@[[User:Jessica plutman|Jessica plutman]] What are these websites ? My question is about your message dated from '''"FEB/08/2025"''' at '''"00:53 UTC"'''. [[User:Anatole-berthe|Anatole-berthe]] ([[User talk:Anatole-berthe|talk]]) 23:01, 8 February 2025 (UTC)
::::@[[User:Jessica plutman|Jessica plutman]] I've had three books published but that does not make me Wikipedia notable because no one has written about me. As for mentioned on websites, unless any of those are at-length about hime versus just a name mention, not enough. [[User:David notMD|David notMD]] ([[User talk:David notMD|talk]]) 23:34, 9 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::Correct, but he has been featured on many cybersecurity websites, such as the following: welivesecurity.com, thehackernews.com, security.nl, securityaffairs.com [[User:Jessica plutman|Jessica plutman]] ([[User talk:Jessica plutman|talk]]) 00:10, 10 February 2025 (UTC)
::::They're cybersecurity websites that cover his work. [[User:Jessica plutman|Jessica plutman]] ([[User talk:Jessica plutman|talk]]) 00:07, 10 February 2025 (UTC)

== Using Marxists.org as a citation for what a non-living person believed ==

Hi,

So there is a website, Marxists.org (aka, the [[Marxists Internet Archive|Marxist Internet Archive]], which Wikipedia describes as a "non profit encyclopedia") that has statements, transcribed speeches, articles, and books authored by various figures associated with Marxism. 

I want to edit information in an article pertaining to a historical figure's political views (for what it's worth, [[Fred Hampton]]). His political views, discussed in speeches he gave, can be readily found as transcribed articles on Marxists.org. Here are the articles I wanted to cite specifically: [https://www.marxists.org/archive/hampton/1969/11/class-struggle-godamnit.htm here], [https://www.marxists.org/archive/hampton/1969/04/27.htm here]. Am I able to cite these articles when making edits to the page? I am worried these are primary sources though I do not entirely know if they would be. [[User:Wikipedious1|Wikipedious1]] ([[User talk:Wikipedious1|talk]]) 21:44, 9 February 2025 (UTC)
:{{u|Wikipedious1}}, citing Hampton's speeches to support claims about Hampton's political views is fine. It won't help to establish that Hampton is notable – but that's fine, there's ample other evidence that he's notable. [[User:Maproom|Maproom]] ([[User talk:Maproom|talk]]) 21:52, 9 February 2025 (UTC)
::Thanks, appreciate the response [[User:Wikipedious1|Wikipedious1]] ([[User talk:Wikipedious1|talk]]) 21:56, 9 February 2025 (UTC)
:::And to be clear, yes, those are primary sources. -- [[User:Asilvering|asilvering]] ([[User talk:Asilvering|talk]]) 00:48, 10 February 2025 (UTC)
::::{{u|Wikipedious1}}, I happen to be the main author of [[List of members of the Black Panther Party]] and have read extensively about that organization and its leaders for over 55 years.  In my view, for Wikipedia's purposes, the best sources for the political views of Fred Hampton or any political figure of the past are not the person's own writings or speeches which are primary sources, but rather in the descriptions of their views published by experts after the fact. Hampton may well have expressed his opinions on hundreds of topics and it is perilous for a volunteer Wikipedia editor to pick and choose which of the things that he said deserve to be included in Wikipedia or especially how his views may have developed and evolved in the roughly 3-1/2 years that he was politically active. That is the job of biographers and historians instead, and the work that they publish are the secondary sources that Wikipedia editors are supposed to neutrally summarize. [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 07:31, 10 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::I agree with Cullen328, if you can find secondary sources, you should prefer those. [[User:Maproom|Maproom]] ([[User talk:Maproom|talk]]) 08:15, 10 February 2025 (UTC)

== how do you use pictures in user pages ==

if i cant, thats okay. [[User:T00Bad213|T00Bad213]] ([[User talk:T00Bad213|talk]]) 08:06, 10 February 2025 (UTC)
:Hello, {{u|T00Bad213}}. Yes, you can include images on your userpage. I have several on mine. However, any image you add must be either freely licensed in a proper way, or in the public domain. The images must be uploaded and hosted here on the English Wikipedia or on Wikimedia Commons. [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 08:11, 10 February 2025 (UTC)
::how do you add the images? do you add the link in the user page? [[User:T00Bad213|T00Bad213]] ([[User talk:T00Bad213|talk]]) 08:14, 10 February 2025 (UTC)
:::nevermind i now know [[User:T00Bad213|T00Bad213]] ([[User talk:T00Bad213|talk]]) 08:16, 10 February 2025 (UTC)

== Keyoxide identity proofs ==

I'm not sure if I should be asking this here, or on [[WP:VPT|VPT]] or on [[mw:]], but I recently raised an issue on [https://keyoxide.org/ Keyoxide]'s Codeberg page regarding adding identity proofs for Wikipedia/MediaWiki.

Basically what Keyoxide does, is it takes advantage of the fact you can add comments to GPG keys, and uses it basically to confirm your other online identities.

So I [https://codeberg.org/keyoxide/doipjs/issues/123 raised this issue] about adding proofs to Wikipedia/MediaWiki. Is this issue correct on a technical level? I'm not very confident in myself... <span style="border-radius:99q;padding:0 7q;background:#103;border:3q solid #FBF">[[User:QuickQuokka|<span style="color:#FBF">'''QuickQuokka'''</span>]]</span> <sup>[⁠[[User talk:QuickQuokka|talk]] • [[Special:Contribs/QuickQuokka|contribs]]]</sup> 22:42, 8 February 2025 (UTC)

:{{ping|QuickQuokka}} your idea seems to be similar to the already existing {{tl|Committed identity}}. [[User:MKFI|MKFI]] ([[User talk:MKFI|talk]]) 10:48, 9 February 2025 (UTC)
::{{Re|MKFI}} I think that's a bit different. What I'm trying to do is basically add a comment (notation) to my GPG key linking to my Wikipedia userpage, and for my userpage to contain the fingerprint of the key (or another identity proof that's accepted by Keyoxide), thereby proving my identity. I don't really know how to explain it well so here's [https://docs.keyoxide.org/wiki/keyoxide the official documentation], and here's [https://keyoxide.org/project@keyoxide.org an example profile]. <span style="border-radius:99q;padding:0 7q;background:#103;border:3q solid #FBF">[[User:QuickQuokka|<span style="color:#FBF">'''QuickQuokka'''</span>]]</span> <sup>[⁠[[User talk:QuickQuokka|talk]] • [[Special:Contribs/QuickQuokka|contribs]]]</sup> 10:59, 9 February 2025 (UTC)
:::You might find more knowledgeable eyes over at [[Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)]], or even at the idea lab in the same vicinity. [[User:Lectonar|Lectonar]] ([[User talk:Lectonar|talk]]) 08:22, 10 February 2025 (UTC)

== Editing for a COI Editor? ==

Sorry if the title is confusing. Basically, I received a message from someone asking if I could improve the neutrality of an article that they couldn't do themselves, as they have a Conflict of Interest with the subject. However, they also requested that I put specific things, basically just typing for them. Although I think I remember seeing somewhere that this is not allowed, I'd just like to confirm. Thank you! [[User:Ali Beary|<span style="background:#ADEBB3;border-radius:9999px;padding:1px 8px;color:green;">Ali Beary</span>]] <sub>[[user talk:Ali Beary|<span style="color:green">(talk!)</span>]]</sub> 12:50, 10 February 2025 (UTC)

:@[[User:Ali Beary|Ali Beary]] This relates to an edit request at [[Talk:Leena_Nair]]. As long as you are happy with the tone and referencing I don't see why you shouldn't make the requested edits, but you would need to take responsibility for the precise wording. The article as a whole doesn't appear overly promotionall to me. I don't think most of the proposed edits actually improve the tone, but number 4 about the awards would be a sensible edit. [[User:Shantavira|Shantavira]]|[[User talk:Shantavira|<sup>feed me</sup>]] 13:13, 10 February 2025 (UTC)

== How to cite a reference in info box ==

I was experimenting in my sandbox in info box but I failed to site a source so please help me to solve this issue of mine [[User:獅眠洞|獅眠洞]] ([[User talk:獅眠洞|talk]]) 13:39, 10 February 2025 (UTC)

:@[[User:獅眠洞|獅眠洞]] Welcome to the Teahouse. You seem to have used the syntax <code><nowiki><ref name="State Gov"/></nowiki></code>, for example, in the infobox. That's what we call a [[WP:NAMED|named reference]] but won't work unless you define the reference "State Gov" somewhere else on the page. See the named reference link and general help on referencing at [[Help:Referencing for beginners]]. [[User:Michael D. Turnbull|Mike Turnbull]] ([[User talk:Michael D. Turnbull|talk]]) 14:34, 10 February 2025 (UTC)

== Alt Account ==

I have an [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:ExclusiveEditor2&redirect=no alternative account], which I created once to request Wikibreak enforcer removal I installed on my commons.js, on [[WP:IAN]]. Do I need to get it verified/approved or something, because I was just informed to sign alt account's userpage with my main account on [[WP:IAN]], and use it once in a while. [[User:ExclusiveEditor|<span style="background:#FF9E61;color:Black;padding:3px;border-radius:9px;">𝓔xclusive<span style="background:black;color:gold;padding:2px;border-radius:9px;">𝓔ditor</span></span>]] [[User talk:ExclusiveEditor|<sub>Ping Me🔔</sub>]] 12:17, 10 February 2025 (UTC)

:@[[User:ExclusiveEditor|ExclusiveEditor]] Alternative accounts are fine, provided you follow the guidance at [[WP:VALIDALT]], which does include, in most cases, declaring that an account is an alternative of your main one with the template {{t|Altaccount}}. [[User:Michael D. Turnbull|Mike Turnbull]] ([[User talk:Michael D. Turnbull|talk]]) 14:38, 10 February 2025 (UTC)

== Dark mode logos in infoboxes? ==

<gallery>
Dragon Age (black).svg|Black logo
Dragon Age (white).svg|White logo
</gallery>

Hello!

I recently uploaded two Dragon Age logos to Commons, and added <ins>one of</ins> them in the infobox on [[Dragon Age]], because it's a more up-to-date logo.

However, once I enabled dark mode, I noticed that the dark logo doesn't contrast well. 

My question is whether its possible to have two different images for light and dark mode, and whether there is a template for this. 

If not, it could possibly be done by using [[WP:TemplateStyles|TemplateStyles]] and adding rules for the <code>.skin-theme-clientpref-night</code> class. <span style="border-radius:99q;padding:0 7q;background:#103;border:3q solid #FBF">[[User:QuickQuokka|<span style="color:#FBF">'''QuickQuokka'''</span>]]</span> <sup>[⁠[[User talk:QuickQuokka|talk]] • [[Special:Contribs/QuickQuokka|contribs]]]</sup> 09:35, 10 February 2025 (UTC)

:Made a template called {{tl|light dark}} based off of [[:fr:Modèle:Contenu clair sombre]]. Haven't tested it yet but will do so when the opportunity arrises. <span style="border-radius:99q;padding:0 7q;background:#103;border:3q solid #FBF">[[User:QuickQuokka|<span style="color:#FBF">'''QuickQuokka'''</span>]]</span> <sup>[⁠[[User talk:QuickQuokka|talk]] • [[Special:Contribs/QuickQuokka|contribs]]]</sup> 10:58, 10 February 2025 (UTC)
::Here's a test with just text for now: You're on {{light dark|light|dark}} mode! <span style="border-radius:99q;padding:0 7q;background:#103;border:3q solid #FBF">[[User:QuickQuokka|<span style="color:#FBF">'''QuickQuokka'''</span>]]</span> <sup>[⁠[[User talk:QuickQuokka|talk]] • [[Special:Contribs/QuickQuokka|contribs]]]</sup> 10:59, 10 February 2025 (UTC)
:::OK so maybe it doesn't really work well on text but it's not meant for that... It works well as a picture in an infobox though (see [[Special:Permalink/1274978786|my sandbox]]) <span style="border-radius:99q;padding:0 7q;background:#103;border:3q solid #FBF">[[User:QuickQuokka|<span style="color:#FBF">'''QuickQuokka'''</span>]]</span> <sup>[⁠[[User talk:QuickQuokka|talk]] • [[Special:Contribs/QuickQuokka|contribs]]]</sup> 11:15, 10 February 2025 (UTC)
::::@[[User:QuickQuokka|QuickQuokka]] We fix similar issues in chemistry infoboxes {{t|chembox}} by using the parameter <code><nowiki>|image_class = skin-invert-image</nowiki></code> but at present the infobox at [[Dragon Age]] doesn't support that parameter. [[User:Michael D. Turnbull|Mike Turnbull]] ([[User talk:Michael D. Turnbull|talk]]) 14:47, 10 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::{{Re|Michael D. Turnbull}} Huh, didn't know this exists! 
:::::But chemistry diagrams don't have precise color definitions, but logos can, so I think it may be better to use a template like the one I just made in this instance. <span style="border-radius:99q;padding:0 7q;background:#103;border:3q solid #FBF">[[User:QuickQuokka|<span style="color:#FBF">'''QuickQuokka'''</span>]]</span> <sup>[⁠[[User talk:QuickQuokka|talk]] • [[Special:Contribs/QuickQuokka|contribs]]]</sup> 15:08, 10 February 2025 (UTC)

== Creating a CSS page ==

In creating an article, I've gotten a message about a hidden maintenance message.  I've started to create a css page.

1. What is the difference between [[common.css]] and [[skin.css]]?

2. In creating a [[common.css]] page, I've inserted the appropriate text in the editing area, and need to save it.  Is "save" the same as "publish"? [[User:Johsebb|Johsebb]] ([[User talk:Johsebb|talk]]) 17:49, 6 February 2025 (UTC)
:Hello, {{u|Johsebb}}. Yes, in this context, "save" is the same as "publish". [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 18:15, 6 February 2025 (UTC)
::Thanks.  Two questions:
::1.  Having created User:Johsebb/common.js, how do I use it to reveal hidden messages?
::2.  Next to the header is "Cannot install" (and then "Manage user scripts", a link).  Does this indicate that the creation was unsuccessful?
::Of course, (2) would answer (1). [[User:Johsebb|Johsebb]] ([[User talk:Johsebb|talk]]) 19:23, 6 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Firstly, you have created [[User:Johsebb/common.css]] instead of [[User:Johsebb/common.js]].
:::* [[User:Johsebb/common.js]] is where you import scripts that help you complete tasks that would otherwise be tedious. You can read more about user scripts [[Wikipedia:User scripts|here]].
:::* [[Wikipedia:User scripts/List]] - Here you will find a list of scripts that can be installed in your [[User:Johsebb/common.js]] by clicking the install button.
:::* "how do I use it to reveal hidden messages?" - I am not really sure what you mean by revealing hidden messages. If you are referring to invisible comments inside articles, you can read more about them in [[Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Hidden text]].
:::* On User:Johsebb/common.js, ''Manage user scripts'' option makes it easy for you to see which scripts you are using. It also helps you uninstall, disable or enable scripts. Otherwise, you would have to manually edit the page to remove or disable scripts.
:::If you need further help regarding this, it is better to ask your questions at [[Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)]], where other editors who are more familiar with this area can help. [[User:Jeraxmoira|Jeraxmoira🐉]] ([[User talk:Jeraxmoira|talk]]) 20:34, 6 February 2025 (UTC)
:Also to be precise, it should be created at [[User:Johsebb/common.css]], not at [[common.css]]. Whatever you create/code in your User:Johsebb/common.css will apply only to you across all Wiki pages you visit. [[User:Jeraxmoira|Jeraxmoira🐉]] ([[User talk:Jeraxmoira|talk]]) 18:45, 6 February 2025 (UTC)
::Thanks. I have further questions, and will reply to Cullen328. [[User:Johsebb|Johsebb]] ([[User talk:Johsebb|talk]]) 19:18, 6 February 2025 (UTC)
:::{{ping|Johsebb}} See [[Wikipedia:Customisation]] for some general help. Don't create a page called skin.css. It doesn't do anything as a page. [[User:Johsebb/skin.css]] automatically redirects to the CSS page for your current skin selection at [[Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-rendering]]. CSS at [[User:Johsebb/common.css]] runs in all skins in addition to any skin-specific CSS page. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 20:56, 6 February 2025 (UTC)
::::I simply followed what I understood to be the instructions at [[Help:CS1_errors#Error_and_maintenance_messages]].  Perhaps that page needs to be updated or corrected.  I'm afraid this whole issue is rather mysterious to those of us who are not experts. [[User:Johsebb|Johsebb]] ([[User talk:Johsebb|talk]]) 15:04, 7 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::{{ping|Johsebb}} You haven't created a "skin.css" page so there is no problem. I merely said you shouldn't do it since it sounded like you were considering it and I have seen other users doing it after misunderstanding something. It wouldn't do harm but just be ignored. [[Help:CS1 errors#Error and maintenance messages]] says "[[Special:MyPage/skin.css|skin.css]]" which links to [[Special:MyPage/skin.css]] which should redirect to another page (probably [[User:Johsebb/vector-2022.css]]). You could add CSS rules there if you only want something to apply to your current skin setting at [[Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-rendering]] and not if you change skin later. But most CSS is placed in common.css which is used in all skins. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 16:00, 10 February 2025 (UTC)

== Edie Saccone Joly ==

I have a question. Ive come across the You Tube channel of Edie Saccone Joly's family. I enjoy it a lot which is besides the question but related to it. I just got curious and see she has a lot of fans and all, but there are only two reliable sources covering her, this {https://news.sky.com/story/i-dont-want-to-grow-facial-hair-transgender-girl-eight-has-sleepless-nights-about-growing-up-as-a-boy-12586845] this [https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-40858289.html] and this [https://news.sky.com/video/youtuber-jonathan-saccone-joly-opens-up-about-transgender-daughter-12586894], possibly this [https://littlethings.com/family-and-parenting/jonathan-joly] and possibly this [https://www.tyla.com/life/youtuber-jonathan-joly-slammed-inappropriate-video-20221024].

Given that my recent article about You Tuber Samantha Lux was sent to draft, and also my article about world title challenger boxer Antonio Amaya was also sent to draft (despite him clearly passing the wikipedia boxing notability bar as a WBA and WBC world title challenger) I want to know, are the sources above enough at least for a small stub about Edie? Thanks and God bless you! '''[[User:JeanetteMartin|Jeanette Spaced out Trans Woman Martin]]''' ([[User talk:JeanetteMartin|heere]]} 16:08 10 February, 2025 (UTC) 

:Hello, @[[User:JeanetteMartin|JeanetteMartin]]. I'm not answering your main question (I haven't looked at those sources), but I want to point out that "sources ... enough ... for a small stub" is incoherent. Either a subject is [[WP:notable|notable]], in which case a stub is acceptable, but why not write an article; or the sources are inadequate, in which case an article is not acceptable, whether a stub or more. [[User:ColinFine|ColinFine]] ([[User talk:ColinFine|talk]]) 16:27, 10 February 2025 (UTC)
:: Hi Colin! Well, she is only ten, so the little info about her life would be why. I think in this case its a bit of "too soon", so I'll wait until a third reliable source appears at least. Thanks!'''[[User:JeanetteMartin|Jeanette Delish Deb's friend Martin]]''' ([[User talk:JeanetteMartin|heere]]} 20:50 12 February, 2025 (UTC)
:@[[User:JeanetteMartin|JeanetteMartin]] Your two Sky sources are reliable but they, like the other less reliable ones, are heavily based on interviews with the subject family. Given they are trying to drive clicks to their channel and hence make money, I don't think this is enough to show [[WP:GNG|wikinotability]]. You would need some sources that are truly [[WP:INDEPENDENT|independent]], preferable meeting all of the [[WP:42|golden rules]]. [[User:Michael D. Turnbull|Mike Turnbull]] ([[User talk:Michael D. Turnbull|talk]]) 17:15, 10 February 2025 (UTC)
:: Thanks guys! And thanks for responding in a civilized manner, unlike some others I've run into recently! '''[[User:JeanetteMartin|Jeanette Pretty Girl Nelson Martin]]''' ([[User talk:JeanetteMartin|heere]]} 03:50 11 February, 2025 (UTC)

== Why did my edit get reverted but practically added back?? ==

Hello, my most recent edit on [[Bruno Mars]] has been reverted because of the new sources I added, despite being nothing wrong with the sources, the person who reverted my edits did not explain why he removed the other things I wrote and practically added back most of my edit but without some detailed parts I wrote. 

Can someone please tell me if my edit was correct and justified or should it stay reverted?  [[User:Rynoip|Rynoip]] ([[User talk:Rynoip|talk]]) 02:06, 10 February 2025 (UTC)

:If someone here would like to take up this invitation of yours, it would be better if they did so at [[Talk:Bruno Mars#How_about_a_little_trimming?]]. -- [[User:Hoary|Hoary]] ([[User talk:Hoary|talk]]) 04:47, 10 February 2025 (UTC)
::I did, however I didn’t get any reply despite me @ the person who reverted my edit. [[User:Rynoip|Rynoip]] ([[User talk:Rynoip|talk]]) 19:44, 10 February 2025 (UTC)

== Help me verify this source ==

This a popular local news [https://legitnews.gilect.net/ site] in Norfolk Virginia which claims to have high editorial standards and also has relationship with BBC News please read the [https://legitnews.gilect.net/about-us/ about page] help me verify the site as reliqble . [[User:Amandachapin|Amandachapin]] ([[User talk:Amandachapin|talk]]) 02:54, 11 February 2025 (UTC)

:{{ping|Amandachapin}} Where is the site's About us page? Or the page on their editorial policy? We're not going to accept a source based on its tagline; we need to see proof of that in the form of a staff listing (we're looking for a specific position) or a written-down policy regarding fact-checking and editorial practices. —[[User:Jéské Couriano|<i style="color: #1E90FF;">Jéské Couriano</i>]] [[User talk:Jéské Couriano|<span style="color: #228B22">v^&lowbar;^v</span>]] <sup><small>[[User:Jéské Couriano/AG|threads]] [[User:Jéské Couriano/Decode|critiques]]</small></sup> 02:56, 11 February 2025 (UTC)
::This https://legitnews.gilect.net/about-us/ [[User:Amandachapin|Amandachapin]] ([[User talk:Amandachapin|talk]]) 02:58, 11 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Per the about us, it looks like they're mirroring [[BBC News]] content? If that's the case, then you're better off citing the originals. —[[User:Jéské Couriano|<i style="color: #1E90FF;">Jéské Couriano</i>]] [[User talk:Jéské Couriano|<span style="color: #228B22">v^&lowbar;^v</span>]] <sup><small>[[User:Jéské Couriano/AG|threads]] [[User:Jéské Couriano/Decode|critiques]]</small></sup> 03:01, 11 February 2025 (UTC)
::::Please note not all the articles are bbc news articles but has news articles edited by thier news staffs so the site is partially reliable [[User:Amandachapin|Amandachapin]] ([[User talk:Amandachapin|talk]]) 03:10, 11 February 2025 (UTC)
:How would one say this is a "popular local news site?" It seems to have started publishing...Sunday. Basically all the articles look like they're directly taken from the BBC, and in a couple of the pieces, the BBC article has been just had a couple sentences copied and listed as "by Legit Report," listing BBC employees in the bylines. I'd be shocked if the site's claimed "strong relationship with BBC News," had even the tiniest grain of truth. [[User:CoffeeCrumbs|CoffeeCrumbs]] ([[User talk:CoffeeCrumbs|talk]]) 06:10, 11 February 2025 (UTC)

== How can u make a redirect ==

I’m making an article called the Siege of Jerusalem (1967) but I wanna add redirects,And no I'm Not talking about the “{{Redirect serveral|Siege of Jerusalem)” I want to add like a Redirect like “Redirect to:Siege of Jerusalem”
Here’s the name of the Article 
Draft:Siege of Jerusalem (1967) [[User:Noam Elyada|Noam Elyada]] ([[User talk:Noam Elyada|talk]]) 13:55, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
:Hi [[User:Noam Elyada|Noam Elyada]], welcome to the Teahouse. [[Draft:Siege of Jerusalem (1967)]] starts with "Draft:". That means it's in [[WP:DRAFT|draftspace]] which is not part of the encyclopedia. We don't make redirects or links to drafts in the encyclopedia. They are also excluded from searches by default. It's a deliberate decision to hide drafts from our readers. [[Draft:Siege of Jerusalem]] might point out your draft but I guess that's not what you want. If somebody happens to find their way to the non-existing article [[Siege of Jerusalem (1967)]] then we have a feature which automatically shows there is a draft by that name but that's all. It's not meant for readers but for editors who might be planning to create the article. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 15:00, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
::Ok but when I publish it how can make a redirect [[User:Noam Elyada|Noam Elyada]] ([[User talk:Noam Elyada|talk]]) 08:09, 1 February 2025 (UTC)
:::{{ping|Noam Elyada}} [[Wikipedia:Redirect]] has general help but I wouldn't spend time on it now. You can do that if it's actually published. The opening sentence alone ("the third war forced upon Israel") may turn off many reviewers. See [[Wikipedia:Neutral point of view]]. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 21:14, 1 February 2025 (UTC)
::::Thanks :] [[User:Noam Elyada|Noam Elyada]] ([[User talk:Noam Elyada|talk]]) 17:32, 4 February 2025 (UTC)

== on technical/uncontroversial/generally not very debatable cases of moving stuff without redirects ==

"stuff" in this case being "(version x)" redirects, like [[Olivia Harrison (version 2)|olivia harrison (version 2)]]

in cases like that one, where a redirect evidently exists as an unfinished or botched move and has little to no substantive history, would opening an [[Wikipedia:Rm|rm]] as an uncontroversial technical request be the better option, or should it be tagged for [[Wikipedia:G6|g6]] or something instead? '''[[user:consarn|<span style="color:#177013">consarn</span>]] <sub>[[user talk:consarn|<span style="color:#265918">(speak evil)</span>]] [[special:contributions/consarn|<span style="color:#265918">(see evil)</span>]]</sub>''' 17:43, 31 January 2025 (UTC)

:@[[User:Consarn|Consarn]] I don't entirely understand what you're asking. G6 would seem to apply to the redirect, but I don't see why you'd want to move the redirect page, via an RM or by other means. Are you referring to [[WP:R#SUPPRESS|moving a page without leaving a redirect]]? Thanks, [[User:Cremastra|Cremastra]] ([[User talk:Cremastra|talk]]) 20:11, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
::the latter seems to be the more common result, though it doesn't actually seem to matter a lot. for example, [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 December 19#Nine Years' War (version 2)|this redirect]] was deleted, while [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 November 26#Affordable Care Act (version 2)|this one]] was moved without a redirect
::though considering how inconsequential this is, i wouldn't be surprised if the answer to "which is the correct option?" was "yes" '''[[user:consarn|<span style="color:#177013">consarn</span>]] <sub>[[user talk:consarn|<span style="color:#265918">(speak evil)</span>]] [[special:contributions/consarn|<span style="color:#265918">(see evil)</span>]]</sub>''' 20:32, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
:::Personally, I'd ask the RMT regulars if they can complete the pageswap. In your first example, [[User:consarn|you]] can tell them the pageswap of [[Olivia Trinidad Arias]] and [[Olivia Harrison]] was [[Special:Diff/206112389|incomplete]], leaving behind page history and a confusing redirect at (version 2) instead of the Trinidad Arias title. [[User:Rotideypoc41352public|Rotideypoc41352public]] ([[User talk:Rotideypoc41352public|talk]]) 10:59, 1 February 2025 (UTC)
::::sounds like something to just take to page movers and/or admins' talk pages, then. thanks '''[[user:consarn|<span style="color:#177013">consarn</span>]] <sub>[[user talk:consarn|<span style="color:#265918">(speak evil)</span>]] [[special:contributions/consarn|<span style="color:#265918">(see evil)</span>]]</sub>''' 19:28, 2 February 2025 (UTC)

== Website of subject in infobox of BLP ==

I have seen the "official websites" of various subjects in the infobox, typically at the bottom, of various BLPs. I am currently engaged in a talk page discussion about Ross Ulbricht and what seems to evidently be "the official website" for the subject is [https://freeross.org/ freeross.org]. [https://reason.com/2025/01/20/why-trump-should-keep-his-promise-to-free-silk-road-founder-ross-ulbricht/ Images have been used] from the website by reliable sources before too, but there is no secondary source that I can find that clearly says in exact language that, "the official website of Ross Ulbricht is freeross.org." Is that really necessary to that degree of precise language? Does every BLP with their own personal website on it have to have a secondary source saying exactly "this XYZ.com is the official website of XYZ person."? That seems to be a high bar for just including a website on an infobox of a BLP when freeross.org appears to be the official website both by its own clear declaration, as well as its use by a reliable source as a source for a clear image as cited above. I only take this comment here and beyond [[Talk:Ross Ulbricht#Website for infobox|the talk page discussion happening here]] because I was not sure of the policy in this case and wanted some added uninvolved minds to take a look. [[User:Iljhgtn|Iljhgtn]] ([[User talk:Iljhgtn|talk]]) 19:44, 31 January 2025 (UTC)

:@[[User:Iljhgtn|Iljhgtn]]: The official [https://x.com/RealRossU Twitter] account of Ross Ulbricht, linked this website, that’s a signal that they are associated with this website. [[User:GrabUp|<span style="color:blue;">Grab</span><span style="color:red; font-size:larger;">Up</span>]] - [[User talk:GrabUp|<span style="color:green;">Talk</span>]] 19:50, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
:Hello from the talk discussion! There may not be any official policy governing this specific guideline so it may just be up to editor consensus. I would prefer it not be in the infobox, and I've left it in the External Links section as a compromise of sorts. [[Template: Infobox Person]] does say it should be an official website, and of course Wikipedia-wide guidelines like [[WP:BIO]] and [[WP:V]] still apply. But at this point it might just be editor preference. For what it's worth I'd prefer it not be there, and I've probably broken [[WP:1RR]] enforcing that, but if someone else wants to re-add it at this point, I won't put up a fight. [[User:guninvalid|guninvalid]] ([[User_Talk:guninvalid|talk]]) 20:27, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
::@[[User:Guninvalid|Guninvalid]]: We have guidelines about this. Read [[WP:ELOFFICIAL]]. [[User:GrabUp|<span style="color:blue;">Grab</span><span style="color:red; font-size:larger;">Up</span>]] - [[User talk:GrabUp|<span style="color:green;">Talk</span>]] 20:42, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
:::Yes, and inclusion as the first link in external links and the infobox is supported by policy, "{{tq|The official website '''should be included in infoboxes''' such as infobox company, '''and''' by convention '''are listed first''' in the '''External links''' section.}}", not mere preference, which if we were going by anyway, I would prefer that it is listed in the infobox as it had been as the stable version for well over a year or more prior to removal by editor Guninvalid. [[User:Iljhgtn|Iljhgtn]] ([[User talk:Iljhgtn|talk]]) 21:06, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
::::Hi @[[User:GrabUp|GrabUp]], there is ongoing discussion about this at the talk page of the subject matter. There does seem to be some confusion still with some editors calling for, "...a RS indicating that Ulbricht has full control of the website"...and that without this then supposedly, "...it should not be included in the infobox." 
::::I think this is setting a different standard for this particular BLP than we use for other BLPs and "official websites" to be included in the infobox. Am I mistaken here? [[User:Iljhgtn|Iljhgtn]] ([[User talk:Iljhgtn|talk]]) 01:06, 2 February 2025 (UTC)
:Sorry, I'm new here. What's a BLP? [[User:Sierkejd|Sierkejd]] ([[User talk:Sierkejd|talk]]) 18:00, 9 February 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|Sierkejd}} [[WP:BLP|Biography of a living person]], which fall under special rules and stricter sourcing requirements. —[[User:Jéské Couriano|<i style="color: #1E90FF;">Jéské Couriano</i>]] [[User talk:Jéské Couriano|<span style="color: #228B22">v^&lowbar;^v</span>]] <sup><small>[[User:Jéské Couriano/AG|threads]] [[User:Jéské Couriano/Decode|critiques]]</small></sup> 18:04, 9 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Thank you. [[User:Sierkejd|Sierkejd]] ([[User talk:Sierkejd|talk]]) 21:39, 9 February 2025 (UTC)

== Moving Draft articles? ==

Hello, I'm a new wikipedia user. I'm currently working on a draft for a rowing club. The article is in the drafts section because I started it before I was an autoconfirmed user, but now I am. My problem is I uploaded the clubs emblem, and I was informed by a patroller that non-free images not used on published articles are on the list for speedy deletion and will be purged after seven days.

My question is if I am allowed to move my article from the draft space to the main space (once it's actually ready, which will hopefully be soon), because I'm autoconfirmed now, and am able to start an article without having to go through the drafting process? Sorry if what I'm saying sounds silly I'm still a little confused on the terminology and I'm still learning, feel free to correct me. [[User:Pixzzl|Pixzzl]] ([[User talk:Pixzzl|talk]]) 20:41, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
:{{u|Pixzzl}}, it depends if you have a [[WP:COI|conflict of interest]] with the organization. If you are, for example, affiliated with it, you should instead use [[WP:AFC|articles for creation]] instead of moving it to mainspace yourself, so that an editor without a COI can review it. You of course always ''can'' use that process, and I highly recommend it for new editors even if they have no COI&mdash;it will still get a review from a substantially more experienced editor, and if the article has problems, you'll just get advice rather than seeing it up for deletion. That said, the article contains a lot of inappropriate and rather promotional material, and that's probably due to a fundamental problem&mdash;it relies mostly on sources from the organization itself. An article should primarily focus on what [[WP:RS|reliable]] and [[WP:IS|independent]] sources say a subject, not what they say about themself. If there is not a substantial quantity of such reference material about a subject available at all, the subject is not [[WP:N|notable]] and it would not be appropriate for there to be an article about it. Currently, the sources cited in the article do not show notability. [[User:Seraphimblade|Seraphimblade]] <small><sup>[[User talk:Seraphimblade|Talk to me]]</sup></small> 21:02, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
::I was on the border as to whether or not to declare COI in the talk-page because I am from the same township, however I'm into rowing independent of the club. I will declare one now.
::Is the promotional material you reference the blob of italicized text in the founding section? If so, that's just there for citation. I also have a some sources I haven't added but have used, and I've stored the links in a comment. Those sources are my proof of notability, it's a couple articles on the club that I've found. I also believe the club is notable enough to be moved to the mainspace as last spring, the club had their men's varsity eight place 8th place in the USRowing Youth Nationals. Alongside that they had a women's U16 varsity boat place 12th. The clubs they raced against all contain wikipedia pages, like [[Oakland Strokes]] & [[Gillin Boat Club|Gillin Boat Club/St. Joes Prep]].
::Thank you so much for your help! [[User:Pixzzl|Pixzzl]] ([[User talk:Pixzzl|talk]]) 21:14, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
:::Yes, those are certainly better. Try to work those into the article (editors won't really look for sources in hidden comments; I know I certainly didn't think of that!), and cite those, sticking mainly to what they said. Definitely that long pull quote needs removed, everything except the initial mention of the organization's name should have '''bolding''' removed, and probably the motto being in both the infobox and article is a bit much. Unless any independent sources have commented on the importance of their board and coaches, then that, too, is probably excess detail and a bit too reminiscent of the organization's own site. [[User:Seraphimblade|Seraphimblade]] <small><sup>[[User talk:Seraphimblade|Talk to me]]</sup></small> 21:43, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
::::I'll remove the motto from the article and keep it in the infobox because it's a part of the standard [[Template:Infobox rowing club]]. I was told that I should just cut the lists of coaches and board members, as it will require frequent updates, so I'll just have it be a description of the positions of the board and the head coach(es). I'm really grateful for all your help! [[User:Pixzzl|Pixzzl]] ([[User talk:Pixzzl|talk]]) 13:41, 3 February 2025 (UTC)
:Oh, as to the image&mdash;don't sweat it if that gets deleted or get in a rush because of it. If the article goes into mainspace eventually, it can just be reuploaded at that point. [[User:Seraphimblade|Seraphimblade]] <small><sup>[[User talk:Seraphimblade|Talk to me]]</sup></small> 21:05, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
::Ah, alright. This is good to know. I will keep the article in the draft space for now as I work on writing it. [[User:Pixzzl|Pixzzl]] ([[User talk:Pixzzl|talk]]) 21:15, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
:::I recommend deleting the list of coaches and the table of board members. Otherwise that information would need to be updated freqently. Readers of the article can be directed to the club's website instead, via an External link. [[User:David notMD|David notMD]] ([[User talk:David notMD|talk]]) 09:13, 1 February 2025 (UTC)
::::Thank you for the suggestion. I'll probably remove the lists and just have the board members section without the names, and rewrite the coaches section to have the girls and boys head coach only, similar to [[Oakland Strokes]] page. [[User:Pixzzl|Pixzzl]] ([[User talk:Pixzzl|talk]]) 13:38, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

== Not allowed to talk on Talk pages ==

I put a comment on a talk page that got
[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3ASucralose&diff=1271222492&oldid=1271221084 erased]
and I got [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Jidanni&diff=prev&oldid=1271222672 warned]
just like Talk pages were Article pages. [[User:Jidanni|Jidanni]] ([[User talk:Jidanni|talk]]) 09:19, 1 February 2025 (UTC)

:Talk pages are for discussion related to changing the article.  Encouraging people to use Google to find out information about the topic isn't related to changing the article, unless it is in some way that isn't clear. [[User:331dot|331dot]] ([[User talk:331dot|talk]]) 09:23, 1 February 2025 (UTC)
::{{u|Jidanni}}, the purpose of an article talk page is to discuss specific actionable proposals to improve the article. It is not to spout off about a Google search you conducted without even mentioning any reliable sources that you discovered that could actually be used to improve the article in the context of suggesting specific changes. [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 09:29, 1 February 2025 (UTC)
:{{u|Jidanni}}, even if your objective is to alert people to the dangers of sucralose (not what a talk page is for), you can do better than that. Give a link to an article in a reputable publication. The findings of a Google search can depend on the reader's search history, the location of their IP address, and maybe other things. [[User:Maproom|Maproom]] ([[User talk:Maproom|talk]]) 23:35, 1 February 2025 (UTC)
::All I know is I'll take [[Sucralose#Possible health effects]] with a grain of sucralose, sure beats the [[health effects of salt]]. I'll stick to Wikipedia for my sources. [[User:Jidanni|Jidanni]] ([[User talk:Jidanni|talk]]) 00:07, 2 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Late to this discussion, but IMO the feedback above may be a bit harsh! What I'd recommend is instead of posting to Google it as you did, you take a few of the links you found on Google and paste them in the talk page, to see if they might be relevant or if more reliable sources could be used to expand the article. I do think the topic of health effects of Sucralose looks like something that we could use a bit more in-depth coverage of here. [[User:Caleb Stanford|Caleb Stanford]] ([[User talk:Caleb Stanford|talk]]) 06:27, 11 February 2025 (UTC)

== Help getting a page unlocked.  ==

Last year I created a page for Serenity Cox a well known Canadian performer. After 6 months it was flagged for her not being notable enough, and after a debate (with many agreeing she was) it was deleted. 9 months later there has been much more press coverage and award wins and I would love to revamp a page about her. Unfortunately it is currently locked and require an administrator to unlock it. Can anyone help me out on how to navigate getting this unlocked? Here is a recent article dedicated to her for a noteworthy source: https://avn.com/news/video/night-shift-real-life-hotwife-serenity-cox-goes-pro-with-vmg-178673 [[User:SanDiegoDan|SanDiegoDan]] ([[User talk:SanDiegoDan|talk]]) 16:56, 1 February 2025 (UTC)

:{{re|SanDiegoDan}} You can create it in Draftspace, then submit for review. You'll need [[WP:AW]]. If the article is accepted at AfC, then someone, normally the reviewer, will ask for the [[WP:SALT]] to be removed. - [[User:Rich Smith|<kbd style="color: Red;">Rich</kbd>]]<sup>[[User talk:Rich Smith|T]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/Rich Smith|C]]&#124;[[Special:EmailUser/Rich Smith|E-Mail]]</sup> 17:27, 1 February 2025 (UTC)
:@[[User:SanDiegoDan|SanDiegoDan]] I think you can use [[WP:DELREV|deletion review]] for this. in [[WP:DRVPURPOSE]], it states "Deletion review may be used (...) if significant new information has come to light since a deletion that would justify recreating the deleted page;" which this seems to fall under. I'd suggest creating a draft that meets Wikipedia's policies, ready to move, so an administrator can reasonably [[WP:SALT|unsalt]] the page and move the draft into article space. —[[User: Sparkle &#38; Fade|''Sparkle and Fade'']] ([[User_talk:Sparkle &#38; Fade|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Sparkle &#38; Fade|contributions]]) 20:17, 1 February 2025 (UTC)

== Job or Fun or Help or Desire or Interested  ==

are you guys here on Wikipedia for a Job or just fun, or Help with building encyclopedia, or Desire of editing, or interested on Wikipedia??. just a question 👐. [[User:KPopMachine|KPopMachine]] ([[User talk:KPopMachine|talk]]) 20:21, 1 February 2025 (UTC)

:Hello @[[User:KPopMachine|KPopMachine]].  It can Depends on the person, they maybe can do this for fun or just to volunteer.              [[User:Nedia020415|Ned1a]] [[User talk:Nedia020415|Wanna talk?]] [[Special:Contributions/Nedia020415|Stalk my edits]] 21:56, 1 February 2025 (UTC)

:[[User:KPopMachine|KPopMachine]], please see [[Wikipedia community#Motivation]]. -- [[User:Hoary|Hoary]] ([[User talk:Hoary|talk]]) 22:20, 1 February 2025 (UTC)

== Why is Biographies of a Living Person important? ==

I get its a living person but why do BLPs have such strict guidelines and requirements for NPOV, no original research, and verifiability? I really don't understand the need that "wikipedia has to get every thing about a living person right" mindset. [[User:SimpleSubCubicGraph|SimpleSubCubicGraph]] ([[User talk:SimpleSubCubicGraph|talk]]) 21:18, 1 February 2025 (UTC)

:Because living people can be harmed by false information being spread about them on one of the most visited sites on the internet. [[User:MrOllie|MrOllie]] ([[User talk:MrOllie|talk]]) 21:35, 1 February 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|SimpleSubCubicGraph}} See [[Wikipedia Seigenthaler biography incident]] for the origin of [[Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons]]. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 21:46, 1 February 2025 (UTC)

:[[User:SimpleSubCubicGraph|SimpleSubCubicGraph]], at first glance your question looks innocent; but coming on top of [[User_talk:SimpleSubCubicGraph#January_2025|this thread]] and [[User_talk:SimpleSubCubicGraph#Some_advice|this one]], your participation threatens to be a net drain on other editors' time. If you still don't understand BLP policy or don't agree with it, please avoid editing such articles, and instead work to improve some of the very many articles here that are not about living people. -- [[User:Hoary|Hoary]] ([[User talk:Hoary|talk]]) 22:16, 1 February 2025 (UTC)
::@[[User:Hoary|Hoary]] I am not trying to drain anyones time, a huge portion of WP articles are contentious topics, BLPs, and pages that require ECP. I legitimately, inside my brain do not understand why BLP is so strict. I want to learn how and why Wikipedia policies are what they are today so I can make good edits. [[User:SimpleSubCubicGraph|SimpleSubCubicGraph]] ([[User talk:SimpleSubCubicGraph|talk]]) 22:53, 1 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Simple solution, [[User:SimpleSubCubicGraph|SimpleSubCubicGraph]]: Edit articles that aren't BLPs. -- [[User:Hoary|Hoary]] ([[User talk:Hoary|talk]]) 23:05, 1 February 2025 (UTC)
:{{u|SimpleSubCubicGraph}}, {{u|MrOllie}}'s reply above is accurate, but not the full story. Living persons can sue Wikipedia if we make defamatory claims without substantial evidence. [[User:Maproom|Maproom]] ([[User talk:Maproom|talk]]) 23:42, 1 February 2025 (UTC)
::{{u|SimpleSubCubicGraph}}, the premise of your question is misleading. Please be aware that [[WP:V|Verifiability]] and [[WP:OR|No original research]] and the [[WP:NPOV|Neutral point of view]] are our three core content policies and they apply to all 6,948,107 articles on Wikipedia. Those policies are enforced more rapidly and stringently on biographies of living people but they apply ''everywhere''. [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 00:41, 2 February 2025 (UTC)
:::BLPs are often tainted by information from the subjects themselves - including interviews and press releases - also from paid agents and unpaid associates and celebrity fans. Such bias can also include removing content seen as negative to their reputations (or adding negative content that is false). Hence, strict standards. Medical/health articles are also held to a strict standard (see [[WP:MEDRS]]) because misinformation can potentially harm people. [[User:David notMD|David notMD]] ([[User talk:David notMD|talk]]) 12:39, 2 February 2025 (UTC)

== First time dealing with a COI edit request ==
{{Resolved}}
I've just answered an edit request made by an editor with a [[WP:conflict of interest|conflict of interest]] and I'm not confident that I have complied with the [[WP:COIRESPONSE]] guideline, particularly: "Make sure nothing important is missing. Responding editors should do their own search for independent sources. Do not rely on the sources offered by the paid editor." I have searched for reliable sources on the topic other than the ones provided by the COI editor, and I am unable to fully assess the reliability of the sources. I am also unsure of the reliability of the sources provided by the editor because of various issues. If someone can assist me with assessing my response to the edit request, it would be highly appreciated. —[[User: Sparkle &#38; Fade|''Sparkle and Fade'']] ([[User_talk:Sparkle &#38; Fade|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Sparkle &#38; Fade|contributions]]) 22:18, 1 February 2025 (UTC)
:{{courtesy link|Talk:Trendyol#History}} <span style="border-radius:3em;padding:5px;background:#483D8B;">‍'''[[User:Relativity|<span style="color:white">Rela</span>]]'''[[User talk:Relativity|<span style="color:white">tivity ⚡️</span>]]</span> 22:28, 1 February 2025 (UTC)
:@[[User:Sparkle & Fade|Sparkle & Fade]], looking at the edit request that you answered, it looks like you did due diligence at checking the information and gave a reasonable response to the request. I think you did a good job there. Anytime that you're uncomfortable with an edit request or your ability to evaluate the sources, just leave it for someone else to do. [[User:Schazjmd|<span style="color:#066293;">'''Schazjmd'''</span>]]&nbsp;[[User talk:Schazjmd|<span style="color:#738276;">''(talk)''</span>]] 22:34, 1 February 2025 (UTC)

== Neutrality Concerns in the Greek Genocides Article   ==

Hello everyone,

The Greek Genocide article faces a neutrality concern from me. The existing version of this article displays a Greek nationalist viewpoint together with a Western media tradition that favors the autochthonous Greek nationalism instead of following Wikipedia's fundamental neutrality mandate. These are the article’s specific problems supported by evidence:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_genocide

Attribution and Terminology:
The article currently supports Turkish nationalist figures as the direct perpetrators behind the genocide through its comparison of the Turkish Nationalist Government to a “Kemalist” regime which implies a system of command from one central authority. Research conducted by Stanford J. Shaw in his book History of the Ottoman Empire and Modern Turkey and Edward Erickson in his studies demonstrates that state-directed involvement in violence did not occur during this period as most operations emerged from local irregular militias and warlords. Using Kemalist as an official label to describe the governing body distorts Turkey's democratic development by presenting it as a totalitarian dictatorship although the country was forming its government in the aftermath of Ottoman decline.

Selective Sourcing:
The present article heavily relies on supportive sources for its one-sided viewpoint while insufficiently showing neutral perspectives. The existing narrative of Turkish guilt from Western and Greek sources finds documented evidence in British archives alongside studies from the International Association of Genocide Scholars that present diversified information about communal warfare during that chaotic period.

Violation of Neutrality:
Wikipedia's NPOV policy collides with the biased selection of sources and the application of emotional language which results in historical factual misrepresentation. For a neutral article to meet its standards the present scholarly disputes about responsibility should be noted and major perspectives must receive proportional representation based on their scholarly prominence.

This article's neutrality should be examined because I want to work on content revision with others. All statements require proper backing from balanced reliable sources together with the use of strict language neutrality. [[User:Ludusian|Ludusian]] ([[User talk:Ludusian|talk]]) 23:18, 1 February 2025 (UTC)
:Hello, {{u|Ludusian}}. The proper place to discuss this matter is [[Talk:Greek genocide]] where editors with interest and expertise in the topic can respond. The Teahouse is not the place to iron out content disputes but rather a place to ask and answer questions about editing Wikipedia, and about its policies and guidelines. [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 00:54, 2 February 2025 (UTC)
::Okay thank you I will take the discussion to proper place [[User:Ludusian|Ludusian]] ([[User talk:Ludusian|talk]]) 19:13, 2 February 2025 (UTC)

== Doubt about the relevance of interlinks to non-English-speaking Wikipedias ==

Greetings ! I have doubts about putting interlinks to Wikipedias others than '''"Wikipedia in English"''' concerning articles being lists of first names. <br />

I am thinking for example of the "[[List of Irish-language given names]]". <br />
I would like to do that but I don't know if it's an acceptable behavior. We are talking about articles being lists. [[User:Anatole-berthe|Anatole-berthe]] ([[User talk:Anatole-berthe|talk]]) 05:39, 2 February 2025 (UTC)

:Doubt about the relevance ''to what'' of such interlinks, [[User:Anatole-berthe|Anatole-berthe]]? And, if we put Breton aside for a moment, why not link (via Wikidata, of course) from [[List of Irish-language given names]] to [[:fr:Liste de prénoms irlandais]]? (How might doing so not be acceptable behavior?) -- [[User:Hoary|Hoary]] ([[User talk:Hoary|talk]]) 06:25, 2 February 2025 (UTC)
::I was talking about putting interlinks to Wikipedia in others languages than English for the '''"names"''' themselves in an article that is a '''"list of names"'''. <br /> <br />
::Fictious example : There are an article about the given name '''"Séadna"''' in "[[Irish language|Irish]]" but not in English. 
::Can I add an interlink to the entry about this name in the article "[[List of Irish-language given names]]" ? <br /> <br />
::This example is fictious because there are not an article about this given name in any language version of Wikipedia even if there are an entry on [[d:Q53831503|Wikidata]]. [[User:Anatole-berthe|Anatole-berthe]] ([[User talk:Anatole-berthe|talk]]) 20:14, 3 February 2025 (UTC)
:::If I understand correctly what you're asking, you may find the answer at [[Help:Interlanguage links]]. [[User:Deb|Deb]] ([[User talk:Deb|talk]]) 09:26, 5 February 2025 (UTC)

== Is my article well-structured? ==

Hello!

I am currently writing a [[draft:Shamate|draft about ''Shamate'']], and I would like to know if you think the article is good structure-wise because I'm still not very confident about my abilities. Obviously there's no content yet, but fret not, I will soon start actually adding content to the article, because I first edit it off-wiki.

Thanks, <span style="border-radius:99q;padding:0 7q;background:#103;border:3q solid #FBF">[[User:QuickQuokka|<span style="color:#FBF">'''QuickQuokka'''</span>]]</span> <sup>[⁠[[User talk:QuickQuokka|talk]] • [[Special:Contribs/QuickQuokka|contribs]]]</sup> 08:56, 2 February 2025 (UTC)
:P.S. by off-wiki I mean I edit it on a markdown file on my computer. <span style="border-radius:99q;padding:0 7q;background:#103;border:3q solid #FBF">[[User:QuickQuokka|<span style="color:#FBF">'''QuickQuokka'''</span>]]</span> <sup>[⁠[[User talk:QuickQuokka|talk]] • [[Special:Contribs/QuickQuokka|contribs]]]</sup> 09:01, 2 February 2025 (UTC)
:{{u|QuickQuokka}}, it's hard to judge the structure when there's almost no content. Also, the lead should summarise the content - and therefore be written once the body of the article is almost complete. [[User:Maproom|Maproom]] ([[User talk:Maproom|talk]]) 09:08, 2 February 2025 (UTC)

== New disambiguation issue ==

Would someone please advise on how to apply disambiguation edits (or page) for my new article on [[Warren Brandt (artist)|Warren Brandt]] the artist vs [[Warren W. Brandt]] the university president. Thank you! [[User:Remando|Remando]] ([[User talk:Remando|talk]]) [[User:Remando|Remando]] ([[User talk:Remando|talk]]) 09:37, 2 February 2025 (UTC)
PS I see I also broke that article's Categories :( [[User:Remando|Remando]] ([[User talk:Remando|talk]])
:Hello, {{u|Remando}}. I believe that the artist is probably the primary topic and that [[WP:DISAMBIGUATION |disambiguation]] can by handled by [[WP:HATNOTE|hatnotes]]. [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 10:26, 2 February 2025 (UTC)
::Hatnotes are amazing! 🤯 Thank you, @[[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]]<nowiki>! ~~</nowiki> [[User:Remando|Remando]] ([[User talk:Remando|talk]]) 16:44, 2 February 2025 (UTC)
:One more question, if I may? When I type "Warren Brandt" into the main Search Wikipedia bar, only the first article, Warren W. Brandt previews. Is there another adjustment I can make so that both articles preview? [[User:Remando|Remando]] ([[User talk:Remando|talk]])
::{{u|Remando}}, that search term is controlled by a [[WP:REDIRECT|redirect page]]. Since you and I agree that the artist is the primary topic, I just edited the redirect page so that it now leads to the artist not the university president. If another editor disagrees, it can be discussed then. Another option is to remove the (artist) disambiguator and have the biography of the artist just be titled "Warren Brandt", and let the hat note help readers looking for the university president. [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 19:13, 2 February 2025 (UTC)
::<nowiki>Bless you! I'm happy to leave as you've edited it -- OR remove the (artist) disambiguator -- whichever you think is appropriate. ~~~</nowiki> [[User:Remando|Remando]] ([[User talk:Remando|talk]]) 19:29, 2 February 2025 (UTC)
:::<nowiki>Note: It's a crazy coincidence but both Warren Brandts worked at SIU Carbondale. No family relation that I am aware of, but the artist was there as art dept chairman from '59-'61 while the other was president there from '74 to '79. This coincidence does not define them, but I suspect it confuses some who are researching SIU Carbondale history. I have wished the artist had a middle name as well, to help differentiate, but in my research on him, he does not have one. ~~~</nowiki> [[User:Remando|Remando]] ([[User talk:Remando|talk]]) 19:35, 2 February 2025 (UTC)

== Question about names in citations ==
{{Moved discussion to|Wikipedia talk:WikiProject China#Question about names in citations| 2=<span style="border-radius:99q;padding:0 7q;background:#103;border:3q solid #FBF">[[User:QuickQuokka|<span style="color:#FBF">'''QuickQuokka'''</span>]]</span> <sup>[⁠[[User talk:QuickQuokka|talk]] • [[Special:Contribs/QuickQuokka|contribs]]]</sup> 12:18, 2 February 2025 (UTC)}}

Hello!

I'm trying to cite [https://www.sixthtone.com/news/1007272 this article] by Veronica Wang Jingyi, but I don't know what to put for the <code>|last=</code> and <code>|first=</code> parameter, because I think that "Wang" is the surname of the author.

So do I format it like <code>|last= Wang |first= Veronica Jingyi</code> like so:

{{refbegin}}
{{cite magazine |last=Wang |first=Veronica Jingyi |date=2016-07-28 |title=How China's White-Collar Workers Are Co-Opting Blue-Collar Punk |url=https://www.sixthtone.com/news/1007272 |magazine=[[Sixth Tone]] |location= |publisher= |access-date=2025-02-02}}
{{refend}}

or do I simply use the <code>|author=</code> parameter like so:

{{refbegin}}
{{cite magazine |author=Veronica Wang Jingyi |date=2016-07-28 |title=How China's White-Collar Workers Are Co-Opting Blue-Collar Punk |url=https://www.sixthtone.com/news/1007272 |magazine=[[Sixth Tone]] |location= |publisher= |access-date=2025-02-02}}
{{refend}}

Thanks, and sorry, because I am really not accustomed to Chinese naming conventions... <span style="border-radius:99q;padding:0 7q;background:#103;border:3q solid #FBF">[[User:QuickQuokka|<span style="color:#FBF">'''QuickQuokka'''</span>]]</span> <sup>[⁠[[User talk:QuickQuokka|talk]] • [[Special:Contribs/QuickQuokka|contribs]]]</sup> 11:43, 2 February 2025 (UTC)
:Hi {{u|QuickQuokka}}. You might want to try asking about this at [[:Wikipedia talk:WikiProject China]] because most likely it's something that someone else has brought up before. Perhaps even check that talk page's archive because there could be something there about it. There's also [[:Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Chinese)]] which provides some guidance that might be helpful. -- [[User:Marchjuly|Marchjuly]] ([[User talk:Marchjuly|talk]]) 12:15, 2 February 2025 (UTC)

== How many citations is too many? ==

Hello!

I am currently writing an article about Shamate, and this is what I have for the lede section:

<blockquote>
'''''Shamate'''''{{efn|{{zh|s=杀马特|t=殺馬特|p=Shāmǎtè}}. Transliteration of the English word [[wikt:smart|smart]].<ref name="mondediplo">{{cite news |last=Dalléas |first=Frédéric |date=2022-02-01 |title=The 'left behind' of the Chinese miracle: When China’s rural young found their style |url=https://mondediplo.com/2022/02/09shamate |work=[[Le Monde diplomatique]] |location= |publisher= |access-date=2025-02-02|translator-last1=Miller |translator-first1=George|url-access=subscription}}</ref><ref name="foreign-policy">{{cite magazine |last=Lu |first=Rachel |date=2013-12-02 |title=Vanity Fail |url=https://foreignpolicy.com/2013/12/02/vanity-fail/ |magazine=[[Foreign Policy]] |location= |publisher= |access-date=2025-02-02}}</ref><ref name="guernica">{{cite magazine |last1=Zhang |first1=Henry |last2=Chang |first2=Luyao |date=2021-06-01 |title=Luo Fuxing: 'The Last of the Shamate' |url=https://www.guernicamag.com/luo-fuxing-the-last-of-the-shamate/ |magazine=[[Guernica (magazine)|Guernica]] |location= |publisher= |access-date=2025-02-02}}</ref><ref name="jiemian">{{cite news |last1=Zhai |first1=Xingli |last2=Liang |first2=Yingxin |date=2020-11-24 |title=More than just a hairstyle: will the shamate kids ever grow up? |url=https://en.jiemian.com/article/5311700.html |work=[[Jiemian News]] |location= |publisher= |access-date=2025-02-02}}</ref><ref name="sixth-tone-1">{{cite magazine |last=Teng |first=Wei |date=2016-07-28 |title=How 'Shamate' Devolved From Urban to Underclass Fashion |url=https://www.sixthtone.com/news/1112 |magazine=[[Sixth Tone]] |location= |publisher= |access-date=2025-02-02}}</ref><ref name="sixth-tone-2">{{cite magazine |last=Jubb |first=Nathan |date=2016-07-28 |title=Death of a Subculture: The Life of a Former ‘Shamate’ |url=https://www.sixthtone.com/news/1133 |magazine=[[Sixth Tone]] |location= |publisher= |access-date=2025-02-02}}</ref><ref name="sixth-tone-3">{{cite magazine |last=Wang |first=Lianzhang |date=2018-06-26 |title='Father of "Shamate{{" '}} Looks Back at Now-Dead Subculture |url=https://www.sixthtone.com/news/1002503 |magazine=[[Sixth Tone]] |location= |publisher= |access-date=2025-02-02}}</ref><ref name="sixth-tone-4"><!-- I do not know how to format the name-->{{cite magazine |author=Veronica Wang Jingyi |date=2016-07-28 |title=How 'Shamate' Devolved From Urban to Underclass Fashion |url=https://www.sixthtone.com/news/1112 |magazine=[[Sixth Tone]] |location= |publisher= |access-date=2025-02-02}}</ref><ref name="radii-1">{{cite magazine |last=Meng |first=Siyuan |date=2020-12-24 |title=Shunned, Shattered, Shamate: Telling the Story of China's Most Hated Subculture |url=https://radii.co/article/shamate-documentary |magazine=Radii |location= |publisher= |access-date=2025-02-02}}</ref><ref name="twoc-1">{{cite magazine |last=Zhang |first=Phoebe |date=2017-12-17 |title=A Family Affair |url=https://www.theworldofchinese.com/2017/12/a-family-affair/ |magazine=[[The World of Chinese]] |year=2017 |issue=6, ''Cloud Country'' |page=6 |issn=1673-7660 |location= |publisher=China International Book Trading Corporation |access-date=2025-02-02}}</ref><ref name="trebuchet">{{cite magazine |author=SWP |date=2014-04-29 |title=Shamate: China's Secret Family |url=https://www.trebuchet-magazine.com/shamate-chinas-secret-family/ |magazine=Trebuchet |location= |publisher= |access-date=2025-02-02}}</ref><ref name="twoc-3">{{cite magazine |last=Liu |first=Jue |date=2014-03-01 |title=Shamate Alecks |url=https://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/woc/woc/2014/00000004/00000002/art00011 |url-access=subscription |magazine=[[The World of Chinese]] |volume=4 |issue=2 |page=72&ndash;74 |issn=1673-7660 |location= |publisher=The World of Chinese Co., Ltd. |access-date=2025-02-02}}</ref>}} or '''SMART''' is a [[youth subculture]] and [[fashion]] movement originating from factory workers in 2000s [[South China]]. It is characterized by eccentric makeup, hairstyles and clothing.
</blockquote>

Is 12 back-to-back citations too many? Is there any guideline against having so many citations next to each other? <span style="border-radius:99q;padding:0 7q;background:#103;border:3q solid #FBF">[[User:QuickQuokka|<span style="color:#FBF">'''QuickQuokka'''</span>]]</span> <sup>[⁠[[User talk:QuickQuokka|talk]] • [[Special:Contribs/QuickQuokka|contribs]]]</sup> 12:49, 2 February 2025 (UTC)
:Yes, 12 is too many! Quality over quantity. Use just a few in the Lead. The others can be used in the body of the article if those provide different views or detailed information on this youth subculture. [[User:David notMD|David notMD]] ([[User talk:David notMD|talk]]) 12:54, 2 February 2025 (UTC)
::The purpose of a citation is usually  to provide verification for one or more claims in the preceding sentence or paragaph: nothing else. (I've put "usually" in for caution: I can't think of any exceptions). 
::It follows that putting more than one citation at the end of a passage is justified only when the passage contains more than one claim, and the claims are not all verifiable in a single source. [[User:ColinFine|ColinFine]] ([[User talk:ColinFine|talk]]) 19:36, 2 February 2025 (UTC)

:@[[User:QuickQuokka|QuickQuokka]] Yes there is, [[WP:OVERCITE]]. [[User:CommissarDoggo|<b style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#fc1008">Commissar</b><b style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#0363ff">Doggo</b>]]''[[User talk:CommissarDoggo|<sup style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#0363ff">Talk?</sup>]]'' 12:53, 2 February 2025 (UTC)

{{notelist-talk}}
{{reflist-talk}}

== Task Force Creation ==

How would I go about creating a task force? I had the idea for a one revolving around [[Stephen King]] under WikiProject Horror, but I'm not sure how to start. Help? [[User:LeGoldenBoots|LeGoldenBoots]] ([[User talk:LeGoldenBoots|<span style="color:#FF1493">talk</span>]]) 18:25, 2 February 2025 (UTC)

:@[[User:LeGoldenBoots|LeGoldenBoots]] I assume that the editors who might be interested in joining such a task force will already be watching the talk pages of WikiProject Horror, so that's where I suggest you post your idea, giving enough detail about what the TF would actually do. Then you can subsequently begin the work and see if anyone joins in. [[User:Michael D. Turnbull|Mike Turnbull]] ([[User talk:Michael D. Turnbull|talk]]) 11:28, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

== Alt accounts ==

So I've read over [[WP:SOCKLEGIT|Wikipedia's policy on legitimate alt accounts]], but one thing I'm not clear on is whether or not I would be allowed, say, to have an alt account to edit articles I don't want to edit on my main. For example, I am understandably uncomfortable editing articles that are, shall we say, NSFW/fall under [[WP:NOTCENSORED]]. Would creating an alt account solely for editing...such pages be a legitimate reason? [[User:RedactedHumanoid|RedactedHumanoid]] ([[User talk:RedactedHumanoid|talk]]) 19:14, 2 February 2025 (UTC)

:You cannot have an unannounced alt account, I think. [[User:Stumbleannnn|~≈ Stumbleannnn! ≈~]] (he/they) [[User talk:Stumbleannnn|Talk to me]] 19:35, 2 February 2025 (UTC)
::Yeah I know that, but I am asking if what I listed in the last two sentences in my original message would count as a valid reason to create an alt account. [[User:RedactedHumanoid|RedactedHumanoid]] ([[User talk:RedactedHumanoid|talk]]) 19:53, 2 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Not sure. [[User:Stumbleannnn|~≈ Stumbleannnn! ≈~]] (he/they) [[User talk:Stumbleannnn|Talk to me]] 20:05, 2 February 2025 (UTC)
::::Alright. [[User:RedactedHumanoid|RedactedHumanoid]] ([[User talk:RedactedHumanoid|talk]]) 20:06, 2 February 2025 (UTC)
:Hello, {{u|RedactedHumanoid}}! The following is my interpretation of policy only and I don’t claim to speak for all users in what I say. With that disclaimer in mind, I think such an account, though not explicitly allowed by policy, would not fall afoul of policy as long as you are very careful not to use it for any [[WP:ILLEGIT|inappropriate uses]]. For instance, I would especially stay away from contributing to the same discussions with both accounts at all just to be safe even if you’re not hiding your dual-account status{{snd}}though that’s less likely to be an issue if they handle completely separate topic matters.
:Unless you really need to avoid it, I would suggest disclosing as normal in some manner. Policy states {{tq| Individuals operating undisclosed alternative accounts do so at their own risk and against the recommended operating processes of this project}}; it does also state {{tq| Alternative accounts should always be identified as such on their user pages, unless where doing so would defeat the point of the account}}, but I don’t think an account like you’re asking about is as likely to fall under that category.
:It would probably be best to wait and see if other experienced editors have other thoughts, but I think the main issue is to avoid any illegitimate uses. I don’t think editing other articles is, on its own, an illegitimate use, though.
:Hope this helps! Happy editing, [[User:Perfect4th|Perfect4th]] ([[User talk:Perfect4th|talk]]) 20:24, 2 February 2025 (UTC)
::Alright, thanks. Yeah I've been skeptical of creating an alt account for such purposes because the guidelines for legit alt accounts don't talk about the reason's I'm specifying. I think I'll wait to see what other editors might have to say as you suggested. Thanks. [[User:RedactedHumanoid|RedactedHumanoid]] ([[User talk:RedactedHumanoid|talk]]) 20:35, 2 February 2025 (UTC)
::I'd roughly agree with that assessment. The whole policy is not so much about legitimate alt accounts, but illegitimate ones. Understanding the inappropriate uses is the key to understanding the policy. With a 'privacy' account, which is what this appears to be, obviously stating the owner may go against that purpose, but it still may be useful to state that it's an alt. Keep your edits strictly segregated, and just don't do anything controversial (in the Wikipedia sense). -- [[user:zzuuzz|zzuuzz]] <sup>[[user_talk:zzuuzz|(talk)]]</sup> 20:38, 2 February 2025 (UTC)
:::By strictly segregated I assume you mean only edit articles that the alt account is intended to edit, and not articles that I would normally edit here on my main account? [[User:RedactedHumanoid|RedactedHumanoid]] ([[User talk:RedactedHumanoid|talk]]) 20:41, 2 February 2025 (UTC)
::::That sounds about right. Don't cross the streams.[https://duckduckgo.com/?q=don%27t+cross+the+streams&ia=images&iax=images] -- [[user:zzuuzz|zzuuzz]] <sup>[[user_talk:zzuuzz|(talk)]]</sup> 20:47, 2 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::Alright. [[User:RedactedHumanoid|RedactedHumanoid]] ([[User talk:RedactedHumanoid|talk]]) 20:50, 2 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::zzuuzz's point is never use more than one account to edit the same article or Talk page. [[User:David notMD|David notMD]] ([[User talk:David notMD|talk]]) 05:48, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

== How to handle incorrect graphic elements? ==

Ok, so on the [[Heron]] page, there is a map purportedly showing the worldwide distribution of herons. Clicking on the image, it is "own work" based on a book, which is a lot more intanglible than a newspaper source with a numbered link. However, the map is wrong. Just heading over to the article [[Grey heron]] one can see its distribution map, showing it a breeding bird or resident of areas not on the first map.

Now, it seems like I should raise this point on the article talk page instead, but my main question is not about the herons really. Its more about the [[WP:BOLD]] thing. My bold response would be to just delete the image, but that seems a bit extreme. [[User:Ribidag|Ribidag]] ([[User talk:Ribidag|talk]]) 19:24, 2 February 2025 (UTC)

:@[[User:Ribidag|Ribidag]] The map is copied on Commons and very widely used in other-language Wikis as [[:File:Heron_range.png]], so I think you should take your concerns to Commons. The original uploader is now long retired. [[User:Michael D. Turnbull|Mike Turnbull]] ([[User talk:Michael D. Turnbull|talk]]) 11:22, 3 February 2025 (UTC)
::Ok, I brought it up at the map section of their village pump, thanks for directing me there. [[User:Ribidag|Ribidag]] ([[User talk:Ribidag|talk]]) 20:43, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

== on quoting stuff from other languages ==

let's say i'm using a source on something. say then, that it's written in [[Brazilian Portuguese|some weird fictional language]], and says

{{font|text="O trabalho de Pedro Pepeca, por mais engraçado que seja, sofre de uma falta de variedade. (...) Se tu viu um, tu viu tudo."|size=|color=#265918|font=comic sans ms}}

transl. {{font|text="Pedro Pepeca's work, as funny as it is, suffers from a lack of variety. (...) If you've seen one, you've seen it all."|font=comic sans ms|color=#177013}}

in such cases, if i want to quote it, is it fine to use a literal translation, or is it better to just not directly quote it at all? '''[[user:consarn|<span style="color:#177013">consarn</span>]] <sub>[[user talk:consarn|<span style="color:#265918">(speak evil)</span>]] [[special:contributions/consarn|<span style="color:#265918">(see evil)</span>]]</sub>''' 19:26, 2 February 2025 (UTC)

:Hello, @[[User:Consarn|Consarn]]. [[WP:NONENG]] says "Translations published by reliable sources are preferred over translations by Wikipedians, but translations by Wikipedians are preferred over machine translations". [[User:ColinFine|ColinFine]] ([[User talk:ColinFine|talk]]) 19:40, 2 February 2025 (UTC)
::in the specific case this is about ([https://www.latercera.com/mouse/tattoo-assassins-historia-mortal-kombat/ this review] of [[Tattoo Assassins|tattoo asssassins]], which keen eyes will notice is written in spanish), it seems the extent of my knowledge of spanish (which admittedly begins and ends at knowing portuguese) would be enough to translate "grotescamente planos" (used to describe that game's stages) as "grotesquely flat", which is so unambiguous that machine translators defaulted to that being portuguese
::thanks '''[[user:consarn|<span style="color:#177013">consarn</span>]] <sub>[[user talk:consarn|<span style="color:#265918">(speak evil)</span>]] [[special:contributions/consarn|<span style="color:#265918">(see evil)</span>]]</sub>''' 19:57, 2 February 2025 (UTC)

== Are these good templates and should I make more? ==

[[Template:SPI-puppeteer-note]]

[[Template:SPI-discussion-note]] [[User:Stumbleannnn|~≈ Stumbleannnn! ≈~]] (he/they) [[User talk:Stumbleannnn|Talk to me]] 19:34, 2 February 2025 (UTC)

:Why do we need such template if we already have {{tl|uw-socksuspect}}? ––[[User:KEmel49|kemel49]]<sup>([[User talk:KEmel49|connect]])([[Special:Contributions/KEmel49|contri]])</sup> 03:38, 3 February 2025 (UTC)
::They have both cases. A sock warning, and a warning for the puppeteer. [[User:Stumbleannnn|~≈ Stumbleannnn! ≈~]] (he/they) [[User talk:Stumbleannnn|Talk to me]] 03:47, 3 February 2025 (UTC)
:::I have nominated both on [[WP:TFD]] as similar template exists.––[[User:KEmel49|kemel49]]<sup>([[User talk:KEmel49|connect]])([[Special:Contributions/KEmel49|contri]])</sup> 03:52, 3 February 2025 (UTC)
::::I literally already knew that. [[User:Stumbleannnn|~≈ Stumbleannnn! ≈~]] (he/they) [[User talk:Stumbleannnn|Talk to me]] 05:16, 3 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:Stumbleannnn|Stumbleannnn]] Duplicate templates are often viewed as a maintenance burden. I pretty frequently come across templates where the original author hasn't been active for a decade or more, and so bugs get reported on the talk pages but never fixed. [[User:Rjjiii|<span style="font-variant:small-caps;">Rjj<sup>iii</sup></span>]] ([[User talk:Rjjiii|talk]]) 06:49, 3 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::Fine. Are these templates atleast good?
::::::[[Template:Uw-typo1]]
::::::[[Template:Uw-typo2]]
::::::[[Template:Uw-typo3]]
::::::[[Template:Uw-typo4]]
::::::[[Template:Uw-typo4im]] [[User:Stumbleannnn|~≈ Stumbleannnn! ≈~]] (he/they) [[User talk:Stumbleannnn|Talk to me]] 21:31, 3 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::::@[[User:Stumbleannnn|Stumbleannnn]], It would be better if you ask that on talk page of [[Wikipedia:WikiProject User warnings|User warnings wikiproject]].––[[User:KEmel49|kemel49]]<sup>([[User talk:KEmel49|connect]])([[Special:Contributions/KEmel49|contri]])</sup> 01:02, 4 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::::Agreed, and I'll also note that the one time I did a template of this type, I did get some solid feedback from an experienced editor over there, [[User:Rjjiii|<span style="font-variant:small-caps;">Rjj<sup>iii</sup></span>]] ([[User talk:Rjjiii|talk]]) 02:30, 5 February 2025 (UTC)

== Writing an Article around an athlete  ==

Hello Teahouse community of Wikipedia, hope you are spending quality and academical times as always!

This is your colleague Mustafa with other served account.

Today I have a question of making an article viewed on Wikipedia, how can i quicken the review process, thanks?

Here is the link of the edited article pending: 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:MustafaAldahabi/sandbox [[User:MustafaAldahabi|MustafaAldahabi]] ([[User talk:MustafaAldahabi|talk]]) 20:59, 2 February 2025 (UTC)

:Hello, @[[User:MustafaAldahabi|MustafaAldahabi]]. Your draft has been reviewed, and declined, probably because most of it is unreferenced. 
:Where did you get the information from? If from a [[WP:42|reliable published source, wholly independent of Hani]], then cite it. If not, then it probably doesn't belong in the article. 
:More importantly, you need sources sufficient to establish that he meets Wikipedia's criteria for [[WP:notability|notability]], which your draft certainly does not at present. 
:{{User:ColinFine/PractiseFirst}} [[User:ColinFine|ColinFine]] ([[User talk:ColinFine|talk]]) 21:24, 2 February 2025 (UTC)
::'''Thanks Colin for sharing those useful thoughts and contribution tips with me.
::'''Now that I have all data written and displayed.
:: The problem is with citing and indicating external link only, or using extra paragraphic by mentioning  reference notions 'notions found related with other Wikipedia articles and such?'''
::'''Thanks! [[User:MustafaAldahabi|MustafaAldahabi]] ([[User talk:MustafaAldahabi|talk]]) 21:42, 2 February 2025 (UTC)

:The phrasing of this draft, [[User:MustafaAldahabi|MustafaAldahabi]], is promotional. It reads like a press release. Do not attempt to impress readers. Instead, try your hardest to ''inform'' readers. -- [[User:Hoary|Hoary]] ([[User talk:Hoary|talk]]) 04:28, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

:And more, [[User:MustafaAldahabi|MustafaAldahabi]]. The draft has three references. Each of the three is to something with a specific title, in English. Yet each is linked to the ''top page'' of a website. One of these three turns out to be in Arabic. The other two are offline. -- [[User:Hoary|Hoary]] ([[User talk:Hoary|talk]]) 04:52, 3 February 2025 (UTC)
::'''Hello Hoary
::'''So if I enhanced it to be informing instead of promoting and highlighting each citations carefully and show that third party links are a proof of identity and achievement claimer to the the Athlete"Ahmad Bani Hani" then the frame of the article will look better and more reading effecient, right? [[User:MustafaAldahabi|MustafaAldahabi]] ([[User talk:MustafaAldahabi|talk]]) 19:12, 4 February 2025 (UTC)
:Your Instagram post congratulates Ahmad Bani Hani as your cousin, and directs others to view his self-promotional web site.  This makes this Wikepedia article seem like an attempt to promote (not inform), as well as a [[WP:COI|conflict of interest]]. I'm not doxxing anyone, the name listed in your userpage self-promotional material is easily searchable.  Put your name and the article subject's name in a web search, and your relationship is there. [[User:Just Al|Just Al]] ([[User talk:Just Al|talk]]) 01:13, 7 February 2025 (UTC)

== "Combined footnote" help ==

I am in the process of making [[Pixels (2015 film)]] a good Article but one of the requests [[Talk:Pixels_(2015_film)/GA1#Comments|on the review page]] was:
*{{tq| use a combined footer text instead of separate captions. }}
This is what is being addressed (and I do not know how to "use a combined footer text" so if anyone could show me how that would be great thanks):
<code><nowiki>
{{multiple image
| width             = 250
| align = left
| image1            = Pixels - NY Subway Entrance - Side View.JPG
| caption1          = Movie prop for ''Pixels'' in [[downtown Toronto]]
| image2            = Pixels - NY Subway Entrance - End View.JPG
| caption2          = Prop for NY Subway entrance has no stairs.
}}</nowiki></code> [[User:Yovt|𝚈𝚘𝚟𝚝]] ([[User talk:Yovt|𝚝𝚊𝚕𝚔𝚟𝚝]]) 21:11, 2 February 2025 (UTC)

:{{to|Yovt}} If this is what you've currently got:
:{{multiple image | width  = 250 | align = left| image1  = Pixels - NY Subway Entrance - Side View.JPG | caption1 = Movie prop for ''Pixels'' in [[downtown Toronto]] | image2 = Pixels - NY Subway Entrance - End View.JPG | caption2 = Prop for NY Subway entrance has no stairs.}}
{{clear}}
:you can change it to this:
:{{multiple image | width  = 250 | align = left | image1  = Pixels - NY Subway Entrance - Side View.JPG | image2 = Pixels - NY Subway Entrance - End View.JPG | footer = Movie prop for ''Pixels'' in [[downtown Toronto]] for a New York subway entrance.}} 
{{clear}}
:[[User:Cremastra|Cremastra]] ([[User talk:Cremastra|talk]]) 21:59, 2 February 2025 (UTC)
:@[[User:Yovt|Yovt]], building on the suggestion above, you can also swap "width = 250" for "total_width  = 500", to make the images the same height:
:{{multiple image | total_width  = 500 | align = left | image1  = Pixels - NY Subway Entrance - Side View.JPG | image2 = Pixels - NY Subway Entrance - End View.JPG | footer = Movie prop for ''Pixels'' in [[downtown Toronto]] for a New York subway entrance.}} 
:{{clear}}
:The documentation for [[Template:Multiple image]] is pretty confusing (perhaps because it can do so much?). I think the "captionx" parameters are really only used to identify images; any kind of description or explanation is usually placed in the overall "footer". [[User:Rjjiii|<span style="font-variant:small-caps;">Rjj<sup>iii</sup></span>]] ([[User talk:Rjjiii|talk]]) 06:46, 3 February 2025 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Article for creation ==

I wrote and submitted an article for creation in December - [[Draft:Ancora Holdings Group]]
But I cannot find it on the AfC list of articles pending approval. Did I do something wrong in posting for approval? How can I find out if I posted it correctly? Or if I have to do it again? Thanks.
[[User:Benetsee|Benetsee]] ([[User talk:Benetsee|talk]]) 01:05, 3 February 2025 (UTC)
:{{ping|Benetsee}} I might be missing something, but it doesn't look like you ever submitted your draft for review. Did you create your draft using [[:Wikipedia:Articles for creation]] or did you just create a page in the draft namespace yourself? If you did the latter, you would've needed to manually add the template {{tlx|AfC submission/draft}} to the top of the page, and then click the blue "Submit" button when you're ready for it to be reviewed. Do you remember doing any of that? If not, then you might've mistakenly assumed that any draft you created would automatically be submitted for review. FWIW, if you look at the [[:H:PH|page history]] for the draft, you'll see that an editor named {{u|Justiyaya}} is currently "reviewing" it; so, perhaps you'll know more in a little while once they've finished. -- [[User:Marchjuly|Marchjuly]] ([[User talk:Marchjuly|talk]]) 01:23, 3 February 2025 (UTC)
::Thanks; I don't really remember what I did - it was in December, but it's all working now. I'll remember next time. [[User:Benetsee|Benetsee]] ([[User talk:Benetsee|talk]]) 21:22, 4 February 2025 (UTC)
:@[[User:Benetsee|Benetsee]] Hiya, I moved it to mainspace. I don't think the draft was submitted. Most of your sources looks good, I've removed some that wasn't good enough and fixed some tonal issues. Good work! [[User:Justiyaya|'''<span style="color:#1d556d">Just</span>''']][[Special:Contributions/Justiyaya|'''<span style="color:#000000">i</span>''']][[User talk:Justiyaya#top|'''<span style="color:#6d351d">yaya</span>''']] 02:03, 3 February 2025 (UTC)
::Thanks for all the help. Sometimes I think Wikipedia is like a bar exam - just when you're comfortable, there's more to learn. Appreciate the work you did to assist me. [[User:Benetsee|Benetsee]] ([[User talk:Benetsee|talk]]) 21:24, 4 February 2025 (UTC)

== Article for creation help ==

I submitted this article, [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Draft:Printables&action=edit&section=1 Printables], to the Articles for Creation, got a response, but don't know where to start. I'm trying to find reliable sources and add credible information, but I just can't see enough of it out there. What can I do now? [[User:MrGumballs|MrGumballs]] ([[User talk:MrGumballs|talk]]) 03:08, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

:I have searched a little about that company but i found zero information on reliable and credible ground. maybe that company is not a [[WP:ORG|notable one]].––[[User:KEmel49|kemel49]]<sup>([[User talk:KEmel49|connect]])([[Special:Contributions/KEmel49|contri]])</sup> 03:26, 3 February 2025 (UTC)
::Would it just be better to almost just forget about the article until it becomes notable enough to find credible sources? [[User:MrGumballs|MrGumballs]] ([[User talk:MrGumballs|talk]]) 03:30, 3 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Yeah, this seems like it may be [[WP:TOOSOON|too soon]]. You're going to want to find more secondary sources. —[[User:Tenryuu|<span style="color:#556B2F">Tenryuu&nbsp;🐲</span>]]&nbsp;(&nbsp;[[User talk:Tenryuu|💬]]&nbsp;•&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/Tenryuu|📝]]&nbsp;) 04:14, 3 February 2025 (UTC)
::::I'll wait it out. I'm mainly waiting for one giant milestone in the website's history. [[User:MrGumballs|MrGumballs]] ([[User talk:MrGumballs|talk]]) 04:29, 3 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::Hello, @[[User:MrGumballs|MrGumballs]]. Writing an article without ''first'' finding adequate sources to establish notability, is like building a house without first surveying the plot to make sure it is fit to build on, or building foundations. Even if you do decide it is fit to build on, you're probably going to have to go back and underpin. 
:::::{{User:ColinFine/PractiseFirst}} [[User:ColinFine|ColinFine]] ([[User talk:ColinFine|talk]]) 13:00, 3 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::Yeah, I understand that. It's the same idea as making a stance on an argument or point of view before evern having any prior knowledge on it. Except on Wikipedia it's more of a neutral point of view. Thank You! [[User:MrGumballs|MrGumballs]] ([[User talk:MrGumballs|talk]]) 16:27, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

== Citing US legal sources ==

Hello. I made an edit on [[United States DOGE Service]] wherein I replaced a link to an executive order on the whitehouse.gov page to one in the federal register, as the latter is a more reliable source etc. The only problem is I am quite unfamiliar with citing US legal sources on Wikipedia, so I just plugged a bunch of values into cite:journal and went with whatever came out (its citation 1). If I'm honest I'm not very happy with winging it with sources and just going with whatever looks right, so I was interested if someone could help me answer the following questions:
1. is it preferable to use a PDF or website link? In my citation I linked a PDF of the EO published in the federal register, and I'm not sure if this is better or worse than using a web page version of it
2. Is this style of citation acceptable on Wikipedia, or should I seek to use the templates in [[Template:United States legal citation templates]] for uniformity?
3. Other than those templates, is there anywhere else where I can find information on citing legal sources on wikipedia? Its always seemed like a bit of a struggle to know whether youre citing something correctly or not

Sorry for the long post, these issues are just bothering me, and sorry if the questions are dumb.&nbsp;[[User:NotADev|notadev]] ([[User talk:NotADev|talk]]) 03:58, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

:The questions are legitimate and I can see where you're coming from. I would say, with the format you have, a PDF compared to a website link wouldn't matter, unless one of the sources contained more information than the other, in which you'd use that one. Also, if you would like to go through the hastle of finding a template, it would be neater, garnering more reliability in the article. If you're looking for citing sources help, I'd recommend reading through [[Wikipedia:Citing sources|this page]] thoroughly for a deeper more directed analysis on citiations. [[User:MrGumballs|MrGumballs]] ([[User talk:MrGumballs|talk]]) 04:33, 3 February 2025 (UTC)
::Thank you for the response. I guess my question about web page vs PDF was more concerned with preventing link rot, but I think since they’re both US federal government links it should be alright in that regard? I think using the proper templates would be better, but I feel like I come across them so little that they seem more like a novelty… that my might my prejudiced view though [[User:NotADev|notadev]] ([[User talk:NotADev|talk]]) 05:47, 3 February 2025 (UTC)
:::{{u|NotADev}}, there are ''many'' ways to properly format a reference. The specific technique is secondary. What is most important is how the reference displays to readers. The whole point is to present the fullest and most accurate bibliographic information to the reader. That includes the title of the work linked to a URL when available, the author(s), the publisher, the date of publication, the page number if relevant, the ISBN number if it is a book, the name of the publication if it is a newspaper, magazine, journal or reliable website, and in select cases, a brief quotation. Personally, I take great pleasure in crafting accurate, well-formatted references and when I do my final proofread on one, I feel good about it. All that being said, it is best practice to follow the established citation style on decent quality articles if you can do so. [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 05:53, 3 February 2025 (UTC)
:::@[[User:NotADev|NotADev]], this is unrelated to the citation formatting question, but readers are more likely to click the links in a citation if they are PDF links. No idea why, [[User:Rjjiii|<span style="font-variant:small-caps;">Rjj<sup>iii</sup></span>]] ([[User talk:Rjjiii|talk]]) 06:36, 3 February 2025 (UTC)
::::It's easier for people to open PDF's than websites. Also, take a look between a PDF and a website. Often, I find that naturally I'm inclined to open a PDF because it naturally looks more credible. This doesn't mean it is more credible though at all. [[User:MrGumballs|MrGumballs]] ([[User talk:MrGumballs|talk]]) 16:33, 3 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::<small>I'm amazed at this. For me, having to open a PDF or other file is a definite turn-off, compared to just going to a website. Personal view. --[[User:ColinFine|ColinFine]] ([[User talk:ColinFine|talk]]) 10:21, 4 February 2025 (UTC)</small>
::::::{{smalldiv|1={{+1|color=green}} [[User:Schazjmd|<span style="color:#066293;">'''Schazjmd'''</span>]]&nbsp;[[User talk:Schazjmd|<span style="color:#738276;">''(talk)''</span>]] 15:03, 4 February 2025 (UTC)}}

== COI request for review: Tencent Cloud ==

I have previously submitted a COI request on the [[Tencent Cloud]] Talk page, using the COI template as advised but have not received any assistance so far. As a follow-up, I wonder if any voluntary editor would be interested to review our request there? Greatly appreciate the help. [[User:TencentCommsYeran|TencentCommsYeran]] ([[User talk:TencentCommsYeran|talk]]) 05:20, 3 February 2025 (UTC)
:Hi {{u|TencentCommsYeran}}. It looks like when you originally posted your request you used the {{tlx|Help me}} template instead of the {{tlx|Edit COI}} template, which is probably why you've not received a reply yet. Even though you tried to remedy this after the fact, your request still seems a bit malformed and more of a discussion than a request. Perhaps the best thing for you to do might just be to start again with a new request. This time I suggest you follow the guidance in [[:Wikipedia:Edit requests]] and keep your request a simple as possible. The users who help answer such requests are volunteers just like everyone else who edits Wikipedia, and they might pass over requests with lots of moving parts that seem like they might be time consuming to sort out. You might get a faster response if you break your request up so that you're only asking one thing per request instead of trying to do a major rewrite of the article in one fell swoop. There are instructions on how to use the "Edit COI" template on its documentation page; so, just follow the instructions there. You could also try asking about this at [[:WP:COIN]], but again trying to request too much at once might lead to your request being passed over by those not willing to try and sort through everything. -- [[User:Marchjuly|Marchjuly]] ([[User talk:Marchjuly|talk]]) 05:40, 3 February 2025 (UTC)
::Thank you very much, @[[User:Marchjuly|Marchjuly]] for this detailed instruction. Will have a try! [[User:TencentCommsYeran|TencentCommsYeran]] ([[User talk:TencentCommsYeran|talk]]) 03:46, 5 February 2025 (UTC)

== Taoiseach and President of Ireland ? ==

Hello, do you know the reason why on Wikipedia the page of the Prime Minister of Ireland kept the Irish name (Taoiseach) but the page of the President of Ireland has the English name (sorry English is not my native language !) We are having a discussion on WP:FR about the renaming of Taoiseach. Thank you for your help, best regards, [[User:Pierrette13|Pierrette13]] ([[User talk:Pierrette13|talk]]) 06:12, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

:Because Taoiseach has made it into English[https://www.gov.ie/en/organisation/department-of-the-taoiseach/], while the President still uses President[https://president.ie/en]. [[User:Chipmunkdavis|CMD]] ([[User talk:Chipmunkdavis|talk]]) 06:17, 3 February 2025 (UTC)
:@[[User:Pierrette13|Pierrette13]] You can see a previous discussion at [[Talk:Taoiseach#Just_call_it_Prime_Minister_in_the_Title]]. [[User:Gråbergs Gråa Sång|Gråbergs Gråa Sång]] ([[User talk:Gråbergs Gråa Sång|talk]]) 08:44, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

== draft page ==

how to move draft page to article [[User:Jagirani110|Jagirani110]] ([[User talk:Jagirani110|talk]]) 06:49, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

:Hello [[User:Jagirani110|Jagirani110]], are you asking about [[Draft:Jagirani]]? For a standalone article the threshold on Wikipedia is explained at [[Wikipedia:Notability]]. This is a higher bar than having sources to show the information can be verified. As the summary at the top of the page says, "{{tq|Wikipedia articles cover notable topics—those that have gained sufficiently significant attention by the world at large and over a period of time, and are not outside the scope of Wikipedia. We consider evidence from reliable and independent sources to gauge this attention. The notability guideline does not determine the content of articles, but only whether the topic may have its own article.}}" [[User:Rjjiii|<span style="font-variant:small-caps;">Rjj<sup>iii</sup></span>]] ([[User talk:Rjjiii|talk]]) 06:59, 3 February 2025 (UTC)
::yes asking jagirani draft [[User:Jagirani110|Jagirani110]] ([[User talk:Jagirani110|talk]]) 07:04, 3 February 2025 (UTC)
:::[[Draft:Jagirani]] has a submit for review 'button'. This will submit it for a reviewer to make a approved or declined decision. There is a constant backlog of drafts submitted for review. The system is not a queue, so it can be as fast as a day or as long as months before a reviewer makes a decision. If declined for a stated reason, the draft can be improved and submitted again. [[User:David notMD|David notMD]] ([[User talk:David notMD|talk]]) 13:33, 3 February 2025 (UTC)
::::Do not submit until you have added more text.[[User:David notMD|David notMD]] ([[User talk:David notMD|talk]]) 13:36, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

== Draft:Lewis Nitikman ==
* {{courtesy link|Draft:Lewis Nitikman}}
Hello, everyone. Please, delete this draft. See discussion: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Teahouse/Questions/Archive_1245#h-Draft:Lewis_Nitikman-20250104153000] [[User:СтасС|СтасС]] ([[User talk:СтасС|talk]]) 08:22, 3 February 2025 (UTC)
: Thank you.--[[User:СтасС|СтасС]] ([[User talk:СтасС|talk]]) 13:36, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

== Please assist with my draft of BOLP ==

Hi, please assist with pointing me in the right direction where the citations of my draft are concerned. On of the reasons the draft was declined was due to submission being improperly sourced. I have gone through the list of citations to ensure that they were extracted from reliable sources (ie: News organisations, Notable publishers, Official Government websites, reputably recognised websites etc). I am not sure which of the citations are considered unreliable. I would greatly appreciate any guidance. I am in the process of reviewing neutral encyclopedic tone. Thanks in advance.

[[Draft: Tsitsi Masiyiwa]] [[User:Substantiator|Substantiator]] ([[User talk:Substantiator|talk]]) 12:06, 3 February 2025 (UTC)
:{{u|Substantiator}} There is unreferenced content. I did some copyediting to align the draft with Wikipedia guidelines. [[User:David notMD|David notMD]] ([[User talk:David notMD|talk]]) 13:49, 3 February 2025 (UTC)
::@[[User:David notMD|David notMD]] Thank you kindly [[User:Substantiator|Substantiator]] ([[User talk:Substantiator|talk]]) 10:24, 4 February 2025 (UTC)

== Multiple accounts? ==

I'll cut to the chase: If an existing Wikipedia user has to create an additional Wikipedia account, one affiliated with an educational institution/university for training, Wiki-drive, etc., using their name and ID/enrollment number, and they wish not to disclose that on Wikipedia for anonymity (albeit they do not have an issue just specifying the existence of that good faith account), how are they supposed to go about the process? Are there any disclosure rules or guidelines for such a scenario? Thanks, <span style="background-color: black; padding: 2px 3px 1px 3px;">[[User:Dissoxciate|<span style="color: greenyellow">'''Dissoxciate'''</span>]] [[User talk:Dissoxciate|<span style="color: turquoise">(talk)</span>]]</span> 14:06, 3 February 2025 (UTC)
:Hi {{u|Dissoxciate}}. This kind of thing is covered in [[:WP:SOCKLEGIT]]. If someone is using alternative accounts in a way that keeps each account separate and distinct from the other, they might go unnoticed; most people, however, exhibit a [[:Tell (poker)|tell]] when they edit, and it's possible someone might notice a similarity between two accounts even though the accounts might be being used for entirely different areas of Wikipedia. It's important to understand that Wikipedia is pretty much a honor system; so, the more transparent someone is about any alternative accounts they're using, the less likely they'll find themselves perhaps being accussed by others of doing something inappropriate. -- [[User:Marchjuly|Marchjuly]] ([[User talk:Marchjuly|talk]]) 14:23, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

::Thanks for the response, {{u|Marchjuly}}! I understand the case of tell and tone, and how it's advisable to be as transparent as possible about owning multiple accounts. I went through the information provided under [[:WP:SOCKLEGIT]]. My final question, however, is, so long as the user mentions or discloses the existence of an alternative Wikipedia account within the lines of Sockpuppetry policy on their userpage, without explicitly disclosing the name of said account, there shouldn't be an issue vis-a-vis having multiple accounts, right? <span style="background-color: black; padding: 2px 3px 1px 3px;">[[User:Dissoxciate|<span style="color: greenyellow">'''Dissoxciate'''</span>]] [[User talk:Dissoxciate|<span style="color: turquoise">(talk)</span>]]</span> 16:18, 3 February 2025 (UTC)
:::{{hidden ping|Dissoxciate}} {{nacc}} You might be better off asking this question at [[:WT:SOCK]], [[:WP:AN]] or maybe via [[:WP:IRC]] than here if you're looking for someone to sign off on such a thing and say it's OK to do; however, my personal feeling is that not disclosing the name of an alternative account kind of defeats the purpose of being transparent and could potentially lead to problems, i.e. others (including some outside of Wikipedia) trying to figure out what the other accounts are if they suspect they might be being used inappropriately or maybe even just because they want to. [[:WP:OUTING]] is taken quite seriously and nobody is required to out themselves on Wikipedia (registering for an account isn't even required to edit most pages and do most things); so, one can try to keep their [[:WP:REALWORLD]] life as private as possible. In principle, someone should be able to create an alternative account without revealing any or as little personal information about themselves as possible and then just make sure to keep their accounts as separate and distinct as possible. As long as none of the accounts are used to do anything inappropriate or there's no serious overlapping of pages edited, most experienced Wikipedians probably won't go looking for them just for the sake of doing so. A techinical connection between accounts might be detected by some types of users like a [[:WP:CHECKUSER]] when there's just cause to look for it, but such users aren't really supposed their ability to do so except when justified in terms of relevant Wikipedia policies. Anyway, once a person starts posting on Wikipedia, though, the threat of doxing either within or outside of Wikipedia is always present, but such a thing pretty much seems to apply to any type of online presence. -- [[User:Marchjuly|Marchjuly]] ([[User talk:Marchjuly|talk]]) 21:49, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

== Doubts regarding Article ==

Hey I've been creating new mainspace articles mostly on floods and other disaster, examples of articles I created  are --- [[Floods in Algeria]], [[Floods in Angola]], [[Floods in Niger]] etc,  this time I'm focusing on to create for botswana My doubt is Droughts are more common there so shall I create an article including all the events, though I'm not sure for the clarity as of my knowledge it would change the path of readers and topic, Need guidance!!  [[User:JesusisGreat7|JesusisGreat7]] ([[User talk:JesusisGreat7|talk]]) 15:00, 3 February 2025 (UTC)
:Droughts are a bit harder to define than floods (see [[Drought]] and the list link), and where do you stop? Floods in..., Droughts in..., Fires in..., Earthquakes in... Tornados in..., Hurricanes in..., etc.? [[User:David notMD|David notMD]] ([[User talk:David notMD|talk]]) 15:25, 3 February 2025 (UTC)
:Should the general articles be just changed to Natural Disasters in... for conformity and formality. Or would this just mean that people would have a harder time to find the answer to questions on Wikipedia? [[User:MrGumballs|MrGumballs]] ([[User talk:MrGumballs|talk]]) 16:30, 3 February 2025 (UTC)
:Given how short a lot of these articles are, it might be useful to make an article titled "Floods in Africa by country", and then put each country in a section. You could redirect the smaller flood pages to that one, and it might make it easier to cross reference.  Alternatively another idea might be to do "Floods by country" unless that article gets too large.
:I'm having trouble understanding exactly what your question is. If you want to make an article with all the droughts in Botswana, you'll need to make sure it meets [[WP:NLIST|the list notability policy]], which can be satisfied most clearly by finding multiple reliable sources discussing "droughts in botswana" as a group. If you have an article of around the quality of the flood articles you might be able to add the actual list of droughts as extra helpful information, and then you wouldn't need to justify the notability of the article based on the list. If each drought is notable and you can find sources that thoroughly discuss them, then a list would also definitely be warranted, I think. There's a lot of ways you could do it as long as you make sure whatever article you do make meets the notability policy. [[User:Mrfoogles|Mrfoogles]] ([[User talk:Mrfoogles|talk]]) 21:57, 6 February 2025 (UTC)

== Autoconfirmed user? ==

How can I make an edit to a semi-protected page that requires an autoconfirmed user? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchism [[User:Eliswinterabend|Eliswinterabend]] ([[User talk:Eliswinterabend|talk]]) 18:38, 3 February 2025 (UTC)
:Hello @[[User:Eliswinterabend|Eliswinterabend]]. You can make an edit request [[WP:ERW|here]]. [[User:Tarlby|<span style="background-color:black;color:cyan;font-family:Comic Sans MS;">''Tarlby''</span>]] <sup>([[User talk:Tarlby|''t'']]) ([[Special:Contributions/Tarlby|''c'']])</sup> 18:57, 3 February 2025 (UTC)
::You are auto-confirmed (4 days, 10 edits), so you should be able to edit the article directly. [[User:David notMD|David notMD]] ([[User talk:David notMD|talk]]) 19:14, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

== How to format names of historical figures ==

Hello there, I was looking at the article for [[El Ballestero]], and I noticed that [[Hannibal]]'s name formatted with just his first name, and not as Hannibal Barca. I noticed that this is true also on [[Hannibal|Hannibal's]] page. Help would be appreciated. [[User:VibGans|VibGans]] ([[User talk:VibGans|talk]]) 19:52, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

:Are you talking about the name of the article ? [[User:Anatole-berthe|Anatole-berthe]] ([[User talk:Anatole-berthe|talk]]) 20:53, 3 February 2025 (UTC)
:Hello, @[[User:VibGans|VibGans]], and welcome to the Teahouse. I think that [[WP:COMMONNAME]] gives most of the answer. [[User:ColinFine|ColinFine]] ([[User talk:ColinFine|talk]]) 22:23, 3 February 2025 (UTC)
::@[[User:VibGans|VibGans]] I think @[[User:ColinFine|ColinFine]] wrote the better answer you can expect if you was talking about the name of the article. [[User:Anatole-berthe|Anatole-berthe]] ([[User talk:Anatole-berthe|talk]]) 05:38, 4 February 2025 (UTC)
:::{{u|VibGans}}, reliable sources overwhelmingly refer to this Carthaginian general as just "Hannibal", and therefore, Wikipedia will as well. [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 05:45, 4 February 2025 (UTC)
::::~@[[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] I agree with you. Do you have a particular source in mind ? [[User:Anatole-berthe|Anatole-berthe]] ([[User talk:Anatole-berthe|talk]]) 05:57, 4 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::{{u|Anatole-berthe}}, this is not a matter of a specific source. It is a matter of the preponderance of the sources. Just go to Google Books and Google Scholar and search for "Hannibal Barca". You will see many reliable sources that mention once that was his full name although some may say "Hannibal of the Barca clan". But after that brief mention, the overwhelming majority of reliable sources refer to him as just Hannibal, time after time after hundreds of times. In classical antiquity, today's given name-surname structure was unknown, although the Romans developed a version of it over time. Figures like Socrates, Alexander, Plato, Moses, Ptolemy, Hammurabi, Cleopatra and Cyrus were known only by a single name, although other descriptives were often appended as their fame grew. So, "Barca" was the name of his clan and means "thunderbolt" or "lightning" but is not a modern surname, and he was commonly known as "Hannibal" then and now. [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 07:18, 4 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::Thank you for the explanation! [[User:VibGans|VibGans]] ([[User talk:VibGans|talk]]) 16:44, 4 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::We agree on the fact the overwhelming majority of reliable sources refer to him as just Hannibal. <br /> <br />
::::::I thought you had maybe a specific source in mind. Your answer made me realise I was wrong.
::::::Thanks for your answer ! <br /> <br />
::::::PS : I knew already facts exposed by yourself about '''"surnames"''' in classical antiquity.
::::::I hope it will be useful for those who didn't knew. [[User:Anatole-berthe|Anatole-berthe]] ([[User talk:Anatole-berthe|talk]]) 21:51, 5 February 2025 (UTC)

== Inquiry on the notability of YoungLA ==

Greetings everyone, [[User:HC226|HC226]] here. I have noticed that there is no page for the fitness clothing brand [https://youngla.com YoungLA]. I will create the page if needed but was wondering whether or not it fits notability criteria. It seems to be well-known and has many famous athletes on their roster. However, information about them is minimal and it hasn't been thoroughly covered in the press. [[User:HC226|HC226]] ([[User talk:HC226|talk]]) 20:09, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

:@[[User:HC226|HC226]] Welcome to the Teahouse. If information about it is minimal then it is unlikely to qualify for an article here. Please see [[WP:42]] for the mimnimum requirements. Being well known and supplying famous athletes is not relevant. [[User:Shantavira|Shantavira]]|[[User talk:Shantavira|<sup>feed me</sup>]] 20:14, 3 February 2025 (UTC)
::Thank you, just thought it was an unusual situation since they are prominent in the fitness industry but don't seem to have attracted news outlets or other mainstream media. [[User:HC226|HC226]] ([[User talk:HC226|talk]]) 20:17, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

== Should I archive the older comments from this page? ==

The talk page [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Friedmann_equations] is very long, and lots of discussions are ~15 yrs old. Should I archive the discussions which have no recent comments?&nbsp;[[User:BennBluee|BennBluee]] ([[User talk:BennBluee|talk]]) 20:33, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

:In my knowledge , there are no policy about managing archives on the '''"Talk page"''' of an '''"User"'''. But I can be wrong. <br /> <br />
:I think you can act like you want about archives. [[User:Anatole-berthe|Anatole-berthe]] ([[User talk:Anatole-berthe|talk]]) 20:50, 3 February 2025 (UTC)
::[[Talk:Friedmann equations]] isn't a user talk page, {{u|Anatole-berthe}}.
::{{u|BennBluee}}, it would be worth setting up automatic archiving for that page, I think. See [[Help:Archiving a talk page]] for the options. [[User:Cordless Larry|Cordless Larry]] ([[User talk:Cordless Larry|talk]]) 20:58, 3 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Yes , it is not an '''"user talk page"''' , I was wrong. [[User:Anatole-berthe|Anatole-berthe]] ([[User talk:Anatole-berthe|talk]]) 21:30, 3 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Okay, thanks! [[User:BennBluee|BennBluee]] ([[User talk:BennBluee|talk]]) 21:55, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

== Good templates? Should I make more? ==

[[Template:uw-typo1]]

[[Template:uw-typo2]]

[[Template:uw-typo3]]

[[Template:uw-typo4]]

[[Template:uw-typo4im]] [[User:Stumbleannnn|~≈ Stumbleannnn! ≈~]] (he/they) [[User talk:Stumbleannnn|Talk to me]] 21:35, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

:Nicely designed, but oddly specific. While I've seen this kind of vandalism before, generic templates are perfectly good. [[User:Cremastra|Cremastra]] ([[User talk:Cremastra|talk]]) 21:51, 3 February 2025 (UTC)
::I agree that the specificity of these are not needed. [[User:David notMD|David notMD]] ([[User talk:David notMD|talk]]) 22:58, 3 February 2025 (UTC)
:::The very nature of typographical errors is that it is almost impossible to call them "purposeful" with any degree of accuracy. A large majority of such errors are accidental. [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 03:45, 4 February 2025 (UTC)
::::It's only used in cases where it's very apparent it was on purpose. (E.g: someone adds a typo to a perfect sentence.) [[User:Stumbleannnn|~≈ Stumbleannnn! ≈~]] (he/they) [[User talk:Stumbleannnn|Talk to me]] 07:50, 4 February 2025 (UTC)
::::I can think of like 3 times a vandal made this type of typo-making edit.{{pb}}Something like this: "The sky is blue" ---> "The sky is ble" [[User:Tarlby|<span style="background-color:black;color:cyan;font-family:Comic Sans MS;">''Tarlby''</span>]] <sup>([[User talk:Tarlby|''t'']]) ([[Special:Contributions/Tarlby|''c'']])</sup> 17:10, 4 February 2025 (UTC)
:::This seems to be a needlessly-specific type of the well-used {{tl|uw-disruptive1}} series, that includes so many possibilites of spelling, punctuation, capitalization, etc. That template-set allows appending custom text (also supported by TW), if you feel like being more specific. The problem is that it's disruptive; level 1 presumes it's an accident or good-faith. How can an ''intentional typo'' be a good-faith edit? [[User:DMacks|DMacks]] ([[User talk:DMacks|talk]]) 09:37, 4 February 2025 (UTC)
::::Fixed the wording for [[template:uw-typo1]] [[User:Stumbleannnn|~≈ Stumbleannnn! ≈~]] (he/they) [[User talk:Stumbleannnn|Talk to me]] 21:16, 4 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::Also fixed [[template:uw-typo2]] because I accidentally left the "vandalism" part, changed it to "disrupt", and also changed up the wording to sound more correct. [[User:Stumbleannnn|~≈ Stumbleannnn! ≈~]] (he/they) [[User talk:Stumbleannnn|Talk to me]] 21:22, 4 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::Still, nope. [[User:David notMD|David notMD]] ([[User talk:David notMD|talk]]) 06:04, 7 February 2025 (UTC)

== Disambiguation page and article ==

Hello! 
I would like to create an article for '''Global Manga''', so I moved the disambiguation page to Global Manga (disambiguation), thinking this would allow me to start the article. However, Global Manga is still a redirect, and I’m not sure how to proceed from here.
Could someone kindly guide me on how to fix this so I can create the article properly? I really appreciate any help. Thank you so much! [[User:VelvetQuill|VelvetQuill]] ([[User talk:VelvetQuill|talk]]) 21:55, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

:Hello, @[[User:VelvetQuill|VelvetQuill]], and welcome to the Teahouse and to Wikipedia. 
:Given your newness as an editor, I would very very very strongly advise you not to attempt to create an article directly, but to create a draft using the [[WP:Articles for Creation|Articles for Creation]] process, and submit it for review. 
:But in fact, I will go further: {{User:ColinFine/PractiseFirst}} [[User:ColinFine|ColinFine]] ([[User talk:ColinFine|talk]]) 22:26, 3 February 2025 (UTC)
::Hello @[[User:ColinFine|ColinFine]]
::Thank you very much for your thoughtful response and for taking the time to guide new editors. I truly appreciate your advice.
::I actually have a few months of experience editing and translating Wikipedia in other languages, so I have a reasonable understanding of how it works, including policies on verifiability, neutrality, and reliable sources. That said, I always welcome guidance and constructive feedback!
::My article is already in my sandbox, and I was considering submitting it for review. However, my concern is that the existence of the disambiguation page prevents the title from appearing as a red link, which means I wouldn't be able to properly connect my draft. I'm not sure if I'm explaining this clearly, but I believe this could be an issue.
::Would you happen to know the best way to handle this? I want to follow the correct procedures and make sure the article is properly linked once it’s ready.
::Thanks again for your time and advice!
::Best regards,
::@VelvetQuill [[User:VelvetQuill|VelvetQuill]] ([[User talk:VelvetQuill|talk]]) 23:04, 3 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Hello again, @[[User:VelvetQuill|VelvetQuill]]. One of the advantages of going through the submission process is that when a reviewer accepts your draft, they will sort out any issues of disambiguation, existing redirects etc. 
:::I see that you have added several references, whose titles suggest they might be valuable; but without an indication of the publisher, a reviewer is going to have difficulty evaluating their reliability and independence. While URLs are by no means required (they are a convenience to the reader and reviewer, rather than an essential part of the citation, and sources do not even need to be online) I predict that if you don't provide URLs, publishers, or page numbers, your draft will sit awaiting a review for a long time, because most reviewers will glance at it and say, "The author has left me too much work to do in tracking down the sources, so I will leave it and review something not so challenging" - or else they'll decline it with the message "Citations not properly formatted".  It's not even clear what kinds of works these are: are they books, articles, papers? [[User:ColinFine|ColinFine]] ([[User talk:ColinFine|talk]]) 23:43, 3 February 2025 (UTC)
::::Thank you for taking the time to look at my draft and for your detailed feedback @[[User:ColinFine|ColinFine]]
::::The sources I included are books that I have in print. I thought that only the title and author were strictly required, but if adding more details like ISBN is recommended, I will certainly update the citations to include that information.
::::Thanks again for your help! I'll make those improvements right away.
::::Best regards, [[User:VelvetQuill|VelvetQuill]] ([[User talk:VelvetQuill|talk]]) 23:53, 3 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:VelvetQuill|VelvetQuill]], for book sources, please include the page numbers as well. [[User:Schazjmd|<span style="color:#066293;">'''Schazjmd'''</span>]]&nbsp;[[User talk:Schazjmd|<span style="color:#738276;">''(talk)''</span>]] 00:16, 4 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::Thank you. I think everything should be ok now. [[User:VelvetQuill|VelvetQuill]] ([[User talk:VelvetQuill|talk]]) 00:32, 4 February 2025 (UTC)
:@[[User:VelvetQuill|VelvetQuill]]: {{welcometea}} If you really want to pursue this, I strongly recommend that you go through the [[WP:AFC|Articles for Creation]] process. Looking at [[User:VelvetQuill/sandbox|your sandbox]] where your content is stored, the (one) reference that you have will most likely be insufficient in establishing [[WP:N|wikinotability]], which means a [[wp:npp|new pages patroller]] is almost certainly going to ask for its deletion if it is published in articlespace. —[[User:Tenryuu|<span style="color:#556B2F">Tenryuu&nbsp;🐲</span>]]&nbsp;(&nbsp;[[User talk:Tenryuu|💬]]&nbsp;•&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/Tenryuu|📝]]&nbsp;) 23:01, 3 February 2025 (UTC)
::Hello @[[User:Tenryuu|Tenryuu]]
::Thank you very much for your advice.
::I understand your concern regarding notability, and in fact, I was still in the process of completing the article. Since your message, I have already added many more references to strengthen its reliability. That said, if you notice any other issues, I’d be very grateful if you could point them out!
::I do believe that Global Manga deserves to have an article rather than just a disambiguation page, even if some adjustments are needed. If necessary, I can also shorten the content, but I think it’s important to at least establish the topic.
::Thanks again for your time and guidance! [[User:VelvetQuill|VelvetQuill]] ([[User talk:VelvetQuill|talk]]) 23:07, 3 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::Draft is at [[User:VelvetQuill/sandbox]] [[User:David notMD|David notMD]] ([[User talk:David notMD|talk]]) 23:11, 3 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::yes, thank you. [[User:VelvetQuill|VelvetQuill]] ([[User talk:VelvetQuill|talk]]) 23:16, 3 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::::In the end I did submitted it for review...Let's hope for the best!
:::::::Thank you everyone!  @[[User:ColinFine|ColinFine]]@[[User:David notMD|David notMD]]@[[User:Schazjmd|Schazjmd]]@[[User:Tenryuu|Tenryuu]] [[User:VelvetQuill|VelvetQuill]] ([[User talk:VelvetQuill|talk]]) 12:31, 4 February 2025 (UTC)

== what cant I do? ==

can I have a small conversation or is it just helping build an article? [[User:$HADOW08|$HADOW08]] ([[User talk:$HADOW08|talk]]) 03:01, 4 February 2025 (UTC)
:Hello, {{u|$HADOW08}}, and welcome to Wikipedia! I'm assuming you're talking about [[Help:Talk page|talk pages]]. Article talk pages are intended just for helping to improve articles on Wikipedia; conversations about the article topics are best left for somewhere else. Happy editing! [[User:Perfect4th|Perfect4th]] ([[User talk:Perfect4th|talk]]) 03:05, 4 February 2025 (UTC)
::Hello, {{u|$HADOW08}}. [[WP:What Wikipedia is not]] should have some answers for you. You can certainly have a "small conversation" about building the encyclopedia. [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 03:07, 4 February 2025 (UTC)
:As mentioned above, talk page discussions must be tied to making changes to the article. I see you've edited the some ''[[Legend of Zelda]]'' talk pages, so to put it in context you may understand:
::'''Acceptable''' - "Hey everyone, they announced new sales figures for ''[[Echoes of Wisdom]]''. I think it's impressive and worth mentioning. Is this a good source for adding it to the article?"
::'''Unacceptable''' - "Hey everyone, I loved ''[[Echoes of Wisdom]]''. What did you think? I hope it sells 20 million copies!"
:Hopefully that makes sense. [[User:Sergecross73|<span style="color:green">Sergecross73</span>]] [[User talk:Sergecross73|<span style="color:teal">msg me</span>]] 00:02, 5 February 2025 (UTC)

== What other things should I add in my  profile other than user boxes  ==

I want to make my page more livley other than user boxes, what other templates can be used for my wikipedia profile? [[User:IdkWiki700|IdkWiki700]] ([[User talk:IdkWiki700|talk]]) 05:35, 4 February 2025 (UTC)

:{{U|IdkWiki700}}, [[Special:Contributions/IdkWiki700|your (short) list of contributions to Wikipedia]] suggests that you have a lot more interest in your own user page than in the total of encyclopedia articles. Please make policy-compliant improvements to encyclopedia articles, and put aside your user page. -- [[User:Hoary|Hoary]] ([[User talk:Hoary|talk]]) 08:28, 4 February 2025 (UTC)
:@[[User:IdkWiki700|IdkWiki700]] [[Wikipedia:User page design guide]] might have something you find interesting. [[User:Gråbergs Gråa Sång|Gråbergs Gråa Sång]] ([[User talk:Gråbergs Gråa Sång|talk]]) 09:00, 4 February 2025 (UTC)
::Your User page is a confusing mess. I recommend deleting all and starting over. Per [[WP:UP]], User pages are not meant to be 'profiles.' [[User:David notMD|David notMD]] ([[User talk:David notMD|talk]]) 16:42, 4 February 2025 (UTC)
:@[[User:IdkWiki700|IdkWiki700]], there are few hard rules on user pages. Can I ask what the "nowiki" and "references" tags are meant to do there? [[User:Rjjiii|<span style="font-variant:small-caps;">Rjj<sup>iii</sup></span>]] ([[User talk:Rjjiii|talk]]) 03:23, 5 February 2025 (UTC)
::Blanking it and starting over was a good response to these comments. [[User:David notMD|David notMD]] ([[User talk:David notMD|talk]]) 15:18, 5 February 2025 (UTC)

== Help! ==

I had the idea to try and reorganize [[Red Bull GmbH]] but I've turned it into a jumbled mess. Can someone else please make an attempt at it? [[User:Electricmemory|Electricmemory]] ([[User talk:Electricmemory|talk]]) 07:39, 4 February 2025 (UTC)

:If you made a jumbled mess, just [[Wikipedia:Revert|Revert]] it and try to redo the edit without turning it into a jumbled mess [[User:JustSomeoneNo|JustSomeoneNo]] ([[User talk:JustSomeoneNo|talk]]) 16:21, 4 February 2025 (UTC)
::You made a massive change to two articles, moving content from [[Red Bull]] to [[Red Bull GmbH]]. Your changes may get reverted at both. If so, start discussions on the relevant Talk pages. Personally, I agree with your concept, that the first should be about the product, and all the sports and arts and other promotional related content fits better at the company article. Others may disagree. [[User:David notMD|David notMD]] ([[User talk:David notMD|talk]]) 16:51, 4 February 2025 (UTC)
:::{{u|Electricmemory}} Interestingly, at the [[Red Bull]] Talk page, back in 2015 (see Archive 1) people were debating whether to merge the product and company articles, or else move all the promotional/sports content to the company article. I am (slightly curious, as a non-user of the product or follower of the events) as to whether your radical changes remain intact. [[User:David notMD|David notMD]] ([[User talk:David notMD|talk]]) 15:17, 5 February 2025 (UTC)

== How to fulfill edit requests? ==

Obviously I know how to actually edit the article, but the edit requests article says to " change the <code>|answered=''no''</code> parameter to "'''yes'''"" which means absolutely nothing to me, and I can't find anything regarding it. [[User:Aston305|Aston305]] ([[User talk:Aston305|talk]]) 12:12, 4 February 2025 (UTC)

:Nevermind, figured it out, don't mind me [[User:Aston305|Aston305]] ([[User talk:Aston305|talk]]) 12:18, 4 February 2025 (UTC)
:@[[User:Aston305|Aston305]] For anyone else who sees this, an edit request will have a {{[[template:edit request|edit request]]}} template. This will appear in the source editor as either <code><nowiki>{{edit request}}</nowiki></code> or <code><nowiki>{{edit request|answered=no}}</nowiki></code>. To mark it as answered and stop it appearing at [[CAT:ER]], this needs to be changed to <code><nowiki>{{edit request|answered=yes}}</nowiki></code>. [[User:Ultraodan|Ultraodan]] ([[User talk:Ultraodan|talk]]) 03:44, 5 February 2025 (UTC)

== Logos ==

Hey there! I was in the process of adding logos to different high school pages, however I had a question. 

For some schools, there are multiple variations of the logo. For example, [[Kealakehe High School|Kealekehe High School]] has a version [https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRG7q7jgOnLsLDzWtz2it8cjs4I66l0P_2Gxj4NzVI023rQFMEJrt1Q8hI&s with text], [https://www.westhawaiitoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/web1_Kealakehe-High-School-Patch-V03.jpg without text], and there are [[Pahoa High and Intermediate School|schools]] [https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQIv4fUWCn20aXYu9JXvmQANCfJqHNyWFGT5ja0bOexMg&s with no text on their logo but rather on the side]. 


Is there a consensus on which logo should be used? I was thinking about using the ones without text, as that is most popularly used. [[User:Theadventurer64|Theadventurer64]] ([[User talk:Theadventurer64|talk]]) 02:54, 11 February 2025 (UTC)
:Hello, {{u|Theadventurer64}}. I recommend that you use the version that appears on the homepage of the school's own website, as that can be considered the most official and most current. [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 06:42, 11 February 2025 (UTC)

== Movie poster upload issue  ==

How can I upload the official movie poster for ''Vikaasa Parva'' to Wikipedia without violating copyright? Is it permissible to download the official poster from sources like IMDb or Instagram? If yes, what information should I include while uploading it? If not, what are the alternative ways to upload the official movie poster? Thank you.  [[User:Vikashcv|Vikashcv]] ([[User talk:Vikashcv|talk]]) 05:55, 11 February 2025 (UTC)

:Hi {{ping|Vikashcv}}, I use [[WP:File upload wizard]] for this. You'll need to fill out a lot of specific details including the specific Wikipedia page it will be used on, who owns the image/copyright, what link you got the image from, and select the option for "official poster or cover art" or similar which indicates fair use. A bot will come in within a couple of days and automatically reduce the resolution, so a normal resolution image should be fine. I do notice that [[Vikaasa Parva]] already has a film poster though so I'm not sure if this already got completed. Let me know if that helps! [[User:Caleb Stanford|Caleb Stanford]] ([[User talk:Caleb Stanford|talk]]) 06:31, 11 February 2025 (UTC)
::thanks for your time and guidance.. [[User:Vikashcv|Vikashcv]] ([[User talk:Vikashcv|talk]]) 07:01, 11 February 2025 (UTC)

:It seems that without bothering to wait for an answer here, [[User:Vikashcv|Vikashcv]] uploaded the file, in an impermissibly large size (1000×1500 pixels). I got GIMP to reduce it, and deleted the original. (Now it will look as if I was the original uploader; I was not.) -- [[User:Hoary|Hoary]] ([[User talk:Hoary|talk]]) 06:40, 11 February 2025 (UTC)
::Noted. I'll be mindful  in the future. Thanks for adjusting it. [[User:Vikashcv|Vikashcv]] ([[User talk:Vikashcv|talk]]) 07:02, 11 February 2025 (UTC)

== Mass adding template ==

Hi, I'm not completely sure if this is the right place to ask. But recently I have been editing some language articles and I noticed inconsistency in template use. There is a template {{Tl|Australian Aboriginal languages}} used for navigation between articles for Aboriginal languages, but only some of the articles have it. I was wondering if there was some way to mass add it to the articles without it, or if it would have to be done manually - or maybe its use isn't appropriate considering it isn't on many articles (I'm not sure). Thanks for any help. [[User:Ngarrtjapiri|Ngarrtjapiri]] ([[User talk:Ngarrtjapiri|talk]]) 12:58, 11 February 2025 (UTC)

:[[User:Ngarrtjapiri|Ngarrtjapiri]], welcome to the Teahouse! Whether or not the navigational template needs to be added is covered by the [[WP:BIDIRECTIONAL|editing guideline on navigation templates]]: {{tq2|1=Every article that [[Help:Transclusion|transcludes]] a given navbox should normally also be included as a link in the navbox, so that the navigation is bidirectional.{{pb}}The use of navigation templates is neither required nor prohibited for any article. Whether to include navboxes, and which to include, is often suggested by [[Wikipedia:WikiProject|WikiProjects]], but is ultimately determined through [[Wikipedia:Consensus|discussion and consensus among the editors]] at each individual article.}}
:You could ask for opinions at [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Australia]] or [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Linguistics]], but please don't do it simultaneously at both places. To avoid [[WP:DISCUSSFORK|discussion forks]], you can start the discussion at one place and put invitation to join the discussion on the other.
:If there is consensus to add the navigational boxes to all pages, it can be done with semi-automatic tools. Such a request can be placed at [[Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser/Tasks]]. —⁠[[User:Andrybak|andrybak]] ([[User talk:Andrybak|talk]]) 13:48, 11 February 2025 (UTC)
::Thank you, this is very helpful. [[User:Ngarrtjapiri|Ngarrtjapiri]] ([[User talk:Ngarrtjapiri|talk]]) 14:01, 11 February 2025 (UTC)

:Hi, {{u|Ngarrtjapiri}}, I've modified your question a bit to display the name of a template. Hope you like it, but feel free to revert if you don't. --[[User:CiaPan|CiaPan]] ([[User talk:CiaPan|talk]]) 13:54, 11 February 2025 (UTC)

== Confused about null edits ==

Just saw [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=GSP_Belgrade&action=history here] that some [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/87.116.181.58 IP user] made 2 edits, that claimed to be reverts. These are actually [[Help:Null_edit|"null edits"]]. They were made after I edited the bus color scheme section, which didn't seem to update since at least 2014. Is that normal? Or will it require some remedy? [[User:CreatorTheWikipedian2009|CreatorTheWikipedian2009]] ([[User talk:CreatorTheWikipedian2009|talk]]) 21:44, 10 February 2025 (UTC)
:One possibility, [[User:CreatorTheWikipedian2009|CreatorTheWikipedian2009]], is that the IP first thought that one year was a mistake for a different year, and a little later realized that no it wasn't. Remedy? Yes, of course: According to a reliable source to which you have access, which year is correct? Specify that year, and use a reference to cite a source for the year. -- [[User:Hoary|Hoary]] ([[User talk:Hoary|talk]]) 22:28, 10 February 2025 (UTC)
:Hi [[User:CreatorTheWikipedian2009|CreatorTheWikipedian2009]]. Click "prev" to see the changes in an edit. A null edit is a single edit which makes no changes in the wikitext and is not registered in page histories or user contributions. The edits [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=GSP_Belgrade&diff=prev&oldid=1274887798][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=GSP_Belgrade&diff=prev&oldid=1274887954] were not null edits. The first changed 2003 to 2001 and the second changed it back. The first edit said "Tag: Reverted". That does not mean the edit was a revert. It means the edit was later reverted by a different edit. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 22:32, 10 February 2025 (UTC)
::What? How these edits were reverts? [[User:CreatorTheWikipedian2009|CreatorTheWikipedian2009]] ([[User talk:CreatorTheWikipedian2009|talk]]) 14:17, 11 February 2025 (UTC)
:::To clarify:
:::# [[Special:Diff/1274887798|First edit]] made at 20:'''39''', changed the year for model "O345 Conecto" from 2003 to 2001. This edit was reverted.
:::# [[Special:Diff/1274887954|Second edit]] made at 20:'''40''', a minute later, is the revert. It reverted the first edit. It changed the year for the same model from 2001 back to the original 2003.
:::I hope this helps. —⁠[[User:Andrybak|andrybak]] ([[User talk:Andrybak|talk]]) 14:42, 11 February 2025 (UTC)
::::Ok, now I understand. Was confused over 2 different years of the bus production. What an oblivious person I am... [[User:CreatorTheWikipedian2009|CreatorTheWikipedian2009]] ([[User talk:CreatorTheWikipedian2009|talk]]) 14:45, 11 February 2025 (UTC)

== Arbitration Committee protection help ==

Ok, a question is stumbling me, how I can [[WP:RFPP|request protection]] for [[WP:AE|arbitration enforcement]] (e.g. [[WP:GS|general sanctions]])? 
<small>Please give me some tips about ArbCom protection.</small> [[User:CreatorTheWikipedian2009|CreatorTheWikipedian2009]] ([[User talk:CreatorTheWikipedian2009|talk]]) 21:24, 10 February 2025 (UTC)

:Hi there!
:You can post a request at [[WP:RPP|Requests for Page Protection]] and an administrator will take a look at it, but can you post what the article in question is here to see if [[WP:AE|arbitration enforcement]] is applicable? <span style="font-family: Brush Script MT; text-shadow: 5px 3px 8px;">[[User:Sophisticatedevening|<span style="color: purple">Sophisticatedevening</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Sophisticatedevening|<span style="color: purple">(talk)</span>]]</sup></span> 22:28, 10 February 2025 (UTC)
::[[Politics of Russia]]. I need to find out if any arbitration enforcement, like, general sanctions, allpy to this article. [[User:CreatorTheWikipedian2009|CreatorTheWikipedian2009]] ([[User talk:CreatorTheWikipedian2009|talk]]) 14:18, 11 February 2025 (UTC)
:::apply, not "allpy", sorry for my typo. [[User:CreatorTheWikipedian2009|CreatorTheWikipedian2009]] ([[User talk:CreatorTheWikipedian2009|talk]]) 14:19, 11 February 2025 (UTC)
::::You can search for the article on the [[WP:AEL|arbitration enforcement log]], as well as any article you want to see, however if you are still unsure you can put a request a [[RPP|requests for page protection]] and let an administrator decide. <span style="font-family: Brush Script MT; text-shadow: 5px 3px 8px;">[[User:Sophisticatedevening|<span style="color: purple">Sophisticatedevening</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Sophisticatedevening|<span style="color: purple">(talk)</span>]]</sup></span> 14:26, 11 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::How I can put arbitration enforcement into my protection request? [[User:CreatorTheWikipedian2009|CreatorTheWikipedian2009]] ([[User talk:CreatorTheWikipedian2009|talk]]) 14:28, 11 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::Just type arbitration enforcement in your reason. <span style="font-family: Brush Script MT; text-shadow: 5px 3px 8px;">[[User:Sophisticatedevening|<span style="color: purple">Sophisticatedevening</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Sophisticatedevening|<span style="color: purple">(talk)</span>]]</sup></span> 14:32, 11 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Which arbitration enforcement? General sanctions? Or anything else? [[User:CreatorTheWikipedian2009|CreatorTheWikipedian2009]] ([[User talk:CreatorTheWikipedian2009|talk]]) 14:38, 11 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::::I have checked and the page is not eligible for enforcement. See the log [[Wikipedia:Arbitration enforcement log/2022|here]]. <span style="font-family: Brush Script MT; text-shadow: 5px 3px 8px;">[[User:Sophisticatedevening|<span style="color: purple">Sophisticatedevening</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Sophisticatedevening|<span style="color: purple">(talk)</span>]]</sup></span> 14:45, 11 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::But it was semi-protected for one year, why it is still unprotected? Some "politics of" articles may suspect contentious topics. [[User:CreatorTheWikipedian2009|CreatorTheWikipedian2009]] ([[User talk:CreatorTheWikipedian2009|talk]]) 14:57, 11 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::The arbitration remedy was in 2022 and protected it for one year. As it is now 2025, the protection has expired. <span style="font-family: Brush Script MT; text-shadow: 5px 3px 8px;">[[User:Sophisticatedevening|<span style="color: purple">Sophisticatedevening</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Sophisticatedevening|<span style="color: purple">(talk)</span>]]</sup></span> 15:03, 11 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::Ok, let's just leave the protection for now. [[User:CreatorTheWikipedian2009|CreatorTheWikipedian2009]] ([[User talk:CreatorTheWikipedian2009|talk]]) 16:54, 11 February 2025 (UTC)

== Help me verify this source ==

is this source reliable https://zenodo.org/ [[User:Amandachapin|Amandachapin]] ([[User talk:Amandachapin|talk]]) 16:45, 11 February 2025 (UTC)

:best to check here - [[WP:RSN]] [[User:Aquarium substrate|<span style="background-color: #e0ffff; color: #319177">aquarium substrate</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Aquarium substrate|talk]]</sup> 17:06, 11 February 2025 (UTC)
:@[[User:Amandachapin|Amandachapin]] [[Zenodo]] is not of itself a source but rather an archive of other sources, rather like the [[internet archive]]. So you have to judge the material in the archive on its own merits. [[User:Michael D. Turnbull|Mike Turnbull]] ([[User talk:Michael D. Turnbull|talk]]) 18:34, 11 February 2025 (UTC)

== Follow-up to [[Wikipedia:Teahouse/Questions/Archive_1248#Unreliable sources|Unreliable sources]] ==

Hi! Need a hint! Previously, a [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Teahouse/Questions/Archive_1248 topic] was created in which I ask for a hint whether the sources in the article were chosen correctly. But the topic was archived, and the question was never answered.

I need your help.&nbsp;[[User:Xarina17|Xarina17]] ([[User talk:Xarina17|talk]]) 18:31, 11 February 2025 (UTC)

:Hello, @[[User:Xarina17|Xarina17]] Looking at the topic that you linked to, the three sources you identified are all "official portal of". Such sources are almost always [[WP:primary sources|primary sources]], and do not contribute at all to establishing [[WP:notability|notability]]. 
:{{HD/WINI}} [[User:ColinFine|ColinFine]] ([[User talk:ColinFine|talk]]) 18:45, 11 February 2025 (UTC)

== Can you remake wordmarks? ==

Hey there! I was working on adding logos for the article [[Pahoa High and Intermediate School|Pahoa High School]] and I found that there were two logos: [https://www.google.com/imgres?q=pahoa%20high%20logo&imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pahoahis.org%2Fpics%2FPAHHIS_LOGO.gif&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.pahoahis.org%2Fapps%2Fpages%2Findex.jsp%3FuREC_ID%3D2853703%26type%3Dd%26pREC_ID%3D2336026&docid=iSdTtcnZ9ernoM&tbnid=b9_umed3kBL3IM&vet=12ahUKEwiE9bfApLyLAxUzIDQIHQbjE9wQM3oECH0QAA..i&w=560&h=400&hcb=2&ved=2ahUKEwiE9bfApLyLAxUzIDQIHQbjE9wQM3oECH0QAA one with words on the side of the logo] and one [https://www.google.com/imgres?q=pahoa%20high%20logo&imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.pahoahis.org%2Fpics%2Fheader_logo.png&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.pahoahis.org%2F&docid=rdl0Gj58XWG73M&tbnid=FfAgceHPRUeQCM&vet=12ahUKEwiE9bfApLyLAxUzIDQIHQbjE9wQM3oECBgQAA..i&w=290&h=292&hcb=2&ved=2ahUKEwiE9bfApLyLAxUzIDQIHQbjE9wQM3oECBgQAA without words completely]. Because most places seem to use the one without words, I was wondering if I could use a logo without words for the main image and a [[wordmark]] for the words on the side of the logo, [[Saint Anselm College|similar to how universities work]]. However, when Googled, I cannot find any official wordmark, but only the logo with the words on the side, linked above. In this case, would a custom wordmark be able to be created for the article, or should it be omitted completely? 

To create the custom wordmark, I would either just crop out the logo (if that's allowed) or find the custom font used by the school, and use an editor to rewrite the words under Free Use. [[User:Theadventurer64|Theadventurer64]] ([[User talk:Theadventurer64|talk]]) 18:53, 11 February 2025 (UTC)

:@[[User:Theadventurer64|Theadventurer64]] I see newsletters used the old logo bug 'P' by itself up until 2022.  The new logo is listed as just the 'P' on the athletic store ordering site.  There are a lot of versions that have different fonts for the text of the school name. Not sure any one of them could be called the official logo.  If the organization uses that format on its web site, you might screen grab it from there.  Definitely don't try to reproduce the logo and pass it off as official.
:[  Not an expert, but familiar with the specification process.  As a designer in a former life, if the logotype is specified, then it's part of the logo.  If it's not spec'd, then there is no logotype.  Sadly, this means that every project will add their own interpretaion of a font and layout because there isn't a spec.  That's my 2 cents.  I've worked from spec identity manuals from organizations as large as MetLife with Snoopy graphics, Pacific Bell, Salvation Army, and contributed to and created corporate identity myself. ]  [[User:Just Al|Just Al]] ([[User talk:Just Al|talk]]) 20:57, 11 February 2025 (UTC)
::Much appreciated, thank you for the advice! [[User:Theadventurer64|Theadventurer64]] ([[User talk:Theadventurer64|talk]]) 21:09, 11 February 2025 (UTC)

== Help & ask for suggestion of Reliable Source for my Draft ==

Hello good morning from Indonesia. Basically I've registered for Wikipedia since 2015 but only contributed for several edits on several articles and just started my new article 2 days ago as a draft in English Wikipedia. I've created a draft for [[Draft:Winston Utomo]] and just declined with reason ''"This submission is not adequately supported by '''"reliable sources'''"''". Honestly I've got several references on the draft but maybe I'm not fully understanding yet which one more or the most reliable one (example, https://www.fortuneidn.com/tag/winston-utomo ). Can anyone here help and give me some advices? [[User:Rachael Adrino|Rachael Adrino]] ([[User talk:Rachael Adrino|talk]]) 02:54, 11 February 2025 (UTC)

:{{ping|Rachael Adrino}} Since Utomo is still alive, the stricter standards of [[WP:Biographies of living persons]] applies, which means you need to have a cite for every claim the article makes. Putting a source at the end of the paragraph is not enough; it's more likely you will need one at the end of each ''sentence'', and possibly some in the middle of sentences. —[[User:Jéské Couriano|<i style="color: #1E90FF;">Jéské Couriano</i>]] [[User talk:Jéské Couriano|<span style="color: #228B22">v^&lowbar;^v</span>]] <sup><small>[[User:Jéské Couriano/AG|threads]] [[User:Jéské Couriano/Decode|critiques]]</small></sup> 02:59, 11 February 2025 (UTC)
::Alright thank you, so I need to put the references (both I've added and the new one) in every sentences as possible as I can right, since I've created the article about living person?
::And will you help me for checking the draft after I do several edits based on your suggestion next? [[User:Rachael Adrino|Rachael Adrino]] ([[User talk:Rachael Adrino|talk]]) 03:09, 11 February 2025 (UTC)
:::{{ping|Rachael Adrino}} You'll want to cite the references ([[Help:Footnotes#Footnotes: using a source more than once]] is helpful here) at the claims they can directly support, yes. —[[User:Jéské Couriano|<i style="color: #1E90FF;">Jéské Couriano</i>]] [[User talk:Jéské Couriano|<span style="color: #228B22">v^&lowbar;^v</span>]] <sup><small>[[User:Jéské Couriano/AG|threads]] [[User:Jéské Couriano/Decode|critiques]]</small></sup> 03:10, 11 February 2025 (UTC)
::::Thank you, I'll read & do my best for my first draft here. [[User:Rachael Adrino|Rachael Adrino]] ([[User talk:Rachael Adrino|talk]]) 03:24, 11 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::Good luck, Rachael! [[User:Caleb Stanford|Caleb Stanford]] ([[User talk:Caleb Stanford|talk]]) 06:33, 11 February 2025 (UTC)

{{ping|Rachael Adrino}} He may not be Wikipedia-notable, meaning that no amount of improving referencing will succeed. Documenting company funding does not contribute to a founder's notability, nor does documenting what are considered not Wikipedia-significant awards and honors. [[User:David notMD|David notMD]] ([[User talk:David notMD|talk]]) 12:07, 11 February 2025 (UTC)

:Then what is the best solution regarding this? should it be maintained with the existing references or should it not be included in the article? Please provide me some advices. [[User:Rachael Adrino|Rachael Adrino]] ([[User talk:Rachael Adrino|talk]]) 15:26, 11 February 2025 (UTC)
::Which three or more references - English or other - meet the criteria of [[WP:42]]? The financial deals content and non-famous awards content can stay, but the draft has to have references that are at some length - not just name mention - about him. [[User:David notMD|David notMD]] ([[User talk:David notMD|talk]]) 23:09, 11 February 2025 (UTC)
:::What about these sources:
:::* https://www.idntimes.com/news/indonesia/syifa-putri-naomi/inspiratif-kegigihan-winston-utomo-di-balik-kesuksesan-idn-media
:::* https://biz.kompas.com/read/2024/11/22/151520328/pendiri-idn-winston-dan-william-utomo-dinobatkan-sebagai-ey-eoy-2024
:::* https://east.vc/id/berita/ev-dci-id/from-news-platform-to-a-complete-media-ecosystem-idn-medias-dream-of-democratizing-information/
:::I think they were meet the requirements, but if they were not, please explain to me then wisely. [[User:Rachael Adrino|Rachael Adrino]] ([[User talk:Rachael Adrino|talk]]) 05:15, 12 February 2025 (UTC)

== Request for Review – Draft:Taxila Business School ==

I have drafted an article about '''Taxila Business School''' and submitted it, but it was declined. I have since made improvements based on the feedback and added reliable sources.

Could an experienced editor please review my draft and provide suggestions for further improvement?

Here’s the link: '''[[Draft:Taxila Business School]]'''

Any feedback or guidance would be greatly appreciated!

Thank you! [[User:Jdesuza|Jdesuza]] ([[User talk:Jdesuza|talk]]) 13:53, 11 February 2025 (UTC)

:Hello, @[[User:Jdesuza|Jdesuza]]. Apart from the paragraph on the legal case, the article is merely telling run-of-the-mill information about the college - the sort of thing that would appear in its prospectus. 
:That's not what a Wikipedia article should do. {{HD/WINI}}
:And even the legal case hardly seems significant. What is it about the school that meets Wikipedia's criteria for [[WP:NSCHOOL|notability]]? Unless you can answer that, there is no chance of the article's being accepted. 
:{{User:ColinFine/PractiseFirst}} (I see your account has been around for a couple of months, but you created this draft on your third edit, and most of your 52 edits have been to this draft). [[User:ColinFine|ColinFine]] ([[User talk:ColinFine|talk]]) 14:57, 11 February 2025 (UTC)
::@[[User:ColinFine|ColinFine]] Thank you for your detailed feedback and for taking the time to review my draft. I understand your concerns regarding the notability and sourcing of the article. I now realize that Wikipedia prioritizes significant independent coverage rather than promotional or routine information.
::I appreciate your guidance on improving my understanding of Wikipedia’s core policies before attempting to create an article. I will take a step back and focus on contributing to existing articles to familiarize myself with the principles of verifiability, neutrality, and reliable sourcing.
::Regarding the legal case, I see your point about assessing its significance carefully. I will also re-evaluate the sources used and work towards ensuring that any future edits are based on substantial, independent coverage.
::Thanks again for your constructive input. I’ll refine my approach and continue learning to contribute meaningfully to Wikipedia. [[User:Jdesuza|Jdesuza]] ([[User talk:Jdesuza|talk]]) 08:54, 12 February 2025 (UTC)
:@[[User:Jdesuza|Jdesuza]] I took a brief look at the book citations #11 and #12, since I thought that if the school had been written about in books, that would be good evidence of [[WP:NCORP|wikinotability]]. Apart from the fact that you haven't provided page numbers, which a full citation would do, I discovered that each book has less than a sentence about Taxila, which is hardly [[WP:SIGCOV|significant coverage]]. I therefore conclude that your draft is unlikely to pass muster. [[User:Michael D. Turnbull|Mike Turnbull]] ([[User talk:Michael D. Turnbull|talk]]) 15:00, 11 February 2025 (UTC)
::@[[User:Michael D. Turnbull|Michael D. Turnbull]] Thank you for reviewing my draft and for your insights regarding the book citations. I understand that for Wikipedia, significant and in-depth coverage in independent, reliable sources is essential for establishing notability.
::I appreciate your feedback on the citations and will work on improving them by providing full references, including page numbers. Additionally, I will re-evaluate the sources to ensure they meet Wikipedia’s standards for notability and provide substantial coverage of the subject.
::Your guidance is valuable as I refine my approach to editing on Wikipedia. If you have any further suggestions on strengthening the article’s sourcing, I would be grateful for your insights. [[User:Jdesuza|Jdesuza]] ([[User talk:Jdesuza|talk]]) 08:58, 12 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Not a comment on sourcing but please do not use [[WP:LLM|large language models]] to create articles or talk page comments. We want to interact with people, not AI. [[User:Michael D. Turnbull|Mike Turnbull]] ([[User talk:Michael D. Turnbull|talk]]) 11:55, 12 February 2025 (UTC)

== How to automatically archive sources ==

Hi! I'm working on pages of 2025 Asian Winter Games which will end in two days. I'm archiving sources from official website but I'm afraid that these information might disappear after the Games is over and that I might not have enough time to archive all these sources before they disappear. So I'm wondering how to automatically archive sources instead of archiving them mannually? [[User:Qby|Qby]] ([[User talk:Qby|talk]]) 07:59, 12 February 2025 (UTC)

:@[[User:Qby|Qby]], I don't know if this is what you are looking for but check the [[User:InternetArchiveBot|InternetArchiveBot]]. [https://iabot.wmcloud.org/index.php?page=runbotsingle This] will let you run it on the specific page. Goodluck, [[User:CF-501 Falcon|CF-501 Falcon]] ([[User talk:CF-501 Falcon|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/CF-501_Falcon|contribs]]) 14:32, 12 February 2025 (UTC)

== Hi, can you help ==

I need help making a wiki page for Comic Studio[https://comic.studio]

Pls help...
[[User:Wiki Fan49346824908|Wiki Fan49346824908]] ([[User talk:Wiki Fan49346824908|talk]]) 18:57, 11 February 2025 (UTC)

:[[User:Wiki Fan49346824908|Wiki Fan49346824908]], it doesn't look as if you've started. Before you start, please read [[Help:Your first article]] and think hard about what it says. -- [[User:Hoary|Hoary]] ([[User talk:Hoary|talk]]) 22:59, 11 February 2025 (UTC)
::Teahouse Hosts are here to advise on specific queries, not co-author. [[User:David notMD|David notMD]] ([[User talk:David notMD|talk]]) 23:17, 11 February 2025 (UTC)
:Hello @[[User:Wiki Fan49346824908|Wiki Fan49346824908]]. Read [[Help:Your first article|Help:Your first article.]] And submit thru [[Wikipedia:Article wizard|Article wizard]]. Thank you and welcome to Wikipedia! ''<span style="background-color:yellow; color:Purple;">[[User:Nedia020415|Nedia]] [[User talk:Nedia020415|Wanna talk?]] [[Special:Contributions/Nedia020415|Stalk my edits]]</span>'' 01:02, 12 February 2025 (UTC)
::That doesn't look to me like it would be a notable enough website to warrant an article. I wouldn't put time into it. -- [[User:DandelionAndBurdock|D'n'B]]-''[[User_talk:DandelionAndBurdock|📞]]'' -- 15:16, 12 February 2025 (UTC)

== Question about good faith edits ==

Hello, I found this ip making some good faith edits here [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Lynx_gang&diff=prev&oldid=1274908715] and [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Lynx_gang&diff=next&oldid=1274908715]. I reverted [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Lynx_gang&diff=next&oldid=1274908923] these edits due to the user not supplying a edit summary and removing content. Shortly after, the user readded the information, now with a edit summary [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Lynx_gang&diff=next&oldid=1274909458]. I decided the edits were fine, but I want to know if any more interventions are needed. Should I revert these users edits again or should I leave them be? [[User:Justjourney|Justjourney]] ([[User talk:Justjourney|talk]]) 23:14, 12 February 2025 (UTC)

:No further action is needed. They've adapted their behaviour and provided an explanation. If you disagree with specific content edits, you can follow [[WP:BRD]] process with them. ~ 🦝 [[User:Shushugah|Shushugah]]&nbsp;(he/him&nbsp;•&nbsp;[[User talk:Shushugah|talk]]) 00:00, 13 February 2025 (UTC)

== Whoops... ==

I didn't realize someone already warned this user [[User talk:89.24.58.116]]. Should I revert my warning or leave it be? [[User:Justjourney|Justjourney]] ([[User talk:Justjourney|talk]]) 00:37, 13 February 2025 (UTC)

:Did the IP in question make any edits in between the time they were first warned and the time that you warned them at? [[User:RedactedHumanoid|RedactedHumanoid]] ([[User talk:RedactedHumanoid|talk]]) 01:17, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::It seems like they are blocked now. [[User:Justjourney|Justjourney]] ([[User talk:Justjourney|talk]]) 01:18, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
:::I'd say just leave the warning, not a big deal tbh. [[User:RedactedHumanoid|RedactedHumanoid]] ([[User talk:RedactedHumanoid|talk]]) 01:23, 13 February 2025 (UTC)

== On the latest tech devices, should there be the name of an unreleased device in the "Successor" field? ==

Hello! I've come to notice that on the [[Samsung Galaxy S25|Galaxy S25]] and the [[Samsung Galaxy Tab S10|Galaxy Tab S10]] articles, there are the names of unreleased devices in the Successor field in the infobox (The Galaxy S26 and Tab S11, respectively). 
Should it be there, or should the reference be removed? [[User:Hinothi1|<span style="color: midnightblue">'''Hinothi1'''</span>]] ([[User talk:UserBob|<span style="color: darkslategray">talk</span>]]) 05:00, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
:Hi {{u|Hinothi1}}. Have you checked to the article's talk page to see whether there's already been some discussion regarding this? If there hasn't, maybe try asking at for input at one or more of the WikiProject listed at the top of each article's talk page. My first assessment is that such content might be OK to possibly mention somewhere in the article as long as it's reliably sourced and makes sense encyclopedically, but perhaps not just let in the infobox. This type of article isn't one I'm too familiar with and there's really only a general description of the {{para|successor}} parameter found at [[:Template:Infobox mobile phone]]. The edit made to [[:Samsung Galaxy S25]] was by an IP; most likely they meant well, but probably just aren't too familiar with Wikipedia. Lots of time, people see or read something about a subject and just want to add it asap to the relevant Wikipedia article (if one exists) thinking that anything goes and don't really worry about [[:WP:V]]. [[:WP:REDLINK]]s are, in principle, OK for articles when they meant the conditions of [[:WP:REDYES]], but I don't know enough about Samsung mobile phones to say whether that's the case here. Perhaps, if Samsung has officially announced these as being successors, simply adding citations verifying as much to each infobox is all that's needed. -- [[User:Marchjuly|Marchjuly]] ([[User talk:Marchjuly|talk]]) 05:46, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
: On a completely unrelated note {{u|Hinothi1}}, the "talk" link in your [[:WP:SIGNATURE]] is to [[:User talk:UserBob]]. Why have you done that? The "talk" link in a Wikipedia account's signature should, in principle, be to their user talk page and not someone else's. -- [[User:Marchjuly|Marchjuly]] ([[User talk:Marchjuly|talk]]) 05:51, 13 February 2025 (UTC)

== Advanced source searching ==

{{Courtesy link|Draft:What Happens Next (webcomic)}}<br>I'm trying hard to find sources for this webcomic draft to bring it to  mainspace, but I'm having a very hard time finding anything using Google and its subengines (mostly Google News), the [[User:Superb Owl/Reliable Source Engine|reliable source engine]], and other sources listed at [[Wikipedia:Advanced source searching]] (with the query ""What Happens Next" +webcomic"). If anyone else can provide more ideas for web searching, it would be appreciated. —[[User: Sparkle &#38; Fade|''Sparkle and Fade'']] ([[User_talk:Sparkle &#38; Fade|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Sparkle &#38; Fade|contributions]]) 04:01, 13 February 2025 (UTC)

:@[[User:Sparkle & Fade|Sparkle & Fade]] I looked at archive.org and [[WP:LIBRARY]], but for this subject, I got nothing. [[User:Gråbergs Gråa Sång|Gråbergs Gråa Sång]] ([[User talk:Gråbergs Gråa Sång|talk]]) 07:40, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
:@[[User:Sparkle & Fade|Sparkle & Fade]] I'm a big fan of Max Graves' work, but it might be [[WP:TOOSOON]] - a lot of webcomics can take a while to be notable. A webcomic that's only been around since the end of 2021 simply might need a while longer to be discussed by media- I wouldn't be surprised if the subject matter is also a balking point for more 'mainstream' comic media/reviews since it centers on queer/trans characters. I would be totally willing to help out with sources/the draft itself, feel free to reach out on my talk page. [[User:Sarsenet|Sarsenet]] ([[User talk:Sarsenet|talk]]) 13:28, 13 February 2025 (UTC)

== Feedback on Reversion ==

Hello, Can I please have feedback on [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bob_Avakian&diff=prev&oldid=1275470377 this reversion] and the [[User talk:LimeorLemon#c-Sircheezball-20250213063300-Bob Avakian Article Reversion|accompanying message]] I left on the user's talk page? [[User:Sircheezball|Sircheezball]] ([[User talk:Sircheezball|talk]]) 07:12, 13 February 2025 (UTC)

:I'm not a specialist about '''"policy of Wikipedia"''' and '''"guidelines"''' but I think your feedback on reversion was done in a civil way. [[User:Anatole-berthe|Anatole-berthe]] ([[User talk:Anatole-berthe|talk]]) 07:19, 13 February 2025 (UTC)

: Hello @[[User:Sircheezball|Sircheezball]]! I believe as long as any reversion is based on [[WP:RS|reliable sources]], and that you notify the user whose changes you reverted, it's perfectly okay! '''[[User:TNM101|<span style="color:red;">TNM</span><span style="color:black;">101</span>]]''' ([[User talk:TNM101|<span style="color:blue;">chat</span>]]) 15:03, 13 February 2025 (UTC)

== Translation review ==

i think i need a more experienced editor to review my translation Draft:Embassy of Russia, Helsinki in order to get it published. but i don't really know what i should do in practice. how can i get my draft approved? [[Draft:Embassy of Russia, Helsinki]] [[User:Warpfrz|Warpfrz]] ([[User talk:Warpfrz|talk]]) 11:14, 13 February 2025 (UTC)

:Hi @[[User:Warpfrz|Warpfrz]]: I've placed the AfC template on the draft, that way whenever you feel you're ready you can send it to be reviewed by clicking that blue 'submit' button. A reviewer will then run the proverbial ruler over it at some point, and publish if it's publishable, or else give you feedback on what needs improving. Best, -- [[User:DoubleGrazing|DoubleGrazing]] ([[User talk:DoubleGrazing|talk]]) 14:19, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
:@[[User:Warpfrz|Warpfrz]] I don't see any major issues but you could use the infobox {{t|Infobox diplomatic mission}} and fill it out much like the [[Embassy of the United States, Helsinki]]. [[User:Michael D. Turnbull|Mike Turnbull]] ([[User talk:Michael D. Turnbull|talk]]) 15:44, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::Or get it accepted first, then the Infobox. Having an Infobox does not contribute to being accepted. [[User:David notMD|David notMD]] ([[User talk:David notMD|talk]]) 16:24, 13 February 2025 (UTC)

== Are non english sources considered unreliable? ==

And if yes - isnt this a bit discriminatory - i wrote an article about a bulgarian event, providing bulggarian media sources, that happen to be well respected and long standing, but gor the generic "do not show significant coverage (not just passing mentions) about the subject in published, reliable, secondary sources".
So, can i rely on someone that has a bit of knowledge aboutthe  media landscape in bulgaria give a review or is it too much to ask? [[User:Dontoblerone|Dontoblerone]] ([[User talk:Dontoblerone|talk]]) 19:38, 12 February 2025 (UTC)

:@[[User:Dontoblerone|Dontoblerone]] I'm not sure that I'd infer that the sources were unreliable.  It's possible there were only passing mentions, not significant coverage. I don't know the particulars, just looking at the message you said was used. [[User:Just Al|Just Al]] ([[User talk:Just Al|talk]]) 19:47, 12 February 2025 (UTC)
::Well they were all articles dedicated exclusively on the subject, so definitely not a passing mention. [[User:Dontoblerone|Dontoblerone]] ([[User talk:Dontoblerone|talk]]) 19:53, 12 February 2025 (UTC)
:@[[User:Dontoblerone|Dontoblerone]]No, you can not rely on that, since people knowledgeable on Bulgaria are probably pretty few on en-WP. That said, per [[WP:NOENG]], Bulgarian [[WP:RS]] can be used here. [[User:Gråbergs Gråa Sång|Gråbergs Gråa Sång]] ([[User talk:Gråbergs Gråa Sång|talk]]) 19:50, 12 February 2025 (UTC)
::{{u|Dontoblerone}}, sources in other languages are just fine, as long as they are reliable. In order to establish notability, the sources must also be ''independent'' of the topic and devote significant coverage to the topic. When I use Google Translate, your sources show all the telltale signs of being generated by press releases or other promotional activity by the film festival organizers, and therefore not independent. That is the problem as I see it, not that they are in Bulgarian. A secondary factor is that your references lack full bibliographic details such as the name of the publication, the author, the date of publication and the original title in Bulgarian. This information is useful both to readers and reviewers, and omitting it makes volunteer reviewers less willing to evaluate your draft because those references just look sketchy. [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 20:04, 12 February 2025 (UTC)
:::@[[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]]
:::They are different media - 2 different newspapers, a radio and online site, i can not tell if it's press release or not, but the text is different each time, still for me independent means not directly connected to the subject of the article, i have no idea how they are writtem.
:::For me it's a discriminatory treatment in the sense that most articles have the same or less refrences, you may not be willing to adimit it or it can be subconscious for you, but it's pretty clear.
:::anyway, good job wikipedia, stay anglocentric. [[User:Dontoblerone|Dontoblerone]] ([[User talk:Dontoblerone|talk]]) 13:59, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
:No, your [[Draft:It's Alive! Horror Film Festival|draft]] was not rejected because the sources are not in English, but because they're mostly routine coverage in the form of announcements of a schedule, and a program. [[User:Dege31|Dege31]] ([[User talk:Dege31|talk]]) 23:24, 12 February 2025 (UTC)
::@[[User:Dege31|Dege31]], so what type of newsmaterial is needed for a festival event? they happen and people publish news about their schedule, aim and so on. I mean, i just checked several other festival pages and they have the same or less sources, but apparently there is not a problem. For me it's clearly a form of discriminatory treatment. of course i cant tell if it's based on language/region but it's my best guess.
::just a small example - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lund_International_Fantastic_Film_Festival
::1 source - the site of the festival
::2 references - aggain the site of the festival -
::https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haapsalu_Horror_and_Fantasy_Film_Festival [[User:Dontoblerone|Dontoblerone]] ([[User talk:Dontoblerone|talk]]) 13:55, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
:::{{u|Dontoblerone}}, that article you linked to is tagged at the very beginning as having obvious problems with sourcing. I hope that your goal is to write a problem free article, not one tagged for obvious problems. [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 17:08, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::::Thanks for the answer.
::::My goal is to comply with the rules, but as the rules sometimes are not clear i try to interpret them by checking what is allowed on wikipedia in similar situations. [[User:Dontoblerone|Dontoblerone]] ([[User talk:Dontoblerone|talk]]) 17:15, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::{{u|Dontoblerone}}, English Wikipedia currently has 6,953,786 articles of vastly different quality. When you talk about what is "allowed" you are implying that all of those articles have gone through the type of scrutiny and assistance that Articles for Creation and the Teahouse offer. That is not true. As for [[Lund International Fantastic Film Festival]], that article was written in 2012 when standards were much lower. The editor who created it had only six edits in total and did not submit it to Articles for Creation. The Teahouse was only a month old and just getting started. Back then, editors were allowed to create new articles immediately. Scrutiny of new articles was much lower. That editor just wrote the new article in the main space of the encyclopedia with their very first edit, made a handful of other edits, and then disappeared. Wikipedia gets tens of billions of page views each month, and that article gets 40 to 100 views a month. Please be aware that hundreds of poorly written articles get deleted every day, and your goal should be to write a much better article than that because both search engines and readers prefer Wikipedia articles that are not tagged for quality problems. [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 17:54, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Could someone perhaps share the sources in question? Because, backing up what others have said, no, sources do not have to be in English but, yes, the non-English sources must be reliable and must establish notability per the appropriate guidelines. [[User:Simonm223|Simonm223]] ([[User talk:Simonm223|talk]]) 14:06, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::::The sources are 
::::1) this article in "Capital" newspaper - https://www.capital.bg/light/neshta/2023/10/30/4543082_purvi_bulgarski_horur_festival/
::::It's pretty long - it includes short history of bulgarian horror cinema and then presents the festival that article is about. the paper itself is 33 years old and there is a wiki article about it.
::::2) this article in "Sega" newspaper - https://www.segabg.com/category-culture/bulgariya-veche-ima-svoy-festival-na-uzhasite
::::describing the second edition of the festival. this newspaper is 27 years old one of the more respectable ones in the country and there are wiki articles about in 3 languages, not in english for some reason, maybe i can try and write one, but should i bother?
::::3) this discussion about the festival on the bigest non state owned radio in bulgaria - darik
::::https://darik.bg/kakvo-da-ochakvame-ot-festivala-posveten-na-horar-filmite
::::4) two articles in bulgarian cinema specific sites - operationkino.net and kinobox-bg.com. one of the editors argued that they are blogs, i dont know how that to tell what is what, but they have section with description and editors board.
::::https://kinobox-bg.com/final-na-vtoroto-izdanie-na-its-alive-horror-film-festival/ [[User:Dontoblerone|Dontoblerone]] ([[User talk:Dontoblerone|talk]]) 17:31, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::The Sega coverage looks solid; based on your description, the Capital coverage also helps build a case for meeting [[WP:GNG]] (although most of the relevant content appears to be behind a paywall, and one that is easily mistaken for being the end of the page if you're not expecting it and not fluent in Bulgarian, so I don't blame a reviewer much for missing it). Audio sources, while not strictly forbidden per se, are much less useful than text sources for verification purposes, as even when one is fluent with the language they're hard to search for specific information (and they're essentially impossible for a non-fluent editor to access). The Kinobox source, however, is not useful, as they say themselves {{tq|Организаторите изказват благодарност на всички свои съмишленици и партньори, включително...на KinoBox България за незаменимото медийно партньорство}}--this is not an independent source. <sub>signed, </sub>[[User:Rosguill|'''''Rosguill''''']] <sup>[[User talk:Rosguill|''talk'']]</sup> 19:07, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
:::This is "[[Wikipedia:Arguments to avoid in deletion discussions#Individual merit|other stuff exists]]". [[User:Dege31|Dege31]] ([[User talk:Dege31|talk]]) 14:36, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::::@[[User:Dege31|Dege31]] do you read the links that you post? to quote "Sometimes arguments are made that other articles have been put forward for AfD and survived/deleted, these may be effective arguments". So it's case by case. 
::::I find your answers condescendening and a bit biased. Can it be because you are from the other part of the balkans? [[User:Dontoblerone|Dontoblerone]] ([[User talk:Dontoblerone|talk]]) 17:40, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::Please avoid personalizing content disputes. [[User:Simonm223|Simonm223]] ([[User talk:Simonm223|talk]]) 17:59, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::{{u|Dontoblerone}}, ethnonationalist personal attacks are not allowed on Wikipedia. [[WP:AGF|Assume good faith]] is an important behavioral guideline. Be very cautious. [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 18:01, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::::@[[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]]
:::::::i agree entirely - the ethnicity of someone should not be used as a measure of judgement for the merit of an aricle. That's my case here - i am asking if something is deemed important or not important based on the country of origin. [[User:Dontoblerone|Dontoblerone]] ([[User talk:Dontoblerone|talk]]) 18:19, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::::{{u|Dontoblerone}}, it is clear that it is easier for English Wikipedia editors to write about topics well-covered by English language sources than sources in other languages, and that the problem is exacerbated when a language such as Bulgarian has only about 8 million speakers. But if you are implying that Wikipedia as a whole is biased in favor of Estonian and Swedish topics and biased against Bulgarian topics, then I think that is a dubious notion presented without evidence. [[Bulgaria]], after all, is a [[WP:FA|Featured article]] of very high quality that has gone through a comprehensive peer review and summarizes nearly 400 reliable sources. We also have [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Bulgaria]] where dozens of editors work to improve articles on Bulgarian topics. [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 18:48, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::@[[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]]
:::::::::Thanks for the reply. btw i picked a random article about another festival, actually 2 articles - one swedish and one estonian, just as an illustration of the different standards used, but you have covered that, so thank you again. it could have been other articles, because there are tens of them. I decided to create an article following the guidances on the site, but apparently i'm failing. [[User:Dontoblerone|Dontoblerone]] ([[User talk:Dontoblerone|talk]]) 18:54, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::OK but let's summarize the advice you've received:
::::::::::* The newspaper sources are likely reliable.
::::::::::* En-Wp does not express any prejudice against non-English sources.
::::::::::* Go to [[WP:RS/N]] to determine if the "maybe blogs" count as SPS.
::::::::::* Don't engage in nationalist off-topic arguments.
::::::::::You actually *are* getting what you hoped to get; we're just asking you to be nice too. [[User:Simonm223|Simonm223]] ([[User talk:Simonm223|talk]]) 19:05, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::::For the cinema website question I'd suggest opening a question about their reliability in [[WP:RS/N]]. The first two sources look like [[WP:RS]] to me. [[User:Simonm223|Simonm223]] ([[User talk:Simonm223|talk]]) 17:58, 13 February 2025 (UTC)

== Image backed-out for not having a valid free use rational ==

Hello,

Please can I ask a question about a small problem I have run into.

I was doing some updates to the Bridgwater_United_W.F.C. article, because it is somewhat out of date. I noticed that the Bridgwater_United_F.C. used the club Crest of a Robin, so I copied that from the men's team page, to the women's team page, which seemed harmless enough.

However, the logo has been backed-out by a bot for not having a valid free use rational. I have spent a long time reading about this, but have ended up feeling somewhat overwhelmed by the information I have read and not any further forward in what to do about this problem.

It really is not urgent and not the end of the world if it were not added, but it is the first time I have come across this problem since joining wikipedia.

Have you come across this before and can you help offer some pointers as to what I need to do to re-add it please?  It may help if I run into this problem again.

Many Thank [[User:CherryDolphin|CherryDolphin]] ([[User talk:CherryDolphin|talk]]) 23:17, 11 February 2025 (UTC)
:Hello @[[User:CherryDolphin|CherryDolphin]]. I assume you've read [[WP:FUR]] already, so I won't go too deep into explaining how to use fair use images. But basically, the bot reverted your edit because you didn't create a second fair use rationale for the new article you added the image to. Fair use rationales are used for ''each page the image is used for'', not just the image itself. [[User:Tarlby|<span style="background-color:black;color:cyan;font-family:Comic Sans MS;">''Tarlby''</span>]] <sup>([[User talk:Tarlby|''t'']]) ([[Special:Contributions/Tarlby|''c'']])</sup> 23:30, 11 February 2025 (UTC)
::Hi @Tarlby Thanks for the reply.
::I had read that, but still was not clear on how to create the fair use rational or where exactly to add it to?  Is it added into the page, or the image?  I cannot see a fair use rational on the Bridgwater_United_F.C. page that I copied the image from, where did they add it?  Is there a simple example of someone else doing what I need to do that I could copy?  Apologies if these are stupid questions. [[User:CherryDolphin|CherryDolphin]] ([[User talk:CherryDolphin|talk]]) 23:46, 11 February 2025 (UTC)

:::[[User:CherryDolphin|CherryDolphin]], please see the "Summary" within [[:File:Bridgwater Town FC logo.png]]. You'll see the existing fair-use rationale ("FUR") there. You can copy the FUR, paste a copy of it, edit this copy where appropriate, and save the result. -- [[User:Hoary|Hoary]] ([[User talk:Hoary|talk]]) 00:19, 12 February 2025 (UTC)
:::{{ping|CherryDolphin}} You should make sure that the logo used by the men's team is clearly the same primary logo being used by the women's team; don't just add the logo to the women's team's article because it looks nice or because it's used by the men't team. Many women's teams have their own seperate branding from their men's team counterparts and you should used the logo the women team uses for their branding. In addition, in previous discussions about this type of non-free use, they're have been many arguments made stating that [such logos should only be used in the article of parent entities of sports organizations/teams and not necessarily in articles about child entities of such organizations/teams (see item 17 of [[:WP:NFC#UUI]] for more details). Wikipedia's non-free content use policy tells us to minimize are use of non-free content as much as possible because even a single use is considered quite the exception to [[:WP:COPY#Guidelines for images and other media files]]; this means addition uses of the same file (even in different articles) can be much harder to justify, and a consensus has emerged over the years that such additional uses aren't automatically compliant and that no image at all is an acceptable alternative. So, logos used for women's teams, youth teams, B-teams, minor-league teams, reserve teams, etc. should be as team-specific as possible and not necessarily be the same logo as the parent club, which in many cases is the men's team. This might seem unfair in a sense, but it's the way Wikipedia's non-free content use has been applied for many years.  Adding the missing rationale for the use in the women's team's article to the files page should stop the bot from removing the file again, but [[:WP:JUSTONE|someone could still challenge that particular non-free use of the file if they feel it's not policy compliant]]. Finally, if [https://facebook.com/BridgwaterUtdW/ this] and [https://x.com/BridgwaterUtdW/status/1487816477969367041?mx=2 this] are the same [[:Bridgwater United W.F.C.]], then it seems the women's team might indeed be branding itself differently from men's team; therefore, the branding specific to the women's team should be used instead of the branding for the men's team. -- [[User:Marchjuly|Marchjuly]] ([[User talk:Marchjuly|talk]]) 01:50, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::::Thank you @[[User:Marchjuly|Marchjuly]] and @[[User:Tarlby|Tarlby]]
::::It has been interesting to to learn more about the fair use of images.  
::::The twitter and facebook pages are indeed the correct ones for the team.  I tried to find out more information about the branding, but could only find [https://www.afcb.co.uk/news/2025/february/10/match-gallery--pictures-from-win-over-bridgwater-united/ this]  Actually this was a match I attended in person and is what prompted me to do the updates to their page.  It does confirm that the branding for the women's team may be different from the men's team, so I have decided it is best to not to add the club crest/image after all.
::::The only change I have made is to remove some of their squad members who I know for certain now no longer play for them. (They now play for AFC Bournemouth Women).  I have also sent an email to the contact address on the Bridgwater United website asking for an up to date teamsheet.  I will do any other squad updates, if I hear back from them.
::::Thanks again for your help. [[User:CherryDolphin|CherryDolphin]] ([[User talk:CherryDolphin|talk]]) 22:44, 13 February 2025 (UTC)

== Archiving question ==

On my user talk page, I just set up archiving. I have a notice at the top of my talk page. Is there a way I can keep that notice automatically once the bot archives the talk page? [[User:Justjourney|Justjourney]] ([[User talk:Justjourney|talk]]) 02:32, 13 February 2025 (UTC)

:@[[User:Justjourney|Justjourney]] According to the documentation at [[User:ClueBot III]], you can use the parameter |headerlevel= to control that. I think that your talk page is already set up to leave the notice unarchived but you can check once the bot first runs. [[User:Michael D. Turnbull|Mike Turnbull]] ([[User talk:Michael D. Turnbull|talk]]) 15:58, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::Thank you [[User:Justjourney|Justjourney]] ([[User talk:Justjourney|talk]]) 23:27, 13 February 2025 (UTC)

== Page draft rejected ==

I wrote a page on a non-profit organisation I am involved in (The Australasian Institute for Maritime Archaeology (AIMA)) that was rejected firstly for lack of references. I added many book and article references to the organisation as well as a lot of cross references to related legislation, organisations and subjects. However, I have now been rejected again because the draft was considered not to be:

* [[Wikipedia:ORGDEPTH|''in-depth'']] (not just brief mentions about the subject or routine announcements)
* [[Wikipedia:Reliable sources|''reliable'']]
* [[Wikipedia:No original research#Secondary|''secondary'']]
* [[Wikipedia:ORGIND|''strictly independent'']] of the subject

Its really strange to me that a page on this organisation that is 50 years old and is the main maritime archaeology body in Australasia, mentioned in many books and papers, shouldn't meet these criteria. I thought I had added a lot of material that meets all the criteria in the second response. Until the page is published its hard to get others to add material and I can't even add the logo to a draft page. 

I'd appreciate any advice on what the threshold is mean to be for these things. They seem pretty subjective but I'd like to know where to direct my effort and avoid too many more drafts as the process is much slower than I remember from years ago

[[Draft:The Australasian Institute for Maritime Archaeology (AIMA)]] [[User:Lordjaysus|Lordjaysus]] ([[User talk:Lordjaysus|talk]]) 23:54, 13 February 2025 (UTC)

:I should point out that almost all the book and article references I added are reliable, secondary and strictly independent of the organisation, being written by leading scholars of the discipline and published by major publishing houses, so that's a big part of why I find this feedback confusing - it seems to be asking for what I have already done [[User:Lordjaysus|Lordjaysus]] ([[User talk:Lordjaysus|talk]]) 23:57, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::hi @[[User:Lordjaysus|Lordjaysus]] and welcome to Wikipedia! I haven't read your provided sources yet (and they seem to be actual books, which is valid but may be harder to access for other editors), but each of the terms [[WP:ORGDEPTH|in-depth]], [[WP:RS|reliable]], [[WP:secondary|secondary]], and [[WP:ORGIND|independent]] have specific meanings in Wikipedia:
::* '''[[WP:ORGDEPTH|in-depth]]''' basically just says, "does this source focus on the subject of the article or just briefly mention it?" for example, a news article on Person XYZ doing some accomplishment is in-depth coverage for XYZ, while one on Organization ABC doing D thing, where Person XYZ just so happens to be a member isn't in-depth coverage of XYZ (but is for ABC).
::* '''[[WP:RS|reliable (source)]]''' means, "is the source actually reliable or trustworthy?" in [[WP:SCHOLARSHIP|the sciences]], that would be published peer-reviewed papers and such, while in [[WP:NEWSORG|news]], you should verify their reputation, if they are well-known for fact-checking and accuracy.
::* '''[[WP:secondary|secondary]]''' just means [[secondary source]]s, one step removed from and analyzes and interprets a [[primary source]]. for example, a book talking about research done by researchers A, B et al is secondary because it interprets and reviews this research, while the research paper A, B et al is the primary source here.
::* '''[[WP:independent|independent]]''' means that your sources do not originate from or are in any way related to your subject except for reporting on it. for example, press releases and interviews with the subject are not considered secondary because they are directly related to the subject (the subject publishes the press release, they are part of the interview).
::not all sources have to follow all of these (you can use some primary sources as long as you are careful with their use and at least [[WP:reliable|reliable]] for what they are reporting), but to prove a subject's [[WP:notability|notability]] in Wikipedia terms, you need at least a few sources that are in-depth, reliable, secondary, and independent. happy editing! &#128156; <span style="border-radius:4px;background:#edf">&nbsp;[[User:Melecie|<span style="color:#471a7a">'''mel'''ecie</span>]]&nbsp;</span> [[User talk:Melecie|<span style="color:#471a7a">talk</span>]] - 01:20, 14 February 2025 (UTC)
::@[[User:Lordjaysus|Lordjaysus]] Just an editor like you, but noticed that the draft reads like a promotional brochure, not an encyclopedia article. A question for citation might be: If something is 'pivotal', who said it, and why?  Also, the first source Staniforth, who was the president of the AIMA, who also writes newsletter articles and training materials for them, might not be an independent source of information about the organisation.  You might want to ask those questions on the [[Draft_talk:The_Australasian_Institute_for_Maritime_Archaeology_(AIMA)|talk page]] for the article, which currently does not have any discussion. [[User:Just Al|Just Al]] ([[User talk:Just Al|talk]]) 01:31, 14 February 2025 (UTC)

The draft has been Declined twice, not Rejected. The later decision is more severe, meaning that the reviewer so no potential for the draft to succeed without deleting everything and starting over (or not even that).

Per the Comments on the draft, remove all hyperlinks (some may be suitable as refs or External links). Section and subsection text requires references. If refs are books, include the page numbers that are relevant. [[User:David notMD|David notMD]] ([[User talk:David notMD|talk]]) 03:38, 14 February 2025 (UTC)

== why is there no trivia? ==

you know how in fandom there is a trivia part? here's an exemple: https://woohoo.fandom.com/wiki/Flora#Trivia why doesnt Wikipedia have the same? i would be cool! [[User:Douglas15amor|Douglas15amor]] ([[User talk:Douglas15amor|talk]]) 22:15, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
:[[User:Douglas15amor|Douglas15amor]] - please see [[MOS:TRIVIA]] - [[User:Arjayay|Arjayay]] ([[User talk:Arjayay|talk]]) 22:17, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|Douglas15amor}} The general advice is not put any trivia in any fandom article. It is a bane on Wikipedia and there has a years long effort to remove reams of it. Any information that goes into the article, should be specific to the article subject. If its not specific to the subject, then it needs to either go into another suitable article, assuming  there  is [[WP:RS|reliable sources]] to support it or left out. '''<span style="text-shadow:7px 7px 8px black; font-family:Papyrus">[[User:scope_creep|<span style="color:#3399ff">scope_creep</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:scope_creep#top|Talk]]</sup></span>''' 05:44, 14 February 2025 (UTC)

== citing patents ==

I'm a new editor learning best practices for citing facts in articles and want to learn more about citing patents. I [[Wikipedia:Verifiability#Self-published sources (online and paper)|read]] that patents are to be used with caution as self-published primary sources and that oftentimes the same information is available in a different non-self-published source.  I edit in technology and science so most of the relevant patents are applied for and self-published by major non-profit/for-profit organizations on behalf of inventors who are subject matter experts. Is it advisable to include patent citations that support facts better than other sources?  Is the filing or licensing of patents by major organizations relevant to notability? How can I balance citing a freely accessible patent versus similar information in a source that is behind a paywall? [[User:ProfessorBioTech|ProfessorBioTech]] ([[User talk:ProfessorBioTech|talk]]) 02:54, 13 February 2025 (UTC)

:@[[User:ProfessorBioTech|ProfessorBioTech]] On the point of a [[WP:PAYWALL]]ed [[WP:RS]] vs a [[WP:SPS]] (?) patent, go paywall (or even [[WP:OFFLINE]]). No, filing of patents do not contribute to notability, but if independent [[WP:RS]] notice and bother to write about it, such coverage might contribute to [[WP:GNG]]. I don't know if you found [[WP:PATENTS]], but if not, there's the link. [[User:Gråbergs Gråa Sång|Gråbergs Gråa Sång]] ([[User talk:Gråbergs Gråa Sång|talk]]) 07:27, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
:Hi {{u|ProfessorBioTech}}. You could perhaps cite a particular patent just in support of basic uncontentious factual information about it (if such information is [[:WP:NOTEVERYTHING|encyclopedically relevant]] to readers), but you probably need to be careful trying to cite it for any interpretations or claims about whatever the patent is for and instead use [[:WP:SECONDARY]] and [[:WP:INDEPENDENT]] sources for such things. In a way, citing a patent is sort of like citing a tweet or other type of social media post [[:WP:ABOUTSELF|made by the subject of an article]]; it's probably OK for non-contentious information about the patent or the patent holder, (date, name, number, filer's name, etc.) but not OK for any kind of exceptional claim or interpretation (e.g this is the best invention ever). -- [[User:Marchjuly|Marchjuly]] ([[User talk:Marchjuly|talk]]) 07:47, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::{{ping|ProfessorBioTech}} As they tend to be [[WP:PRIMARY]] sources, even if there is good reliable secondary sources on them, e.g. they are world-changing, then citing them correctly tends to be quite difficult to do it in a neutral i.e on [[WP:NPOV]] and in a non-promotional i.e. [[WP:PROMO]] manner. I've seen many laudable editors with the best intentions, drifting slowly into promotion of the subject, particularly in academic [[WP:BLP]]'s that become higly subjective over time. It starts well enough. Unless they're absolutely world-changing, well known and well covered by [[WP:SECONDARY]] coverage, I would avoid like the plague. Is the filing or licensing of patents by major organizations relevant to notability? No.  '''<span style="text-shadow:7px 7px 8px black; font-family:Papyrus">[[User:scope_creep|<span style="color:#3399ff">scope_creep</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:scope_creep#top|Talk]]</sup></span>''' 06:10, 14 February 2025 (UTC)

== [[WP:HOUND]] advice ==

What measures can one take in the event that one is being [[WP:HOUND|hounded]] by other editors? What kind of evidence is needed to prove this? As always, I will gratefully receive and any advice and insight. Thank you. —[[User:CurryTime7-24|CurryTime7-24]] ([[User talk:CurryTime7-24|talk]]) 02:03, 14 February 2025 (UTC)
:{{ping|CurryTime7-24}} Nobody can really say how you should feel, but if this is related to either [[:Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard#Symphony No. 2 (Walton)]] or [[:Talk:Symphony No. 2 (Walton)#Citation style]], you probably should keep all relevant discussion there. You might also want to take a look at [[:WP:CAUTIOUS]] because sometimes it's more productive to discuss major changes to an article before making them; Wikipedia wants us to be [[:WP:BOLD]] for sure, but when someone else is just as [[:WP:BOLD]] in reverting the changes we made, the [[:WP:ONUS]] then generally falls upon us to seek consensus for them (absent any very serious-policy based concern that requires they be made asap). As for HOUND, you might want to take a look at [[:WP:AOHA]] and [[:WP:HARASS#NOT]] for reference. If you still feel that you're being single out unfairly (I'm assuming that's what you mean by HOUND), then the please to discuss such things is [[:WP:ANI]]; before for doing, though, you probably should take a look at [[:WP:ANIADVICE]]. -- [[User:Marchjuly|Marchjuly]] ([[User talk:Marchjuly|talk]]) 06:20, 14 February 2025 (UTC)

== Deadline for Draft Article I Started? ==

Hello all,
I started a draft article Draft:Josephine Semmes several months ago.  Then my life got very busy and I paused it.  While my life is still very busy, I would like to know when is the deadline for submission.  I seem to recall that the draft will automatically be deleted at some point? How do I find this date?
Thank you very much for your help. [[User:Aurodea108|Aurodea108]] ([[User talk:Aurodea108|talk]]) 22:39, 13 February 2025 (UTC)

:Hello, @[[User:Aurodea108|Aurodea108]]. There is no deadline for submission. If a draft has not been edited in six months, it will be deleted; but you can ask for it to be restored: see [[WP:undeletion|undeletion]]. Alternatively, if you make a minor edit in it as the six month point is approaching, it will reset the clock. [[User:ColinFine|ColinFine]] ([[User talk:ColinFine|talk]]) 23:00, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::Thank you. [[User:Aurodea108|Aurodea108]] ([[User talk:Aurodea108|talk]]) 06:50, 14 February 2025 (UTC)

== sfn errors due to exact date and last name ==

Eh, folks. Can anyone help me to resolve this issue [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbak%27s_invasion_of_Assam#cite_ref-FOOTNOTEPathak200810_9-0]? Basically the sources have indistinguishable date and last name [https://books.google.co.in/books/about/Assam_s_history_and_its_graphics.html?id=MdjO3XVk0MAC&redir_esc=y][https://books.google.co.in/books/about/Assamese_Women_in_Indian_Independence_Mo.html?id=6igd9NaJFlUC&redir_esc=y] therefore it couldn't target to the specific sources. – '''<span style="font-family: Times New Roman;">[[User:Garudam|<span style="color: black;">'''Garuda'''</span>]]</span> '''<sup>[[User talk:Garudam|<span style="color: gray;">'''''Talk!'''''</span>]]</sup> 14:31, 14 February 2025 (UTC)

:Hi, @[[User:Garudam|Garudam]]. There are instructions on how to handle this at [[Help:Shortened footnotes#Linking]]. [[User:StarryGrandma|StarryGrandma]] ([[User talk:StarryGrandma|talk]]) 15:12, 14 February 2025 (UTC)
::Aight, thanks. – '''<span style="font-family: Times New Roman;">[[User:Garudam|<span style="color: black;">'''Garuda'''</span>]]</span> '''<sup>[[User talk:Garudam|<span style="color: gray;">'''''Talk!'''''</span>]]</sup> 16:19, 14 February 2025 (UTC)

== Draft:Finiteness ==

Hi, I am working on Draft:Finiteness, and was recently informed by a reviewer that the article is not sufficiently notable for inclusion in Wikipedia. The reason I started working on the article is because two other editors suggested that it might be a good idea, on the [[Finite]] talk page. [[User:Kevincook13|Kevincook13]] ([[User talk:Kevincook13|talk]]) 16:44, 11 February 2025 (UTC)
:IT may be a good idea, but not what you have created, now declined several times and then rejected. I recommend you ask that the draft be deleted by putting Db-author inside double curly brackets {{  }} at the top. [[User:David notMD|David notMD]] ([[User talk:David notMD|talk]]) 23:16, 11 February 2025 (UTC)
::You also agree that it may be a good idea to have a finiteness article. If it is sufficiently notable for inclusion in Wikipedia, I request that the rejection be withdrawn. [[User:Kevincook13|Kevincook13]] ([[User talk:Kevincook13|talk]]) 15:10, 12 February 2025 (UTC)
:::{{u|Kevincook13}} I did not mean to convey that I personally thought it was a good idea. Given the Rejection, your path going forward is to ask that the current draft be deleted, and start over. Having written that, the editor who rejected it has provided lengthy comments on why it was rejected. Please do not try again unnless you can address all the shortfalls of your draft. [[User:David notMD|David notMD]] ([[User talk:David notMD|talk]]) 11:27, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
:That rejection is ridiculous, and it is possible for an article to be written. However it probably does need to start again from scratch. [[User:Graeme Bartlett|Graeme Bartlett]] ([[User talk:Graeme Bartlett|talk]]) 11:47, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
:The main problem you're running into is [[WP:NOTDICT|Wikipedia is not a dictionary]] -- Wikipedia is supposed to be about specific concepts/things, not words. What you've done at the [[Draft:Finiteness]] page is describe a bunch of different meanings of finiteness (how human life is finite; how numbers are finite; how races are finite) without really talking much about the concept of finiteness. You probably need to choose a specific concept of finiteness (i.e. finiteness in math) and talk about that. [[User:Mrfoogles|Mrfoogles]] ([[User talk:Mrfoogles|talk]]) 17:35, 14 February 2025 (UTC)

== [[Draft:List of Minecraft mobs]] ==

I am working on a draft of an article titled [[List of Minecraft mobs]]. Currently it is only half done. Should i delete the empty rows (the ones with placeholders) or keep them? [[User:Mast303|Mast303]] ([[User talk:Mast303|talk]]) 15:41, 13 February 2025 (UTC)

:It looks like this has been submitted to [[WP:Articles for Creation|Articles for Creation]]. If you would like this to be moved into the encyclopedia (to mainspace) now, I would remove the placeholder rows. However, I suggest that you finish the list first, before asking that it be moved to mainspace. [[User:Toadspike|<span style="color:#21a81e;font-variant: small-caps;font-weight:bold;">'''Toadspike'''</span>]] [[User talk:Toadspike|<span style="color:#21a81e;font-variant: small-caps;font-weight:bold;">[Talk]</span>]] 16:11, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::Fair warning: A very similar list was recently deleted (see [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Minecraft characters|this discussion]]), so it is possible that your AfC submission is declined, or if you move it to mainspace, the list may get deleted. [[User:Toadspike|<span style="color:#21a81e;font-variant: small-caps;font-weight:bold;">'''Toadspike'''</span>]] [[User talk:Toadspike|<span style="color:#21a81e;font-variant: small-caps;font-weight:bold;">[Talk]</span>]] 16:13, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
:This is probably going to be very hard to get in via AFC -- it's controversial whether it's notable or not at all and reviewer are probably going to lean on the side of not letting it in. It probably meets [[WP:NLIST|the list notability guideline]] in that people have discussed the set of Minecraft mobs as a group. But also, it's worth taking a look at [[Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Video_games#Inappropriate_content]], which includes list of ingame concepts -- there are a lot of people who will be, essentially, "This seems like Minecraft wiki content, we can't have it" regardless of policy. The best way to get it through would probably be to focus on commentary of secondary sources on the mobs, rather than the mobs themselves. [[User:Mrfoogles|Mrfoogles]] ([[User talk:Mrfoogles|talk]]) 17:44, 14 February 2025 (UTC)

== article section draft ==

I have created a draft for a taxonomy section for the [[Vespidae]] page as it did not already have one, is there any functionality to submit drafts of page sections for review outside of asking on the talk pages for those articles/associated project pages? [[User:Errantsorbus|Errantsorbus]] ([[User talk:Errantsorbus|talk]]) 12:06, 14 February 2025 (UTC)
:You submitted [[User:Errantsorbus/vespidae taxonomy draft]] as a stand-alone article and it was Declined. The reviewer stated that you should be incorporating this content as a section in  [[Vespidae]] instead. In general, Wikipedia recommends BRD, as in being Bold in your edits, but if Reverted, start a Discussion on the Talk page of the article in an attempt to reach consensus. [[User:David notMD|David notMD]] ([[User talk:David notMD|talk]]) 12:56, 14 February 2025 (UTC)
::ok, thank you. [[User:Errantsorbus|Errantsorbus]] ([[User talk:Errantsorbus|talk]]) 17:56, 14 February 2025 (UTC)

== Where can I find typography nerds to help me? ==

[[File:Severance typography.png|thumb|Comparison of SF Pro Display Semi-Bold]]
Hello!

I currently want to vectorize the ''[[Severance (TV series)|Severance]]'' logo, and to do that I find the font. I know Apple's favorite font is [[San Francisco (sans-serif typeface)|San Francisco]], and I thought it looked similar, so I compared SF Pro Display Semi-Bold with it, and it was very similar, but not an exact match. Perhaps it's a bespoke variant.

Does anybody know where I can go to identify this font? I know [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Typography|WikiProject Typography]] exists, but it's only semi-active... Should I ask there? <span style="border-radius:99q;padding:0 7q;background:#103;border:3q solid #FBF">[[User:QuickQuokka|<span style="color:#FBF">'''QuickQuokka'''</span>]]</span> <sup>[⁠[[User talk:QuickQuokka|talk]] • [[Special:Contribs/QuickQuokka|contribs]]]</sup> 15:33, 14 February 2025 (UTC)
:Wait, I think I found it's more similar to SF Pro text, however it's still different... <span style="border-radius:99q;padding:0 7q;background:#103;border:3q solid #FBF">[[User:QuickQuokka|<span style="color:#FBF">'''QuickQuokka'''</span>]]</span> <sup>[⁠[[User talk:QuickQuokka|talk]] • [[Special:Contribs/QuickQuokka|contribs]]]</sup> 15:38, 14 February 2025 (UTC)
::@[[User:QuickQuokka|QuickQuokka]] To vectorize it I don't think you need to identify the font; for simple text a bitmap trace should be easy to do. I'll do it. [[User:Cremastra|Cremastra]] ([[User talk:Cremastra|talk]]) 16:20, 14 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Wait. Let me provide you with [https://is1-ssl.mzstatic.com/image/thumb/EoWjlf9EmMs5QpTaeSw0lQ/3840x1040.webp an HQ version] of it. Its copyright is PD text + trademark. <span style="border-radius:99q;padding:0 7q;background:#103;border:3q solid #FBF">[[User:QuickQuokka|<span style="color:#FBF">'''QuickQuokka'''</span>]]</span> <sup>[⁠[[User talk:QuickQuokka|talk]] • [[Special:Contribs/QuickQuokka|contribs]]]</sup> 16:22, 14 February 2025 (UTC)
:::{{courtesy ping|Cremastra}}. Forgot to ping you! <span style="border-radius:99q;padding:0 7q;background:#103;border:3q solid #FBF">[[User:QuickQuokka|<span style="color:#FBF">'''QuickQuokka'''</span>]]</span> <sup>[⁠[[User talk:QuickQuokka|talk]] • [[Special:Contribs/QuickQuokka|contribs]]]</sup> 16:23, 14 February 2025 (UTC)
::::Hm, I think that version will be harder because it's white. Is [[:File:Severance logo.svg]] okay, or is it too small? [[User:Cremastra|Cremastra]] ([[User talk:Cremastra|talk]]) 16:28, 14 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::{{re|Cremastra}} I think I can do it too... I will use Inkscape's bitmap tracing. I'll create 2 paths, one with smoothing and one without, and basically Frankenstein them together to get a cleaner result. <span style="border-radius:99q;padding:0 7q;background:#103;border:3q solid #FBF">[[User:QuickQuokka|<span style="color:#FBF">'''QuickQuokka'''</span>]]</span> <sup>[⁠[[User talk:QuickQuokka|talk]] • [[Special:Contribs/QuickQuokka|contribs]]]</sup> 16:32, 14 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::Sounds good. [[User:Cremastra|Cremastra]] ([[User talk:Cremastra|talk]]) 16:39, 14 February 2025 (UTC)
:It's a custom-made font, not one.  From one of the creators:  "I drew a custom font inspired by Helvetica and Akzidenz and the dozens – hundreds? – of neo-grotesques that have been released in the decades since they appeared, but with its own slightly odd combination of details and characteristics." https://www.artofthetitle.com/title/severance/ [[User:Just Al|Just Al]] ([[User talk:Just Al|talk]]) 18:12, 14 February 2025 (UTC)
::{{re|Just Al}} So it is a bespoke font! Anyways, as you can see in the image, it bears a striking resemblance to the San Francisco typeface. <span style="border-radius:99q;padding:0 7q;background:#103;border:3q solid #FBF">[[User:QuickQuokka|<span style="color:#FBF">'''QuickQuokka'''</span>]]</span> <sup>[⁠[[User talk:QuickQuokka|talk]] • [[Special:Contribs/QuickQuokka|contribs]]]</sup> 18:15, 14 February 2025 (UTC)
::I've reached out to Apple, CHIPS, and Teddy Blanks asking whether they could provide me with official vectorized versions of the logo. <span style="border-radius:99q;padding:0 7q;background:#103;border:3q solid #FBF">[[User:QuickQuokka|<span style="color:#FBF">'''QuickQuokka'''</span>]]</span> <sup>[⁠[[User talk:QuickQuokka|talk]] • [[Special:Contribs/QuickQuokka|contribs]]]</sup> 18:23, 14 February 2025 (UTC)

== Curious about MediaWiki ==

Hello!

I've noticed that recently, I've been getting notifications when people reply to me even when they don't {{tl|ping}} me. What changed in MediaWiki to enable this? I really like this change, because sometimes I forget to ping people too!

Thanks, <span style="border-radius:99q;padding:0 7q;background:#103;border:3q solid #FBF">[[User:QuickQuokka|<span style="color:#FBF">'''QuickQuokka'''</span>]]</span> <sup>[⁠[[User talk:QuickQuokka|talk]] • [[Special:Contribs/QuickQuokka|contribs]]]</sup> 17:34, 14 February 2025 (UTC)
:Hi [[User:QuickQuokka|QuickQuokka]]. Please always include an example. Maybe they did ping you according to the notification rules which require a user page link (my post is an example) but not any template like {{tl|ping}}. You might also have subscribed to the section. Then it should be listed at [[Special:TopicSubscriptions]]. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 19:43, 14 February 2025 (UTC)
::{{re|PrimeHunter}} Ahh, that's what that is! Got it! <span style="border-radius:99q;padding:0 7q;background:#103;border:3q solid #FBF">[[User:QuickQuokka|<span style="color:#FBF">'''QuickQuokka'''</span>]]</span> <sup>[⁠[[User talk:QuickQuokka|talk]] • [[Special:Contribs/QuickQuokka|contribs]]]</sup> 19:48, 14 February 2025 (UTC)

== Is this ref code supposed to be visible? ==

I came across an article for a publication titled [[PinkNews]] (left-wing news publication that largely covers LGBTQ+ issues and British parliamentary politics). The introductory paragraphs discussing the subject of the article are full of weird formatting, including a large chunk of italicized text that doesn't seem to have a reason to be like this (I think it was intended to be a direct quote, possibly...??), and a "</ref>" tag visible to non-editors in the text of the published article. I haven't read the rest of the article so I don't know if this occurs throughout the article or just in the introductory paragraphs, looks like maybe the wagging tail of a citation that got lost. I'm still a bit of a novice so I wanted to ask some more seasoned editors - is the text supposed to look this way, or does it need fixed? To be honest I'm reluctant to make edits because the topic of the article is currently the subject of controversy due to a scandal that I won't get into, but if the text is supposed to be formatted differently, I would like to help improve the readability. I just want to be absolutely sure first. I have no desire to add or remove anything from the article, I only want to fix the text display if it should be fixed. [[User:TradingSpousesWelsch|TradingSpousesWelsch]] ([[User talk:TradingSpousesWelsch|talk]]) 22:08, 14 February 2025 (UTC)

:Hi, thanks for reaching out. It looks like these issues were introduced in a string of edits today [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=PinkNews&diff=1275731851&oldid=1265084989]. I'll take a look. [[User:Perception312|Perception312]] ([[User talk:Perception312|talk]]) 22:15, 14 February 2025 (UTC)

== Inspiration ==

So I've kinda burned myself out. I don't know what articles I want to make and drafts that I've put my time into simply don't have enough coverage online for me to research and put into the article. Any ideas of how to enjoy editing again? [[User:Vestrix|Vestrix]] ([[User talk:Vestrix|talk]]) 20:19, 14 February 2025 (UTC)
:Hello @[[User:Vestrix|Vestrix]]. You can always take a break from editing at any time and come back when the burn-out is gone. See [[WP:WIKIBREAK]] for templates that alert editors to your wikibreak. [[User:Tarlby|<span style="background-color:black;color:cyan;font-family:Comic Sans MS;">''Tarlby''</span>]] <sup>([[User talk:Tarlby|''t'']]) ([[Special:Contributions/Tarlby|''c'']])</sup> 20:24, 14 February 2025 (UTC)
::Ok, thank you! [[User:Vestrix|Vestrix]] ([[User talk:Vestrix|talk]]) 22:52, 14 February 2025 (UTC)

== Getting an article assessed ==

How do I get an article assessed, specifically [[Leon O. Morgan]], among others? [[User:Sushidude21!|Sushidude21!]] ([[User talk:Sushidude21!|talk]]) 23:54, 13 February 2025 (UTC)

:hi @[[User:Sushidude21!|Sushidude21!]] and welcome to the Teahouse! you can request for an assessment of an article to A, B, C, Start- or Stub- class in [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Wikipedia/Assessment#Requesting an assessment|Requesting an assessment]]. FA or GA assessments are located over at [[WP:Featured article candidates|Featured article candidates]] or [[WP:Good article nominations|Good article nominations]] respectively. happy editing! &#128156; <span style="border-radius:4px;background:#edf">&nbsp;[[User:Melecie|<span style="color:#471a7a">'''mel'''ecie</span>]]&nbsp;</span> [[User talk:Melecie|<span style="color:#471a7a">talk</span>]] - 01:33, 14 February 2025 (UTC)
::{{u|Sushidude21!}} If by "assessed" you mean improved, you and other editors are free to continue to work on the article. In time, an editor other than you may decide that the tags at the top can be removed as no longer applied. Not a requirement, but I suggest that you change Publications to Selected publications and limit the list to no more than ten (Wikipedia articles are not CVs). [[User:David notMD|David notMD]] ([[User talk:David notMD|talk]]) 13:02, 14 February 2025 (UTC)
:::How would I go about picking these 10? [[User:Sushidude21!|Sushidude21!]] ([[User talk:Sushidude21!|talk]]) 23:15, 14 February 2025 (UTC)

== Advice ==

{{Courtesy link|Syriac Orthodox Church#Jurisdiction of the patriarchate}}

Hi Teahouse, I am in a little bit of a conundrum. I and @[[User:Warriorglance|Warriorglance]] have been improving the article to hopefully reach [[Wikipedia:GA|GA]]. The above linked section is a mess. [[User:CF-501 Falcon/sandbox2#Jurisdiction of the patriarchate|This]] is the best we have come up with. If we table all of the (arch)dioceses and vicariates it will take up a significant amount of space. What would be the best solution? Thank you, [[User:CF-501 Falcon|CF-501 Falcon]] ([[User talk:CF-501 Falcon|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/CF-501_Falcon|contribs]]) 21:40, 14 February 2025 (UTC)
:[[User:CF-501 Falcon|CF-501 Falcon]], very likely I'm even less than averagely informed about or interested in religions, but for whatever reason I don't even understand the heading "Jurisdiction of the patriarchate". I imagine that a quarter of an hour of reading around would educate me, but even then I probably wouldn't know what about it was significant and what wasn't. My guess is that few other editors of the Teahouse would be much better informed than I am. The article's talk page lists at the top the "WikiProjects" to which the article is thought to be relevant. I suggest that you look at the talk page of each of these, and post the question above to the one talk page among these that looks the liveliest (or the least moribund). Feel free to link from the other WikiProjects' talk pages to your newly posted question, but avoid doing so in any way that risks setting off a discussion in a third place (if we count this thread as the first). -- [[User:Hoary|Hoary]] ([[User talk:Hoary|talk]]) 22:34, 14 February 2025 (UTC)
::@[[User:Hoary|Hoary]], Thank you. "Jurisdiction of the patriarchate" means the area and people that the church’s leader, the [[Patriarch of Antioch|Patriarch]], is responsible for. It covers all the churches, communities, and regions (both historical and new ones formed by migration) that fall under his authority.
::I have posted at the [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Christianity/Noticeboard|WikiProject Christianity/Noticeboard]]. I will wait and see if anybody responds there or here (3 threads would get messy). Again, Thank you. Have a great day! [[User:CF-501 Falcon|CF-501 Falcon]] ([[User talk:CF-501 Falcon|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/CF-501_Falcon|contribs]]) 23:30, 14 February 2025 (UTC)

== Keep me logged in for up to one year ==

I often log in and log out each and every time that I choose to do some editing, but I see there is an option to "Keep me logged in for up to one year". I am just curious, but why would anyone choose this option? Or conversely, why would anyone not choose this option? Why is it limited to "one year" and not simply "Keep me logged in until I sign out" then if its truly just a long-term option? 

Curious how many of you choose this or are even aware of it? [[User:Iljhgtn|Iljhgtn]] ([[User talk:Iljhgtn|talk]]) 22:51, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
:Keeping logged in saves time and effort, and may also log the user in to the partner projects (eg Wikiversity). I suppose if someone else could be using that computer, you should log out every time. A cookie is supplied to last a year. But on occasion everyone is logged out because of some security issue, so logging in happens more than once a year in reality. [[User:Graeme Bartlett|Graeme Bartlett]] ([[User talk:Graeme Bartlett|talk]]) 23:31, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
:I've heard other websites use a similar function. In my opinion, I'm pretty sure it's to prevent accounts being hacked into when the owner can no longer keep it in check. [[User:Tarlby|<span style="background-color:black;color:cyan;font-family:Comic Sans MS;">''Tarlby''</span>]] <sup>([[User talk:Tarlby|''t'']]) ([[Special:Contributions/Tarlby|''c'']])</sup> 23:32, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::I live alone and no one else uses my computer, so I stay logged into everything that isn't related to financial matters. Most days I check my Watchlist to see if any articles I have a special interest in have been edited, plus I check to see what's being asked at the Teahouse. I like the ease of simply bringing up Wikipedia and clicking a few tabs to get to what I want to see.[[User:Karenthewriter|Karenthewriter]] ([[User talk:Karenthewriter|talk]]) 13:17, 14 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Right so why limit it to a year in that case? It should be changed to "Keep me logged in until I log out." [[User:Iljhgtn|Iljhgtn]] ([[User talk:Iljhgtn|talk]]) 16:05, 14 February 2025 (UTC)
::::{{re| Iljhgtn}} Eventually expiring logins is a [[cybersecurity]] best practice, to lessen scenarios like, someone forgetting they're logged in on a device which they then transfer to someone else who they've now unintentionally given access to their account. Note, expirations for logins on websites are actually "kept on your end" rather than that of the website you're accessing, by setting an expiration date in the login [[Web cookie]] in your browser. You can change the expiry if you want by using a [[browser extension]] that lets you modify cookies and setting the cookie to expire whenever you wish (including "never"), though for "better safe than sorry" reasons I don't recommend it. (In any case, sooner or later though it may take some years, some software change on Wikipedia's end is likely to "forcibly" expire past logins and require logging in afresh.) --[[User:Slowking Man|Slowking Man]] ([[User talk:Slowking Man|talk]]) 05:04, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
::::I think your questions are outside of the purview of the Teahouse, as we are here to talk about more easier questions than to talk about technical questions. You could as somewhere else like [[WP:VP/T]] or at [[mw:|MediaWiki]]. But, {{u|Slowking Man}}'s answer is probably best. <span style="font-family:Arial;background-color:#fff;border:2px dashed#69c73e">[[User:Cowboygilbert|<span style="color:#3f6b39">'''Cowboygilbert'''</span>]] - [[User talk:Cowboygilbert|<span style="color:#d12667"> (talk) ♥</span>]]</span> 05:10, 15 February 2025 (UTC)

== Draft:Pilot (The Flash, 1990 TV series) ==

I had created an article about the first episode of [[The Flash (1990 TV series)|the 1990 Flash television series]], and submitted it on [[Wikipedia]], but was declined because the submission was not adequately supported by reliable sources. Why was my article declined? [[User:Chance997|Chance997]] ([[User talk:Chance997|talk]]) 21:06, 14 February 2025 (UTC)

:Because the draft has zero citations. Please add citations to increase your chances of the draft being accepted. [[User:Ivebeenhacked|Hacked]] ([[User talk:Ivebeenhacked|Talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Ivebeenhacked|Contribs]]) 21:11, 14 February 2025 (UTC)
::So, I have to add some citations into the draft so that the article could be accepted?  [[User:Chance997|Chance997]] ([[User talk:Chance997|talk]]) 21:25, 14 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Yes, the draft will definitely have a better chance of being accepted. [[User:Ivebeenhacked|Hacked]] ([[User talk:Ivebeenhacked|Talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Ivebeenhacked|Contribs]]) 21:28, 14 February 2025 (UTC)
:Writing a draft without first finding suitable sources (which meet all the criteria of [[WP:42]]) is like building a house without first building the foundations or even surveying the site to check that it is suitable to build on. You will inevitably have to go back and cite sources, and probably rebuild much of your draft, because if information in your draft cannot be verified from a reliable published source, the information must be removed; and for the bulk of the information, the source must be wholly [[WP:IS|independent]] of the subject of the article. See [[WP:backwards|backwards]]. [[User:ColinFine|ColinFine]] ([[User talk:ColinFine|talk]]) 21:47, 14 February 2025 (UTC)
::I don't know how to add citations into the draft. Is there like any instructions that come along with them? [[User:Chance997|Chance997]] ([[User talk:Chance997|talk]]) 00:01, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
:::@[[User:Chance997|Chance997]] See [[Help:Referencing for beginners]]. But in a nutshell, you can click the cite button on the top-right corner of the toolbar if you are using the [[Help:Visual Editor|Visual Editor]] '''[[User:TNM101|<span style="color:red;">TNM</span><span style="color:black;">101</span>]]''' ([[User talk:TNM101|<span style="color:blue;">chat</span>]]) 05:16, 15 February 2025 (UTC)

== Help on creating a disambiguation page ==

I'd like to add a disambiguation page to [[Nine Circles]] mainly because Zobros created a song called "Nine Circles". [[User:Srihan123|Srihan123]] ([[User talk:Srihan123|talk]]) 06:22, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
:There is no article titled "Zobros", {{U|Srihan123}}. Are you intending to create an article about it/them? -- [[User:Hoary|Hoary]] ([[User talk:Hoary|talk]]) 07:31, 15 February 2025 (UTC)

== Citation ==

Hello.I am unable to create a citation. [[User:Gamerboykarl|Gamerboykarl]] ([[User talk:Gamerboykarl|talk]]) 06:24, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
:[[User:Gamerboykarl|Gamerboykarl]], how to cite? Please go to [[Help:Introduction]] and click on either the link to "Referencing" under "Source editor", or the link to "Referencing" under "Visual editor", depending of course on which of the two you use. (If you use the "Wikipedia app", I have no idea, sorry. But from what little I've heard about it, I suggest that you instead use either the "source" or the "visual" editor.) -- [[User:Hoary|Hoary]] ([[User talk:Hoary|talk]]) 06:37, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
::ok bro. thanks for help, though it is pretty confusing [[User:Gamerboykarl|Gamerboykarl]] ([[User talk:Gamerboykarl|talk]]) 06:43, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
:::At any article, click on Edit at the top. This will show how references are formatted. You could copy a section with a few references into your Sandbox, then replace the content with your refs content. [[User:David notMD|David notMD]] ([[User talk:David notMD|talk]]) 07:14, 15 February 2025 (UTC)

:::[[User:Gamerboykarl|Gamerboykarl]], let's look at the article [[Nine Circles]] (as it's mentioned in the thread immediately above). The sourcing is rather feeble, but for what each reference is worth, it's formatted more or less competently. Sample: 
::::<cite><nowiki>...met Lidia Fiala, who already wrote poems and lyrics since she was 15 years old.<ref name=biography>{{cite web|url=http://home.arcor.de/nine.circles/biography.htm |title=Nine Circles Biography|publisher=Nine Circles |accessdate=2013-10-06}}</ref></nowiki></cite>
:::(Within that, "publisher" had better be "website", I think. The far greater problem is that so much about Nine Circles in their Wikipedia article depends on what was said by Nine Circles themselves. This of course isn't at all an independent source, and thus (i) may be promotional rather than straightforwardly informative, and (ii) doesn't help to show the ''notability'' of Nine Circles.) -- [[User:Hoary|Hoary]] ([[User talk:Hoary|talk]]) 07:43, 15 February 2025 (UTC)

== How do I remove this copyright violation? ==

This article ([[Allan Kardec]]) has been taken almost word for word from https://www.discoverypublisher.com/authors/allan-kardec/. How do I fix this? I pressed the edit button but I just don't know how to deal with copyright violations like this. Do I just start paraphrasing everything? [[User:BadEditor93|BadEditor93]] ([[User talk:BadEditor93|talk]]) 13:50, 14 February 2025 (UTC)

:@[[User:BadEditor93|BadEditor93]] Looking at the age of the additions, the large majority of the article was made prior to the creation of that site ([https://websiteage.org estimated as November 2019]), as such it's more the site copied Wikipedia and called it a day. Content not listed as copyright on that page (such as a small portion of the lead) come from yesterday. [[User:CommissarDoggo|<b style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#fc1008">Commissar</b><b style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#0363ff">Doggo</b>]]''[[User talk:CommissarDoggo|<sup style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#0363ff">Talk?</sup>]]'' 13:59, 14 February 2025 (UTC)
::As an aside, [[WP:WHOWROTETHAT]] is a really good tool for sussing this sort of thing out. High copyright levels are generally attributed to a single editor over maybe one or two edits, whereas in this case WHOWROTETHAT showed that many editors added over the course of many years. [[User:CommissarDoggo|<b style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#fc1008">Commissar</b><b style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#0363ff">Doggo</b>]]''[[User talk:CommissarDoggo|<sup style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#0363ff">Talk?</sup>]]'' 14:06, 14 February 2025 (UTC)
::Wow, I did not notice that! Thank you for all the helpful replies. So, should I remove the article from the category and ask the site who took the information to also put it under the same copyright licence as any other information from Wikipedia? [[User:BadEditor93|BadEditor93]] ([[User talk:BadEditor93|talk]]) 16:33, 14 February 2025 (UTC)
:::@[[User:BadEditor93|BadEditor93]] I wouldn't bother in the latter, the chances of them responding are low and I'm equally as cynical of them noting anywhere that a decent amount of the info is copied from Wikipedia. As to the prior, I personally removed the [[WP:CLOP]] tag earlier. [[User:CommissarDoggo|<b style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#fc1008">Commissar</b><b style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#0363ff">Doggo</b>]]''[[User talk:CommissarDoggo|<sup style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#0363ff">Talk?</sup>]]'' 18:34, 14 February 2025 (UTC)
::::Alright, thanks. [[User:BadEditor93|BadEditor93]] ([[User talk:BadEditor93|talk]]) 07:47, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
:[[WP:CP]] is where copyvios can be listed when you're not sure how to clean them up. [[User:Cremastra|Cremastra]] ([[User talk:Cremastra|talk]]) 14:51, 14 February 2025 (UTC)

== Accidental Edit ==

Hello. I was adding redirects for certain Wikipedia pages, but then I realized I made an accidental redirect for the wrong page. How do I fix this? Any help is appreciated. Thanks! [[User:AyoWth|AyoWth]] ([[User talk:AyoWth|talk]]) 08:47, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
:I've tagged [[Dona Ana County, Texas]] with a speedy deletion [[WP:G6]] for you. [[User:Meters|Meters]] ([[User talk:Meters|talk]]) 08:54, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
:You could also have just blanked it, or tagged it as [[WP:G7]]. [[User:Meters|Meters]] ([[User talk:Meters|talk]]) 08:57, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
:Hmm... if what you meant to do was instead create a redirect from [[Dona Ana County, New Mexico]] to [[Doña Ana County, New Mexico]], that redirect already exists. Next time please link to the article or edit in question. See [[H:WIKILINK]]  and [[WP:D&L]] [[User:Meters|Meters]] ([[User talk:Meters|talk]]) 09:10, 15 February 2025 (UTC)

== Single source issues ==
{{Resolved}}
{{Courtesy link|Ish Kevin}}<br>
I've been working on this article for a bit now and I've noticed an emerging problem with the article largely relying on a single source, [[The New Times (Rwanda)|The New Times]]. It does meet [[WP:GNG]] with significant coverage from [[The Native]] and Pan African Music and also [[WP:NMUSICBIO]] under criteria 7, as he is cited as the leader of the Kinyatrap movement (a local rap scene in Rwanda), but nearly all news articles about Ish Kevin come from The New Times, specifically the author Emmanuel Gatera. The article has become overly reliant one it for career information, and I'm concerned it may destabilize one of the content policies such as [[WP:verifiability|verifiability]] or [[WP:neutral point of view|neutral point of view]]. Can someone offer me advice on this? If so, it would be highly appreciated. —[[User: Sparkle &#38; Fade|''Sparkle and Fade'']] ([[User_talk:Sparkle &#38; Fade|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Sparkle &#38; Fade|contributions]]) 07:55, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
:Hello, {{u|Sparkle &#38; Fade}}. Although Gatera is cited repeatedly in that article, I also see four other authors cited. I am not familiar with the topic area, but it seems to me that notability is established by citing five different music writers, and it is not surprising that in a relatively small country like Rwanda, Gatera would be, in effect, the "world's foremost authority" on Kevin. [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 09:25, 15 February 2025 (UTC)

== Sockpuppetry ==
Hey, need checkusers help, i see some suspicious activities associated with this user -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:JesusisGreat7, The edits seems to be copyrighted and incidents of Sockpuppetry have been noticed!</bdi>  [[User:Christthesaviour|Christthesaviour]] ([[User talk:Christthesaviour|talk]]) 11:29, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
:Why then, {{U|Christthesaviour}}, post ''specifics'' of these "suspicious activities associated with this user" to [[WP:ANI]]. But expect scrutiny of your own (meagre and strange) list of contributions. -- [[User:Hoary|Hoary]] ([[User talk:Hoary|talk]]) 12:06, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
::Your attempt to start a sock puppet investigation at [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/JesusisGreat7]] reads that you are accusing your account of being a sock of JesusisGreat7. [[User:David notMD|David notMD]] ([[User talk:David notMD|talk]]) 12:40, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
:::the account associated to be a sockpuppet of is [[User:Whatif222]] [[User:Christthesaviour|Christthesaviour]] ([[User talk:Christthesaviour|talk]]) 12:53, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
::::[[User:Whatif222]] was indefinitely blocked on 30 November 2024 and [[User:JesusisGreat7]] started editing on the same date. Is there other evidence such as both accounts having edited the same articles, that raises a suspicion of a block evasion? [[User:David notMD|David notMD]] ([[User talk:David notMD|talk]]) 13:02, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::[[John Cameron Lowrie]], I found the incident where both the suspected accounts have edited the article, seems like a block evasion, how can both the users get the same article for editing?? [[User:Christthesaviour|Christthesaviour]] ([[User talk:Christthesaviour|talk]]) 13:09, 15 February 2025 (UTC)

The SPI was closed with a finding of insufficient evidence of sock puppet or block evasion. [[User:David notMD|David notMD]] ([[User talk:David notMD|talk]]) 16:19, 15 February 2025 (UTC)

== No article about Barron Trump ==

First of all, not entirely sure if this is a question I should be asking here on the talk page for [[Family of Donald Trump]], but why doesn't Wikipedia have an article about Barron Trump, when we have articles about all of Trump's other kids? [[User:RedactedHumanoid|RedactedHumanoid]] ([[User talk:RedactedHumanoid|talk]]) 20:22, 15 February 2025 (UTC)

:Notability is [[WP:NOTINHERITED|not inherited]]. Barron needs to be [[WP:BIO|notable]] on his own. There is [[Draft:Barron Trump]]. [[User:331dot|331dot]] ([[User talk:331dot|talk]]) 20:35, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
::Oh yeah I forgot about [[WP:NOTINHERITED]], thanks for reminding me. [[User:RedactedHumanoid|RedactedHumanoid]] ([[User talk:RedactedHumanoid|talk]]) 20:46, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
:You may also find [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Barron Trump]], [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Barron Trump (2nd nomination)]], and [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Barron Trump (3rd nomination)]] (most recent one from last June which closed as redirect) useful for reference. [[User:Skynxnex|Skynxnex]] ([[User talk:Skynxnex|talk]]) 22:14, 15 February 2025 (UTC)

== My Draft Page ==

I made a page(More like Draft) named Most Viewed NCS Songs and submitted it for review but it was declined. I don't really know what to do since I am new here . [[User:PathHigh|PathHigh]] ([[User talk:PathHigh|talk]]) 23:13, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
:[[Draft:Most Viewed NCS Songs]] is wgatr tgus is aboyut. [[User:David notMD|David notMD]] ([[User talk:David notMD|talk]]) 23:28, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
:Hello, @[[User:PathHigh|PathHigh]], and welcome to the Teahouse. 
:In order to write an article about "Most viewed" anything you will need to start with several reliable published sources each of which discusses the topic of "most viewed" whatever. Simply listing the items and numbers is [[WP:original research|original research]], even if your sources were [[WP:reliable|reliable]], and few or none of yours are. (Specifically, Wikis such as fandom - and Wikipedia - are almost never acceptable as sources because they are user-generated. And most YouTube videos are not reliable - see [[WP:YOUTUBE]].
:{{User:ColinFine/PractiseFirst}} [[User:ColinFine|ColinFine]] ([[User talk:ColinFine|talk]]) 23:29, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
::FYI: NCS stands for NoCopyrightSounds, a British record label that releases royalty-free electronic dance music. As CF states, your making a list ranked by views and likes is original research, and your 'references' to YouTubes of the music do not confirm any ranking. I strongly recommend you request the draft be deleted by putting Db-author inside double curly brackets {{ }} at the top. [[User:David notMD|David notMD]] ([[User talk:David notMD|talk]]) 23:35, 15 February 2025 (UTC)

== Guard Brigades of the HVO ==

Hi, in the “Guard Brigades” section of the [[Croatian Defence Council|HVO]], there are 4 links to pages that don’t exist on English Wikipedia, but do on Croatian Wikipedia. These links are: https://hr.wikipedia.org/wiki/4._gardijska_brigada_%22Sinovi_Posavine%22 4th Guard Brigade “Sons of Posavina”,
https://hr.wikipedia.org/wiki/3._gardijska_brigada_Jastrebovi 3rd Guard Brigade “Hawks”,
https://hr.wikipedia.org/wiki/2._gardijska_brigada_HVO 2nd Guard Brigade “Snakelike”,
and https://hr.wikipedia.org/wiki/1._gardijska_brigada_Ante_Bruno_Bu%C5%A1i%C4%87 1st Guard Brigade “Ante Bruno Bušić”

If someone could link these links to the Guard Brigades section, I’d really appreciate it.

[[User:OSHAViolation|OSHAViolation]] ([[User talk:OSHAViolation|talk]]) 00:06, 16 February 2025 (UTC)
:{{ping|OSHAViolation}} It looks like an IP account tried to link to the corresponding Croatian Wikipedia articles for those subject, but did so incorrectly; another editor seems to have misunderstood what the IP wanted to do and reverted the IP. You can re-add the links yourself by following the guidance given in [[:WP:ILL]] and using the template {{tlx|ill}}. The basic syntax is <code><nowiki>{{ill|English Wikipedia name|two-letter language code|Croatian Wikipedia article name}}</nowiki></code>.  For reference, the two-letter language code for Croation Wikipedia is "hr". If an article with the same English Wikipedia name already exists, you will need to [[:WP:DAB|disambiguate]] the English Wikipedia article name you want to use and then use the parameter {{para|lt}} (this is explained on the "ill" template's documentation page) for the English Wikipedia link name you want readers to see; if you don't do this, the link will go to the existing Wikipedia article with the same name and not the corresponding Croatian Wikipedia article.-- [[User:Marchjuly|Marchjuly]] ([[User talk:Marchjuly|talk]]) 00:56, 16 February 2025 (UTC)
:{{ping|Dieter Lloyd Wexler}} Just for reference, the edits you reverted [[:Special:diff/Dieter Lloyd Wexler/1275941409|here]] [[:WP:VAN#NOT|weren't really vandalism]]; they appear to be a good-faith attempt at trying to cross wiki-link to corresponding articles of another language Wikipedia. -- [[User:Marchjuly|Marchjuly]] ([[User talk:Marchjuly|talk]]) 00:56, 16 February 2025 (UTC)

== My Draft Article Was Published On Wikitia.com By One Of Their Editors, What Do I Do? ==

I started working on my first article here, Draft: Josephine Semmes, last summer.  I had to suspend work on it and only just got back to it within the last couple of days. (I've just resubmitted it.) I see that in the meantime, one of the "verified editors" at wikitia.com, User:MatthewSchwab, copied my draft wholesale (replete with TODOs) and published it as an article there. Besides the lack of credit to the actual editor (in this case, myself), the whole edit history is missing. The claim that the article is by a "verified editor" there is also meaningless. Is this kind of thing the usual practice of that website? What do Wikipedia editors do in such cases? [[User:Aurodea108|Aurodea108]] ([[User talk:Aurodea108|talk]]) 00:15, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
:[[User:Aurodea108|Aurodea108]], there's [[Wikipedia:Standard CC BY-SA violation letter|a guide on how to contact people who have used Wikipedia's content without proper attribution]].<span id="LunaEclipse:1739580993151:WikipediaFTTCLNTeahouse" class="FTTCmt"> —&nbsp;[[User:LunaEclipse|<span style="color: purple;">🌙'''Eclipse'''</span>]] (she/they/it/other [[neopronouns|neos]] • [[User talk:LunaEclipse|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/LunaEclipse|edits]])  00:56, 15 February 2025 (UTC)</span>
::@[[User:LunaEclipse|LunaEclipse]] Thank you for your response. I had overlooked the following text at a smaller size at the bottom of the page:
::"This article "Josephine Semmes" is from Wikipedia. The list of its authors can be seen in its historical. Articles taken from Draft Namespace on Wikipedia could be accessed on Wikipedia's Draft Namespace."
::In the footer of the page it says "Content is available under Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike. Some of Wikitia's pages are sourced from Wikipedia.org's Mainspace and Draftspace. Wikitia is not affiliated to Wikimedia Foundation, unless otherwise noted."
::It appears then that perhaps I was too hasty, and that publication is in compliance. [[User:Aurodea108|Aurodea108]] ([[User talk:Aurodea108|talk]]) 02:13, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Makes sense. I wasn't familiar with the website you were talking about, but all is good. They attributed your work.<span id="LunaEclipse:1739585955087:WikipediaFTTCLNTeahouse" class="FTTCmt"> —&nbsp;[[User:LunaEclipse|<span style="color: purple;">🌙'''Eclipse'''</span>]] (she/they/it/other [[neopronouns|neos]] • [[User talk:LunaEclipse|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/LunaEclipse|edits]])  02:19, 15 February 2025 (UTC)</span>
::::@[[User:Aurodea108|Aurodea108]] There are over 700 current [[Wikipedia:Mirrors and forks|mirrors and forks]] of Wikipedia, as explained at that link. Some don't follow the rules of our [[creative commons]] license but many do. There were even sites like [[deletionpedia]] which deliberately copied material that we deleted as unsuitable. [[User:Michael D. Turnbull|Mike Turnbull]] ([[User talk:Michael D. Turnbull|talk]]) 12:49, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:Michael D. Turnbull|Michael D. Turnbull]] Ah yes, now I understand. Thank you both. [[User:Aurodea108|Aurodea108]] ([[User talk:Aurodea108|talk]]) 04:30, 16 February 2025 (UTC)

== Redirecting  ==

I am thinking about redirecting the title [[Administrative geography of the Isles of Scilly]] to a section in the article [[Isles of Scilly]]. I have looked over 3 sections that I could redirect this title to, including to another Wikipedia page.

One of the three is [[Isles of Scilly#Local government|the Local government section of Isles of Scilly]]. The reason is because it links to administrative geography and talks about governance. 

Another is [[Isles of Scilly#Administration|the Administration section of Isles of Scilly]], which I made myself. The reason is because it talks about the administration and the status and council. That section is not very long, I do not expect people to expand it to consider this redirect, but this is just a suggestion.

Another is the [[Council of the Isles of Scilly]] article. The reason is because the entire article is based on the administrative geography of the Isles of Scilly.

These are all sections and articles that are worth redirecting this title. I await your opinion. [[User:FeistyRooster|FeistyRooster]] ([[User talk:FeistyRooster|talk]]) 14:28, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
:{{reply to|FeistyRooster}} Thanks for your question. It is up to you, but my recommendation is to redirect to [[Isles of Scilly#Government]]. Looking through this section of the article, I can see that multiple subsections within this section have information that could be judged as relating to administrative geography. This is just my suggestion though, totally fine if you think differently. [[User:Redtree21|Redtree21]] ([[User talk:Redtree21|talk]]) 15:07, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
::@[[User:Redtree21|Redtree21]]: Thank you for your suggestion. I do not mind any of the three choices so I will go ahead and propose a redirect. Thank you once again. [[User:FeistyRooster|FeistyRooster]] ([[User talk:FeistyRooster|talk]]) 15:23, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
:::{{reply to|FeistyRooster}} No problems at all, very happy to help. [[User:Redtree21|Redtree21]] ([[User talk:Redtree21|talk]]) 05:06, 16 February 2025 (UTC)

== Article Approval  ==

{{courtesy link|Draft:King Group Hospitality}}

I am trying to get this live but it was rejected. wanted to understand why and if anyone can help me figure  [[User:Kenjal93|Kenjal93]] ([[User talk:Kenjal93|talk]]) 07:10, 16 February 2025 (UTC)

:I've responded to this user on [[WP:IRC/wikipedia-en-help|IRC]]; the draft is promotional in tone and the sourcing is terrible, with the lion's share of it failing [[WP:CORPDEPTH]]. —[[User:Jéské Couriano|<i style="color: #1E90FF;">Jéské Couriano</i>]] [[User talk:Jéské Couriano|<span style="color: #228B22">v^&lowbar;^v</span>]] <sup><small>[[User:Jéské Couriano/AG|threads]] [[User:Jéské Couriano/Decode|critiques]]</small></sup> 07:15, 16 February 2025 (UTC)
::Actualy, declined (twice) which is not as severe as rejected, but the draft is so peppered with promotional wording that it has no potential to succeed. Examples: specializes, authentic,  traditional, rich, buttery, delicacies, fresh take, both flavor and heartiness, creamy, redefining perceptions, best of Chinese and Indian cuisine, unique fusion, spicy, flavorful, favorite, appreciate bold and savory flavors.  None of this is neutral point of view. Rather, it is all restaurant-review speak. [[User:David notMD|David notMD]] ([[User talk:David notMD|talk]]) 09:33, 16 February 2025 (UTC)

== Request for Guidance: Improving Terren Peizer Article to Meet Wikipedia Standards ==

Dear Wikipedia Editors,
I am reaching out to seek guidance on how to improve my contributions to the Terren Peizer article so that they align with Wikipedia’s standards. My previous edits were removed due to concerns regarding copyright violations, close paraphrasing, and non-compliance with Wikipedia’s policies. I sincerely appreciate the time and effort that Wikipedia editors dedicate to maintaining the integrity of articles, and I want to ensure that my contributions are compliant, neutral, and verifiable.
Understanding and Addressing the Issues
I have carefully reviewed Wikipedia’s guidelines on:
✅ Neutral Point of View (NPOV) – Ensuring the content is fact-based and free of promotional language.
✅ Verifiability (V) – Only including information that is backed by reliable, third-party sources.
✅ Copyright and Plagiarism Policies – Avoiding direct copying or close paraphrasing from external sources.
✅ Proper Citations – Formatting sources using inline citations with <nowiki><ref></nowiki> tags and Wikipedia’s {{tlx|cite web}} and {{tlx|cite press release}} templates.
To address these concerns, I have completely rewritten the content using original wording while maintaining factual accuracy. I have also removed self-published sources and replaced them with independent, authoritative references such as SEC filings, DOJ reports, and reputable news organizations.
Request for Advice
Before resubmitting my edits, I would greatly appreciate any guidance on the following:
Does the new version meet Wikipedia’s standards? If not, what additional improvements are needed?
Are there any specific formatting or structuring issues that need to be addressed before submitting?
Would it be better to add information in smaller sections first (e.g., starting with "Early Life and Education") rather than submitting all at once?
My goal is to ensure that Terren Peizer’s Wikipedia article remains accurate, well-sourced, and aligned with Wikipedia’s editorial guidelines. I genuinely value your expertise and would appreciate any feedback on how to properly contribute without causing issues.
Thank you for your time and assistance! I look forward to your guidance.
Best regards,
Wikipedia Username: Jameschurch001000 [[User:Jameschurch001000|Jameschurch001000]] ([[User talk:Jameschurch001000|talk]]) 23:10, 11 February 2025 (UTC)

:{{ping|Jameschurch001000}} We do not entertain requests made via [[WP:LLM|chatbot]]. —[[User:Jéské Couriano|<i style="color: #1E90FF;">Jéské Couriano</i>]] [[User talk:Jéské Couriano|<span style="color: #228B22">v^&lowbar;^v</span>]] <sup><small>[[User:Jéské Couriano/AG|threads]] [[User:Jéské Couriano/Decode|critiques]]</small></sup> 23:15, 11 February 2025 (UTC)
::I am not a bot. Can you help [[User:Jameschurch001000|Jameschurch001000]] ([[User talk:Jameschurch001000|talk]]) 23:23, 11 February 2025 (UTC)
:::At [[Terren Peizer]] I reverted your most recent contribution because it included bolding of scores of words. The only content that should be bold is the first use of his name. You may have meant to Wikilink, which is done with double brackets [[  ]]. You added a section titled "Business Leadership and Investments" with no references, that to some degree repeated existing content. Try again, and in smaller chunks, so that all is not reverted when some is not correct.  [[User:David notMD|David notMD]] ([[User talk:David notMD|talk]]) 23:37, 11 February 2025 (UTC)
::::You're the first person on here that makes sense and actually helped. I'll try again. [[User:Jameschurch001000|Jameschurch001000]] ([[User talk:Jameschurch001000|talk]]) 00:30, 12 February 2025 (UTC)
:@[[User:Jameschurch001000|Jameschurch001000]] Looking at the edit history on this article, I'm wondering, why do your edits repeatedly delete or de-emphasize the criminal charges and sentencing in the lead?  It seems like you're deleting the references to crime, and burying the changes with a volume of other edits as a distraction.  Do you have a [[WP:conflict of interest]] here?  Are you being compensated for these edits? [[User:Just Al|Just Al]] ([[User talk:Just Al|talk]]) 23:47, 11 February 2025 (UTC)
::Added sources from AP News and the Justice Department. Hopefully, that will end the questionable justifications for the deletion. [[User:Just Al|Just Al]] ([[User talk:Just Al|talk]]) 00:06, 12 February 2025 (UTC)
:::You have been asked here and elsewhere if you have a COI. Please reply before doing any more editing. If yes, you are restricted to proposing changes at the Talk page of the article. [[User:David notMD|David notMD]] ([[User talk:David notMD|talk]]) 00:08, 12 February 2025 (UTC)
::I don't delete any information. I just add. It that a problem. NO COI. However the fact that I can't add data make me think that the user Tacyary is being paid to keep the current data and not allowing other to add. Thoughts [[User:Jameschurch001000|Jameschurch001000]] ([[User talk:Jameschurch001000|talk]]) 00:34, 12 February 2025 (UTC)
:::[[User:Jameschurch001000|Jameschurch001000]], when we look at [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Terren_Peizer&diff=1275253327&oldid=1275252395 this edit of yours], the summary you provided for it, and your description (immediately above) of your edits, what should we infer? -- [[User:Hoary|Hoary]] ([[User talk:Hoary|talk]]) 00:54, 12 February 2025 (UTC)
::::Several experienced editors have reverted the list-of-companes content you have added. Take that as a sign that there is a problem with what you want to add. If you insist, post your proposed changes on the Talk page and seek consensus. [[User:David notMD|David notMD]] ([[User talk:David notMD|talk]]) 03:58, 12 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::Are you all employees of Wikimedia???? [[User:Jameschurch001000|Jameschurch001000]] ([[User talk:Jameschurch001000|talk]]) 18:15, 12 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::No. Please do not [[Wikipedia:Casting aspersions|cast aspersions]]. Employees of Wikimedia who edit in their capacity as employees do so with usernames including the text "(WMF)". [[User:Michael D. Turnbull|Mike Turnbull]] ([[User talk:Michael D. Turnbull|talk]]) 18:32, 12 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Can you help? Or Not [[User:Jameschurch001000|Jameschurch001000]] ([[User talk:Jameschurch001000|talk]]) 00:26, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::::{{ping|Jameschurch001000}} Wikipedia is a collaborative project whose participants are all [[:WP:VOLUNTEER]]s. Some employees of the Wikimedia Foundation (WMF) may also be participants, but their status doesn't give them any special privileges; they are expected to edit in accordance with relevant Wikipedia policies and guidelines just like everyone else. Wikipedia wants us to be [[:WP:BOLD]] in trying to improve articles, but in cases where others feel we've been too bold, they can try to improve on what we've started or simply just undo it altogether. Unless what they're doing is something that's clearly contrary to some relevant policy/guideline (usually this is mentioned in a [[:WP:ES|edit summary]]), it's advisable to [[:WP:AGF|assume good faith]] and try to resolve any disagreements in accordance [[:WP:DISPUTERESOLUTION]].{{pb}}So, if you made a change to [[:Terren Peizer]] that was [[:WP:REVERT]]ed by another, particularly more than once by different editors, the [[:WP:ONUS]] falls upon you to seek a [[:WP:CONSENSUS]] for the change on the article's talk page. If you're able to convince others that making the change [[:WP:HERE|is in accordance with relevant policies and guidelines]], this shouldn't too hard to do. You don't need to convince everyone, just enough so that a consensus to make the change is established. If, on the other hand, you try to justify the change [[:WP:NOTHERE|for reasons not really related to Wikipedia]], you'll find convincing others to be difficult and the change is unlikely to be made. For reference, [[:WP:NOTEVERYTHING]] that can be reliable sourced about a subject warrants inclusion in an article; it's often the case where what's included is a matter of editorial discretion, and this can be subjective; this is why consensus-building through discussion is important when they're are disagreements over what to leave in and what to leave out.{{pb}}Anyway, the best place for you to discuss all of these things is at [[:Talk:Terren Peizer]] because that's were those interested in the subject matter are likely to be found. It's also where any record of such discussion should be kept for future reference. Most people should be more than happy to answer your questions in more detail as long as they are questions about how to make the concerned article better in terms of relevant policies and guidelines, and [[:WP:NOTFORUM|not just random musings about Peizer in general]].{{pb}} Finally, please keep in mind that when dealing with articles or article content about living people, [[:Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons]] (BLP) is the primary policy that is applied, and it applies to content about all living people (not just those mentioned in a article) and all Wikipedia pages (not just articles). -- [[User:Marchjuly|Marchjuly]] ([[User talk:Marchjuly|talk]]) 04:57, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::::Hello,@[[User:Jameschurch001000|Jameschurch001000]]. We cannot help you, if you can't follow Wikimedia's terms of service. Please put that you have a COI in your userpage. And, if you do not have a COI, do not remove information from articles. Such as in [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Terren_Peizer&oldid=1275253327 here].  ''<span style="background-color:yellow; color:Purple;">[[User:Nedia020415|Nedia]] [[User talk:Nedia020415|Wanna talk?]] [[Special:Contributions/Nedia020415|Stalk my edits]]</span>'' 19:03, 16 February 2025 (UTC)

== Question about responding to talk page disscussions ==

If I want to respond to talk page discussions with words like "Keep" or "Delete" in discussion places like [[WP:RFD]], do I use the simple three single quotes (<code><nowiki>'''TEXTHERE'''</nowiki></code>), or do I use the <code>{{[[Template:Strong|Strong]]}}</code> template as referred to at [[MOS:BOLD]]? [[User:Justjourney|Justjourney]] ([[User talk:Justjourney|talk]]) 05:02, 16 February 2025 (UTC)
:Whichever. In this context, it will make no difference. -- [[User:Hoary|Hoary]] ([[User talk:Hoary|talk]]) 06:42, 16 February 2025 (UTC)
::@[[User:Hoary|Hoary]]: Not strictly true. The three-quotes method encloses the text in non-semantic HTML "bold" tags ({{code|<b>}}); whereas {{tl|strong}} encloses the text in semantic HTML "strong" tags ({{code|<strong>}}). The former is for visual presentation only; the latter assigns semantic meaning to the enclosed text, which may be printed, displayed, sounded or otherwise presented differently to surrounding text. See {{section link|HTML element|Inline elements}}.
::The established use of "bold" rather than "strong" in this particular instance is not ideal (why {{em|is}} it being used?), but as a long-term bad habit may be difficult to change. [[User:Bazza_7|Bazza&nbsp;<span style="color:grey">7</span>]] ([[User_talk:Bazza_7|talk]]) 10:40, 16 February 2025 (UTC)
:::{{U|Bazza 7}}, you are right. {{tl|strong}} would be better, for the very reason you give. But using this anomalously (while easily >95% of one's fellow "¬voters" use triple apostrophes and thereby {{code|<b>...</b>}}) doesn't strike me as likely to have any beneficial effect. This is regrettable, but at least triple apostrophes aren't so very widely used and don't risk misinterpretation. Contrast that with double apostrophes (used {{em|many}} times within many articles): These are converted to {{code|<i>...</i>}}: which has not only the defects of {{code|<b>...</b>}} but also ambiguity between emphasis (better specified with {{code|<em>...</em>}}) and book title or similar (better specified with {{code|<cite>...</cite>}}). -- [[User:Hoary|Hoary]] ([[User talk:Hoary|talk]]) 22:14, 16 February 2025 (UTC)
:Honestly, I just click the "'''''<u>A</u>'''''" symbol > Bold. That's what I do, and it works fine. ([[User talk: Acer-the-Protogen|Acer's Communication Receptacle &#124; <small>what did I do now</small>]]) &#124; (PS: Have a good day) (acer was here)  13:58, 16 February 2025 (UTC)

== Unicode code points in wikitext ==

===Gentlemen, you can't "chat" in here; this is the tearoom===
Before I get to my question, upon trying to ask it here, I got a big red warning box saying this page is semi-protected, but if I need help, I should visit the tea-room, sorry, house. <elcor>With high-rising terminal:</elcor> I think this ''is'' the teahouse?<br />Also, if I weren't autoconfirmed, would I be unable to seek help here? That's gotta be a bug, no? Or else the notice is misleading?

:There have been bouts of vandalism. The semi-protected is temporary for now, although it has been necessitated several times in the recent past for same reason. [[User:David notMD|David notMD]] ([[User talk:David notMD|talk]]) 20:17, 16 February 2025 (UTC)

::I understand protection is sometimes called for, my only thing is, the message still pointing users here even though they may find themselves blocked here – I don't know if that could be adjusted somehow. —[[User:ReadOnlyAccount|ReadOnlyAccount]] ([[User talk:ReadOnlyAccount|talk]]) 22:44, 16 February 2025 (UTC)

:::That's a very reasonable point, [[User:ReadOnlyAccount|ReadOnlyAccount]], but one better raised on [[WT:Teahouse]]. -- [[User:Hoary|Hoary]] ([[User talk:Hoary|talk]]) 23:59, 16 February 2025 (UTC)

::::[[Wikipedia talk:Teahouse#Three harrumphs for attention|Done]]. And if you're reading this because you came from there: Hello, and welcome back. —[[User:ReadOnlyAccount|ReadOnlyAccount]] ([[User talk:ReadOnlyAccount|talk]]) 00:15, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

===Harrumph (segue)===
So anyway, I've recently seen the oddest thing. Apparently it is possible to enter [[Unicode code point]]s in decimal in [[wikitext]] and to then get the character. Here's an example from [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Verdana&oldid=357186996#Variants an old revision] of [[Verdana]], where if you click edit to view the wikitext, you can grep this:

:<nowiki>а{{&}}#768;е</nowiki>

That's rendered as а{{&}}#768;е – which is the Cyrillic а, then the &nbsp; ‍̀  U+0300 COMBINING GRAVE ACCENT Unicode character, then the Cyrillic е. Now it just so happens that the decimal number 768 you see above corresponds to hexadecimal 300, which is the Unicode code point of that character. Sooooo, apparently by using that <nowiki>{{&}}</nowiki> template as per above, I ought to be able to enter possibly any character via its Unicode code point in decimal? So 

:<nowiki>{{&}}#65;</nowiki>

should give me the letter "{{&}}#65;"?

I mean, I can see that this works, but my question is more of a solid helping of ye olde Whiskey Tango Foxtrot of astonishment, I mean, how? Why? What's going on there? Can someone explain? I mean, hang on, apparently, if I understand correctly, the [[Template:&|<nowiki>{{&}}</nowiki>]] template is just used to throw off some bots/scripts or [[MediaWiki]] itself, to prevent ''whoever'' from doing some unwanted [[magick]] —and maybe somebody could shed more light on that— but beyond that, have [[HTML_entity#Character_reference_overview|numerical HTML entities]] always been Unicode code point-savvy? And if not, then since when has this been a thing? Have I totally missed the boat (and a trick) here? Have I forgotten this after possibly having known this before? (Maybe I've been Biden my time too much?) To be clear, it's not so much the ability to enter HTML entities numerically that surprises me. What I am surprised by is that these are code points, as opposed to [[code unit]]s. Also, not to go all greyhat on you, but the ability to insert any random Unicode character sequence in this way, are we sure that's being sanity-checked like everything else? That's gotta be exploitable, no? I mean, I haven't tested it, and I don't wanna, but it smells exploitable. Hm?<br />¯\_(ツ)_/¯ —[[User:ReadOnlyAccount|ReadOnlyAccount]] ([[User talk:ReadOnlyAccount|talk]]) 20:04, 16 February 2025 (UTC)

:Yes, [[User:ReadOnlyAccount|ReadOnlyAccount]], Mediawiki lets you use [[numeric character reference]]s, whether decimal or hexadecimal. This does not "smell exploitable" to me. If you have a follow-up question, please keep it concise. -- [[User:Hoary|Hoary]] ([[User talk:Hoary|talk]]) 21:40, 16 February 2025 (UTC)

::Oh, wow – from your link:
:::{{fontcolor||#EEE|Since [[SGML|WebSgml]], [[XML]] and [[HTML 4]], the code points of the [[Universal Character Set]] (UCS) of [[Unicode]] are used.}}
::I did not expect —or at least just now I did not remember— Unicode code points to have been a thing with that, and this ''since HTML 4''. Thank you. —[[User:ReadOnlyAccount|ReadOnlyAccount]] ([[User talk:ReadOnlyAccount|talk]]) 22:44, 16 February 2025 (UTC)

== Global contribs ==

When I try to access my global contributions, it shows me an error on the top. Retrying doesn't do much to fix this issue. How can I fix this? [[User:Justjourney|Justjourney]] ([[User talk:Justjourney|talk]]) 04:44, 16 February 2025 (UTC)
:What is the error that's shown? -- [[User:Hoary|Hoary]] ([[User talk:Hoary|talk]]) 06:44, 16 February 2025 (UTC)
:@[[User:Justjourney|Justjourney]] When I go to your contributions page and click on the "global contributions" link at the foot [https://guc.toolforge.org/?by=date&user=Justjourney I get this], which is what I would expect. Does the link here work for you? If not, we need to know the precise error message and other information such as your device, operating system and browser. [[User:Michael D. Turnbull|Mike Turnbull]] ([[User talk:Michael D. Turnbull|talk]]) 14:39, 16 February 2025 (UTC)
::It's when I go to [[Special:Contributions/Justjourney]], then click on the "global contributions" link in the line "Results for Justjourney". I get "Error loading data from some wikis. These results are incomplete. It may help to try again." Direct link: [[meta:Special:GlobalContributions/Justjourney]]. [[User:Justjourney|Justjourney]] ([[User talk:Justjourney|talk]]) 15:33, 16 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Yes, I get the same error using the direct meta link [https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:GlobalContributions/Michael_D._Turnbull on my own username], while the toolforge link [https://guc.toolforge.org/?by=date&user=Michael+D.+Turnbull to my global contributions] works fine. So it seems to be a problem with the meta link, rather than us. If you want to report the bug, [[WP:VPT]] may be the place to do so (I'm not sure if they deal with problems on meta). [[User:Michael D. Turnbull|Mike Turnbull]] ([[User talk:Michael D. Turnbull|talk]]) 16:25, 16 February 2025 (UTC)
::::They have the bug report on Phabricator https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T384717. Asking the discord server got me this link. [[User:Justjourney|Justjourney]] ([[User talk:Justjourney|talk]]) 02:52, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::and https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T384717 [[User:Justjourney|Justjourney]] ([[User talk:Justjourney|talk]]) 02:53, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::this one actually: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T385377 [[User:Justjourney|Justjourney]] ([[User talk:Justjourney|talk]]) 02:53, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

== Confusing set of moves: [[Þorgerður Ingólfsdóttir]] ==

The article [[Þorgerður Ingólfsdóttir]], a BLP for an Icelandic choral conductor has had a set of confusing moves and PROD, and I don't know how to sort this out. Ingólfsdóttir is notable, though the article could benefit from some editing. However, {{User link|लॉस एंजिल्स लेखक}} sent the page to draftspace [[Draft:Þorgerður Ingólfsdóttir]] and left behind a PROD. Any thoughts on next steps? Thanks for any help. [[User:DaffodilOcean|DaffodilOcean]] ([[User talk:DaffodilOcean|talk]]) 22:47, 16 February 2025 (UTC)

:As it's in the draft space I would probably leave it alone for now. If it gets moved to mainspace and it's still not ready you can send it to [[WP:AfD|articles for deletion]] and let the community decide what to do with it. Also anyone can edit a draft so feel free to improve yourself if you have the time and interest. <span style="font-family: Brush Script MT; text-shadow: 5px 3px 8px;">[[User:Sophisticatedevening|<span style="color: purple">Sophisticatedevening</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Sophisticatedevening|<span style="color: purple">(talk)</span>]]</sup></span> 23:09, 16 February 2025 (UTC)
::I actually think it belongs in the mainspace, so I will edit it to address the concerns about puffery and NPOV. [[User:DaffodilOcean|DaffodilOcean]] ([[User talk:DaffodilOcean|talk]]) 23:15, 16 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Please do, {{U|DaffodilOcean}}. There are other problems too. The first reference I looked at was rather improbably cited for unrelated medals from two distinct nations and turned out to be a source for only one of the pair. I've [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Draft%3A%C3%9Eorger%C3%B0ur_Ing%C3%B3lfsd%C3%B3ttir&diff=1276119030&oldid=1276115015 partially fixed] this particular problem but I wonder how many other (apparent) references might crumble under inspection. Plus there's all the material that doesn't even look as if it's referenced. -- [[User:Hoary|Hoary]] ([[User talk:Hoary|talk]]) 00:10, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
::::I have done the editing I can do, though I had to rely on Google Translate for all the Icelandic media coverage. I submitted the page back to AfC. [[User:DaffodilOcean|DaffodilOcean]] ([[User talk:DaffodilOcean|talk]]) 03:11, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

:It's now an article again, and deservedly so. Props to [[User:DaffodilOcean|DaffodilOcean]] for fast work on this. -- [[User:Hoary|Hoary]] ([[User talk:Hoary|talk]]) 05:04, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

== Afd nominations ==

I've recently been using Twinkle to nominate a lot of poor Japanese footballer articles. I was wondering how many is too many to nominate at once? I did 9 yesterday and that feels like quite a lot for now. [[User:RossEvans19|RossEvans19]] ([[User talk:RossEvans19|talk]]) 01:01, 16 February 2025 (UTC)
:{{ping|RossEvans19}} I don't think there's a brightline number per se; if, however, you're asking "how many is too much", then perhaps you should slow down and wait to see what happens with the ones you've already nominated. AfD isn't really a race where speed matter; so, nominating lots of articles (particularly lots of the same type an article) within a short span of time might give others the impression that you're not properly doing a thorough [[:WP:BEFORE]]. AfD discussions can sometimes get contentious, and this is especially so when others think nominations are frivilous or otherwise not well-thought out. You need to remember that things like "Twinkle" can make repetitive tasks quite easy to do, but you're also responsible for any edit you make using them. If, by chance, it turns out the one or more of the articles you already nominated end up being kept, then perhaps you were moving too fast. Just a suggestion, but maybe it would be a good idea to discuss any articles who feel should be deleted first at [[:WT:FOOTY]] or [[:WT:JAPAN]] because maybe the members of those WikiProjects can help with BEFORE. -- [[User:Marchjuly|Marchjuly]] ([[User talk:Marchjuly|talk]]) 01:36, 16 February 2025 (UTC)
::That's a good point - this is a situation where I need to slow down and be patient, which I'm not great at xD - I'll keep that in mind for future nominations, as I came across a few articles I was unsure if they should be kept or not. Thanks for the advice! :)) [[User:RossEvans19|RossEvans19]] ([[User talk:RossEvans19|talk]]) 01:41, 16 February 2025 (UTC)
:::{{hidden ping|RossEvans19}}Please remember that [[:WP:NOTTEMPORARY|Wikipedia notability isn't temporary]] and doesn't go away over time; in addition, the lack of sourcing in an article [[:WP:NEXIST|doesn't automatically mean something isn't Wikipedia notable]]. Some Japanese footballers might have been covered in reliable sources in languages other than English; so, it's probably a good idea to check on such things before nominating any articles for deletion. -- [[User:Marchjuly|Marchjuly]] ([[User talk:Marchjuly|talk]]) 01:44, 16 February 2025 (UTC)
::::I've checked on the Japanese wikipedia during my searching, along with other areas, and the ones I've nominated are poor articles of players who've played less than 10 games years ago - I do struggle with "offline searching" - I'm not entirely sure how to search for that. [[User:RossEvans19|RossEvans19]] ([[User talk:RossEvans19|talk]]) 01:46, 16 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::You can't really, unless you happen to have books/articles on it laying around, I would suggest that you look at the [https://archive.org/ Internet Archive] as they may have some stuff that you could use. It maybe difficult though, unless you know Japanese (which you may if you are checking the Japanese WP.). [[User:Sheriff_U3|Sheriff U3]] &#124; [[User talk:Sheriff U3|Talk]] &#124; [[Special:Contributions/Sheriff_U3|Con]] 06:17, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

== Doubt Regarding Article ==

Hey, just a moments before I created an article on this church -- [[Budden Memorial Church (Almora)]], I am facing doubts regarding the categories that need to be added, Need Help pls check  [[User:JesusisGreat7|JesusisGreat7]] ([[User talk:JesusisGreat7|talk]]) 13:09, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

:Added a few to get you started, I would consider installing [[WP:Hotcat|Hotcat]] as it makes searching for them a lot easier. Cheers!
:<span style="font-family: Brush Script MT; text-shadow: 5px 3px 8px;">[[User:Sophisticatedevening|<span style="color: purple">Sophisticatedevening</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Sophisticatedevening|<span style="color: purple">(talk)</span>]]</sup></span> 13:35, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

== Why don't I see an updated change? ==

Apparently, the [[Syrian civil war]] map has been updated, but I do not see this on my end. Is there some kind of glitch, do I just need to wait until the changes have been updated in, or is it something else entirely? [[User:LordOfWalruses|LordOfWalruses]] ([[User talk:LordOfWalruses|talk]]) 14:52, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

:@[[User:LordOfWalruses|LordOfWalruses]] This is often due to a browser problem your end. If so, you need to [[WP:Bypass your cache]]. [[User:Michael D. Turnbull|Mike Turnbull]] ([[User talk:Michael D. Turnbull|talk]]) 14:59, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

== Search Engine ==

I created [[Fault Lines in the Faith]], and it is already Patrolled by an editor, but it is not available on the Google Search, is there any issue? I'm facing this issue for the first time since I'm editing Wikipedia. Someone help. [[User:Taabii|<span style="color: HotPink">Taabii</span>]] ([[User talk:Taabii|<span style="color: DarkKhaki">talk</span>]]) 03:42, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

:{{ping|Taabii}} Google [[Web cache|caches]] its search results for performance reasons. It'll show up once Google refreshes the cache. —[[User:Jéské Couriano|<i style="color: #1E90FF;">Jéské Couriano</i>]] [[User talk:Jéské Couriano|<span style="color: #228B22">v^&lowbar;^v</span>]] <sup><small>[[User:Jéské Couriano/AG|threads]] [[User:Jéské Couriano/Decode|critiques]]</small></sup> 03:44, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
::@[[User:Jéské Couriano|Jéské Couriano]] Okay, Thankyou. :) [[User:Taabii|<span style="color: HotPink">Taabii</span>]] ([[User talk:Taabii|<span style="color: DarkKhaki">talk</span>]]) 03:46, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
:The results in '''"Google Search"''' is not under the responsibility of Wikipedia.  <br /> <br />
:@[[User:Taabii|Taabii]] explained you it'll show up once Google refreshes the cache. 
:I think it will be updated this week. [[User:Anatole-berthe|Anatole-berthe]] ([[User talk:Anatole-berthe|talk]]) 03:50, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

:{{U|Taabii}}, I learn that "The book has been reviewed by [A], [B], [C] , [D]" (the abbreviations are mine). Did each of these four say anything that's worth summarizing? If so, summarize it. If not, why even mention the review? -- [[User:Hoary|Hoary]] ([[User talk:Hoary|talk]]) 05:15, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
::@[[User:Hoary|Hoary]] I'll do that. [[User:Taabii|<span style="color: HotPink">Taabii</span>]] ([[User talk:Taabii|<span style="color: DarkKhaki">talk</span>]]) 05:49, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
:::@[[User:Taabii|Taabii]] It was accepted by the [[WP:NPP|new pages patrol]] on February 14th. In my experience, it needs an edit after that date so that search engines will catch up. It now has a minor edit made today and, as I would predict, google.co.uk already has it now. [[User:Michael D. Turnbull|Mike Turnbull]] ([[User talk:Michael D. Turnbull|talk]]) 15:17, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

== IP/unregistered editing ==

What official policies or guidelines guide IP/unregistered editor conduct and specifically govern how registered users are supposed to interact with such IP/unregistered editors? Is there any difference in terms of how their edits are to be viewed or interacted with? If, for example, an IP makes an edit that has no edit summary, could that be summarily reverted? Especially if the edit does not appear to be constructive? [[User:Iljhgtn|Iljhgtn]] ([[User talk:Iljhgtn|talk]]) 01:41, 11 February 2025 (UTC)

:Hi @[[User:Iljhgtn|Iljhgtn]] and welcome to the Teahouse. Unregistered editors must be treated the same as those with an account. There are some restrictions on them such as [[WP:AUTOC|never getting autoconfirmed]]. If an edit by anyone is unconstructive it can be reverted and then discussed (within edit warring policies) but a lack of an edit summary is not a reason for this. Since many IP editors are new to the project [[WP:NOBITING]] would also apply. [[User:Ultraodan|Ultraodan]] ([[User talk:Ultraodan|talk]]) 03:13, 11 February 2025 (UTC)
::How do IPs put edits places like on [[Talk: Main Page]] then, which has protection yet also has comments from IPs? [[User:Nebman227|Nebman227]] ([[User talk:Nebman227|talk]]) 19:49, 11 February 2025 (UTC)
:::What IP edits are you referring to on that talk page?  I don't see any in the last 250 edits.  -- [[User:Avocado|Avocado]] ([[User talk:Avocado|talk]]) 17:36, 14 February 2025 (UTC)
::::Yeah and I just checked the past 500 and saw none. [[User:Iljhgtn|Iljhgtn]] ([[User talk:Iljhgtn|talk]]) 16:33, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
:::@[[User:Nebman227|Nebman227]], They can make a request at [[WP:RFED]]. <span style="font-family:Arial;background-color:#fff;border:2px dashed#69c73e">[[User:Cowboygilbert|<span style="color:#3f6b39">'''Cowboygilbert'''</span>]] - [[User talk:Cowboygilbert|<span style="color:#d12667"> (talk) ♥</span>]]</span> 05:03, 15 February 2025 (UTC)

== Codeboxes ==

In my contributions, I've added some code boxes to some pages that have wikitext code. Do you approve of these edits? I'm just wondering. [[User:Justjourney|Justjourney]] ([[User talk:Justjourney|talk]]) 02:00, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

:@[[User:Justjourney|Justjourney]] Do you mean in the essay [[WP:Avoiding linkseas]]? That's fine but the essay itself was written in 2013 and has not been altered (or, I suspect, quoted) much since then. It is very similar to the oft-quoted [[WP:SEAOFBLUE]]. [[User:Michael D. Turnbull|Mike Turnbull]] ([[User talk:Michael D. Turnbull|talk]]) 15:27, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
::@[[User:Michael D. Turnbull|Michael D. Turnbull]] For example, [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Talk_page_guidelines&diff=prev&oldid=1275800464], I've edited a talk page guideline with code boxes. [[User:Justjourney|Justjourney]] ([[User talk:Justjourney|talk]]) 16:11, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Yes, no problem. Others would revert your addition to these pages if they didn't like them, just as they would if you had edited articles. [[User:Michael D. Turnbull|Mike Turnbull]] ([[User talk:Michael D. Turnbull|talk]]) 16:57, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

== I am not sure what bludgeoning is? ==

I have asked for some simple changes to a page and have been accused of bludgeoning.  I think if anyone reads through my previous posts they will find that I have been as respectful and polite as I can.  Perhaps an independent reviewer could look at my recent posts? Troy Kelley [[User:Tdkelley1|Tdkelley1]] 16:46, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

:Hello.  You don't even have 50 edits in the 17 days you've had your account, and almost all of them have been to [[Talk:Aquatic ape hypothesis]] or related to it. Per [[WP:BLUDGEON]], "Bludgeoning is when a user dominates the conversation in order to persuade others to their point of view." It doesn't necessarily mean you are trying to be rude, but you're appearing pushy. It's best to comment only when necessary; not every reply needs a reply. [[User:331dot|331dot]] ([[User talk:331dot|talk]]) 16:54, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
::Got it.  Sorry I didnt realize that was a rule.
::In my defense, part of my extensive comments have been about previous comments that were not implemented a few weeks ago or about referencing previous posts that the editors did not see.  
::And quite frankly, I am having to describe a scientific theory to an editor, which requires extensive typing, because he doesn't understand the theory!  
::Additionally, the editor was constantly "moving the goal post" for me and changing the argument, so I had to explain additional information and he did not respond to my previous posts.  Again, if you have the time please review. 
::My comments are here.  I would be interested in your comments.  I am user Tdkelley1
::https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Aquatic_ape_hypothesis Troy Kelley [[User:Tdkelley1|Tdkelley1]] 17:05, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

== Helping with a draft ==

Let's say someone is working on a draft article (Draft: namespace). Can I help with the draft, or do I have to just leave them be? [[User:Justjourney|Justjourney]] ([[User talk:Justjourney|talk]]) 17:40, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

:Technically, you could step in and help. In practise, however, most drafters tend to get annoyed at the least if someone else jumps in to help with their draft. I would ask them first on their user talk page. —[[User:Jéské Couriano|<i style="color: #1E90FF;">Jéské Couriano</i>]] [[User talk:Jéské Couriano|<span style="color: #228B22">v^&lowbar;^v</span>]] <sup><small>[[User:Jéské Couriano/AG|threads]] [[User:Jéské Couriano/Decode|critiques]]</small></sup> 17:42, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
::@[[User:Jéské Couriano|Jéské Couriano]] For example, if [[2025 New Delhi railway station stampede]] gets "draftifyed", as it is nominated for deletion, can I still get with the draft? [[User:Justjourney|Justjourney]] ([[User talk:Justjourney|talk]]) 17:45, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
:::You can edit the article right now and !vote to keep it, pointing out that you have tackled some of the issues that led to it being nominated for deletion. If it is indeed still draftified as the AfD outcome, then continuing to work on it would be acceptable as the editor who mainly wrote it already knows what is going on. [[User:Michael D. Turnbull|Mike Turnbull]] ([[User talk:Michael D. Turnbull|talk]]) 18:30, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
::::The AfD was withdrawn by the nominator by the way. <span style="font-family: Brush Script MT; text-shadow: 5px 3px 8px;">[[User:Sophisticatedevening|<span style="color: purple">Sophisticatedevening</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Sophisticatedevening|<span style="color: purple">(talk)</span>]]</sup></span> 18:35, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:Sophisticatedevening|Sophisticatedevening]] What does withdrawn mean exactly? [[User:Justjourney|Justjourney]] ([[User talk:Justjourney|talk]]) 18:36, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::So when someone nominates an [[WP:AFD|article for deletion]], at any time the person who nominated can put a comment saying they withdraw their nomination, and the discussion is closed as Speedy keep. <span style="font-family: Brush Script MT; text-shadow: 5px 3px 8px;">[[User:Sophisticatedevening|<span style="color: purple">Sophisticatedevening</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Sophisticatedevening|<span style="color: purple">(talk)</span>]]</sup></span> 18:39, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

== Speedy close ==

Hi, I nominated [[Renato (footballer, born 1992)]] for deletion but per sources found by Svarter, I would like to close the deletion request as a speedy keep, but I',m not sure how to do that. Would anybody be able to either do it for me or show me how? Thanks :)) [[User:RossEvans19|RossEvans19]] ([[User talk:RossEvans19|talk]]) 18:40, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

:You can put a comment in bold saying "Withdrawn by nominator" right below your reason at the top and someone will come along and close it. <span style="font-family: Brush Script MT; text-shadow: 5px 3px 8px;">[[User:Sophisticatedevening|<span style="color: purple">Sophisticatedevening</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Sophisticatedevening|<span style="color: purple">(talk)</span>]]</sup></span> 18:42, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
:See [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2025 New Delhi railway station stampede|this one]] as an example if you need it <span style="font-family: Brush Script MT; text-shadow: 5px 3px 8px;">[[User:Sophisticatedevening|<span style="color: purple">Sophisticatedevening</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Sophisticatedevening|<span style="color: purple">(talk)</span>]]</sup></span> 18:43, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
::Thank you! I appreciate the example, that was helpful :)) [[User:RossEvans19|RossEvans19]] ([[User talk:RossEvans19|talk]]) 18:45, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
:::No problem! <span style="font-family: Brush Script MT; text-shadow: 5px 3px 8px;">[[User:Sophisticatedevening|<span style="color: purple">Sophisticatedevening</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Sophisticatedevening|<span style="color: purple">(talk)</span>]]</sup></span> 18:45, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

== The word "Caucasian" ==

The word Caucasian properly refers to things relating to the Caucasus. In the US, however, (and apparently Canada and Singapore, going by Wiktionary) it can also refer to White people or Europeans or "Westerners" in general. Should I use this word on Wikipedia? If many sources use it, should I repeat the word or replace it with a synonym (are there any good synonyms to it?). Can it be easily mixed-up with Caucasian proper? I mean, they basically always can, right? It's a highly racial word, but then again, so is White, Black, African-American, "Western", and maybe even European.

Help would be greatly appreciated, cheers.

P.S. I do find it funny that when asking this question I was met with "'''Note:''' This page is [[Wikipedia:Protection policy#Semi-protection|semi-protected]] so that only [[Wikipedia:User access levels#Autoconfirmed users|autoconfirmed users]] can edit it. If you need help getting started with editing, please visit the '''Teahouse'''." [[User:Aspets|Aspets]] ([[User talk:Aspets|talk]]) 17:13, 14 February 2025 (UTC)
:{{re|Aspets}} I can't answer your question about the term "Caucasian", but the current semi-protection is due to a relentless vandal who has nothing better to do with their life, making life harder for everybody else for no reason. Sorry for being so rude, it's just that I can't stand watching the Teahouse being restricted due to some random bored person. <span style="border-radius:99q;padding:0 7q;background:#103;border:3q solid #FBF">[[User:QuickQuokka|<span style="color:#FBF">'''QuickQuokka'''</span>]]</span> <sup>[⁠[[User talk:QuickQuokka|talk]] • [[Special:Contribs/QuickQuokka|contribs]]]</sup> 17:31, 14 February 2025 (UTC)
::I take no offense. Thank you for the explanation. I guessed as much. It was a little funny seeing it, like an example of recursion. [[User:Aspets|Aspets]] ([[User talk:Aspets|talk]]) 19:17, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
:@[[User:Aspets|Aspets]] The term [[Caucasian]] has multiple meanings, which is why it is a disambiguation page. I see no reason why it shouldn't be used as long as the meaning is unambiguous. [[User:Shantavira|Shantavira]]|[[User talk:Shantavira|<sup>feed me</sup>]] 19:16, 14 February 2025 (UTC)
::Thank you. [[User:Aspets|Aspets]] ([[User talk:Aspets|talk]]) 19:17, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
:If [[WP:reliable sources|reliable sources]] use it, then use the term used by said sources, if and when the information is relevant, and cite those sources. You will rarely go wrong in editing if you keep in the forefront of your mind that Wikipedia [[WP:42|is supposed to summarize what reputable sources say about a topic.]] And, refrain from bringing up biographical details when they're not contextually relevant: see [[MOS:ETHNICITY]]. [[WP:Race and ethnicity]] is an essay containing further thoughts from some editors on the general subject. --[[User:Slowking Man|Slowking Man]] ([[User talk:Slowking Man|talk]]) 04:38, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
::Thank you. I appreciate the link to MOS:Ethnicity, I haven't seen that before. I've read the essay but was mainly concerned with that specific word's polysemy and some sources sometimes being unclear (at least for me, not a native English speaker) in their usage. My previous experience editing has exposed my tendency to stick too closely to a source, basically plagiarizing it. Refraining from that involves summarizing what a source meant with their words, instead of reproducing them. So I will simply try to understand the occurences in their context. Cheers! [[User:Aspets|Aspets]] ([[User talk:Aspets|talk]]) 19:24, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

== Making an article with Grammarly ==

Hi, am I able to make an article with Grammarly? Basically I will gather some sources and use Grammarly to create a base for my article, It's more like a starting point for me for my first article. And I also edit any of the mistakes Grammarly may make. I always check before uploading. [[User:Liam9287|Liam9287]] ([[User talk:Liam9287|talk]]) 22:46, 13 February 2025 (UTC)

:Hi @[[User:Liam9287|Liam9287]]. The short answer is no, you cannot and should not use [[Grammarly]]. See this essay for more on that, [[Wikipedia:Don't use Grammarly]]. [[User:Iljhgtn|Iljhgtn]] ([[User talk:Iljhgtn|talk]]) 22:52, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::I didn't know about this, last time I asked about Grammarly they said I could use it to edit articles, so this is a little odd. [[Wikipedia:Teahouse/Questions/Archive 1238#h-Questions regarding copyright and copyediting-20241018192500]]  Also, I am aware of the English thing, and I dismiss them because I know Grammarly is based on American English. I also dismiss Grammarly trying to edit links or references, as I know that is crucial for articles. Am I not allowed to use it anymore? [[User:Liam9287|Liam9287]] ([[User talk:Liam9287|talk]]) 23:08, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Hi {{ping|Liam9287}} Best not to use any automatic tools to build any articles. Articles should be hand built, hand written the old-fashioned way. If it is smacks or reads of automatic generation, i.e. created by some other AI tooling e.g. Grammerly, ChatGTP and so on,  it is will likely be sent to [[WP:AFC]] or deleted at [[WP:AFD]] very quickly. '''<span style="text-shadow:7px 7px 8px black; font-family:Papyrus">[[User:scope_creep|<span style="color:#3399ff">scope_creep</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:scope_creep#top|Talk]]</sup></span>''' 05:51, 14 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Hi {{u|Liam9287}}. Why do you want or need to use Grammarly? Do you think you're unable to create an article without such assistance? Wikipedia articles [[:WP:IMPERFECT|aren't required to be perfect]]; and nobody is going to expect you to be perfect yourself. If you're capable of finding sources that clearly establish the [[:Wikipedia:Notability]] of the subject you want to create an article about, you should be equally as capable of creating an article about it. If you're not capable of finding such sources, then using Grammarly to create the article won't fix that problem, and the article will most likely end up deleted regardless. If you want to use Grammarly as a tool to help you study writing or work out a draft, then feel free to do so. Once anything you create is added to the mainspace, though, it can be rewritten, partially or totally, by others if they deem doing so to be necessary. What will you do if that happens? Revert back to the version you created because you used Grammarly? Things like Grammarly can be helpful in many ways, but relying on them too much might not help you develop your skills as a Wikipedia editor. -- [[User:Marchjuly|Marchjuly]] ([[User talk:Marchjuly|talk]]) 06:06, 14 February 2025 (UTC)
::::{{u|Liam9287}}, I am not recommending use of Grammarly or recommending against it either. I have never used it or anything like it myself. I do want to point out that the essay about it does not have widespread consensus. I suggest that you read [[Wikipedia talk :Don't use Grammarly]] where several editors express strong disagreement with that essay. [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 09:46, 14 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::{{re|Liam9287}} you've just posted a question and a follow-up in perfect and readable English, presumably without using Grammarly, so why would you need it anyway? Grammarly's advertising is very much based on the confidence-destroying premise: "If you don't use Grammarly, all sorts of nasty things will happen that you won't even notice because writing is harder than you think; you will probably lose your job or fail your student assignments. You don't know you need Grammarly, but you do!" This is very bad! If you want to use tools like Grammarly, you can, but you probably need them as much as you need Breatherly to help you breathe (because breathing is complicated, and grad students don't have time to think about breathing). [[User:Elemimele|Elemimele]] ([[User talk:Elemimele|talk]]) 09:47, 14 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::Ok I have read all of your comments, they are really insightful and well written. After reading them I can definitely see how making an article with an AI would be weird. I thought it was silly to make an article with Grammarly anyway, cause humans are better than AI always. (well mostly) Thank you guys for the help! Am I still able to use for copyediting though? [[User:Liam9287|Liam9287]] ([[User talk:Liam9287|talk]]) 18:50, 14 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Please don't use Grammarly for copyediting. We ask that aspiring copyeditors are somewhat familiar with Wikipedia's [[WP:MOS|Manual of Style]], which Grammarly isn't calibrated to. —[[User:Tenryuu|<span style="color:#556B2F">Tenryuu&nbsp;🐲</span>]]&nbsp;(&nbsp;[[User talk:Tenryuu|💬]]&nbsp;•&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/Tenryuu|📝]]&nbsp;) 01:38, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::::For example, Grammarly does not know to distinguish between British English and American English spellings or style. Whereas the MOS of Wikipedia would guide us or inform us to follow whichever style is first on the page in most instances per [[MOS:RETAIN]]. [[User:Iljhgtn|Iljhgtn]] ([[User talk:Iljhgtn|talk]]) 16:30, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::::Ok, I won't anymore. [[User:Liam9287|Liam9287]] ([[User talk:Liam9287|talk]]) 20:14, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

== whoops ==

I edited a timedtext for Wikimedia Commons, but it for some reason, didn't log me in. What should I do? [[User:Justjourney|Justjourney]] ([[User talk:Justjourney|talk]]) 20:18, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

:Hello, @[[User:Justjourney|Justjourney]]. Do you need to do anything? If you are bothered about having the edit ascribed to your account, I presume you can do a [[WP:Dummy edit|Dummy edit]] on Commons just as you can here. But you're probably best asking on Commons, eg at [[:C:COM:Help desk]]. [[User:ColinFine|ColinFine]] ([[User talk:ColinFine|talk]]) 21:00, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
::@[[User:ColinFine|ColinFine]] Does it count as sockpuppeting? [[User:Justjourney|Justjourney]] ([[User talk:Justjourney|talk]]) 22:10, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
:::No. You're even allowed to use multiple accounts in certain circumstances - see [[wP:SOCKLEGIT|SOCKLEGIT]]. Editing without logging in should be avoided as much as possible, but unless you are deliberately doing so to evade a block, or to create apparent support in a dispute, there's no harm done. [[User:ColinFine|ColinFine]] ([[User talk:ColinFine|talk]]) 23:11, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

== I am worried the gate keepers of wikipedia are too "gatekeepy" ==

Just from some recent interactions with some of the editors on wikipedia, it doesn't appear that they are all that motivated to change pages?  Is this experience common?  I have tried to be a polite as possible, but answering the dilush of questions from the editors, and in somecases having to repeat myself, I am now accused of bludgeoning. I would be interested to see what you think as a 3rd party.  My intereactions of recent are below as Tdkelley1

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Aquatic_ape_hypothesis Troy Kelley [[User:Tdkelley1|Tdkelley1]] 17:10, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

:{{ping|Tdkelley1}} You're editing in a [[WP:Contentious topics/Pseudoscience|contentious topic]] that is known for seeing a lot of cranks, [[sealioning]], and [[astroturfing]]. I would pick a different topic to write about for now, at least until you get some more experience with editing Wikipedia. —[[User:Jéské Couriano|<i style="color: #1E90FF;">Jéské Couriano</i>]] [[User talk:Jéské Couriano|<span style="color: #228B22">v^&lowbar;^v</span>]] <sup><small>[[User:Jéské Couriano/AG|threads]] [[User:Jéské Couriano/Decode|critiques]]</small></sup> 17:41, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
::Yes thanks.  Sorry I am not a crank.  This isnt a theory like the flat earth stuff.  AAH is a theory that calls into question the savanna theory of human evolution, thats it.
::But, irrespective of the theory, I am also worried that a scientific theory can be classified in a certain derogatory way, and thus be shoved aside, so as to not warrant any scientific scrutiny at all.  The author of the paper I posted calls this Paradigm bias. And yes, I do see Paradigm bias in relation to the theory. https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/dfb1/41a25ec926baf6d05d45c2cf63d054fbe992.pdf
::Most opinions about AAH were formed from an old blog post that has since been updated in 2009.  I discussed these theories with the author in 1999 or 2000. But the point is, any google search after that went to that blog post.  That post is 20 years old now.  There is a lot of new research.
::And frankly, I shouldn't have to spend time pointing out that, of the first three references on the main page, one clearly is clearly a mistake, as it supports the wrong hypothesis.  Why does this need to even be discussed? Troy Kelley [[User:Tdkelley1|Tdkelley1]] 17:58, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Sorry, I have dyslexia and cannot remember numbers.  It is ref 35 that supports the theory, not reference 3.  I apologised for this mistake earlier. Troy Kelley [[User:Tdkelley1|Tdkelley1]] 18:19, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
::::Per Page views the article in question [[Aquatic ape hypothesis]] has hundreds of watchers and ten archives of past Talk page discussions, so it is likely that any recent Talk page discussion draws lots of attention plus resistance to change when the same questions have be debated in the past. [[User:David notMD|David notMD]] ([[User talk:David notMD|talk]]) 18:53, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::Thanks.  I did not know that it had hundreds of watchers!  
:::::Perhaps that is an indication that it is a popular subject, that needs to be discussed, because it gets lots of attention? If there is a lot of interest, should it then be discussed more completely?  
:::::Just to be clear, we are talking about a theory of human evolution (Aquatic Ape Hypothesis) that is an alternative to the traditional (Savanna Hypothesis) put forth by Wheeler.  That is it, just to be clear.  The Savanna hypothesis has not be definitively proven and there is an alternate scientific theory. 
:::::If the talk discussions have had discussions on the merits of the hypothesis from the past, I am sorry but I do not see them. I only see one other debate on the talk page, besides my own. Troy Kelley [[User:Tdkelley1|Tdkelley1]] 19:47, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
::::::That particular Talk page has ten pages of archives, @[[User:Tdkelley1|Tdkelley1]]. They're all linked at the top, or there is a search box to search them for a particular string. (I haven't looked at them, so I don't know if there's anything relevant) [[User:ColinFine|ColinFine]] ([[User talk:ColinFine|talk]]) 20:10, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
:::::::yes, I believe the first five pages or so is locked.  The last five, or so, cover recent conversations. Troy Kelley [[User:Tdkelley1|Tdkelley1]] 20:16, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

Also the [[Hunting hypothesis]]. amd its offshoot the [[Endurance running hypothesis]], both of which can be considered derivatives of the [[Savannah hypothesis]]. [[User:David notMD|David notMD]] ([[User talk:David notMD|talk]]) 22:11, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

:Correct.  The "Persistence hunting hypothesis" or the "Savannah Hypothesis" is the counter argument to AAH.  The persistence hunting hypothesis or savannah hypothesis has not be definitively proven in the literature.  This is what the discussion is all about. Troy Kelley [[User:Tdkelley1|Tdkelley1]] 22:13, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
::All hypotheses are not given equal weight. The great majority of academics in human evolution and anthropology favor the dry-land hypothesis. Access to fresh- and salt-water food supply likely led to higher population density, semi-permanent habit and development of cultural complexity, but that comes long after evolutionary changes of upright posture, reduced hairiness, larger brains, etc. [[User:David notMD|David notMD]] ([[User talk:David notMD|talk]]) 23:04, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
:::Interesting. Thanks for the update.
:::My reading of the Savanna Theory page shows that there are a number of scientists that refute the the savanna theory. For example, notice the statement, on the savanna theory page, "In 1993, 4.4 million year old fossil teeth were found in Aramis, Ethiopia, by a group led by Tim D. White attributed to a new species, Australopithecus ramidus, later called Ardipithecus ramidus. The age was thus half a million years older than previously known A. afarensis and had a more monkey-like appearance. After extensive research, in 2009 in a series of eleven articles in Science, more was published about Ardi. It concluded that Ar. ramidus preferred more wooded areas instead of open grassland, '''which would not support the climate-driven savannah hypothesis'''. Troy Kelley [[User:Tdkelley1|Tdkelley1]] 23:14, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
:::You appear to have some understanding of the theory, unlike other editors. Troy Kelley [[User:Tdkelley1|Tdkelley1]] 23:22, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

== best places to find good references/citations ==

ive had this problem too many times with creating articles (im creating my second article and it got declined for not having "reliable references") so how do I find good places to find these? [[User:KC Alunan|KC Alunan]] ([[User talk:KC Alunan|talk]]) 22:56, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

:Hello, @[[User:KC Alunan|KC Alunan]], and welcome to the Teahouse. That question is exactly why creating articles is challenging. 
:There is no general answer, but looking through [[WP:RSP|RSP]] may help; and if there is an active [[WP:WikiProject|WikiProject]] that your subject relates to, you might find a list of fertile sources there; or else ask at the WikiProject's talk page [[User:ColinFine|ColinFine]] ([[User talk:ColinFine|talk]]) 23:15, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
:{{ping|KC Alunan}} Hello, and welcome to the Teahouse! I have several tools I like to use: there's a good search engine [https://cse.google.com/cse?cx=f4364aeb58c3d4902#gsc.tab=0 here] that only goes through the sources listed as [[WP:RS|reliable]] at [[WP:RSP]] (as {{noping|ColinFine}} helpfully linked above), which might help. I also like to go through [https://books.google.com Google Books] and type in a keyword. Not only can you look through books here, but you can also search through newspapers (by going to "any document" --> newspapers), which usually yields results that you wouldn't have found before. Also, check through related articles to see if there's any sources you can use from there. These methods are just a few of the very many you can use to find them. Just keep in mind that if there are no sources existing that work for Wikipedia's purposes, no amount of searching will procure them. Cheers and happy editing! <span style="border-radius:3em;padding:5px;background:#483D8B;">‍'''[[User:Relativity|<span style="color:white">Rela</span>]]'''[[User talk:Relativity|<span style="color:white">tivity ⚡️</span>]]</span> 23:24, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

== Deleted Draft ==

I had an article about a plant pathologist named Hari Sharan Karki, but it was taken down due to it not meeting notability standards. But, now when I am looking for it, I cannot find the draft. If someone could help, that would be amazing. Thank you. [[User:AstroGuy0|AstroGuy0]] ([[User talk:AstroGuy0|talk]]) 03:43, 18 February 2025 (UTC)

:{{ping|AstroGuy0}} That's because the draft was [[WP:MOVE|moved]] into mainspace and deleted after that move. —[[User:Jéské Couriano|<i style="color: #1E90FF;">Jéské Couriano</i>]] [[User talk:Jéské Couriano|<span style="color: #228B22">v^&lowbar;^v</span>]] <sup><small>[[User:Jéské Couriano/AG|threads]] [[User:Jéské Couriano/Decode|critiques]]</small></sup> 03:56, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
::Ah, thank you. I submitted a request to get it back.  [[User:AstroGuy0|AstroGuy0]] ([[User talk:AstroGuy0|talk]]) 04:00, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
:::@[[User:AstroGuy0|AstroGuy0]] Full history, including deletion discussion [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hari_Sharan_Karki&action=edit&redlink=1 is here]. You can find such deleted items by placing the title in the main Wikipedia search box and clicking on the redlink that comes up when the system tells you there is no item with that name. [[User:Michael D. Turnbull|Mike Turnbull]] ([[User talk:Michael D. Turnbull|talk]]) 12:57, 18 February 2025 (UTC)

== Notability, sources and neutral language ==

Hello everyone I am writing an article [[Draft:Cedric Koukjian]] However I had it declined due to subject not showing notability and lack of neutral language. users also went through the sources and asked that it reflects exactly what is written.

This is a lot to deal with for a newcomer, is there someone who could point out the exact problems so I can correct it. That is because in the rejections, they only point out general problems.

Thank you [[User:Aston3421|Aston3421]] ([[User talk:Aston3421|talk]]) 10:07, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
:For one example, how is the sentence "His works delve deeply into themes of unity, resilience, and the bonds that shape societies and individuals." verified by the two references? And on the other question, having artwork displayed publicly (his sculptures in various places) is probably not sufficient to establish notability. Reviewed solo shows in important museums would be more valuable. [[User:David notMD|David notMD]] ([[User talk:David notMD|talk]]) 13:56, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
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