Talk:Al-Qaeda

see [1]

Jermey is a surname! ;-)

Jon Jermey.

There seems to be an error in this article and apparently I cannot edit it. The error is in the first paragraph: "Al-Qaeda have attacked civilian and military targets in various countries, the most notable being the September 11 attacks in 2001". Shouldn't we take this out from a wikipedia page since we all know this is not true ? Nimeni12345 (talk) 15:45, 29 October 2008 (UTC) Nimeni12345Reply

Since we all know this is not true? That, at best, is an inaccurate statement. Those that are thought by the intelligence communities to have committed the attacks on 9/11 are thought to be associated with Al Qaeda. However, the idea that "Al Qaeda" is responsible for the attacks on 9/11 is, at the very least, disputed, and should not be described in the article as if this is an undisputed fact. It is not. However, if you are suggesting that the mention of 9/11 be removed completely or that conspiracy theory wording is added to the article, I disagree. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.168.97.187 (talk) 01:53, 27 October 2008 (UTC)Reply

Ok, so let's call it an inaccurate fact as you wish. Shouldn't wikipedia present an inaccurate fact as "it is believed to have happened like this" or "X and Y are accusing them of this" ? If wikipedia presents inaccurate facts as certainties in every article, it means you cannot trust wikipedia as a source of information. Is this the reality, wikipedia folks (or whoever is keeping this article from being edited) or are you willing to correct the mistake? Nimeni12345 (talk) 15:48, 29 October 2008 (UTC) Nimeni12345Reply

seeing that both bin Laden and al Zawahiri have admitted to planning these attacks (and to being satisfied with the result) it would be weasely to pretend that they did not do it. --Vindheim (talk) 20:33, 29 October 2008 (UTC)Reply

I agree. I, and millions of pther americans, watched him personally claim responsibility for the 9/11 attacks.Prussian725 (talk) 19:07, 2 November 2008 (UTC)Reply

Many people believe that that video was not Osama Bin Laden at all. Even if he had claimed to be responsible for the attacks, this in itself is not proof. Captain Prog (talk) 14:36, 27 December 2008 (UTC)Reply

The true is NOBODY can say unequivically that they know who attacked the US on 9-11-01. So posting a "fact" statement on what is supposed to be a well researched website when there is no coherent evidence that solidly decodes what happened that day in September is simply wrong. All avenues of thought on this matter should be considered, and allowed on public disclosure websites like this. Who is it that doesn't want the public to have the opportunity to make their own mind up about one of the most tragic events in American history? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Senlegaff09 (talk • contribs) 01:51, 5 February 2009 (UTC)Reply

I still don't see why this section starts with "There is at least one public reference to the name "al-Qaeda" that pre-dates the 2001 trial." There are numerous public references prior to 1998. Please see talk history page for citations. Perhaps you could say this was the first U.S. Government's public pronouncment. However, even that would be wrong. There is a state department report from 1996. (See: "US lists Saudi businessman as extremis sponsor." Carol Giacomo August 1996 Reuters News), at the very latest.

I guess we are going to ignore the Arab media were using the term since the early 90s. And Although it counts for nothing, I am SURE there were numerous other U.S. pronoucements that just didnt happen to find themselves in the newswires and thus Lexis Nexis archives. I don't understand what the whole focus on "public" is, since there are numerous after the fact references and discussions, documents, etcetera that traced the term Al-Qaeda since its founding. Although I guess an esteemed website like Wikipedia always has to leave open the possiblity of monolothic international conspiracies building up quite an after the fact profile to cover their tracks.

This idea though that there could be one or even close to one reference to al-qaeda before 2001 is just bizarre. Although I know it is necessary to get the Jamal al-Fadl "invented al qaida" idea as early as possible in the article.

Anyways, I don't thinks it proper to mislead readers that the first pronoucement came from Clintons executive order. If its a popular enough opinion that the name came from Jamal al-Fadl i suppose its necessary to include it, but it should come with the knowledge that this goes against all available evidence to support it. Chudogg (talk) 21:17, 17 November 2008 (UTC)Reply

Also, according to ex Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs Robin Cook [[2]], "Throughout the 80s he was armed by the CIA and funded by the Saudis to wage jihad against the Russian occupation of Afghanistan. Al-Qaida, literally "the database", was originally the computer file of the thousands of mujahideen who were recruited and trained with help from the CIA to defeat the Russians."^[1]. Unless he was lying, that is indeed the earliest known use. Sterango (talk) 02:08, 25 December 2008 (UTC)Reply

The editor of the article is alluding to the (easily disproved) theory that the name "Al Qaida" wasn't in use prior to Clinton's executive order. The problem associated with that is that is was used for years prior to Clinton's executive order. A simple Lexus Nexus shows that it was in use to at least 1994. It is therefore impossible for the "Al Fadl" introduced the name theory to be accurate. The entire section should be removed. Furthermore, the citation provided as absolutely nothing to do with "here is at least one public reference to the name "al-Qaeda" that pre-dates the 2001 trial".

This was already fixed before like a year ago it's a shame to see this frivolous deception keep coming about.

Chudogg (talk) 03:56, 5 February 2009 (UTC)Reply

The term 'al qaeda' can also be found in news articles pre-dating Bin Laden's birth, just as the word 'base' can in English texts. The issue is not when the term first appeared, but when it was first used as the name of an organisation. If you have evidence of it being used in official documents as the name of an organisation rather than as a common noun prior to the executive order, and you can adequately reference it, put it in the article.

Bergen's arguments (1) that Bin Laden formed an organisation at a meeting in 1988 and (2) that this organisation adopted "Al Qaeda" as its name at this meeting are based on documents recovered in Bosnia, which refer interchangably to a 'base' ('al qaeda') and a 'military base' ('al qaeda al askariya') with no suggestion that either term is being used as the name of an organisation rather than a particular base near the border of Afgahnistan and Pakistan. Bergen has simply made a mistake in my opinion and his argument also directly contradicts the testimony of Al Fadl, who testified that he was present at the founding meeting of the organisation in either 1989 or 1990, and who is not listed as present in the minutes of the 1988 meeting detailed in the Bosnian documents. --Distinguisher (talk) 11:25, 5 February 2009 (UTC)Reply

You need to learn to comprehend English. Al Qaida has been used in reference to Bin Laden's organization since at least 1994. Nobody is referencing to any other uses of Al-Qaida other than you.

As far as references, I'm really dissapointed I have to go through this again. This must be at least the third or fourth time in reference to this article. It's really dissapointing the discussion page keeps gettting erased as well. I don't know how many dittoheads will keep coming in here before it is resolved that this isn't a matter of opinion, but one of historical record.

Earlier, during the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, Usama Bin Ladin drew on his family's wealth plus donations received from sympathetic merchant families in the Gulf region to organize the Islamic Salvation Foundation, or al-Qaida. The group established recruitment centers in Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and Pakistan that enlisted and sheltered thousands of Arab recruits to fight the Soviets. United Press International August 14, 1996, U.S.: Saudi financed Islamic extremists BY JORGE A. BANALES

I left Egypt with enormous popular and official support which was only appreciated later with shock by the regime. All the procedures were legal when I left in the middle of 1985, went to Jeddah and from there to Pakistan where I worked as a doctor with the Mujahedin, Zawahri said. When he settled in Peshawar he established, with Bin Laden's financial help, Al-Qa'ida (the base) to host Arab volunteers. The first and most active group that went to Afghanistan was made up of Adli Youssef, Ali Abdel-Fattah and Mohamed El-Islambouli who moved on after his stopover in Jeddah. "They all went to Peshawar via Saudi Arabia and played a leading role in organising the Arab-Afghan groups," an Islamist defendant said. When Zawahri managed to convince Bin Laden to establish Al-Qa'ida, Jihad members from a variety of Arab states came to have a hostel of their own. AL AHRAM WEEKLY, "The Afghan connection" April 14, 1994:

In 1985, he went to Saudi Arabia where he worked in a hospital. It was during this period that he met Osama Bin Laden, who established Al-Qa'ida, a base for volunteers en route from Egypt to Afghanistan.

Also see the State Department Report "US lists Saudi businessman as extremist sponsor." Carol Giacomo August 1996 Reuters News. This is in the Summer of 2006, and mentions Bin Laden's organization by name. The Jamal al Fadl states he began talking to U.S. intelligence in December of 2006. Cleary, the term Al Qaida had been in use some years prior to al Fadl, and the U.S. government itself had been using the term before al-fadl. And WELL before the 2008 Clinton Executive order which is still mistakenly blazing on the front page of the article.

Happy now?137.99.238.53 (talk) 21:53, 5 February 2009 (UTC)Reply

Why no mention of links to the KLA and Chechnya??? 88.111.185.5 (talk) 16:57, 27 November 2008 (UTC)Reply

Because no one's mentioned them. Do so, if you wish--but only if it's accompanied with reliable citations. --Hiddekel (talk) 16:12, 2 December 2008 (UTC)Reply

There is obvious vandalism on this page that should be changed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.206.150.189 (talk • contribs)

not part of Al-Qaeda http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article3466833.ece

not al-qaeda http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2006/apr/09/july7.uksecurity

From the article 'terrorism Sunni Islamist' Yet elsewhere I read 'Wikipedia has a policy of not calling people or groups "terrorist".' I see yet again the policy broken!Bettybutt (talk) 05:06, 3 January 2009 (UTC)Reply

Please do not make a habit of spamming article talk pages. The label is applied here, as in 9/11, because that is how the organization is referred to in mainstream sources and by the United Nations. »S0CO^{(talk|contribs)} 06:08, 4 January 2009 (UTC)Reply

Since it's impossible to prove a negative, who will offer proof that this group even exists except outside the fantasy of conspiracy theorists? Where are the headed notepaper and the registered offices? There are none. This is a made-up group by western "intelligence" (and I use the word lightly) agencies in their quest to steal natural resources. Can anyone "SITE" anything credible that lends credibility to their existence (besides obviously phoney videos and audios)? This whole episode is an insult to the intelligence. See the 9/11 Omission Report for less details. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.101.109.156 (talk) 19:15, 9 January 2009 (UTC)Reply

I can't edit the article from this location. Would somebody please add the following to the beginning of the paragraph?

Following the Yemeni unification of May 1990, Wahhabi networks began moving missionaries into the country in an effort to subvert the capitalist north. Although it is unlikely bin Laden was directly involved, the personal connections he made would be established over the next decade and used to ...^[2]

203.24.110.83 (talk) 09:21, 19 January 2009 (UTC)Reply

 Template:Campaignbox al-Qaeda attacks has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you. --Aude (talk) 15:58, 5 February 2009 (UTC)Reply